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Sir_Chivalry
2020-07-28, 03:32 PM
Helping my DM punch up the encounter for Loris Raknian from Expedition to Castle Greyhawk, and old Raki has a breastplate of command and the Leadership feat, but is encountered alone save for two pet monsters he kidnapped from a noble.

As he's wearing a super expensive magic item that has to do with the leadership feat and has used a feat slot on that feat, it got me wondering . . .

Do villains who have the Leadership feat (and are not Eunuch Warlocks, Orc Warlords, etc) get any benefit at all from the feat? Or is it mostly flavour, their followers and cohort blending in elsewhere in the background?

Seems adding an entire other character (a 10th level one at that) would simply increase the Encounter Level of the encounter, not to mention a dozen or so sycophants, but otherwise that feat and the magic item seem to just waste gold for flavour

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-07-28, 04:33 PM
I'd say it's an indicator that the villain shouldn't ever be encountered alone unless the PCs do something special to separate him from his retinue. If he's alone by the book, then yes, it seems like a waste.

Demidos
2020-07-28, 04:37 PM
Usually not, unless they were encountered on the way in. Leadership tends to be (1) too broken to use well and (2) too inconvenient/unwieldly to bring in a bunch of mostly useless characters if you use it poorly. I think having a single bodyguard or some such could be reasonable -- readied actions to protect Loris shouldn't increase the CR too much or overtly disrupt combat.

Other ideas...

You could put in some sort of sidequest for the players if they realize that Loris has secretly betrayed his bodyguard, perhaps by tossing her brother in jail or something, and they can turn her to their side.

If he's super evil, you could have some unarmed attendants / minions standing around with readied actions to jump in front of him to take a hit for him. This might provide some ethical questions for the party, if your party enjoys that sort of things.

They could also throw caltrops or alchemical items from hidden rooms in the rafters. These can entangle PCs or break up charges, so they can be pretty relevant.

Maybe there is an army standing in the courtyard below when they attack Loris, so there's now a countdown number of rounds for the party to finish him and flee before the army arrives. This also gives a great followup hook at the party continues. I've never played the adventure so no idea if you have enough hooks already or what happens when he dies.

TLDR: Up to you, but there's a few ways you can spice up an encounter a bit with relevant bits of leadership without totally breaking the combat.

Sir_Chivalry
2020-07-28, 05:09 PM
Spoilers for Age of Worms if anyone cares

To explain the character slightly, he's a former gladiatorial champion turned minor celebrity noble, with a bit of a fallen star in years past after a younger and stronger fighter won the belt with even more flair. Being the organizer of the Champion's Belt, he is thoroughly seduced to an alliance with the cult of the Worm that Walks, and after being thwarted flees in the ensuing chaos of a released monster bent on killing the young fighter who unseated him, never to be seen again or mentioned in the adventure.

Late 3.5 included him in a collection of adventures in the book Expedition to Castle Greyhawk, and so my DM (at my suggestion) is filling out the storyline for him with these encounters.

NontheistCleric
2020-07-28, 06:29 PM
Honestly, the Leadership feat is pretty irrelevant to NPCs. If the DM thinks a villain should have any number of cohorts or followers, they just have them, feat or no.

So, yes, the feat and item are essentially wasted on Loris, but on the other hand the DM can just change those things, if they should actually become a problem. If not, just let him waste those resources—it's not like NPCs need to be optimized.

Sir_Chivalry
2020-07-29, 08:19 AM
In the process of punching up Tolstoff Keep at the same time, I half-remembered something from Exemplars of Evil about this and searched for it in my books.


Minions, Lackeys, and the Leadership Feat
The Leadership feat (PH 97 and DMG 106) is primarily intended to address how player characters accumulate followers as they gain levels and garner a reputation for greatness. As such, the feat is unsuitable for villains, who often spend more time building a network of servants, brokering deals with monstrous entities, and putting terrifying plots into motion. Furthermore, villains—by their very nature—are not the sorts of individuals who accomplish heroic deeds or have impressive qualities, so their leadership scores often suffer due to bad behavior. Still, if you choose to give your villain the Leadership feat, she gains a cohort and followers in addition to any servants she accumulates by dint of her villainy.]

No specifics about whether such a character includes their cohort the way a druid villain includes their animal companion, for instance.

NontheistCleric
2020-07-29, 12:32 PM
No specifics about whether such a character includes their cohort the way a druid villain includes their animal companion, for instance.

I think the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted makes it pretty clear that they would include the cohort. Yet the feat is still functionally useless, since even if they didn't have that feat, the DM could just give the villain an extra helper if they felt it was warranted.

Telonius
2020-07-29, 03:45 PM
It makes more sense for hidden-in-plain-sight villains, by that description. Senator Palpatine for instance. He always has at least one cohort, and has a reputation for greatness (up until the reveal when he declares himself Emperor).

nedz
2020-07-31, 07:57 AM
I do away with the Leadership feat entirely - it is optional by RAW.

If PCs acquire a follower then great - but that's a roleplay thing.
As for NPCs: a Boss should have some henchmen obviously.