Doctor Despair
2020-07-27, 06:16 PM
In a campaign I'm taking part in, the DM has heavily hinted one of our party should take leadership (primarily for the followers for plot-reasons rather than the cohort), but that does mean I, as the charisma-based character, now have access to a cohort. I'd been interested in learning more about the Master of Many Forms, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to do so. However, I am a little confused about how a few aspects of the build need to work.
I was greenlit for an already bought-off LA+1, but I was struggling to find a clear line in Wild Shape or in Alternate Form's text that explicitly says whether you keep the extraordinary qualities/racial traits of your original form. I know you keep the type and subtype of your original form, but what of the racial extraordinate qualities? I ultimately decided that since it doesn't say you lose them, you must keep them, as alternate form only changes the creature int he ways it describes.
With that said, I was debating over taking a plant-based race at LA+2 (sort of trashing the free LA, sadly), but I decided that a Feytouched Warforged would be the best bang for my buck for the free LA+1, granting, at the very least, an immunity to mind-affecting effects, some skill bonuses, low-light vision, and Charm Person. I am a little confused on how the Feytouched template actually works though. The Fiend Folio has a sample Feytouched character with various ability scores, but then the Savage Progression article here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) adds that it changes the Feytouched creature to the Fey type, grants +2 to Dex, -2 to Con, and +2 to Cha, and changes the charm person to once/day. Are those qualities unique to using the savage progression, or is it an official errata? Does that mean that you have to take a "level" of Feytouched to get the immunity to mind-affecting, and that the LA isn't even an option? Additionally, would changing a Warforged's type to Fey change their subtype from living construct, and all the benefits thereof, or would they become a Fey with the Living Construct subtype?
With my questions and misgivings about the Feytouched template set aside for the moment, I was also confused at how various Ranger variants interact with one another.
In order to be eligible for MoMF, we need to take the Ranger Variant Class:
Ranger
A ranger might forgo training in weapon combat in exchange for the ability to take animal form and move swiftly through the woodlands.
Gain
Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).
Lose
Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery.
Now, this is phrased like ACFs are phrased, but it is explicitly called a variant class. Now, I see a lot of people taking it with Mystic Ranger, another variant class, and seem to almost treat it like an ACF. However, the text seems very clear that variant classes are distinct from one another:
Multiclassing And Variant Classes
Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).
So while ACFs seem to explicitly work with variant classes, it seems that with multiple variant classes, you are expected to multiclass, even when taking variants of the same class. As far as I understand, that means that in order to have both the Wildshape Variant Ranger and the Mystic Ranger, one would need to take 5 levels of Wildshape Ranger and then proceed to take levels of Mystic Ranger, none of which would stack with one another for the purposes of abilities. These builds, however, seem to be gestalting them -- and I see the attraction to doing so, as the Mystic Ranger still has the class features the Wildshape Ranger would normally trade out to gain fast movement and wildshape. I suppose a major question I wanted to ask was: is there a RAW answer to this I'm misreading or overlooking? Can you combine these two variant classes into one neat, compact 5-level package before going into MoMF?
With that said aside, there are also a lot of ACFs that interest me greatly with regard to rangers. Is there any reason I couldn't legally combine all these ACFs into one build under the Wildshape Ranger Chassis?
Rival Organization (trade favored enemy for favored enemy organization)
Spiritual Connection (trade wild empathy for speak w/ plants and animals 3/day)
Urban Companion (level 4) (trade animal companion for a familiar)
Champion of the Wild (trade spellcasting for bonus feat)
So the final build would look like:
Full BAB, good fort/ref saves, immunity to mind-affecting, some construct immunities
Variant Ranger 1: Track, Favored Enemy Organization, Speak w/ Plants and Animals 3/day
Variant Ranger 2:
Variant Ranger 3: Endurance
Variant Ranger 4: Familiar (gain Alertness), Bonus Fighter Feat
Variant Ranger 5: Wildshape, Improved Favored Enemy Organization
Master of Many Forms 1: Shifter's Speech, Improved Wild Shape (Humanoid)
Thank you so much for any information and clarity you can provide!
I was greenlit for an already bought-off LA+1, but I was struggling to find a clear line in Wild Shape or in Alternate Form's text that explicitly says whether you keep the extraordinary qualities/racial traits of your original form. I know you keep the type and subtype of your original form, but what of the racial extraordinate qualities? I ultimately decided that since it doesn't say you lose them, you must keep them, as alternate form only changes the creature int he ways it describes.
With that said, I was debating over taking a plant-based race at LA+2 (sort of trashing the free LA, sadly), but I decided that a Feytouched Warforged would be the best bang for my buck for the free LA+1, granting, at the very least, an immunity to mind-affecting effects, some skill bonuses, low-light vision, and Charm Person. I am a little confused on how the Feytouched template actually works though. The Fiend Folio has a sample Feytouched character with various ability scores, but then the Savage Progression article here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) adds that it changes the Feytouched creature to the Fey type, grants +2 to Dex, -2 to Con, and +2 to Cha, and changes the charm person to once/day. Are those qualities unique to using the savage progression, or is it an official errata? Does that mean that you have to take a "level" of Feytouched to get the immunity to mind-affecting, and that the LA isn't even an option? Additionally, would changing a Warforged's type to Fey change their subtype from living construct, and all the benefits thereof, or would they become a Fey with the Living Construct subtype?
With my questions and misgivings about the Feytouched template set aside for the moment, I was also confused at how various Ranger variants interact with one another.
In order to be eligible for MoMF, we need to take the Ranger Variant Class:
Ranger
A ranger might forgo training in weapon combat in exchange for the ability to take animal form and move swiftly through the woodlands.
Gain
Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).
Lose
Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery.
Now, this is phrased like ACFs are phrased, but it is explicitly called a variant class. Now, I see a lot of people taking it with Mystic Ranger, another variant class, and seem to almost treat it like an ACF. However, the text seems very clear that variant classes are distinct from one another:
Multiclassing And Variant Classes
Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).
So while ACFs seem to explicitly work with variant classes, it seems that with multiple variant classes, you are expected to multiclass, even when taking variants of the same class. As far as I understand, that means that in order to have both the Wildshape Variant Ranger and the Mystic Ranger, one would need to take 5 levels of Wildshape Ranger and then proceed to take levels of Mystic Ranger, none of which would stack with one another for the purposes of abilities. These builds, however, seem to be gestalting them -- and I see the attraction to doing so, as the Mystic Ranger still has the class features the Wildshape Ranger would normally trade out to gain fast movement and wildshape. I suppose a major question I wanted to ask was: is there a RAW answer to this I'm misreading or overlooking? Can you combine these two variant classes into one neat, compact 5-level package before going into MoMF?
With that said aside, there are also a lot of ACFs that interest me greatly with regard to rangers. Is there any reason I couldn't legally combine all these ACFs into one build under the Wildshape Ranger Chassis?
Rival Organization (trade favored enemy for favored enemy organization)
Spiritual Connection (trade wild empathy for speak w/ plants and animals 3/day)
Urban Companion (level 4) (trade animal companion for a familiar)
Champion of the Wild (trade spellcasting for bonus feat)
So the final build would look like:
Full BAB, good fort/ref saves, immunity to mind-affecting, some construct immunities
Variant Ranger 1: Track, Favored Enemy Organization, Speak w/ Plants and Animals 3/day
Variant Ranger 2:
Variant Ranger 3: Endurance
Variant Ranger 4: Familiar (gain Alertness), Bonus Fighter Feat
Variant Ranger 5: Wildshape, Improved Favored Enemy Organization
Master of Many Forms 1: Shifter's Speech, Improved Wild Shape (Humanoid)
Thank you so much for any information and clarity you can provide!