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deljzc
2020-07-24, 01:09 PM
I am trying to finalize my pantheon/mythos regarding ancient histories and timelines of some of the major sentient beings in dungeons and dragons.

There are variety of disjointed sources that often talk about "major events" in the histories of races. These sometimes overlap with the histories of pantheons/deities as well.

I am looking for help in just remembering some. I can do all the legwork of googling them and/or refining the stories to fit my timeslines but if I am missing any, go ahead and tell me.

Examples I have already:

1. War/enslavement of the Gith by Mind Flayers (Illithids)
2. Separation of the Gith into the Githyanki and Githzerai
3. The Blood War (devils vs. demons)
4. The battle between Correlon and Gruumsh and/or the creation of elves and orcs
5. The war between dragons and giants

Any others you guys remember of major ancient historical events that shaped racial traits or records, I would appreciate.

I am curious to try and sequence them all and/or create an rough ancient history timeline for my campagin.

Thanks.

Yakmala
2020-07-24, 01:26 PM
Near the beginning, there’s the Days of Thunder and the wars between the creator races.

There’s also the Elven Crown Wars that eventually led to the Dark Elves being driven underground and becoming the Drow.

I always find the Human origins interesting. No god or pantheon claims to be responsible for their creation and nobody really can pin down where they came from.

prototype00
2020-07-24, 09:53 PM
6. Enslavement of the proto-Duergar to the Mindflayers
7. The "Ascension" of the Raven Queen and Shadar Kai (she's an elf in 5e)
8. The establishment of the Ordening of Giantkind
9. Asmodeus betrays his Creator (sometimes kills)
10. Dawn war between Bahamut and Tiamat unleashes many servitor races
11. Yondalla creates the halflings the last of all races after being dissatisfied with all the others.

JackPhoenix
2020-07-24, 10:03 PM
Well, there were three ancient dragons who created all the planes of existence. But one of them turned on its sibling and ripped it to pieces. The last one coiled around the murderer to subdue it, and became the world, while the murderer formed the underworld. From the blood shed in the conflict arose demons and all mortal creatures.

See, problem is that different campaign settings have different histories. The default generic setting present in the MM fluff is different from Forgotten Realms, and both are very different from Eberron, Ravnica and Theros (and presumably from whatever the Critical Role thing is called).

prototype00
2020-07-24, 11:10 PM
Well, there were three ancient dragons who created all the planes of existence. But one of them turned on its sibling and ripped it to pieces. The last one coiled around the murderer to subdue it, and became the world, while the murderer formed the underworld. From the blood shed in the conflict arose demons and all mortal creatures.

See, problem is that different campaign settings have different histories. The default generic setting present in the MM fluff is different from Forgotten Realms, and both are very different from Eberron, Ravnica and Theros (and presumably from whatever the Critical Role thing is called).

In the before-times (up to third edition at least) certain setting were linked by either Crystal Spheres you could travel between or the Great Wheel cosmology where you could transverse. These were (to my recollection):

- Dark Sun
- Forgotten Realms
- Mystara
- Krynn
- Greyhawk
- Spelljammer
- Planescape

Not to say that there was a monomyth for all those places (most certainly not) but like rocks in a river, there were certain touchstones-of-legend which would apply to most of them/some of them. The names and places might change, but the content was the same.

Note Eberron is NOT on that list and was indeed made to be a Stand-Out, Our Orcs are Different setting to shake the others out of the rut, so the OPs initial query was a fair question to ask (if you rule out Eberron, that is).

Zevox
2020-07-25, 01:13 AM
There’s also the Elven Crown Wars that eventually led to the Dark Elves being driven underground and becoming the Drow.
Worth noting is that the Crown Wars are a specifically Forgotten Realms historical event. The Drow splitting off from other Elves following a war is certainly a common part of official D&D settings, but the specifics will vary from setting to setting.

Millstone85
2020-07-25, 05:03 AM
With my full admission that it is an ugly pile-up of editions, settings and headcanons, here is a possible timeline:


Out of the primordial chaos, the World Serpent creates Sigil and the proto-planes, dividing themself into multiple entities along the way. Their two biggest fragments, called Ahriman and Jazirian, have a fight from which neither has fully recovered yet. The first couatls are born from Jazirian's blood. Ahriman is healing their wounds at the bottom of Baator, being a tenth hell all by themself, while Jazirian does the same in-between the fourth and fifth heavens of Mount Celestia.

While the proto-planes are still stabilizing, the War of Law and Chaos occurs. On the whole, Law is victorious. Notably, the obyriths of the Abyss go extinct, though they are eventually replaced by the tanar'ri.

The Material is in a pseudo-Precambrian age, dominated by the aboleths.

Io creates the first dragons. Io is then slain by Erek-Hus, who split them from head to tail. The two halves become Bahamut and Tiamat, and with them come the enmity between metallic and chromatic dragons.

The Material enters a pseudo-Cretaceous age, dominated by dragons.

Annam, Corellon, Gruumsh and Moradin each become the father of a racial pantheon. The creation of the first elves isn't deliberate, but the result of Corellon losing blood during a fight with Gruumsh. Corellon does, however, choose which of the first elves become gods.

Giants establish an empire on the Material, but a conflict with dragons puts an end to it.

A benevolent god, now only remembered as He Who Was, creates the first halflings and humans. He is betrayed and killed by his most trusted angel, Asmodeus, and the god's realm falls into Baator. Asmodeus makes a deal with Ahriman, becoming something of an avatar, and the ancient baatorians are soon replaced by the new baatezu.

The Blood War begins, opposing the baatezu to the tanar'ri.

Araushnee, the elven deity of destiny, convinces the elves to take more permanent forms and create empires in the Feywild. This does not please Corellon, and tensions rise.

An elven queen attempts to ascend to godhood to become a mediator between Araushnee and Corellon. The ritual fails spectacularly, and the queen becomes a vestige in the Shadowfell, where she is now known as the Raven Queen.

Araushnee makes an attempt on Corellon's life. She fails and is banished to the Abyss, where she becomes the demon Lolth. Corellon disowns all elves for following her, but especially the dark elves who stayed on her side until the end.

Worshippers of the World Serpent become the first major human empire. They then fall under the infuence of lesser and cruel aspects of the entity, such as Dendar and Merrshaulk, and engage into bloody rituals. They become the yuan-ti and make numerous enemies, leading to the fall of their empire.

A rift in time opens, from which emerge travellers from the future. These are the illithids, who soon enslave many races.

One of the aforementioned races rebels, becoming the gith, and illithids go into hiding.

JackPhoenix
2020-07-25, 06:09 AM
Note Eberron is NOT on that list and was indeed made to be a Stand-Out, Our Orcs are Different setting to shake the others out of the rut, so the OPs initial query was a fair question to ask (if you rule out Eberron, that is).

Eberron is not on that list because it didn't exist until 3.5, where Spelljammer/Planescape was no longer supported. Not that it stopped 4e from forcing its planar geography into Eberron, or MToF from trying to link Eberron's drow to Lolth, which is just stupid.

Speaking of the later, MToF has a plenty of lore on history of the 5e's default setting.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-07-25, 06:22 AM
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5803

This thread has a couple planar timelines courtesy of the man the myth the legend rip van wormer.

prototype00
2020-07-25, 06:37 AM
Eberron is not on that list because it didn't exist until 3.5, where Spelljammer/Planescape was no longer supported. Not that it stopped 4e from forcing its planar geography into Eberron, or MToF from trying to link Eberron's drow to Lolth, which is just stupid.

Speaking of the later, MToF has a plenty of lore on history of the 5e's default setting.

3.5 Planescape was still a setting that was supported, at least in Adventure Modules and whatnot, and if Planescape was still supported, the Great Wheel Still Existed, and beause the Great Wheel still existed, yada yada...

Spelljammer related stuff is still around in 5e, that line has had a longer than expected lifespan for something run by Giant Space Hamsters.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-07-25, 07:00 AM
3.5 Planescape was still a setting that was supported, at least in Adventure Modules and whatnot, and if Planescape was still supported, the Great Wheel Still Existed, and beause the Great Wheel still existed, yada yada...

Spelljammer related stuff is still around in 5e, that line has had a longer than expected lifespan for something run by Giant Space Hamsters.

When you consider how few sourcebooks they've published, it's kind of amazing that they've included giff.

danzibr
2020-07-25, 01:28 PM
With my full admission that it is an ugly pile-up of editions, settings and headcanons, here is a possible timeline:


Out of the primordial chaos, the World Serpent creates Sigil and the proto-planes, dividing themself into multiple entities along the way. Their two biggest fragments, called Ahriman and Jazirian, have a fight from which neither has fully recovered yet. The first couatls are born from Jazirian's blood. Ahriman is healing their wounds at the bottom of Baator, being a tenth hell all by themself, while Jazirian does the same in-between the fourth and fifth heavens of Mount Celestia.

While the proto-planes are still stabilizing, the War of Law and Chaos occurs. On the whole, Law is victorious. Notably, the obyriths of the Abyss go extinct, though they are eventually replaced by the tanar'ri.

The Material is in a pseudo-Precambrian age, dominated by the aboleths.

Io creates the first dragons. Io is then slain by Erek-Hus, who split them from head to tail. The two halves become Bahamut and Tiamat, and with them come the enmity between metallic and chromatic dragons.

The Material enters a pseudo-Cretaceous age, dominated by dragons.

Annam, Corellon, Gruumsh and Moradin each become the father of a racial pantheon. The creation of the first elves isn't deliberate, but the result of Corellon losing blood during a fight with Gruumsh. Corellon does, however, choose which of the first elves become gods.

Giants establish an empire on the Material, but a conflict with dragons puts an end to it.

A benevolent god, now only remembered as He Who Was, creates the first halflings and humans. He is betrayed and killed by his most trusted angel, Asmodeus, and the god's realm falls into Baator. Asmodeus makes a deal with Ahriman, becoming something of an avatar, and the ancient baatorians are soon replaced by the new baatezu.

The Blood War begins, opposing the baatezu to the tanar'ri.

Araushnee, the elven deity of destiny, convinces the elves to take more permanent forms and create empires in the Feywild. This does not please Corellon, and tensions rise.

An elven queen attempts to ascend to godhood to become a mediator between Araushnee and Corellon. The ritual fails spectacularly, and the queen becomes a vestige in the Shadowfell, where she is now known as the Raven Queen.

Araushnee makes an attempt on Corellon's life. She fails and is banished to the Abyss, where she becomes the demon Lolth. Corellon disowns all elves for following her, but especially the dark elves who stayed on her side until the end.

Worshippers of the World Serpent become the first major human empire. They then fall under the infuence of lesser and cruel aspects of the entity, such as Dendar and Merrshaulk, and engage into bloody rituals. They become the yuan-ti and make numerous enemies, leading to the fall of their empire.

A rift in time opens, from which emerge travellers from the future. These are the illithids, who soon enslave many races.

One of the aforementioned races rebels, becoming the gith, and illithids go into hiding.

This... this is beautiful...

Millstone85
2020-07-26, 05:32 AM
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5803

This thread has a couple planar timelines courtesy of the man the myth the legend rip van wormer.I knew I was in for a ride when the first sentence was "The leshays destroy the previous multiverse". This list is vertiginous.


This... this is beautiful...Why, thank you!

deljzc
2020-07-26, 03:11 PM
Thanks all. Many good ideas and references to help me fill in my particular Planar History (if that's what I want to call it).

The history of the dragons is great. I have to read more about that one for sure.

I might have to read up on Aeboleths as well as they sound very ancient.

It's been hard for me to sequence exactly when the Mind Flayers have their "peak" and how that corresponds to timelines of all the other races. Maybe when I'm done, I will share my mythos.

KorvinStarmast
2020-07-27, 04:19 PM
The default generic setting present in the MM fluff is different from Forgotten Realms, and both are very different from Eberron, Ravnica and Theros (and presumably from whatever the Critical Role thing is called). It's called Pathfinder. :smallyuk: As for the rest, what on Oerth are you talking about? :smallbiggrin:

Wizard_Lizard
2020-07-27, 07:32 PM
yeah see if we were to establish a specific setting then this would be easier.
Eberron lore is mainly my speciality, although i watch a fair few bits of lore on the realms.
I think this thread would work best for the forgotten realms events, because that's the most "dnd high magic" setting I think.
Granted, greyhawk appears to have a fair few ties to the realms, with Fraz'urb'luu, etc.

Tanarii
2020-07-27, 09:16 PM
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5803

This thread has a couple planar timelines courtesy of the man the myth the legend rip van wormer.
There's a few from non-interacting planar structures there. The Known World / Mystara's Multiverse doesn't interact with the Cosmic Wheel. Although clearly there are Echoes if some kind, as similar beings existing in each with the same names, or at least variations from another language. :smallamused:

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-07-28, 12:47 AM
There's a few from non-interacting planar structures there. The Known World / Mystara's Multiverse doesn't interact with the Cosmic Wheel. Although clearly there are Echoes if some kind, as similar beings existing in each with the same names, or at least variations from another language. :smallamused:

It doesn't require much work (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=18130699&postcount=23)to get Mystara to fit into the Great Wheel, and there're a few things that have crossed over. It's in the bottom-right corner of this map here (http://nerik.orpheusweb.co.uk/files/Spelljammer/Flow_map_01-12-12.pdf) in its own cluster, though it's in an erratic sphere and getting there requires dealing with several dangerous obstacles. While that map is fan-made, it's about as close to modern canon as one can get.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-07-28, 12:52 AM
Thanks all. Many good ideas and references to help me fill in my particular Planar History (if that's what I want to call it).

The history of the dragons is great. I have to read more about that one for sure.

I might have to read up on Aeboleths as well as they sound very ancient.

It's been hard for me to sequence exactly when the Mind Flayers have their "peak" and how that corresponds to timelines of all the other races. Maybe when I'm done, I will share my mythos.

Aboleths are very ancient. They're the first mortals native to this multiverse, and predate many of the gods and planar powers. The mind flayer peak is for you to decide, I think; we know they come back in time in force and power, fleeing some catastrophe. One potential option is that they reach the heights of their power, decay over time, and catapult themselves back in time as a last roll of the dice. Another is that they are at the height of their power when they come back in time - that's the one I like. You could even say that, actually, they're strongest after they arrive in the past and spread through space across the Material Plane, then collapse, go extinct and evolve again in the far future.

KorvinStarmast
2020-07-28, 07:59 AM
Aboleths are very ancient. They're the first mortals native to this multiverse, and predate many of the gods and planar powers. Yeah, I have the idea that D&D borrowed very heavily from Lovecraft in how the aboleth was built. I think it was first in the Dragon Magazine, but I can't find what issue. Here it is from the MM 2 (1983). I've been reading a few of Lovecrafts novellas lately, and this right here is a pretty blatant reference/tribute/adaptation. (IIRC, Rob Kuntz was big on the horror/otherworldly monster kind of dungeon).

The aboleth is an amphibious creature that dwells in underground lakes and caverns. Intelligent, it hates most land-going life and seeks methods to enslave or destroy the beings of the surface world. The race is extremely long-lived and has collected a great deal of knowledge more ancient than man. It is perhaps better that men do not know these ancient secrets,fortheseare rumored to bemore horribleandfoul than could be thought possible.
An aboleth has a slime covered fish-like bodywith a large fluke-like tail which propels it through the water.
It is a blue-green mottled gray in color with a pinkish tan belly. It has blue-black slime-producing organs on either side. Set in its head are 3 long, slit-like, purple-red eyes, one above the other. Over the eyes are protective ridges. Four 10-foot long tentaclesgrowfrom the top if its head, and its toothless mouth is located on the underside. On land, an aboleth pulls its obscene mass about with its 4 tentacles. More recent versions of the aboleth are even more Lovecraftian (I like how 5e handled this monster ...)

Tanarii
2020-07-28, 08:39 AM
It doesn't require much work (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=18130699&postcount=23)to get Mystara to fit into the Great Wheel, and there're a few things that have crossed over. It's in the bottom-right corner of this map here (http://nerik.orpheusweb.co.uk/files/Spelljammer/Flow_map_01-12-12.pdf) in its own cluster, though it's in an erratic sphere and getting there requires dealing with several dangerous obstacles. While that map is fan-made, it's about as close to modern canon as one can get.
It does. The multiverses structure is entirely different. The layout of the astral/ethereal plane, inner planes, and especially outer planes is entirely unrelated to the Great Wheel. Not to mention it's explicitly multidimensional structure.

Also BECMI dragons were destruction machines, unlike AD&D dragons. :smallwink:

Of course, all that was changed when they abandoned support for BECMI and ported the BECMI Known World setting to the AD&D 2e Mystara setting, ripping it from its own cosmology and inserting into their "one cosmology for all settings" concept. And later spelljammer. A move which effectively killed the setting. But also which means many folks don't understand how irreconcilable it was.

Millstone85
2020-07-28, 09:32 AM
An aboleth has a slime-covered fish-like body with a large fluke-like tail which propels it through the water.I can't remember the source, but a tidbit of FR lore that I really like is the aboleths' rationale for indulging Ghaunadaur. They believe that the deity / great old one holds influence over the very slime that coats their bodies.


It does. The multiverses structure is entirely different. The layout of the astral/ethereal plane, inner planes, and especially outer planes is entirely unrelated to the Great Wheel. Not to mention it's explicitly multidimensional structure.I am not familiar with Mystara's cosmology, but saying that it involves transitive, inner and outer planes makes it sound very compatible with the Great Wheel.

deljzc
2020-07-28, 09:49 AM
To be specific, I am a Greyhawk person myself and I'm working to rebuild its history a bit to make it simpler and up-to-date with some 5th edition frameworks.

I'm also still a fan of more low-magic and gritty realism (maybe 4-5 on a scales of 1-10).

And I go all the way back to 1st edition and skipped all the middle stuff (2nd through 4th) so my references need a bit of updating.

I was trying to investigate relationships between Kobolds, Dragonborn and Dragons as well (because way back in my day there was not relationship between these things). Found this interesting idea on youtube


https://youtu.be/RbT37oUV0E0

Millstone85
2020-07-28, 11:13 AM
I was trying to investigate relationships between Kobolds, Dragonborn and Dragons as well (because way back in my day there was not relationship between these things). Found this interesting idea on youtubeTLDW, dragons hatch not as wyrmlings but as kobolds, with dragonborn and half-dragons being other intermediary forms. Also, they have ant-like societies built around a mother dragon.

For the setting I am working on, I am using an even more ant-like approach. Dragons lay eggs from which emerge kobold workers, dragonborn soldiers, and the occasional wyrmling which alone can mature into a reproductive dragon.

Tanarii
2020-07-28, 01:46 PM
I am not familiar with Mystara's cosmology, but saying that it involves transitive, inner and outer planes makes it sound very compatible with the Great Wheel.
Not particularly. They roughly exost'but the connections and properties are considerably different.

On the other hand it looks like a lot of the stuff kind of got portrd over and intergrated during the 2e conversion. For example, I was unaware draeden were now in the great wheel cosmology independently.

KorvinStarmast
2020-07-28, 01:58 PM
To be specific, I am a Greyhawk person myself and I'm working to rebuild its history a bit to make it simpler and up-to-date with some 5th edition frameworks. Heh, I still have the World of Greyhawk in a box from the year it came out. :smallcool: The maps were used in a variety of campaigns.

As to Kobolds, that was dragons mating with gnomes. :smallyuk:

deljzc
2020-07-28, 04:03 PM
TLDW, dragons hatch not as wyrmlings but as kobolds, with dragonborn and half-dragons being other intermediary forms. Also, they have ant-like societies built around a mother dragon.

For the setting I am working on, I am using an even more ant-like approach. Dragons lay eggs from which emerge kobold workers, dragonborn soldiers, and the occasional wyrmling which alone can mature into a reproductive dragon.

Yeah, I'm still wrapping my head around some ideas on this.

I'm not sure I like the Dragon eggs = kobolds. That's a LOT of eggs. I mean, Alien Queen type monster laying eggs ALL DAY.

I have been throwing around ideas that dragons came first a LONG time ago. For a while they were the alpha creature on the planet. But dragons were not born, they were almost celestial creations or children of a God-Dragon. Once the God Dragon became Tiamat and Bahamut, no more new dragons. Any dragon death was a permanent loss to the population. The war with Giants further lowered their numbers. Then I might have some sort of mass extinction event where surface dwellers were driven underground for a while and a LOT of dragons were lost.

After this event, both Bahamut and Tiamat explored ways to increase their numbers again, seeing the potential extinction of the species.

And that's where I'm at.... Kobolds might be an answer for the evil, chromatic dragons. Something spawned by Tiamat. They lay millions of eggs and very rarely (like 1 in 100,000) hatches into a chromatic dragon. It is such a rare event Kobolds keep it incredibly secret. This reproduction might not even be know except to a few Kobolds or Dragonborn. Even the birth of a dragon has to be kept secret from existing Dragon the Kobolds may be serving.

In fact, almost all of Kobold function is to wait for a dragon to potentially hatch, protect it, and find a place for it to grow away from OTHER dragons and civilization. Kobolds are just a hive who's soul purpose is waiting for dragons. They know good spots, they know where dragons are, they keep lairs and secret locations protected - all for the rare chance a dragon is born.

Now whether I want this to be Metallic Dragons back story from Bahamut, who knows. Maybe he chose a more traditional path of procreation. Maybe metallic dragons actually have to mate, in-species/in-color. With a dragon egg.


Of course then Dragonborn could only be colored dragons in my world as they are just off-shoots of Kobolds and the spawn of Tiamat somehow. Certainly possible.

Evaar
2020-07-28, 04:42 PM
With my full admission that it is an ugly pile-up of editions, settings and headcanons, here is a possible timeline:


Out of the primordial chaos, the World Serpent creates Sigil and the proto-planes, dividing themself into multiple entities along the way. Their two biggest fragments, called Ahriman and Jazirian, have a fight from which neither has fully recovered yet. The first couatls are born from Jazirian's blood. Ahriman is healing their wounds at the bottom of Baator, being a tenth hell all by themself, while Jazirian does the same in-between the fourth and fifth heavens of Mount Celestia.

While the proto-planes are still stabilizing, the War of Law and Chaos occurs. On the whole, Law is victorious. Notably, the obyriths of the Abyss go extinct, though they are eventually replaced by the tanar'ri.

The Material is in a pseudo-Precambrian age, dominated by the aboleths.

Io creates the first dragons. Io is then slain by Erek-Hus, who split them from head to tail. The two halves become Bahamut and Tiamat, and with them come the enmity between metallic and chromatic dragons.

The Material enters a pseudo-Cretaceous age, dominated by dragons.

Annam, Corellon, Gruumsh and Moradin each become the father of a racial pantheon. The creation of the first elves isn't deliberate, but the result of Corellon losing blood during a fight with Gruumsh. Corellon does, however, choose which of the first elves become gods.

Giants establish an empire on the Material, but a conflict with dragons puts an end to it.

A benevolent god, now only remembered as He Who Was, creates the first halflings and humans. He is betrayed and killed by his most trusted angel, Asmodeus, and the god's realm falls into Baator. Asmodeus makes a deal with Ahriman, becoming something of an avatar, and the ancient baatorians are soon replaced by the new baatezu.

The Blood War begins, opposing the baatezu to the tanar'ri.

Araushnee, the elven deity of destiny, convinces the elves to take more permanent forms and create empires in the Feywild. This does not please Corellon, and tensions rise.

An elven queen attempts to ascend to godhood to become a mediator between Araushnee and Corellon. The ritual fails spectacularly, and the queen becomes a vestige in the Shadowfell, where she is now known as the Raven Queen.

Araushnee makes an attempt on Corellon's life. She fails and is banished to the Abyss, where she becomes the demon Lolth. Corellon disowns all elves for following her, but especially the dark elves who stayed on her side until the end.

Worshippers of the World Serpent become the first major human empire. They then fall under the infuence of lesser and cruel aspects of the entity, such as Dendar and Merrshaulk, and engage into bloody rituals. They become the yuan-ti and make numerous enemies, leading to the fall of their empire.

A rift in time opens, from which emerge travellers from the future. These are the illithids, who soon enslave many races.

One of the aforementioned races rebels, becoming the gith, and illithids go into hiding.


This is all great and pretty setting neutral. You could apply this to any of the main D&D worlds (except Eberron which is, of course, different).

I'll add a couple of points:
* Between point 1 and point 2, a mad god (usually Tharizdun) discovers a shard of pure evil. Upon seizing it for its power, his mind was opened to the influence of the obyriths trapped in their own dying reality. They convince Tharizdun to implant the seed in this new reality, forming the Abyss and enabling their escape to our multiverse. The other gods unite to punish and imprison Tharizdun.
* The obyriths create the tanar'ri as a weapon, but cannot keep them under control. Obyriths are not extinct, but scarce few remain. Dagon, Pazuzu, and Pale Night are the most notorious who are seemingly still active.

Millstone85
2020-07-29, 12:12 PM
I'm not sure I like the Dragon eggs = kobolds. That's a LOT of eggs. I mean, Alien Queen type monster laying eggs ALL DAY.Well, dragons are already known for sleeping on their hoards during tremendous periods of time. The egglaying could happen then, with kobolds spacing the eggs for optimal exposition to the magic of precious metals and gems.


Between point 1 and point 2, a mad god (usually Tharizdun) discovers a shard of pure evil. Upon seizing it for its power, his mind was opened to the influence of the obyriths trapped in their own dying reality. They convince Tharizdun to implant the seed in this new reality, forming the Abyss and enabling their escape to our multiverse. The other gods unite to punish and imprison Tharizdun.This is part of the same 4e Nentir Vale story from which I took He Who Was:

Tharizdun discovers a shard of pure evil (This is likely linked to the story of Ioun, Pelor, and a third unnamed god, being the first to become aware of the Far Realm)
Tharizdun hears the obyriths in their dying universe, who demand that the shard be planted in the Astral Sea.
Tharizdun instead plants the shard in the Elemental Chaos, and there the Abyss forms (Are we to understand this as the point of temporal divergence between the World Axis and the Great Wheel?)
The other gods imprison Tharizdun, who becomes known as the Chained God.
The angel Asmodeus journeys to the depths of the Abyss and obtains a morsel of the shard, which he uses to kill his god He Who Was (Hmm, another unnamed god? Could it be? Nah)
The astral dominion of He Who Was is twisted by these events. Once a paradise, it becomes the Hells.
The demons of the Abyss seek to reclaim the morsel stolen by Asmodeus, or are otherwise drawn to it, and the Blood War begins.

Tanarii
2020-07-29, 09:05 PM
All this talk on Kobolds is making me try to remember, what edition did the lore on kobolds turn them into little dragon helpers?

deljzc
2020-07-30, 01:09 PM
All this talk on Kobolds is making me try to remember, what edition did the lore on kobolds turn them into little dragon helpers?

It was 3rd edition. You can read wikipedia on Kobolds here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

It's interesting that Kobolds are considered cold-blooded but Dragonborn and Dragons are warm-blooded. I might have to change that in my campaign.