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Nonah_Me
2007-10-30, 06:34 PM
I've been working on a cleric/specialistwizard/Mystic Theurge character for a few weeks now, and I think I've gotten him to where I want him to be. However, I would like to ask for opinions on the cheesiness of some of my choices.


Banning Ryan
Halfling Cloistered Cleric 3 / Transmuter 3 (Future levels in Mystic Theurge)

Variants taken: Immediate Magic (Transmutation), Spontaneous Domain Casting
Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Trickery

Abilities:
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 18
Wis 16 (from 15 at 4th level)
Cha 12

Feats:
Wander's Diplomacy (because Banning was born into a trading caravan)
Craft Wonderous Item (because I plan on creating quite a few Quall's Feather Tokens)
Heighten Spell
(Future Feats: I've heard that there are feats in Complete Divine that allow you to take other domains of the god you follow. If that's true, I'm going to take them for the remainder of my diety's domains (Boccob).


Is there any inherant cheese associated with this build? I have a freind who's going the full Anima Mage route, but I think he'll be DMing anyway. This is just for presence of mind.

Thank you in advance for any comments, unless I don't get any comments, which negates the thanks. Or something.

Fizban
2007-10-30, 06:40 PM
Nothing cheesy at all there. MT is inherently weak and heighten spell isn't too useful for a wizard, not counting the diplomacy feat you've taken. If anything, you'll be underpowered, though even 3 levels behind, arcane magic is still powerful. The anima mage on the other hand, if made properly, will only lose one level of casting, and will be getting all kinds of free metamagic. Unless he takes a bunch of flavor stuff like you, you're quite likely to be overshadowed (unless you're there mostly for healbotting).

Edit: actually, I don't know what immediate magic is. But it likely won't make up for the lost caster levels and feats, power-wise.

Nonah_Me
2007-10-30, 06:43 PM
No, no healbotting. However, i think I'll do fine, as most of my freinds play non-heroic personalities. I don't think I'll be overshadowed. If anything, I'll end up being the party face, even though I'm not built for it.


As for the Anima Mage, he's full committed to the philosophy that there should not be such a thing as balance. And he's likely to be the DM in any case, as I've been DMing our games for the past few months. I need a break.

Kurald Galain
2007-10-30, 06:52 PM
If you want cheese, take the immediate magic for conjuration, and do the Precocious Apprentice trick to take Mystic Theurge earlier. Also, take a better feat than that regional one, and avoid Heighten Spell (which mainly works for spontaneous casters, not preparing ones). And don't take those extra-domain feats.

Then again, you said you didn't want cheese :smallsmile: so you're pretty much in the clear.

I find "banning" a rather strange name, though.

Chronos
2007-10-30, 06:57 PM
The Mystic Theurge's real strength is that, with two classes worth of spells (even though they lag behind a single-class caster) it's almost impossible to run out of all of your spells. So if your DM likes to throw marathons at you, with many encounters before you get a chance to rest, you'll still be tossing magic around when everyone else is spent. On the other hand, if your DM prefers to have only one or two big encounters per day, spellcasters don't have a chance to use any but their highest-level spells, and your highest-level spells are lower by virtue of your theurgeness.

lord_khaine
2007-10-30, 06:58 PM
this actualy is a fine example of anticheese.

Quick! someone get me a incantrix in this thread, so we can see what happens when they meet :smallsmile:

Guy_Whozevl
2007-10-30, 07:27 PM
Using the Cloistered Cleric may create some MAD, something that isn't the best for your build (you could use that 15 in Constitution with your bad HD). Get levels in Archevist from Heroes of Horror (there is an excerpt on WotC). It has intelligence based divine spellcasting from any divine list. This way, you have a combination of a cheesy class (Archevist) and a semi-useless class (Mystic Theruge), thus making your build uncheesy, but still viable in terms of general spellcasting.

Jack Mann
2007-10-30, 07:35 PM
this actualy is a fine example of anticheese.

Quick! someone get me a incantrix in this thread, so we can see what happens when they meet :smallsmile:

You fool! You'll destroy the internet!

Nonah_Me
2007-10-30, 08:24 PM
I find it surprising that you all figure the build to be underpowered.

(It's cool, though, because I tend to play those kinds of people. Sword and Board Tower Shield Fighter who has an int of less than 13.)

The spontaenous domain casting I figured would be the most to get me into the cheesey spot, because that means I'll be able to cast three domain's worth of spells spontaenously. At level six (Edit: of my build), that includes invis, dispel magic (I think) and a few other useful spells.

Precotious apprentice will probably be taken instead of Heighten Spell, because it fits my flavor concept. Thanks!

Temp
2007-10-30, 08:42 PM
The spontaenous domain casting I figured would be the most to get me into the cheesey spot, because that means I'll be able to cast three domain's worth of spells spontaenously. At level six (Edit: of my build), that includes invis, dispel magic (I think) and a few other useful spells.
That's not cheesy at all. And multiclassing from Cloistered Cleric hurts in so many ways... you lose caster levels, you lose skill points and you lose single-attribute dependency.

If this is cheese in your group, consider yourself a lucky DM. It's nice not having to squish players on the trick they've spend several levels developing.

Nonah_Me
2007-10-30, 08:52 PM
No, no, this isn't the type of things I have in my group. This would be what I would play. My group currently concists of a Fighter/Barbarian, Anima Mage, Rogue/Assasin, Cleric of Fharlanghn, Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berzerker, and a Generalist Gnome Wizard... named Oz.

Of the lot, only Oz has yet to have a character killed. He's jumped from so many campaign settings that I've decided he's some kind of Emmesary of Chaos.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-31, 12:58 AM
I like it. It should be a fun build to play.

shadowdemon_lord
2007-10-31, 03:41 AM
Yep, I see no cheesiness here. I'm not familiar with the cloistered cleric, but I've got to assume it's not as powerful in a fight as the cleric is, and cleric/wizard mystic theurges are not as powerful as either class taken straight. Theirs nothing that powerful in your feat selection. Empower would probably be a better choice.