Sorcerer without warlock dip

[Whit]

I was looking at V Human divine sorcerer
feat mage initiate warlock to get eldritch blast as the go to attack spell with quicken.
Am I losing out by not dipping into warlock to get eldritch blast and invocation agonizing blast warlock 2 levels? And if I did then changing the feat

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're going with a Warlock 2 dip, you may as well take Warlock 3 for 2nd level short-rest spell slots and the pact boon. Take either Pact of the Tome for Book of Ancient Secrets, or Pact of the Chain for a familiar that uses a help action every round from the safety of invisibility. You can pick Hexblade for medium armor and shield proficiency as well.

[heavyfuel]

The issue with dipping Warlock is that it's hard to only dip.

If you take a single level for Pact Magic and Patron, you might as well pick a 2nd level for invocations, but then you might as well pick a 3rd level for Pact Boon, but then you might as well get the 4th level ASI, and then the 5th level bonus invocation and lv 3 spell, so on so forth.

At which point do you stop being a Sorcerer with a Warlock dip and become a Sorlock multiclass?

Honestly, dipping a single warlock level is potentially game changing, and I don't think invocations are so good that they can't be passed.

However, if you're starting at low levels, think of the real world time it will take for you to get your spell progression back on track. Being a level behind can be awful for some builds. Especially Sorcerers who want to reach that level 7 as fast as possible for the 5th level slot from Sorcery Points.

[Nhorianscum]

I was looking at V Human divine sorcerer
feat mage initiate warlock to get eldritch blast as the go to attack spell with quicken.
Am I losing out by not dipping into warlock to get eldritch blast and invocation agonizing blast warlock 2 levels? And if I did then changing the feat

It's worth 1 level of lock by level 8.

2 levels of lock is super lategame.

[CTurbo]

Sorry I don't believe that a Warlock dip is mandatory for all Sorcerers. Pure Sorcerer, especially Divine Soul, is perfectly fine.

Does a 1-3 level Warlock dip offer some great benefits? Of course, but so does 1 or 2 levels of Bard, Paladin, Fighter, and even Life Cleric.

[Pex]

You don't need Eldritch Blast at all. Sorcerer gets its own damage cantrips which work just fine. Just for damage Fire Bolt is plenty. Most creatures you face will not be resistant or immune to fire. It doesn't matter how many such creatures exist in the Monster Manual. It only matters how many you face in the game you play. As a Divine Soul you'll have access to Sacred Flame and Toll The Dead for alternative damage types.

You don't need Eldritch Blast.

[Bloodcloud]

It is not worth magic initiate to get eldritch blast without agonizing blast.

As you advance in level, with more spell slots, access to higher at-will damage becomes less important, since you could instead be casting a big encounter ending spell most of the rounds.

Dragon sorcerer is only marginally behind the warlock on at-will damage before level 11 too.

[JonBeowulf]

You don't need Eldritch Blast at all. Sorcerer gets its own damage cantrips which work just fine. Just for damage Fire Bolt is plenty. Most creatures you face will not be resistant or immune to fire. It doesn't matter how many such creatures exist in the Monster Manual. It only matters how many you face in the game you play. As a Divine Soul you'll have access to Sacred Flame and Toll The Dead for alternative damage types.

You don't need Eldritch Blast.

Preach it, Pex! I immediately thought the same thing when I read the OP. Why delay sorcerer levels for a damage cantrip when you already have an assortment of damage cantrips? Eldritch Blast really shines when you build your warlock around it... not so much when you grab it 'cause you want it.

[Nhorianscum]

Preach it, Pex! I immediately thought the same thing when I read the OP. Why delay sorcerer levels for a damage cantrip when you already have an assortment of damage cantrips? Eldritch Blast really shines when you build your warlock around it... not so much when you grab it 'cause you want it.

To be fair hexblade dip is good for a nifty armor bump. An additional spell known, and curse. All things considered it's a buff.

EB is just... eh?

[Ogre Mage]

I was looking at V Human divine sorcerer
feat mage initiate warlock to get eldritch blast as the go to attack spell with quicken.
Am I losing out by not dipping into warlock to get eldritch blast and invocation agonizing blast warlock 2 levels? And if I did then changing the feat

If I were a sorcerer taking magic initiate I would take magic initiate (sorcerer). This is perfectly legal. Normally the bonus 1st level spell from magic initiate would be limited to only casting it once per long rest. But now you can use your regular slots to cast it as well.

And since sorcerers do not have armor proficiency I would recommend shield or mage armor. This frees up your regular spells known for non-defensive spells.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/84jgqg/5e_can_you_take_magic_initiate_in_your_own_class/

[BloodSnake'sCha]

If you don't take a warlock dip I see no reason to look for EB, firebolt is the same damage die and you may want to take a cantrip with raiders.

Just take another feat, the options are vast.


It's worth 1 level of lock by level 8.

2 levels of lock is super lategame.

I don't agree, the 2 levels of warlock are very important at low levels for the extra damage. I will say start with sorcerer, get two levels in warlock and go to sorcerer 3 in the early levels.
Or go to sorcerer 3 and then take warlock 2, depends of your party.

The slower progression in spellcasting don't hurt a lot because you got a great cantrip and a lot of low level spell slots to spam. Shield, absorb elements, hex and armour of Agathis is all you need to survive and be effective. All are first level spells.

[sithlordnergal]

I mean, its perfectly fine to go without Warlock, but I would at least go two levels of Hexblade. You just get too much to not snag it. Personally I'd start as a Sorcerer, one level of Warlock, four levels of Sorcerer, one level of Warlock. That way you're getting your Invocations by level 6, and you aren't really delaying anything else. After that, don't bother with any more Warlock, there's no real point to it. At that point you have Medium Armor, Martial Weapons, Hexblade's Curse, Charisma attack weapons, 6 first level spell slots, and essentially a Charisma Heavy Crossbow that you'll be able to fire up to four times with Quicken Spell.

[Neoh]

I generally take 2 levels of Warlock with Sorcerer, but that's just because I love playing gish characters (Hexblade proficiencies, Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke and Hex, plus you get Wrathful Smite, which is cool). I don't like to cheese more spell slots with short rest abuse so I don't need 3 levels or more of Warlock anyway.
You can be just fine with playing a pure Sorcerer, sure Eldritch Blast with its invocations is great, it's hard to find better in terms of DPR without investing into specific feats, but honestly, don't the other caster classes do just fine without it?
Plus as a Divine Soul Sorcerer, you could take Toll the Dead and Quicken it just like Eldritch Blast for 2 sorcery points or even Twin cast it for only 1 sorcery point, which you can't do with Eldritch Blast.

[kazaryu]

I was looking at V Human divine sorcerer
feat mage initiate warlock to get eldritch blast as the go to attack spell with quicken.
Am I losing out by not dipping into warlock to get eldritch blast and invocation agonizing blast warlock 2 levels? And if I did then changing the feat

honestly it all depends on...well everything.

first off you wanna talk to your DM. specifically about that first level spell. the magic initiate feat says 'In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again [b]using this feat.' bolding mine.

what this tells me is that RaW there's no reason that you *cant* cast that spell using your spell slots. you just get 1 'free' casting of hte spell per long rest. If you DO cast it using spell slots, however it would just work like if you'd multiclassed. the DC/spell attack modifier would be based on the class you pilfered it from (again, as written in the feat).

however, its not so obvious that that is the intent of the feat. So, you should bring it up to your DM, and see what they think.

the next consideration is...what else are you going to take?
depending on how your DM decides to run the first question should affect this. in general a feat isn't going to be worth just 1 cantrip. and EB is only a better cantrip than firebolt if
A) you're fighting an enemy resistant/immune to fire (not common) or
B) you have damage/effects that you can add to the EB.

the ony other potential reason to consider EB over firebolt is that EB will more consistently deal damage. but on average over the course of multiple castings its DPR is going to be identical to firebolt (lower actually if you go fire dragon sorc).

A, i wouldn't worry much about, and B is almost exclusively only applicable if you do a 2 level dip. the exception being Hex. fortunately you *Can* pick up hex using magic initiate, if thats what you want to go for. but that also somewhat defeats the purpose of using a cantrip..the fact that its at-will/no cost. but its still not a horrible idea.
a few options for other lvl 1 spells you can take instead from teh warlock spell list:
if the DM allows casting using regular spell slots
armor of agathys: not the greatest lvl 1 spell, but it scales *Really* well.
hellish rebuke: because why would you wanna reaction block damage when you can instead punish the puny being that tried to hurt you (could also get extra spicy with this as a dragon sorc.
protection from evil and good: more niche, probably wanna get a better idea of what the campaign is before you start worrying about this. but in a undead/outsider iflled campaign this spell can be huge, especially for being only lvl 1

if your DM only allows 1 casting per long rest. period.
expeditious retreat: not generally the best use of your concentration. but when its needed its super good. thus, a niche spell that you can cast 'for free' once per long rest.
comprehend languages: again, not likely to come up all the time...but its something you can't cast all the time anyway, perfect.
protection from evil and good: in less undead/outside filled campaigns. theme is, you're more free to take 'niche' spells for this if you're only gonna be able to cast 'em once/day anyway. the other spells could still be good even int his scenario (except probably armor of agathys...it doesn't scale well enough into higher levels unless you can upcast it.

another option you can ask your DM about. not RaW but also not really an uncommon houserule, is if you can spread among different classes. which would give you access to things like 'healing word' 'cure wounds' 'sanctuary' 'find familiar' 'bless' just to name a few.


now, more directly to your question: taking 2 levels of warlock means that at any given time you're gong to be 1 full spell level behind in progression, and have 2 fewer sorcerery points than you normally would at any given level. the tradeoff being that you have expanded at-will options, and 2 lvl 1 spell slots that come back on a SR. which can be w worthwhile tradeoff, but its not a neccesary one. after a lvl 5 full sorcerer can cast 3rd level spells like fire ball, and twin haste. whereas making this sacrifice, at 5th level you'll barely be getting your metamagic.

however: once you hit-20 charisma agonizing blast basically doubles the damage that EB deals. so if you're planning on having EB be your go to spell, rather than an option to keep you relevant when its not necessary to expend resources (which is how most full casters use cantrips...at least damage cantrips). then you're losing out on half your damage by not dipping sorcerer.