0 hit points, thorn whip, and spike groth

[HappyDaze]

If a bad guy uses thorn whip against a PC with 0 hit points and drags them across two squares of spike growth, does this instant-kill the PC? I ask because the damage from thorn whip becomes one failed death save, and I think each of the damage instances of spike growth would be additional failed death saves. Is this correct?

[OldTrees1]

Hmm, I am not sure. It might be one case of 4d4 damage from spike growth.

Spike Growth is one of the rare spells that deals damage on involuntary movement.

[Lupine]

Hesitantly, I say yes. The thorn whip, spike growth one, and spike growth two are all separate sources of damage.

[stoutstien]

Hmm. Yep I'd say dead. One of the reasons yo-yo healing isn't as good of an idea on play as it is in theory.

[RSP]

I’d imagine it’s 2d4 each time they move 5’, as opposed to adding all the dice together, but the wording is such that you could play it either way:

“When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels.”

Realistically, the creature moves 5’ at a time, not 30’ at once, so I’d play it that way.

Plus, the camouflage nature of the spikes adds to playing it this way, as anyone who doesn’t pass the Perception DC, won’t know which squares they can safely step on. If not doing each 5’ square you could end up with a situation like this:

Player: “I step into the room and move 30’ to the eastern door.”

DM: “Okay you take 8d4 piercing damage and use your Action to Dash.”

Player: “Why?”

DM: “As you take your first step into the room, you feel painful spikes puncture your feet. The sensation, and damage, continues for the first 20’ you’re in the room. The spikes are difficult terrain, hence needing to use your Action to Dash to cover the full 30’.”

Player: “Why didn’t you tell me this as soon as I stepped in the room?”

DM: “The damage doesn’t take effect until after all the 5’ squares of spikes are accounted for.”

Player: “So I didn’t take any damage until I left the spike area?!?”

DM: “Correct.”

[KorvinStarmast]

If a bad guy uses thorn whip against a PC with 0 hit points and drags them across two squares of spike growth, does this instant-kill the PC? I ask because the damage from thorn whip becomes one failed death save, and I think each of the damage instances of spike growth would be additional failed death saves. Is this correct? RAW, I think you can support that. (And it kinda makes sense; the 0 HP creature is nearly dead already, it then takes more damage and gets dragged across lethal spikes ... so narratively it also strikes me as fitting the scenario)

Player: “I step into the room and move 30’ to the eastern door.”

DM: “Okay you take 8d4 piercing damage and use your Action to Dash.”

Player: “Why?”

DM: “As you take your first step into the room, you feel painful spikes puncture your feet. The sensation, and damage, continues for the first 20’ you’re in the room. The spikes are difficult terrain, hence needing to use your Action to Dash to cover the full 30’.”

Player: “Why didn’t you tell me this as soon as I stepped in the room?”

DM: “The damage doesn’t take effect until after all the 5’ squares of spikes are accounted for.”

Player: “So I didn’t take any damage until I left the spike area?!?”

DM: “Correct.” Which doesn't quite fit the narrative as well, but I got a grin out of that. :smallsmile: We once took a nice chunk out of a T Rex who was chasing us when it ran through spike growth during its turn. It never perceived it, so each 5' did the damage. (ToA campaign).

[Reynaert]

I'd say no. Spike Growth deals '2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels' which I read as a formula for how much damage it deals, depending on the move distance.
The potential corpse travels 10 feet, it gets 4d4 piercing damage.

Compare to falling damage. Same wording. If you drop someone 30 feet, do they get 3 separate instances of 1d6 fal damage?

This same question also arises for concentration checks by the way.

[RSP]

I'd say no. Spike Growth deals '2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels' which I read as a formula for how much damage it deals, depending on the move distance.
The potential corpse travels 10 feet, it gets 4d4 piercing damage.

Compare to falling damage. Same wording. If you drop someone 30 feet, do they get 3 separate instances of 1d6 fal damage?

This same question also arises for concentration checks by the way.

Falling is quite different, as you don’t take damage from the distance traveled, but the stopping suddenly, and with force accumulated over that drop, on the ground.

For instance, there’s a 100’ drop next to a PC. The PC gets pushed over the edge and drops 30’ before casting Feather Fall. Though the PC fell 30’, they don’t take 3d6 of falling damage.

[Monster Manuel]

Honestly, I think the RAW could be interpreted either way; one instance of Xd4 damage, or X instances of 2d4 damage. This tactic will cause at least 2 death saves, one for the thorn whip and one for the spikes.

I would rule it on the fly, depending on the type of game you're running. Is it a hard-core, high-stakes, gritty kind of campaign? Then, yes, insta-kill. If it's a more narrative, heroic, forgiving campaign? I'd probably play it as a single death save per source of damage, and give the players a chance to pull it out of the jaws of defeat.

It's one of those edge cases where the ruling could go either way, so just do what works for your game.