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View Full Version : Eldritch Knight, Dexterity vs Strength.



Jmarsh56
2020-07-31, 05:04 PM
The obvious is strength gets heavy armour and a bigger variety of weapons, but for s&b and max attacking stat you get the same results between light armour and heavy AND one handed weapons.

Now strength gets more damaging weapons, but realistically if you dont take any feats that augment those heavy weapons the gap isnt that great... and Dexterity gives you many more bonuses than strength (dex based skills, initiative and better saves).

My question is when building an EK, are the standard heavy weapon feats worth taking? Polearm master is decent as always, but to get the full benefit from it on and EK you need spell sniper and war caster. 3 feats to play into a weapon is a big ask isnt it? Great weapon master is good, but it's no better than any other class can do it.

heavyfuel
2020-07-31, 05:20 PM
I'd go Dex for sure.

Better AC with a Shield, better Initiative and saves as well.

Damage-wise, you don't actually suffer too much. Most of your Bonus actions will be taken by EK's Lv 7, so taking PAM or GWM has reduced benefits when compared to other Fighters. If you're not taking these, then Rapier+Dueling style will give you as much damage as a d10 weapon+two handed style.

Man_Over_Game
2020-07-31, 05:20 PM
The obvious is strength gets heavy armour and a bigger variety of weapons, but for s&b and max attacking stat you get the same results between light armour and heavy AND one handed weapons.

Now strength gets more damaging weapons, but realistically if you dont take any feats that augment those heavy weapons the gap isnt that great... and Dexterity gives you many more bonuses than strength (dex based skills, initiative and better saves).

My question is when building an EK, are the standard heavy weapon feats worth taking? Polearm master is decent as always, but to get the full benefit from it on and EK you need spell sniper and war caster. 3 feats to play into a weapon is a big ask isnt it? Great weapon master is good, but it's no better than any other class can do it.

Dexterity will require more stats to keep as high of an AC (15 STR for 18 AC, 14 DEX for 17 AC, or 20 DEX for 17 AC and Stealth). Without any feats or spells, a 2-Hand Strength user would usually have 19 AC where a one-handed DEX character would have 19 (Duelist + shield) and have to invest in War Caster for that sweet, sweet Shield spell. AC gets stronger the more you have, and nobody can abuse Shield like a well-optimized Eldritch Knight.

That's basically the biggest difference. A Dexterity-based EK would have a lot more versatility (ranged weapons) and basically have War Caster as a feat tax, but that's not a big deal if you already planned on getting War Caster. A Strength-based EK will probably need to get ranged attack cantrips, while a Dexterity-based version wouldn't. A STR EK can invest more into Intelligence for better combat spells, while a DEX EK would likely have a low INT and focus on utility.


So ask yourself: Are you focused on Combat (Strength) or Utility (Dexterity)? Those are the biggest differences between the two.

Jmarsh56
2020-07-31, 05:31 PM
Dexterity will require more stats to keep as high of an AC (15 STR for 18 AC, 14 DEX for 17 AC, or 20 DEX for 17 AC and Stealth). Without any feats or spells, a 2-Hand Strength user would usually have 19 AC where a one-handed DEX character would have 19 (Duelist + shield) and have to invest in War Caster for that sweet, sweet Shield spell. AC gets stronger the more you have, and nobody can abuse Shield like a well-optimized Eldritch Knight.

That's basically the biggest difference. A Dexterity-based EK would have a lot more versatility (ranged weapons) and basically have War Caster as a feat tax, but that's not a big deal if you already planned on getting War Caster. A Strength-based EK will probably need to get ranged attack cantrips, while a Dexterity-based version wouldn't. A STR EK can invest more into Intelligence for better combat spells, while a DEX EK would likely have a low INT and focus on utility.


So ask yourself: Are you focused on Combat (Strength) or Utility (Dexterity)? Those are the biggest differences between the two.

Well I actually planning to go simic hybrid so with light or medium armor I could get the +1 to AC to match heavy armour and even surpass it with medium armour master, shield and defensive fighting style.

Stats are 17 15 13 12 10 8 so I can start with an 18 in whatever my attack stat is

ImproperJustice
2020-07-31, 11:07 PM
Do you need ranged weapons if you can cast Firebolt?

Mobility isn’t too big a deal with Expeditious Retreat or Misty Step.

Eh....Throw your weight around, wear heavy armor and shield and swing a spear you can throw and call back to yourself.

Impress your friends with your greater jumping distance and ability to smash open doors.

Misterwhisper
2020-07-31, 11:46 PM
Do you need ranged weapons if you can cast Firebolt?

Mobility isn’t too big a deal with Expeditious Retreat or Misty Step.

Eh....Throw your weight around, wear heavy armor and shield and swing a spear you can throw and call back to yourself.

Impress your friends with your greater jumping distance and ability to smash open doors.

The issue with eldritch knight is that it is great at level 7 when you can Cantrip (Booming Blade is a good one) and then attack once.

But when you hit 11 and it would be 3 attacks or 1 attack and 1 cantrip, not nearly as impressive.

Where Eldritch Knight shines is defense and self buffing.

That is why many people do not bother boosting INT on an eldritch knight, also another issue with attack spells is that they will be INT based (also why Booming Blade is so good for them).

jaappleton
2020-07-31, 11:54 PM
The issue with eldritch knight is that it is great at level 7 when you can Cantrip (Booming Blade is a good one) and then attack once.

But when you hit 11 and it would be 3 attacks or 1 attack and 1 cantrip, not nearly as impressive.

Where Eldritch Knight shines is defense and self buffing.

That is why many people do not bother boosting INT on an eldritch knight, also another issue with attack spells is that they will be INT based (also why Booming Blade is so good for them).

Agreed.

Taking EK and expecting to use your spells to deal damage will lead to disappointment. As a 1/3rd caster, your spells will simple be too far behind to deal competitive damage through your spell slots. For this reason, you're pretty much relegated to using your spells defensively.

Its also for this reason that, in order for those spells to get mileage out of your meager amount of spell slots, I recommend being an Archer. As an EK Fighter, I recommend dumping INT, going DEX and CON with some WIS if you can for mental saves, and going Crossbow Expert with a hand crossbow.

But that's me.

Now.... if you can get your hands on the illustrious magic item known as the Illusionists Bracers to repeat a cantrip as a bonus action and go to down with Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade, that's another story, but good luck pulling that build off without some serious DM cooperation.

Misterwhisper
2020-08-01, 12:03 AM
Agreed.

Taking EK and expecting to use your spells to deal damage will lead to disappointment. As a 1/3rd caster, your spells will simple be too far behind to deal competitive damage through your spell slots. For this reason, you're pretty much relegated to using your spells defensively.

Its also for this reason that, in order for those spells to get mileage out of your meager amount of spell slots, I recommend being an Archer. As an EK Fighter, I recommend dumping INT, going DEX and CON with some WIS if you can for mental saves, and going Crossbow Expert with a hand crossbow.

But that's me.

Now.... if you can get your hands on the illustrious magic item known as the Illusionists Bracers to repeat a cantrip as a bonus action and go to down with Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade, that's another story, but good luck pulling that build off without some serious DM cooperation.

If some illusionist bracers are around and the best person for them is the fighter, something is very strange in your group.

My warlock would sell out his patron to get a pair of those.

LudicSavant
2020-08-01, 12:27 AM
If you're ranged, obviously you want Dex.

If you're melee, EKs benefit more from sword and board than any other Fighter archetype, and Dexterity is better at sword and board unless you wanna shove/grapple.

Zhorn
2020-08-01, 02:46 AM
I'd like to defend the EK a bit, they can deal GOOD damage with War Magic and it's nothing to sneeze at, but it is true they don't deal the BEST damage.
Defence is the name of the game with EKs, be it DEX or STR, high AC or halving elemental damage through Shield and Absorb Elements are your big draws. If you want to go for the bigger weaponry through Great Weapon Master, I'd argue for another subclass to get more consistent bang for your buck (though Eldritch Strike + Hold Person + Action Surge nova can still be devastating). Want to be a damage dealing EK, Warcaster + fighter's CON save proficiency makes it really hard for opponents to break your concentration (even harder if you S&B for the extra AC). Either Haste yourself, or rock a Shadow Blade and go to town, less dependency on waiting for an opponent to fail a save to leave you an opening.

Tanarii
2020-08-01, 02:48 AM
Str and Int.

Str for melee and HA.
Int for ranged and AoE.

Don't fall into the traps of Shield use or dumping Int.

Dork_Forge
2020-08-01, 02:55 AM
Personally I'd go with dumping Str and going Dex based, aiming for at least a +2 Int. You don't need to have a high Int by any means to make a good EK, but having the option of a decent if not good save DC/attack bonus is a nice fall back and as a consequence you'll actually be decent at Arcana. Unless you're interested in heavy weapons, Dex is superior to Str in most ways, especially on a Fighter that has the extra ASIs to afford Medium Armor Mastery, closing the AC gap whilst simultaneously being vastly better at stealth.

I have played a Str based EK/Sorc multiclass in the past and it was fun, but that was mostly driven by wanting to be good at fighting with a staff in a 'magic-y' way rather than optimised an EK.

Zhorn
2020-08-01, 02:56 AM
Str for melee and HA.

HA? not familiar with that acronym

Dork_Forge
2020-08-01, 03:05 AM
HA? not familiar with that acronym

I believe that would be Heavy Armor, due to the Str prereqs to avoid speed penalties.

MrConsideration
2020-08-01, 03:12 AM
HA? not familiar with that acronym

Heavy Armour

MrStabby
2020-08-01, 03:53 AM
I would say that both are viable, what I would suggest is working out what character you want to play, then making it work.

So optimising strength usually means things like PAM, GWM etc., even on an EK they are hard to beat.

DeX can be an archer, with a similar commitment to crossbow expert and sharpshooter.

Dex melee gets more interesting as you get most of your power straight out of the box and have some free reign on things like feats and ASIs. So you can get things like high int, ritual caster or other generally good feats. Picking up lucky or resilient wisdom early or maybe one of the racial feats (elvish accuracy is always popular). Maybe mobility? There are a lot of good options.

If UA is on the table a DeX build gets even more life with the recent feats released. Expertise in stealth? Fey touched can turn you into a teleporting mincing machine. Or just something like piercer for some decent enough passive buffs.

I have been tempted by something like this, focussed on spellcasting. Some spells through EK, half drow for more spellcasting, fey touched at level 4, drow magic at 6, ritual caster at 8 for really magical feel to the character.

jaappleton
2020-08-01, 06:24 AM
Sword and board is a huge problem is your DM enforces the rules regarding material and somatic components. Forced you I to spending a Feat on Warcaster. Which isn’t necessarily bad, because then I believe you can use Booming Blade when an enemy triggers an opportunity attack.

But it is something to keep in mind.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 06:46 AM
I would say that both are viable, what I would suggest is working out what character you want to play, then making it work.

Dex melee gets more interesting as you get most of your power straight out of the box and have some free reign on things like feats and ASIs. So you can get things like high int, ritual caster or other generally good feats. Picking up lucky or resilient wisdom early or maybe one of the racial feats (elvish accuracy is always popular). Maybe mobility? There are a lot of good options.

If UA is on the table a DeX build gets even more life with the recent feats released. Expertise in stealth? Fey touched can turn you into a teleporting mincing machine. Or just something like piercer for some decent enough passive buffs.

I actually have a pretty well defined idea of the character just trying to optimize within that. The guy is going to be a native chultan (think incan/mayan/aztec warrior) in a game set in chult, but not ToA just a sandbox experience. Hes going to have been worshipping a god long though dead. He began to grow scales and sprout wings (race is going to be simic hybrid and he views these mutations as gifts from his god (a couatl).

I intend on him being mostly front lines. And using his magic, mostly, as a defensive thing but I do want to be able to cast certain spells to be flavored as fire breath instead of burning hands.

I've considered dipping into Theurgy Wizard after getting extra attack to get life, light or war domain stuff.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 06:48 AM
Sword and board is a huge problem is your DM enforces the rules regarding material and somatic components. Forced you I to spending a Feat on Warcaster. Which isn’t necessarily bad, because then I believe you can use Booming Blade when an enemy triggers an opportunity attack.

But it is something to keep in mind.

Already planning on War Caster.

Tanarii
2020-08-01, 08:22 AM
Already planning on War Caster.
Be aware War Caster doesn't cover M components. You'll still need to sheath your weapon before casting a spell with one of those.

Also you'll need to figure out how to handle 3rd level.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 08:31 AM
Be aware War Caster doesn't cover M components. You'll still need to sheath your weapon before casting a spell with one of those.

Also you'll need to figure out how to handle 3rd level.

Theres only one spell I planning to take that has M components at that level. I will probably hold off till 6 for it to be honest.

Tanarii
2020-08-01, 08:35 AM
Theres only one spell I planning to take that has M components at that level. I will probably hold off till 6 for it to be honest.
I mean that at 3rd level, you won't have War Caster, so you'll have to sheath your weapon for S component spells. Including most cantrips.

With the release of Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade both of these issues become less of a problem. They don't have S components, and the M component is the weapon.

It's mostly something you have to think about when casting Gust of Wind, Shatter, or Fireball. All good picks for an EK.

da newt
2020-08-01, 08:39 AM
Both can work fine - hard to choose wrong, but I prefer DEX for a S&B EK (saves, initiative, stealth, etc) for a BB / Shadow Blade build. I'm currently playing a goblin EK.

Of course if you prefer GWM/PAM then ST.

Also, depending on your priorities, for a S&B build Defensive FS might actually be more beneficial than Dueling.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 09:20 AM
I mean that at 3rd level, you won't have War Caster, so you'll have to sheath your weapon for S component spells. Including most cantrips.

With the release of Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade both of these issues become less of a problem. They don't have S components, and the M component is the weapon.

It's mostly something you have to think about when casting Gust of Wind, Shatter, or Fireball. All good picks for an EK.

I only plan on using those in combat before war Caster. Not sure which yet, but the other cantrip will be utility/flavor.

da newt
2020-08-01, 10:13 AM
Another option that might be very effective is to go ST, PAM, shield and staff/spear. With War Caster every Op Attack can be a BB and will trigger if anyone moves away or steps into melee w/ you, and you will always have a BA attack option.

You would lose out on GWM and reach, but your AC will be 2 higher, and you'll still have ALL the attacks every round.

Someone smart could figure out which DPR is best at which levels.

Misterwhisper
2020-08-01, 12:37 PM
I prefer playing an eldritch Knight as an archer.

Archery is very strong this edition.
Also frees up a hand for components if you need it.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 01:14 PM
I prefer playing an eldritch Knight as an archer.

Archery is very strong this edition.
Also frees up a hand for components if you need it.

What's your strategy? Mostly the same as melee just at range? Defensive spells and stuff?

Misterwhisper
2020-08-01, 03:32 PM
What's your strategy? Mostly the same as melee just at range? Defensive spells and stuff?

Mainly defensive spells: top picks

Shield
Absorb elements
Either mage armor or find familiar


There is not a lot of incentive to cast offensive spells except BB/GFB.

With archery you will have a better to hit bonus than any melee build.
You will not likely be targeted as much so when it does come up you have shield or absorb elements.

You still have a good stack of HP.

Later you can self buff even more with things like invisibility or haste.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-01, 03:51 PM
Mainly defensive spells: top picks

Shield
Absorb elements
Either mage armor or find familiar


There is not a lot of incentive to cast offensive spells except BB/GFB.

With archery you will have a better to hit bonus than any melee build.
You will not likely be targeted as much so when it does come up you have shield or absorb elements.

You still have a good stack of HP.

Later you can self buff even more with things like invisibility or haste.

Hmmm, If I go dex (which I leaning heavily towards) I do plan on having a bow. But the personality and concept for this guy just doesn't lean into range... I envision this guy almost paladin like. Exacting vengeance in the front lines.

da newt
2020-08-01, 04:16 PM
A ranged build is quite good at dealing damage and excellent at surviving / avoiding being damaged, but then you aren't tanking at all. Depending on party composition a ranged EK can be very good or leave the party vulnerable due to lack of front liners.

It's a very viable build, but not what I envision an EK is all about - good damage, excellent tanking.


What role are you trying to build your EK for?

Kemev
2020-08-01, 11:48 PM
I do plan on having a bow. But the personality and concept for this guy just doesn't lean into range... I envision this guy almost paladin like. Exacting vengeance in the front lines.

It really sounds like you have your core concept together here.



If you're melee, EKs benefit more from sword and board than any other Fighter archetype, and Dexterity is better at sword and board unless you wanna shove/grapple.

I'd second this. The biggest trade-off to going Dex over Str is losing Athletics. I could see a build where you're focused on Simic Hybrid's claws/tentacles for a grapple focused character, but it sounds like you want the Dex + Carapace for max armor. Which is totally fine! ...you don't need feats beyond Medium Armor Master and War Caster, and even those might be optional.

A few thoughts that I don't think got mentioned yet...


If you're DM's cool with it, you don't necessarily need the War Caster feat tax. XGTE has a common magic item called Ruby of the Warmage, which attaches to a weapon of your choice and allows you to use it as a spell focus. Even if you take War Caster eventually, this helps bridge the gap at low levels until you're ready to spend a feat.
I would also straight-up ask your DM what the odds are of you finding a Headband of Intellect. I'm usually opposed to building around equipment, but in this case it matters a lot for your feats/ASIs and spells.
If you can keep your Int high, the Lightning Lure cantrip is pretty neat. It's not strictly optimal damage-wise, but it fits your role (and is a lot of fun). It also works pretty well with War Magic.
At some point when you end up with high Int AND Warcaster AND Lightning Lure, you can use a whip to trigger AoOs to cast Lightning Lure, setting up a pseudo-Sentinel where you can grab enemies as they try to move past you or get away. (Honestly it's worth considering the whip for any dex build... yeah it's -2 damage vs rapier, but it sets up more attacks.)

Jmarsh56
2020-08-02, 08:38 AM
It really sounds like you have your core concept together here.



I'd second this. The biggest trade-off to going Dex over Str is losing Athletics. I could see a build where you're focused on Simic Hybrid's claws/tentacles for a grapple focused character, but it sounds like you want the Dex + Carapace for max armor. Which is totally fine! ...you don't need feats beyond Medium Armor Master and War Caster, and even those might be optional.

A few thoughts that I don't think got mentioned yet...


If you're DM's cool with it, you don't necessarily need the War Caster feat tax. XGTE has a common magic item called Ruby of the Warmage, which attaches to a weapon of your choice and allows you to use it as a spell focus. Even if you take War Caster eventually, this helps bridge the gap at low levels until you're ready to spend a feat.
I would also straight-up ask your DM what the odds are of you finding a Headband of Intellect. I'm usually opposed to building around equipment, but in this case it matters a lot for your feats/ASIs and spells.
If you can keep your Int high, the Lightning Lure cantrip is pretty neat. It's not strictly optimal damage-wise, but it fits your role (and is a lot of fun). It also works pretty well with War Magic.
At some point when you end up with high Int AND Warcaster AND Lightning Lure, you can use a whip to trigger AoOs to cast Lightning Lure, setting up a pseudo-Sentinel where you can grab enemies as they try to move past you or get away. (Honestly it's worth considering the whip for any dex build... yeah it's -2 damage vs rapier, but it sets up more attacks.)



Oooh lots of good info here, I had considered the appendages and grappling some but I'm not sure I'm sold on it. I think if your taking dex to 20 MAM is a bit of a waste to be honest, when you can get 17 with studded leather vs the 18 from half plate.

I hadnt considered the headband of intellect or the ruby, our DM usually doesnt give out many magic items but I could talk to him.

How does lightning lure and AoOs work? I assume I would still have to be within 5' to trigger it, but if I took spell sniper (and war caster) with a whip would that effectively give me a 10' AoO range for Booming Blade and LLure?

Zhorn
2020-08-02, 09:22 AM
... you don't necessarily need the War Caster feat tax...
I wouldn't class Warcaster as a feat tax for EKs. Granted it is nice to get around the Somatic components when your hands are full with weapons and/or a shield, but the other 2 points are so strong for an EK the feat would probably still be worth while with just those.
Swapping your Opportunity Attacks for Booming Blade packs a big hit that scales with level, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, having the fighter's proficiency in CON saves + the feat's advantage on concentrations check (further bolstered by fighters generally having a high CON score also) makes you the best as holding concentration of pretty much all casters.
You can skip the feat, and the class doesn't become unplayable. Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade both being your bread and butter spells both lack Somatic components.

ZerohFG
2020-08-02, 10:16 AM
Why not INT? As mentioned, spell damage can be an issue for EK, and your spell slots are usually used for buff spells on yourself since your DC and spell attack are lower than a full caster. However that kinda ruins it's war magic and eldritch strike features. However, if you are allowed to multiclass and use artificer, we can up your magic game and your martial game at the same time.

a 4 level dip into a Battle Smith artificer can get you a couple cantrips, some spells, including an always ready Shield spell. You get a robot dog, can make +1 weapons and armor, early game bag of holding, etc. However the real reason why battle smith, is the Battle Ready class feature, which makes any martial attack using a magical weapon (which you can make yourself) use your INT, which is also your casting stat. This allows you to boost both offensive features of the EK at the same time. If you are less worried about ASI's because you stat rolled nicely, than you could go 3 artificer, and get 17 levels of EK for Improved war magic, which allows a full spell, followed up with attack.

An example would be:

you attack with chill touch, then using bonus action war magic with a magic longbow that allows eldritch strike to do its thing. Next round you use toll the dead, thanks to eldritch strike, they have disadvantage on the save, they are wounded and can't be healed because of chill touch, so toll the dead will be rolling d12s instead of d8s, then once again attack with your magic longbow, and keep blasting away at a nice safe range. You will have a much better spell save dc and can use the EK as more than a buff monster.

But if you are set on DEX or STR, I'd always say sword and board plate monster with Haste is fun. And you are a fighter, you get extra ASI, so feel free to blow them on feats. Don't worry having to pick up war caster, you still have an extra ASI even after that.

Jmarsh56
2020-08-02, 12:05 PM
Why not INT? As mentioned, spell damage can be an issue for EK, and your spell slots are usually used for buff spells on yourself since your DC and spell attack are lower than a full caster. However that kinda ruins it's war magic and eldritch strike features. However, if you are allowed to multiclass and use artificer, we can up your magic game and your martial game at the same time.

a 4 level dip into a Battle Smith artificer can get you a couple cantrips, some spells, including an always ready Shield spell. You get a robot dog, can make +1 weapons and armor, early game bag of holding, etc. However the real reason why battle smith, is the Battle Ready class feature, which makes any martial attack using a magical weapon (which you can make yourself) use your INT, which is also your casting stat. This allows you to boost both offensive features of the EK at the same time. If you are less worried about ASI's because you stat rolled nicely, than you could go 3 artificer, and get 17 levels of EK for Improved war magic, which allows a full spell, followed up with attack.

An example would be:

you attack with chill touch, then using bonus action war magic with a magic longbow that allows eldritch strike to do its thing. Next round you use toll the dead, thanks to eldritch strike, they have disadvantage on the save, they are wounded and can't be healed because of chill touch, so toll the dead will be rolling d12s instead of d8s, then once again attack with your magic longbow, and keep blasting away at a nice safe range. You will have a much better spell save dc and can use the EK as more than a buff monster.

But if you are set on DEX or STR, I'd always say sword and board plate monster with Haste is fun. And you are a fighter, you get extra ASI, so feel free to blow them on feats. Don't worry having to pick up war caster, you still have an extra ASI even after that.


Well partly because I don't want to have to worry about when the build comes online. We will be starting at level 2 and going to... Well who knows. I would rather not have to build around a multiclass that is really a budget melee and budget caster until what, 8th level at best. 3 for Artificer and 5 EK for extra attack. Same goes for a build that revolves around 3 feats or more to really hit home. Not saying its a bad idea, I just strongly doubt we get anywhere close to 13th level in the remotely near future. I would rather do something like 5EK for extra attack and possibly dip into wizard for 2 levels (thinking Thuergy for a channel divinity and some cleric spells to emulate some divine powers) to fill some cantrip slots and a few more utility spells and rituals. That comes online really at 5, adds some flavor with the wizard dip, and then keeps pushing what an EK does. Fighting and casting when they can.

Kemev
2020-08-02, 08:44 PM
I wouldn't class Warcaster as a feat tax for EKs... Swapping your Opportunity Attacks for Booming Blade packs a big hit that scales with level

Kinda. It depends on what level you're looking at... I'm guessing the OP wants to play up from level 1, and starting as a Simic Hybrid, wouldn't get War Caster until level 4 (at earliest). In the meantime, the character wouldn't be able to use the Shield spell and equip a shield at the same time.

On top of that, BB/GFB don't really come online before level 5, and don't get REALLY good until mid levels. Plus EK doesn't really get useful concentration spells 'til level 7, when it gets 2nd level spells. So it takes take a bit for War Caster to get good, and if you had the Ruby, you might reasonably put off taking the feat until level 8.

Obviously it's campaign dependent and up to your DM, but Ruby of the Warmage is valued at ~150 gps, which feels like a modest ask (especially compared to other melee builds where people demand A-list armors that are much more expensive).



How does lightning lure and AoOs work? I assume I would still have to be within 5' to trigger it, but if I took spell sniper (and war caster) with a whip would that effectively give me a 10' AoO range for Booming Blade and LLure?

You don't need Spell Sniper for Lightning Lure; just War Caster. Lure's got range 15 ft, and whip effectively has range 10. So if something moves through that 10ft radius around you, you can cast Lure and try to reel them in. (note that Lure does have a Strength saving throw, so you're probably not grabbing that troll... but maybe you can snag the necromancer from behind his skeletal minions)

You would need Spell Sniper for BB/GFB... they only have range 5, so they can't ordinarily hit something that triggers an AoO from a reach weapon.

I agree medium armor master is a bit underwhelming, but you had mentioned it above (and also a lot of people seem to like it? I'm less excited).

Zhorn
2020-08-02, 10:49 PM
@Kemev; reasonable points, but still debatable in some aspects.
Shield spell while shield wielding IS an issue... for one level. Level 3 tends to go by pretty fast, but that will be DM/game dependant if either XP is unusually slow or the DM stretches that milestone out a bit longer than normal.
I like Ruby of the Warmage as a way to get past lacking the Spellcasting Focus feature as an EK, but I've also had DM's rule it turning a weapon into a viable spellcasting focus is not the same as granting your class the ability to use a spellcasting focus if it were already lacking the feature.
Now it is intended that it is usable by Rangers and EK by Jeremy Crawford

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/958068645493538821?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ruby of the war mage, a magic item in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, requires attunement by a spellcaster. Rangers are spellcasters. Rangers can therefore use the item. In fact, we designed the item with spellcasters like rangers and eldritch knights in mind.
But RAI =/= RAW, so it's best to confirm your DM's interpretation before relying on it.
Also worth noting that the Ruby will chew up an attunement slot. Less of an issue at low levels, but if playing in a game where magic items are common enough (which if you can count of getting the ruby at request at such a low level then you probably are), making it not a viable long term strategy when more items start competing for those limited attunements.
Warcaster doesn't carry the ifs/buts/maybys that are associated with the Ruby. Again, the Ruby is good, just not a perfect solution (just as Warcaster isn't perfect), and I'd maintain that Warcaster is the less imperfect of the two options.


On top of that, BB/GFB don't really come online before level 5, and don't get REALLY good until mid levels. Plus EK doesn't really get useful concentration spells 'til level 7, when it gets 2nd level spells. So it takes take a bit for War Caster to get good
That though is outright false
With EK you get access to those cantrips at level 3
Unless you are TWF or PAM (which at this level for the later won't be an option without a free feat since race is not V.Human) you've only got the single attack. The cantrips do a single attack PLUS an additional effect. before level 5 they are superior to a regular attack.
At levels 5 and 6 the attack action become generally more favoured with extra attack and missing the upcoming Warmagic feature, though it is still close enough that cleave scenario with GFB is still a contender so long as your INT mod isn't negative or 0.
With Warcaster, Booming Blade is always going to be better damage than an opportunity attack regardless of level.
You do have it right with level 7 being a decent power spike for EK's. 2nd level spell slots AND Warmagic really let you start piling on those d8's.