D&D: Charm Spells. Proposed rules, examples to make charms usable. WIP, PEACH

[johnbragg]

1. Definition of Charm spells

Charm spells increase the target’s regard and affection for the caster. The magic is not fundamentally about getting the target to DO things for the caster, the magic is about getting the target to FEEL a certain way about the caster. This makes persuasion easier, but that is not the essence of the spell.

"Cast a spell to make the target Do This Thing" is a different line of spells. (You can obviously use charm spells to help your nonmagical persuasion, just as you can use Charisma-boosting spells to help. But it's not the direct effect of the spell).

2. Division into Least Charm, True Charms, Fanatic Charm.

There are two levels of charm I'm working with, supported in the genre fiction.

The first level I'm calling least charm, where the target is unable to raise a hand to harm the caster. Doesn't mean the target likes or approves of the caster, doesn't mean the target isn't trying to stop the caster from doing X, just that there is something prohibiting the target from being the one to strike the blow directly.

The noncombat implication of least charm is that the target does not see the caster as an enemy. (Depending on system, set attitude to Neutral or indifferent or +0 or whatever).

The second level I'm calling true charms, where the target regards the caster as a friend/ally and treats them accordingly, acting to protect the caster at some risk to themselves. In combat, this (usually) means the target will try to get the two sides to stop fighting, and will impede attacks on the caster.

A point to resolve is--can the target use disarming techniques on the caster AND her allies at the same time? Thinking fictionally, that's a reasonable move to make when your allies are fighting each other--calm emotions, mass command "drop", grappling to impede.

The noncombat implication of true charms is that the target sees the caster as a friend/ally. (Depending on system, set attitude to Friendly or Helpful or +5 or +10 or whatever).

More powerful charm effects would be available in most campaigns and settings, something like the Fanatic entry from https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#diplomacy. That sort of thing is usually an unfun experience when DM's do it to players at the table, so I think it's cheesy to write a spell for PCs to do it to NPCs. But it's a free internet.

3. Key Questions for Levelling Spells: Duration, Aftermath.

My first draft



Level
Name
Duration
Aftermath


0
Least Charm
1 minute
When the spell ends, target remembers the spell being cast


1
Minor Charm
1 minute
When the spell ends, target remembers the spell being cast


2
Major Charm
10 minutes
Target does not remember the spell being cast


3
Supreme Charm
Permanent until dispelled
Target remembers the spell being cast



4. Using the Giant's Altered Diplomacy Rules (tweaked, but his system)

See below

5. Least Charm in Combat

See below. Brief summary, target cannot attack caster. Target can and will oppose the caster.

6. True Charms in Combat.

See below. Brief summary, target regards the caster as an ally. Target will (usually) try to stop his allies from fighting each other.

7. Fanatic Charm, maybe?

I'll reserve a post below.

[johnbragg]

Charm Spells and Diplomacy / Persuasion Rules

I like the framework The Giant laid out at https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=9606632&postcount=2. I've simplified it a bit, removing the +2/-2s that 3rd edition loved so much. The 5th edition rules account for your relationship with the target, but not for how good or bad the deal is for the target.

To summarize: You roll your check when you propose a deal of some sort. The check is modified by how good or bad the deal is for the target, and by your relationship with the target. Both of those axes run on a -10 / -5 / +0 / +5 / +10 scale. Base DC is 15 + target's level/HD + Wisdom modifier. (If the target has advisors in range, use their Wisdom instead.)

Least Charm says that the target does not see the caster as an enemy. That puts a floor of +0 on the Relationship axis, usually replacing a -5 (or -10) to the check.

For True Charms, target sees the caster as a friend or ally. That sets the Relationship axis at +5 to the check.

But if least charm and minor charm only have 1 minute durations, you'd better make that deal quickly and get out of range before the target realizes they've been duped. (Or you find a way to conceal the casting of the spell). Major charm gives you a solid 10 minutes to make an agreement and start to implement it and walk away.

Supreme charm--how exactly does supreme charm work when the caster isn't there to enforce it? That needs pondering.

[johnbragg]

Least Charm in Combat

Pretty straightforward. Target cannot attack caster, cannot include the caster in an Area of Effect spell. Target recognizes the caster as hostile, but cannot strike the blow themselves.

Target can buff allies, attack caster's allies, create obstacles to caster (caltrops, area-denial spells like grease, wall of fire, create pit, entangle, etc)

[johnbragg]

True Charms in Combat

Target regards caster as a friend and ally. That almost never means the target turns on his or her existing friends-and-allies, switching sides. More than likely, the target will try to stop his "allies" from fighting each other, and failing that, stop his "allies" from killing each other. "This combat is all the result of some sort of misunderstanding, and the two sides should not be fighting each other."

Target Can:
Attempt to separate caster from target's allies.
Area-denial spells: Grease, Entangle, Wall of Fire, Wall of Stone.
Teleport allies away from caster, since persuasion clearly isn't working
Cause Fear on allies, to get them to disengage and end combat (temporarily at least)
Grapple, impede allies, block attacks on caster. (Especially if your system has mechanics to support things like tanking)
Block attacks on allies.
Heal, stabilize allies
Heal, stabilize caster
Debuff caster's allies who are attacking target's allies

Target Cannot:
Target caster with damaging or debuffing spells.
Make an attack roll against the caster.
Use buffs on allies who are going to attack the caster.
Make direct attacks on caster's allies, except in self-defense. (That's NOT going to get both sides to stop fighting)

Target Probably Will Not:
Make damaging attacks on their allies. (But when your allies are dropping your HP, sometimes you lose your temper....)

To Be Determined:
Using spells and abilities to compel both the caster and the target's allies to stop fighting and talk.
Do we carve out a "both sides" exception to the "no targeting the caster" principle.
Calm Emotions (targeting both sides)
Mass Command "Drop!" to disarm everybody, or at least major targets on both sides

[johnbragg]

Fanatic Charms

Post Reserved, just in case I change my mind

[johnbragg]

Least Charm fictional sources

Charm magic not required, just scenes where one character is stayed from striking or killing an enemy for reasons

[johnbragg]

True Charm fictional sources.

Charm magic not required, just fight scenes where one faction is trying to stop the other two from killing each other.

[johnbragg]

Supreme Charm.

How does it work when you are not there to overawe your charmed minion? Maybe Supreme Charm only really does anything when the caster is nearby--the target's will melts in the presence of the caster.

Supreme Charm is not a geas, but if the caster has made a Persuasion or Diplomacy or Charisma roll to get the target to agree to something, that should mean something.

Supreme Charm is a permanent effect, because it's creating a weakness in the target in the shape of the caster.

[johnbragg]

First draft is now complete.