Support for sorcerer combinations

[Konradhelt]

So, I'm a player in a good group, but we have very inexperienced storm sorcerer player. I have tried to help him, but at the same time let him make his own decisions. We are fourth level and have just reached fifth and he is sadly slowing the game down a bit.

I wanna help him by preparing a list of good things to do each round, and for that I would really appreciate your help.

We are playing tomb of annihilation and he is a storm sorcerer 16 DEX 14 CON 18 CHA with quicken and twin with the following spells:
Cantrips - ray of frost, fire bolt, thunder
1st - mage armor, shield, chromatic orb.
2nd - hold person, mirror image

So two things:
1) what should he select for 3rd level spell and which spell to swap?

2) What is good combinations of metamagic and spells to use in 1st and 2nd round of deadly+ encounters and for smaller attrition encounters?
An example could be: in big figths start with quicken mirror and twin firebolt 2nd round twin hold bonus action fly away

Thank you for any help you have time to give!

[Man_Over_Game]

very inexperienced storm sorcerer player
[...]
We are playing tomb of annihilation

Hol' up. What?

[AttilatheYeon]

So, I'm a player in a good group, but we have very inexperienced storm sorcerer player. I have tried to help him, but at the same time let him make his own decisions. We are fourth level and have just reached fifth and he is sadly slowing the game down a bit.

I wanna help him by preparing a list of good things to do each round, and for that I would really appreciate your help.

We are playing tomb of annihilation and he is a storm sorcerer 16 DEX 14 CON 18 CHA with quicken and twin with the following spells:
Cantrips - ray of frost, fire bolt, thunder
1st - mage armor, shield, chromatic orb.
2nd - hold person, mirror image

So two things:
1) what should he select for 3rd level spell and which spell to swap?

2) What is good combinations of metamagic and spells to use in 1st and 2nd round of deadly+ encounters and for smaller attrition encounters?
An example could be: in big figths start with quicken mirror and twin firebolt 2nd round twin hold bonus action fly away

Thank you for any help you have time to give!

What race is he? What's his 2 other cantrips? What does he usually like doing in combat?

[Ghost Nappa]

So, I'm a player in a good group, but we have very inexperienced storm sorcerer player. I have tried to help him, but at the same time let him make his own decisions. We are fourth level and have just reached fifth and he is sadly slowing the game down a bit.

I wanna help him by preparing a list of good things to do each round, and for that I would really appreciate your help.

We are playing tomb of annihilation and he is a storm sorcerer 16 DEX 14 CON 18 CHA with quicken and twin with the following spells:
Cantrips - ray of frost, fire bolt, thunder
1st - mage armor, shield, chromatic orb.
2nd - hold person, mirror image

So two things:
1) what should he select for 3rd level spell and which spell to swap?

2) What is good combinations of metamagic and spells to use in 1st and 2nd round of deadly+ encounters and for smaller attrition encounters?
An example could be: in big figths start with quicken mirror and twin firebolt 2nd round twin hold bonus action fly away

Thank you for any help you have time to give!


At the start of the day: Mage Armor
Just Before an Ambush: Mirror Image
I'm Getting Attacked: Shield
I Want to Help My Teammates: Hold Person
I Want to Hurt Things Myself: Ray of Frost, Firebolt, Chromatic Orb, Thunder Cantrip?

Good spells for him include anything that does thunder/lightning damage (works with the theme), Counterspell (stop enemy bad guy), Haste (help Teammates), Dispel Magic (remove bad stuff), and Fly (haha you can't get me).

He only has 5 sorcery points so Twin is very expensive. I would only suggest it for things like Haste, Fly, Hold Person when it can win an encounter by itself. You are trying to essentially end a fight now so that everyone else in the team keeps their resources for later.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

He honestly has too much defense, half his spells are defensive (Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image). I would swap out Mirror Image for Blindness/Deafness, both that an Hold Person can be upcast to hit more targets. This also gives him a Wis and a Con save-or-lose spell. Twin Spell is honestly a bit redundant as it's only really good for Chromatic Orb or a damage cantrip. See if he can swap it out for Heighten, which is amazing with save-or-lose spells.

For his 3rd level spell, it really depends on what he wants to use it for. If damage is the answer, Fireball is the go-to choice, or Melf's Minute Meteors is more damage per spell slot but spread out over time. If he wants control, Sleet Storm is a Dex save, the other strong choices are Slow (Wis) and Stinking Cloud (Con). Enemies Abound (Int save) is also good for turning a strong enemy against the rest of the opponents, just don't get close to them. If he wants to protect the party, Counterspell or Dispel Magic is the way to go.

[MaxWilson]

So, I'm a player in a good group, but we have very inexperienced storm sorcerer player. I have tried to help him, but at the same time let him make his own decisions. We are fourth level and have just reached fifth and he is sadly slowing the game down a bit.

I wanna help him by preparing a list of good things to do each round, and for that I would really appreciate your help.

We are playing tomb of annihilation and he is a storm sorcerer 16 DEX 14 CON 18 CHA with quicken and twin with the following spells:
Cantrips - ray of frost, fire bolt, thunder
1st - mage armor, shield, chromatic orb.
2nd - hold person, mirror image

So two things:
1) what should he select for 3rd level spell and which spell to swap?

2) What is good combinations of metamagic and spells to use in 1st and 2nd round of deadly+ encounters and for smaller attrition encounters?
An example could be: in big figths start with quicken mirror and twin firebolt 2nd round twin hold bonus action fly away

Thank you for any help you have time to give!

The best combinations involve cooperation between multiple PCs, e.g. "I Enlarge Bob, who grapple/prones the giant, then Sam and Frodo shoot it to death at advantage because Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter."

Who else is in the party that is willing and potentially able to participate in a combination?

Based on what little I know I'd say Fear is probably a good spell for him (and he can disengage 10' right after casting it, and then move another 30', so the short range is less risky for him than for some). Web is also cool, especially if there are archers in the party. But more info would help make decisions about Haste, Fly, metamagics, etc.

[Kireban]

lightning bolt and invisibility. throw away mirror image since it is a waste of an action.
tough enemies and can catch more than 2 with lightning bolt? use it.
not trivial fight? twinned chromatic orb.
don't use hold person unless the fight is tough.
don't use any twinned cantrips. you have only few sorcery points.
don't use quicken spell unless you need to disengage/dash/dodge with your action.

[Nhorianscum]

So, I'm a player in a good group, but we have very inexperienced storm sorcerer player. I have tried to help him, but at the same time let him make his own decisions. We are fourth level and have just reached fifth and he is sadly slowing the game down a bit.

I wanna help him by preparing a list of good things to do each round, and for that I would really appreciate your help.

We are playing tomb of annihilation and he is a storm sorcerer 16 DEX 14 CON 18 CHA with quicken and twin with the following spells:
Cantrips - ray of frost, fire bolt, thunder
1st - mage armor, shield, chromatic orb.
2nd - hold person, mirror image

So two things:
1) what should he select for 3rd level spell and which spell to swap?

2) What is good combinations of metamagic and spells to use in 1st and 2nd round of deadly+ encounters and for smaller attrition encounters?
An example could be: in big figths start with quicken mirror and twin firebolt 2nd round twin hold bonus action fly away

Thank you for any help you have time to give!


There's really no cure for tier1 sorc as is, I'm a huge advocate of the class and love playing it myself but... yeah at 1-4 it's almost unplayable. This isn't even pilot error tbh.

He'll hit 5 soon enough. Then the class just hard spikes in power every single level of tier 2.

The problem is... self correcting.

[J-H]

My houserule is that sorcs get an extra spell known at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 reflecting their subclass.

[LadyKyrith]

1) As others have said, the 3rd level spell really depends on what he wants to do with it. Fireball or lightning bolt for damage, Hypnotic Pattern (Wis) or Slow (Wis) for control, Haste (especially with twinned spell) for buffing party members, are all strong options imo. Counterspell is good to have on any caster eventually, but that also depends on party composition. Personally I would drop Mirror Image and replace it with either a 3rd level spell, Web, or even Suggestion.

2) Depends on party composition but for super hard encounters I'd say Twinned Haste, or Hypnotic Pattern/Slow without metamagics on the 1st round, then rely on chromatic orb or other blast spells. If it's a "dump all your resources" kind of fight then he can go ahead and use quicken to allow him to mix in the odd firebolt or dodge action into the mix. Mage armor gets cast at the start of each day (personally I'm not a fan of this tax but to each their own). I'll second the idea that he should not be twinning cantrips, heck I'm not really a fan of twinned chromatic orb either tbh.

Tier 1 sorcerer can be pretty rough but Sleep, Web, Levitate, Suggestion, and Hold Person are good enough to hold you til level 5 in my experience. Blasting cantrips are kinda bad at this tier from a purely mathematical perspective though, a light crossbow is probably better.

[Konradhelt]

Thank you for all the great suggestions so far!

We have a game night tomorrow and I'll get back to you afterwards with spell selections and with a list of good actions to take to quicken up the game.

Again I really appreciate the support!