Weapon Juggler

[Nagog]

Question for the DMs:

If I were to make a character (My idea was Ranger, but works with Fighter and a few other classes as well) that was capable of making 3 thrown weapon attacks per round, would you allow the character to juggle said weapons before throwing them? How would you facilitate that and the difficulty of it?

I imagine something like Performance checks while maintaining it that are triggered by anything that would trigger a concentration check, but that's just me. What are your thoughts?

[firelistener]

The entertainer background from the Player's Handbook already has a specialty for being a juggler, so I'd just suggest they take that, or something similar in a custom background.

As for combat, I would completely ignore it and treat it as fluff on top of holding two weapons normally or just one hand (depending on how they're juggling, I guess). It sounds like too much work for me otherwise lol, and I don't think there's much mechanical advantage to it since most thrown stuff is kept in a quiver or bag anyway and only requires one free hand to throw normally.

[GooeyChewie]

If you're trying to get by the requirement of drawing the weapon, then I would want you to devote something to it to get that advantage. There was an Unearthed Arcana last November with variant class features. One of those features was a Thrown Weapon Fighting style:


Thrown Weapon Fighting
You can draw a weapon that has the thrown
property as part of the attack you make with the
weapon.
In addition, when you hit with a ranged attack
using a thrown weapon, you gain a +1 bonus to
the damage roll.

https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf

I liked the fighting style options (and several other options) in that UA, so I would allow my player to take this fighting style and simply draw the weapons rather than making them juggle the weapons. Of course, your DM may differ on how much UA they allow.



Now, if you want to do the juggling thing just to look cool, not to get around any mechanical issues or get any mechanical advantages, then I'd just allow it. Presumably it's something your character does often enough to not have a real chance of failure, and I don't want to punish my players for doing cool things.

[nickl_2000]

I've heard of lots of DMs allowing the drawing and throwing of a dart/dagger/axe as all part of the same attack. This is not uncommon at all.

[Aett_Thorn]

I've heard of lots of DMs allowing the drawing and throwing of a dart/dagger/axe as all part of the same attack. This is not uncommon at all.

Yeah, the combat draw weapons rules are weird, in my opinion. I can draw a second arrow, knock it, site in a target, and attack, but I can't pull out a second javelin and do the same. It makes throwing weapons very, very bad if you don't allow it, and breaks nothing if you do allow it.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yeah, the combat draw weapons rules are weird, in my opinion. I can draw a second arrow, knock it, site in a target, and attack, but I can't pull out a second javelin and do the same. It makes throwing weapons very, very bad if you don't allow it, and breaks nothing if you do allow it.

I think there are a number of complications with that.

Strength builds can use Throwing Weapons as their ranged options. Strength Builds also happen to have the most efficient stat-per-AC values: 15 Strength to get 18 AC, 20 Dexterity to get 17 AC (or 14 Dexterity if you don't mind losing your Stealth skill).

They also have the most amount of damage. The highest damage a melee Dexterity weapon can reach is 1d8 (4.5), while a Strength weapon reaches 2d6 (7).

Even the damage on ranged weapons isn't all that bad, considering the Javelin has 1d6 (3.5) and the Longbow has 1d8 (4.5).

In most combat, the ranges don't expand much more than 150 on each side (with 1-inch grid squares, that's a 2.5 foot battlemap), and usually one force is in the center while another is coming from an edge, meaning you're only really working with a distance of about ~70 feet between you and your target. Coincidentally, that's about the distance of a Move+Dash, or a Move+Ranged Attack.

But that Ranged Attack also includes Throwing Weapons. Javelins have a 30ft range.

Making a throwing weapon specialist isn't all that much different than making a ranged weapon specialist, since they're both limited to the same ranges anyway in most real encounters. Limiting the number of throwing weapons used is, honestly, a kinda clever way of forcing ammunition weapons to stay relevant in mid-range combat (which is most combat).

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of making a throwing specialist, I just don't buy into the whole "throwing weapons are useless" complaint, since throwing weapons would be almost strictly better than most weapons if you remove the weapon-draw issue.

[Nagog]

I think there are a number of complications with that.

Strength builds can use Throwing Weapons as their ranged options. Strength Builds also happen to have the most efficient stat-per-AC values: 15 Strength to get 18 AC, 20 Dexterity to get 17 AC (or 14 Dexterity if you don't mind losing your Stealth skill).


Technically Studded Leather can get 18 AC with maxed Dex, but yeah you have a good point as far as stats vs. AC.

This was more of a thought experiment on building a character that breaks all of the possible tropes, thematically, mechanically, and otherwise (a Court Jester themed Ranger that uses Str instead of Dex for a melee/short range combat style)

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Yeah, the combat draw weapons rules are weird, in my opinion. I can draw a second arrow, knock it, site in a target, and attack, but I can't pull out a second javelin and do the same. It makes throwing weapons very, very bad if you don't allow it, and breaks nothing if you do allow it.
Is there a like button I could hit for this response?