On losing prestige class benefits

[Raishoiken]

So there's been the occasionally discussed losing of the abilities a prestige class grants when losing prereqs, and while perusing the dark chaos feats it seems as if the fiendish codex is another place that assumes you lose benefits of the class, at least as far as that specific spell is concerned if you wanna get specific enough about it:


If the lost feat was a prerequisite for other feats or prestige classes, the subject loses access to those feats or prestige class abilities until it once again meets all the prerequisites.


not of course implying the spell makes the rule but, just more food for the thought i suppose

[Ashtagon]

Here's what the rule books actually say:

DMG 3.0e p27
Must meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (2nd column, right after the bullet list)

DMG 3.5e p176
Must meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
[Unspecified] lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost

Complete Warrior p16
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take 1st level
Must meet prerequisites to take later levels (1st paragraph under Meeting Class requirements)
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (2nd paragraph under Meeting Class requirements)

Complete Arcane p17
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (3rd paragraph under Picking A Prestige Class)

The 3.5e DMG dropped the section which discussed creating prestige classes, and in so doing dropped the paragraph about losing prestige class abilities if you no longer meet prerequisites. I have no strong opinion on what they intended by dropping that paragraph, especially since as written, it was a general rule on prestige classes, and not a specific discussion on the art of creating new prestige classes.

So yeah. Four books. Four different RAW. Take your pick.

[Raishoiken]

Here's what the rule books actually say:

DMG 3.0e p27
Must meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (2nd column, right after the bullet list)

DMG 3.5e p176
Must meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
[Unspecified] lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost

Complete Warrior p16
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take 1st level
Must meet prerequisites to take later levels (1st paragraph under Meeting Class requirements)
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (2nd paragraph under Meeting Class requirements)

Complete Arcane p17
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take 1st level
[Unspecified] meet prerequisites to take later levels
Will lose prestige abilities if prerequisites lost (3rd paragraph under Picking A Prestige Class)

The 3.5e DMG dropped the section which discussed creating prestige classes, and in so doing dropped the paragraph about losing prestige class abilities if you no longer meet prerequisites. I have no strong opinion on what they intended by dropping that paragraph, especially since as written, it was a general rule on prestige classes, and not a specific discussion on the art of creating new prestige classes.

So yeah. Four books. Four different RAW. Take your pick.



I think there are decent enough arguments for how to run it on both the lose and not lose abilities sides of the coin as far as table use tbh

[Ashtagon]

It gets even more entertaining when you note that some prestige classes offer class features that effectively mean you no longer qualify for the class's prerequisites. Some of these are even in the same book that has the rule about not meeting prestige class prerequisites means you lose all the prestige class features.

[Gruftzwerg]

It gets even more entertaining when you note that some prestige classes offer class features that effectively mean you no longer qualify for the class's prerequisites. Some of these are even in the same book that has the rule about not meeting prestige class prerequisites means you lose all the prestige class features.

^ this

and the rule hierarchy dictates that the DMG is the primary source for PRC rules. This means that the 2 "Complete ..." books can only suppress the DMG for their own (niche) book. It doesn't become a general rule. As said, many prc would stop working if this would be a general rule. E.g. the Dragon Disciple from DMG. It needs to be a non-dragon to enter and becomes a dragon at lvl 10 due to the half-dragon template it gets.
So we can clearly see different intentions by the designers in different books.

By RAW only those 2 books in 3.5 still have that rule to loose access to PRC stuff if you loose the prerequisites. If a DM wants to really apply this rule, I would recommend it only for the 2 books where the rules actually back it up. By RAW those books as said have no influence to other books because they get suppressed by the DMG. Same for any quotes from Fiendish Codex (is it 3.0?).

[KillianHawkeye]

Same for any quotes from Fiendish Codex (is it 3.0?).

Just for posterity, Fiendish Codex was printed in 2006 and is definitely for 3.5 edition. You might be thinking of Fiend Folio, which was a Monster Manual style book for 3rd Edition.