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ZenHeathen
2020-08-02, 04:45 PM
I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

Anymage
2020-08-02, 04:54 PM
Are you looking for an in-universe or an out-of-universe explanation? Because ultimately for the latter, no writer has been interested enough in the concept to stat them out, playtest out the rough edges, and write them up.

MaxWilson
2020-08-02, 04:55 PM
I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

They're called Mul and they are as tall as humans but stronger and tougher. Apparently dwarf shortness is recessive.

They're primarily a Darksun thing, but there's no real reason you couldn't model one as a variant human, e.g. +1 Str/Con plus Heavy Armor Master. (Total: +2 Str, +1 Con, 3 damage resistance in heavy armor.)

JackPhoenix
2020-08-02, 04:58 PM
Because Tolkien didn't created half-dwarves for Gary Gygax to nick for that new game he was working on.

Also, Mul are a thing in Dark Sun, though that setting isn't officially supported in 5e.

johnbragg
2020-08-02, 05:09 PM
I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

Basically, half-elves and half-orcs reference gross sexual fantasies / archetypes. Half-orcs, in early editions, were always / nearly-always the result of rape, so you've got your trope right there of the (white) maiden taken forcefully and defiled by the culturally inferior, cosmetically ugly but physically dominant Evil Other. So there's that.

And D&D elves are Tolkien-based, very pretty, male teenage lust objects. (Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)

Dwarves don't ring either of those bells, so nobody much worried about statting up half-dwarves, except for the Mul in Dark Sun, as others above have noted.

CharonsHelper
2020-08-02, 05:16 PM
(Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

Tanarii
2020-08-02, 05:22 PM
They existed in Forgotten Realms per the FR wiki, and Dragonlance (Races of Ansalon 2e).

Naanomi
2020-08-02, 05:24 PM
(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)
Aasimar and Tieflings are both 2e concepts, and were both standardly playable races in Planescape

Breeding in DnD has a lot to do with mystical and not biological forces, especially the will of the creator races. Elves can breed with men because the creator gods of men are either absent or unknown (a few variations of the specifics exist); and the Elven gods didn't like to restrain their children. Likewise, Orcs and men can reproduce because the Orcish pantheon sees reproduction as another form of dominance. However, Elves and Orcs cannot mate because their Gods both oppose it based on historical grudges.

The creators of the Dwarven race are traditionalists for whom heritage and ancestry is important, and thus don't allow breeding with other races at all (outside of the races they cannot control... Outsiders and their planetouched decendents and the overwhelming power of draconic influence supersede other rules). The exception is Mul on Darksun who: A) have to be intentionally bred, B) it is sometimes implied magic is involved in the process, and C) is on one of the few Prime worlds that the Gods cannot influence at all

Luccan
2020-08-02, 05:29 PM
They existed in Forgotten Realms per the FR wiki, and Dragonlance (Races of Ansalon 2e).

I think in FR they're still mostly statted as Dwarves, though, with the reason Half-Dwarves exist in the first place apparently being fertility issues among the dwarven population of Faerun.

MrStabby
2020-08-02, 05:48 PM
Basically, half-elves and half-orcs reference gross sexual fantasies / archetypes. Half-orcs, in early editions, were always / nearly-always the result of rape, so you've got your trope right there of the (white) maiden taken forcefully and defiled by the culturally inferior, cosmetically ugly but physically dominant Evil Other. So there's that.

And D&D elves are Tolkien-based, very pretty, male teenage lust objects. (Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)

Dwarves don't ring either of those bells, so nobody much worried about statting up half-dwarves, except for the Mul in Dark Sun, as others above have noted.

Well, probaby Elrond Half Elven would be the more obvious example.



Dwarfs - well I would ask what role would they fill. But to be honest I could ask that of a LOT of the racesinD&D, not least half elves. I guess that Half X characters can establish that interbreeding is possible and onece you have that established, how many more do you need?

Frankly, I just don't think there is the demand. Half elves remain because they were already in. Half dwarfs are not added because they don't think many people want to play them. What pattern of attibuted would they have that couldn't be represented by another type of dwarf? And for the same mechanics, do we think people would prefer to be a dwarf or a hybrid? I think that there is a belief that the explanation with the stronger cultural identity will win out.

Magicspook
2020-08-02, 05:58 PM
Because dwarves just spring out of holes in the ground.

Didn't you pay attention?

Luccan
2020-08-02, 06:04 PM
Well, probaby Elrond Half Elven would be the more obvious example.



Dwarfs - well I would ask what role would they fill. But to be honest I could ask that of a LOT of the racesinD&D, not least half elves. I guess that Half X characters can establish that interbreeding is possible and onece you have that established, how many more do you need?

Frankly, I just don't think there is the demand. Half elves remain because they were already in. Half dwarfs are not added because they don't think many people want to play them. What pattern of attibuted would they have that couldn't be represented by another type of dwarf? And for the same mechanics, do we think people would prefer to be a dwarf or a hybrid? I think that there is a belief that the explanation with the stronger cultural identity will win out.

It's notable that for most of D&D (really just until the 5e Eberron reprint of Orcs), Half-Orc was more a way to play/have a less stupid Orc. Avoiding any accusations of real world issues, there was very little difference between the two beyond Half-Orcs being slightly weaker and a good deal brighter. They actually have very little in common with their Human parent. Half-Elves, meanwhile, were basically able to act like a Human and an Elf, though were never quite as good as either (again, until 5e). Most hybrid races follow the Half-Orc model, so unless you're asserting real differences from their non-human heritage there's probably not much point in putting together a Half-Dwarf. Just make a Dwarf and call them a half.

Oh, there's also the Derro, but they've never been playable and they don't seem to be half-dwarves in every edition, but they were in 3rd. They're also all completely insane.

MaxWilson
2020-08-02, 06:10 PM
In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

Wasn't Aragorn something like ninety years old at the time of The Two Towers? He definitely does not age like a vanilla human.


Aasimar and Tieflings are both 2e concepts, and were both standardly playable races in Planescape


AD&D Tieflings though are not necessarily fiendish in ancestry or origin, just plane-touched. IIRC you can have a Tiefling born to two vanilla humans. (I'm not sure about Aasimar.)


It's notable that for most of D&D (really just until the 5e Eberron reprint of Orcs), Half-Orc was more a way to play/have a less stupid Orc. Avoiding any accusations of real world issues, there was very little difference between the two beyond Half-Orcs being slightly weaker and a good deal brighter. They actually have very little in common with their Human parent. (A) Half-Elves, meanwhile, were basically able to act like a Human and an Elf, though were never quite as good as either (again, until 5e). Most hybrid races follow the Half-Orc model, so unless you're asserting real differences from their non-human heritage there's probably not much point in putting together a Half-Dwarf. Just make a Dwarf and call them a half.

Oh, there's also the Derro, but they've never been playable and they don't seem to be half-dwarves in every edition, but they were in 3rd. They're also all completely insane.

(A) They're better than either at multiclassing. Half-elves in AD&D (2nd ed.) have more multiclass combos open to them than anyone else including unique combos such as Fighter/Mage/Cleric, Fighter/Mage/Thief, and Fighter/Mage/Druid.

ZenHeathen
2020-08-02, 06:35 PM
...the overwhelming power of draconic influence supersede other rules...

Now I'm wondering about dragon/dwarf hybrids...

Luccan
2020-08-02, 06:37 PM
Now I'm wondering about dragon/dwarf hybrids...

Technically possible in multiple ways throughout the editions, but I feel it should be noted in 3e when the core races all got unique dragon hybrids the Dwarf one explicitly was a magical response to being enslaved by Red Dragons and not a result of purposeful intermingling by either party.

Edit: Scratch that, I just checked Dragon Magic and it gives multiple theories including interbreeding. Still, I like the idea of them hating Red Dragons so much they developed a resistance to fire

Palanan
2020-08-02, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by MaxWilson
Wasn't Aragorn something like ninety years old at the time of The Two Towers? He definitely does not age like a vanilla human.

His age is given as 87 in one of the scenes from the extended edition. The blood of Númenor granted lifespans past two hundred years, so at 87 Aragorn was in his prime.

In fact, "Aragorn indeed lived to be two hundred and ten years old, longer than any of his line since King Arvegil; but in Aragorn Elessar the dignity of the kings of old was renewed." (From Appendix A in Return of the King.)

.

Trask
2020-08-02, 07:08 PM
Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.

LibraryOgre
2020-08-02, 07:23 PM
Three campaign settings, three different answers:

1) Dark Sun: Half-dwarves are muls. They are sterile, 6' tall, hairless and have endurance out the wazoo... a 2e Mul could carry on a conversation for 9-21 days, and run, without rest, for 33-45 hours.

2) Kingdoms of Kalamar. Dwarves are not able to reproduce with other races.

3) Forgotten Realms: Per Dwarves' Deep, half-dwarves are simply dwarves. They're a bit taller than full blooded dwarves, but they're standard dwarves in all other ways.

Pseudo answer, as well: Some sources say that gully dwarves on Krynn are human/dwarf crossbreeds; others say dwarf/gnome crossbreeds.

Ganryu
2020-08-02, 07:34 PM
Ever seen Mr. Welch's list of 2500 things he's not allowed to do in DnD?

"224. I cannot insinuate elf chicks are all easy, even though you never hear about a half gnome do you?"

Chronos
2020-08-03, 07:29 AM
Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
Elf: To a human, everything must look like a girl.
Human: What?
Elf: Half-orcs, half-ogres…
Human: …shut up.
Dwarf: Half-dragons, half-kobolds.
Human: I said shut up!
Elf: …
Dwarf: …
Human: …
Elf: Centaurs…


And strictly speaking, Elrond was 3/8 human, 9/16 elf, and 1/16 angelic. But both he and his brother were required to choose to count as strictly one or the other: Elrond chose elf and Elros chose human (and then lived for 500 years).

Hytheter
2020-08-03, 07:50 AM
a 2e Mul could carry on a conversation for 9-21 days

That is a very specific and niche ability...

diplomancer
2020-08-03, 07:51 AM
Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't). Aragorn is fully human (there are more than 60 generations separating him from his nearest Elvish ancestor), with some special traits.
There is a strong indication (but no confirmation), that Saruman created Half-Orcs and Quarter-Orcs.

LibraryOgre
2020-08-03, 08:12 AM
That is a very specific and niche ability...

It was a bit less niche than that... it was doing anything of extremely light fatigue, and included walking unencumbered. They could do it for a number of days equal to their Constitution.

loki_ragnarock
2020-08-03, 08:35 AM
Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.

This brings a smile to my lips because Gygax pretty frequently got flack from the West Coast hippies who popularized the brand that x, y, or zed must be wrong because it didn't track with Tolkien. Trolls not turning to stone upon exposure to sunlight being a key example; D&D's trolls are stolen from an entirely different literary source, as Gygax was a collector of pulp fiction at one point in his life.

The game's origins steal from way more than Tolkien. I suspect that you could read 100 pulp fantasy stories published pre 1970 and never encounter the introduction of a half dwarf character. It's not until D&D starts doing more than "finding inspiration" in the relevant pop culture and begins creating and contributing to that pop culture that the concept of half dwarves really starts getting explored, to my (non-academic and incomplete) knowledge.

It's less that it was a concept that couldn't be stolen from Tolkien, and more that it couldn't be stolen from anyone. It had to be created... and they did just that way back in the arcane past of 2nd edition with Dark Sun. Which is kind of remarkable, maybe even something to think about; at what point did D&D really stop emulating and instead start creating and shaping the culture?
Any pop culture historians want to weigh in on that one?

Drache64
2020-08-03, 08:43 AM
In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

I didn't read all the comments yet but did anyone else point out that Arwen was also a half-elf as well as Elrond. It's why she was even allowed to choose a mortal life.

johnbragg
2020-08-03, 09:01 AM
Which is kind of remarkable, maybe even something to think about; at what point did D&D really stop emulating and instead start creating and shaping the culture?
Any pop culture historians want to weigh in on that one?

Definitely by the 1980s. Probably as soon as people started running campaigns that left the home megadungeon.

Do you count the high level of kitchen-sink pastiche as innovative in itself? Fantasy dragons, sci-fi tech (Barrier Peaks 1980), brain-eating psychic squid-men(1974), Judeo-Christian(-Zoroastrian-Gnostic etc) demonology, and rules for Renaissance firearms (present in 2e, not sure about 1e)? Or is that sufficiently like having pulp heroes encounter Beastmen of the Green Forest in one book, Lost City of Atlanteans Clockwork Robots in the next book and then mummies in Egyptian pyramids a book or two later?

Heck, underground matriarchal spider-worshipping sadomasochists with wierd-ass magic powers is probably a new combination.

deljzc
2020-08-03, 09:05 AM
I have tried to explain sexuality and procreation for all the races to reflect their lifespans.

I mean, we know elves CAN'T procreate like humans or there would just be a million elves around if elves were childbearing for like 250 years.

So in my "world", I just kind of casually spin racial procreation a bit different:

1. Female elves CHOOSE to ovulate. It is not a cycle. It is not all the time. Pregnancy to female elves is complete choice, not random.

2. For this reason, half-elves almost always come from male elves and female humans. Obviously, if there is a loving relationship between a female elf and male human, they can elect to have a baby, but that is rare. Most situations involve a male elf (and elves have a lot of sex) having relations with a female human and "forgetting" that pregnancy for humans is random.

3. Female dwarves ovulate VERY RARELY. This could be because female dwarves have high levels of testosterone and the estrogen/testosterone levels kind of are constantly at war with each other. A female dwarf has to kind of go through a cycle of becoming "less male" and "more female" to become fertile. This is a rare, but exciting event, in dwarf clans. If this happens to multiple females in a clan at the same time, it might portend an upcoming war or conflict for the clan (thus the need to "repopulate" the expected losses). Since female dwarves know this is happening to them, it is important (ritually and for the clan), that they choose a strong mate for the benefit of the clan. Since everything is about the "clan" to dwarves, the idea of a plutonic husband/wife relationship isn't all that strong. It is more important for the clans survival that when a female dwarf ovulates, a good mate is chosen for the benefit of the clan. There could be all sorts of ritualistic ideas on how female dwarves choose their mating partner.

4. Since male dwarves, normally, are asexual/non-sexual, it is very rare for male dwarves to lose control and have sex with human females, thus - no half-dwarves.

Seclora
2020-08-03, 03:53 PM
Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't). Aragorn is fully human (there are more than 60 generations separating him from his nearest Elvish ancestor), with some special traits.
There is a strong indication (but no confirmation), that Saruman created Half-Orcs and Quarter-Orcs.

They have to choose one or the other because Humans and Elves don't share an afterlife, so the cosmological bureaucracy needs to assign you to one or the other. The 'Doom of Man' is a part of their inherent freedom, and even though Elrond has chosen the Elven Afterlife, his children must choose for themselves. Elros chose Humanity, and the dominant Human Freedom is satisfied and need not reassert itself throughout the generations.
I think. Tolkien wrote a lot on the subject and I have not read all of it.

As for Half-Orcs, yeah, Saruman did cause that to happen, and the implications are not good. His intention was to make stronger Orcs who could fight even in Sunlight, and I always got the impression that this required a lot of magical experimentation to make possible.



As for Half-Dwarves, I have always drawn the conclusion that Dwarves just don't have the kind of libido most Humans do, and don't find Humans attractive in general. For their part, Humans have a hard time finding Dwarf women, and even when they do the Dwarves would retaliate with undiscerning brutality, and also raise any ensuing child as a Dwarf, who would likely never be the wiser for it. I'm sure that exceptions exist, but at an incredibly low rate.

Zevox
2020-08-03, 04:21 PM
Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.
This is basically my understanding, yeah. If you're looking to Tolkien for inspiration at all, you don't need to look far to run across references to Half-Elves, since Elrond is explicitly referred to as Half-Elven, and Aragorn and Arwen are a Human and Elf (as far as any normal reader understands) who marry at the end of LotR; and along the way you run into implications that the Uruk-Hai were created by cross-breeding Orcs with Humans, so there's your Half-Orcs. Certainly easily explains why those are the two most common Half-breed races in fantasy, in any case.

Ironically, that actually doesn't happen all that often in Tolkien's writing - there's literally only three instances of a Human and Elf mating like that in the entire history of Arda. It's just that each one is a story of some significance to it, so they kind of stand out.


Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't).
No, they're still technically Half-Elves (hence the effects of Elven blood on Aragorn's family even after Elros chose to be human, for instance), they just need to choose to be counted among one of the races due to each having significatly different status within Arda in terms of mortality and the afterlife. Elves are immortal but their spirits cannot leave the world, while Humans are mortal and their spirits depart the world entirely to join its creator after death, and will supposedly participate in the creation of another at some point. There's not really an in-between option there, you're either getting one fate or the other, so the Valar ultimately had to get them to choose. (Which does beg the question of what happened to Dior, the one Half-Elf who was already dead before the Valar offered the rest that choice, but it's never mentioned.)

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-08-03, 05:00 PM
I remember seeing guidance somewhere for creating various hybrid races, but I can't remember where. The 3E DMG includes a sample half-human elf, which trades Favored Class: Any and skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information for Favored Class: Wizard and elven weapon proficiencies. And I'm almost sure I remember seeing somewhere in 3E something about modifying player races that were raised in other communities - maybe it was an elf raised by dwarves that traded weapon proficiencies for the dwarf's favored enemy bonuses and stonecunning.

Lysimarchos
2020-08-03, 05:01 PM
Because sexy dwarven women only recently became popular.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-03, 05:32 PM
Because sexy dwarven women only recently became popular.

So we'll be getting half dwarves.. soon?

Damon_Tor
2020-08-03, 07:10 PM
In one of my settings, there are no female dwarves at all. The dwarven reproductive cycle is far too different from humans' for interbreeding to be possible.


Upon occasion an adult dwarf will, in a time of peace while he is safe in his holdfast, find himself in a particularly gregarious mood, a hormonal response. At this time he will feel compelled to surround himself with good friends and together drink a great deal of ale.
Dwarven ale, drunk in large quantities, induces gamete production in dwarves. Dwarves produce sperm which is released into their urine, though the gregarious dwarf produces a single gamete which is a hybrid, effectively a large sperm the size of an ovum.
The dwarves' urine washes down into the caverns beneath the holdfast. Combined with other waste, this feeds fungal pools where the yeast from their ale develops into large cysts. Here the urine of the dwarves will mingle together, and the super-sperm joins with one of the sperm released by one of the other dwarves. Thus fertilized, the super sperm will then implant itself into a fungal cyst and will begin to grow into an infant dwarf, fed by the cyst.
It takes nearly a full year for the fetus to mature and tear his way from the cyst. This infant dwarf is hairy, already in possession of a thick beard, where spores from the fungal cyst find safe transport back to the holdfast. The infant dwarf instinctively climbs from the fungal pool up to the holdfast.
In the days prior to his son's arrival, his father will have been struck with a deep longing for a son, another hormonal cue. In many dwarf cultures, this longing drives him to pray to his God to bless him with one. In any case, he begins to prepare his home to receive the infant.
When the infant arrives, his father is eagerly awaiting him. By instinct, the dwarf is driven to bathe his son in the fermentation vat of ale, which repopulates the yeast therein with the spores from the infant's beard.

Klorox
2020-08-03, 07:29 PM
Because humans and elves were created by Eru Iluvatar and dwarves were created by Aulë.

Anonymouswizard
2020-08-03, 07:37 PM
Basic answer: because the original set of races was cribbed from Tolkien, and I think half-elves were added to suit that crowd.

Longer, more setting-based answer: even without giving dwarves nonhuman reproductive biology, we have a few things to consider. One factor might be that dwarves tend to have really low fertility, possibly significantly lower than elves*, it's possible that only a fraction of dwarves are actually fertile. Another might be the traditionalism of dwarven society, you do not fool around before marriage and doing so gets you punished (which would make half-dwarves rare enough that most people haven't heard of them). There might also be proportionately more dwarves not into the opposite gender, which makes creating half dwarves somewhat harder but again, not impossible.

And dwarves just might not be fertile with humans in this particular setting. There's no rule saying they have to be.

But a traditionalist society that tends to be presented as having low birth rates anyway? Yeah, I don't think that society would look fondly on messing around with humans.

But for a take I'm planning to use in an actual setting? Dwarves are physically mature at roughly the same age as humans (fudge to 20), and their reproductive biology is almost exactly the same. However, despite having a longer lifespan they don't have a longer fertile period, dwarven women go through their equivalent of the menopause at the same time and dwarven men's fertility begins to significantly decline at a similar point. Dwarven lives tend to include a thirty year period where dwarves freely have sex with each other and have children, who tend to be adopted by one of their grandparents, before settling down into 'adulthood' with a monogamous pairing sometime in their fifties.Dwarven pregnancies last a year and a half, which means most dwarves don't have as many kids as humans but it's balanced out by the children being slightly more resilient. Half-dwarves are incredibly rare because by the time dwarves start venturing outside of the hold they're unlikely to be created, but they do happen. Primarily with gnomes and halflings more than with other races, but occasionally with humans (which more has to do with cultural ties than anything).

* With a 4 point CON difference in earlier editions primitive dwarves would have likely lived longer than primitive elves due to better resistance to poison and disease, and 5e only lessens this by getting rid of the elf's CON penalty. Lots more untimely deaths for early elves than dwarves.

Luccan
2020-08-03, 08:16 PM
Basic answer: because the original set of races was cribbed from Tolkien, and I think half-elves were added to suit that crowd.

Longer, more setting-based answer: even without giving dwarves nonhuman reproductive biology, we have a few things to consider. One factor might be that dwarves tend to have really low fertility, possibly significantly lower than elves*, it's possible that only a fraction of dwarves are actually fertile. Another might be the traditionalism of dwarven society, you do not fool around before marriage and doing so gets you punished (which would make half-dwarves rare enough that most people haven't heard of them). There might also be proportionately more dwarves not into the opposite gender, which makes creating half dwarves somewhat harder but again, not impossible.


Low Dwarven fertility is apparently the reason "half-dwarves" exist in FR: the kids turn out more dwarf-y than not, but fertility and low numbers of female dwarves means that dwarves capable of reproducing can't be picky if they don't want dwarves to stop being a thing

C-Dude
2020-08-03, 08:44 PM
Because Tolkien didn't created half-dwarves for Gary Gygax to nick for that new game he was working on.

Also, Mul are a thing in Dark Sun, though that setting isn't officially supported in 5e.Huh... I always thought Tolkien's hobbits WERE half-dwarves... or descended from them, anyway. That'd explain their penchant for living underground but working fields, why they were called "halflings", and why the hobbits were getting taller--dilution of the old blood (Samwise was taller than Frodo, and Pippin taller than Samwise).

Warwick
2020-08-03, 08:47 PM
Dwarves don't reproduce sexually. New dwarves are carved from stone and then animated with a blessing from a priest of Moradin.

Zevox
2020-08-03, 11:14 PM
Huh... I always thought Tolkien's hobbits WERE half-dwarves... or descended from them, anyway. That'd explain their penchant for living underground but working fields, why they were called "halflings", and why the hobbits were getting taller--dilution of the old blood (Samwise was taller than Frodo, and Pippin taller than Samwise).
There's no official explanation for the origin of Hobbits in Arda. If memory serves there was something somewhere that implied they may be an offshoot of humans, but even that wasn't definitive, just a possibility. Kind of like Tom Bombadil, where Hobbits came from is one of those things Tolkien left a mystery.

There was never anything implying that there was any such thing as a Half-Dwarf in Tolkien's works, though, so that'd be an extremely unlikely explanation for their origins, considering how insular Dwarven society tended to be in Arda. Also doesn't necessarily make sense physically, either, considering Hobbits were shorter than Dwarves, not in between Dwarves and humans.

C-Dude
2020-08-03, 11:45 PM
Also doesn't necessarily make sense physically, either, considering Hobbits were shorter than Dwarves, not in between Dwarves and humans.Height needn't be intermediary. If you consider that Hobbits have a lithe human physique rather than a muscular dwarven one, their reduced height could be a reflection of the reduced muscle mass. And I seem to recall that it was said that the hobbits were gradually becoming taller, and that one day they might be indistinguishable from men.

A lot of hobbit culture is intermediary, especially their aversion to leaving their shire (like the dwarves rarely leave their mountain) and the aforementioned "half-underground" living arrangements (a dwarf would never consider farming, but a human would). They're also more sociable than dwarves, which is definitely a human trait.

Granted, I haven't read those books in two decades. Tolkien was pretty focused on the elves, so we're left to extrapolate our own conclusions about the other denizens of the world.

NorthernPhoenix
2020-08-04, 05:38 AM
As you've probably seen now, a number of settings have half-dwarfs. They're just not very cool, and therefor not featured a lot.

diplomancer
2020-08-04, 06:36 AM
Height needn't be intermediary. If you consider that Hobbits have a lithe human physique rather than a muscular dwarven one, their reduced height could be a reflection of the reduced muscle mass. And I seem to recall that it was said that the hobbits were gradually becoming taller, and that one day they might be indistinguishable from men.

A lot of hobbit culture is intermediary, especially their aversion to leaving their shire (like the dwarves rarely leave their mountain) and the aforementioned "half-underground" living arrangements (a dwarf would never consider farming, but a human would). They're also more sociable than dwarves, which is definitely a human trait.

Granted, I haven't read those books in two decades. Tolkien was pretty focused on the elves, so we're left to extrapolate our own conclusions about the other denizens of the world.

No, Hobbits are gradually getting smaller


Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure. They seldom now reach three feet; but they have dwindled, they say, and in ancient days they were taller. According to the Red Book, Bandobras Took (Bullroarer), son of Isengrim the Second, was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old; but that curious matter is dealt with in this book..

Those two famous characters are, of course, Merry and Pippin, who got larger by drinking Entdraughts. Pippin, IIRC, is explicitily mentioned as being smaller than the others before drinking it.

Chronos
2020-08-04, 08:11 AM
Quoth Drache64:

I didn't read all the comments yet but did anyone else point out that Arwen was also a half-elf as well as Elrond. It's why she was even allowed to choose a mortal life.
Debatable. That's certainly what she wanted, but there's no evidence that she was actually granted it. The children of Elros didn't have any such choice, and in fact resented their father's decision, and when Arwen did eventually die, it was of grief, which is something that elves can die of but humans can't.

Arwen's great-great-grandmother, Luthien, was granted her wish to be counted as human, so she could spend eternity with Beren her husband. But Luthien was an extraordinary case all around, even by all-the-history-of-the-World standards, and didn't have any human ancestry at all, being half elf and half angelic.

And it's not from Tolkien, but some D&D sourcebooks back in the day (2nd edition, at least) implied that some halflings had a trace of dwarf in their family trees (though no mention was made of any that had more than a trace).

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-08-04, 09:32 AM
There's no official explanation for the origin of Hobbits in Arda. If memory serves there was something somewhere that implied they may be an offshoot of humans, but even that wasn't definitive, just a possibility. Kind of like Tom Bombadil, where Hobbits came from is one of those things Tolkien left a mystery.

Hobbits themselves have no legends or stories concerning their existence before they settled in the Shire (at least, the ones in the Shire don't). Early in Fellowship, Tolkien says they've lost their origin stories. However, there's clearly kinship with men; the elves and ents don't remember or know them, but their language is very similar to Rohirric. Also early in Fellowship, Tolkein writes:

"It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did. But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time, and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own history, in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all."

In a footnote to letter 131 (https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/writing/letters/letter-milton-waldman.html), he writes, with emphasis mine:

"**** The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves) – hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and Little Folk. They are entirely without non-human powers, but are represented as being more in touch with 'nature' (the soil and other living things, plants and animals), and abnormally, for humans, free from ambition or greed of wealth. They are made small (little more than half human stature, but dwindling as the years pass) partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain unimaginative parochial man – though not with either the smallness or the savageness of Swift, and mostly to show up, in creatures of very small physical power, the amazing and unexpected heroism of ordinary men 'at a pinch'."


Debatable. That's certainly what she wanted, but there's no evidence that she was actually granted it. The children of Elros didn't have any such choice, and in fact resented their father's decision, and when Arwen did eventually die, it was of grief, which is something that elves can die of but humans can't.

Arwen's great-great-grandmother, Luthien, was granted her wish to be counted as human, so she could spend eternity with Beren her husband. But Luthien was an extraordinary case all around, even by all-the-history-of-the-World standards, and didn't have any human ancestry at all, being half elf and half angelic.

And it's not from Tolkien, but some D&D sourcebooks back in the day (2nd edition, at least) implied that some halflings had a trace of dwarf in their family trees (though no mention was made of any that had more than a trace).

Arwen specifically says "mine is the choice of Lúthien". And that choice is to pass on to the something else that awaits men but not elves, and it involved specific convincing of Mandos, who in Dungeons and Dragon terms is the God of Fate. So it's a bit less that Lúthien is counted as human and more that she's given a special pass to do whatever the hell she wants.

Ignimortis
2020-08-04, 10:54 AM
I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

Seen plenty of half-dwarves back in the day. You just have to swing an axe hard enough to go all the way through.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-04, 04:17 PM
Personally I love the idea of templates, it's a shame that 5e has so few, but a half-human template would be cool!

LibraryOgre
2020-08-04, 05:58 PM
Huh... I always thought Tolkien's hobbits WERE half-dwarves... or descended from them, anyway. That'd explain their penchant for living underground but working fields, why they were called "halflings", and why the hobbits were getting taller--dilution of the old blood (Samwise was taller than Frodo, and Pippin taller than Samwise).

AD&D halflings had three subraces, two of which were implied to have descent from elves and dwarves.

DeadMech
2020-08-04, 06:26 PM
I've heard one source I go to for fun interesting dnd lore say that Halflings are a sort of amalgamation of interbreeding between dwarves, elves and humans. Which... I can't say I've seen anything official but hey why not.

Cyclops08
2020-08-04, 06:37 PM
Why Aren't There Half-Dwarves?

To quote Bilbo discussing cooking with the trolls, "Have you smelt them?"

Zevox
2020-08-04, 06:47 PM
Hobbits themselves have no legends or stories concerning their existence before they settled in the Shire (at least, the ones in the Shire don't). Early in Fellowship, Tolkien says they've lost their origin stories. However, there's clearly kinship with men; the elves and ents don't remember or know them, but their language is very similar to Rohirric. Also early in Fellowship, Tolkein writes:

"It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did. But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time, and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own history, in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all."

In a footnote to letter 131 (https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/writing/letters/letter-milton-waldman.html), he writes, with emphasis mine:

"**** The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves) – hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Folk and Little Folk. They are entirely without non-human powers, but are represented as being more in touch with 'nature' (the soil and other living things, plants and animals), and abnormally, for humans, free from ambition or greed of wealth. They are made small (little more than half human stature, but dwindling as the years pass) partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain unimaginative parochial man – though not with either the smallness or the savageness of Swift, and mostly to show up, in creatures of very small physical power, the amazing and unexpected heroism of ordinary men 'at a pinch'."
Huh, interesting. I'm guessing the former is what I was thinking of in my previous post - the latter I was completely unaware of, not having read Tolkien's letters. Good to know.

RedWarlock
2020-08-04, 06:57 PM
The game's origins steal from way more than Tolkien. I suspect that you could read 100 pulp fantasy stories published pre 1970 and never encounter the introduction of a half dwarf character. It's not until D&D starts doing more than "finding inspiration" in the relevant pop culture and begins creating and contributing to that pop culture that the concept of half dwarves really starts getting explored, to my (non-academic and incomplete) knowledge.

It's less that it was a concept that couldn't be stolen from Tolkien, and more that it couldn't be stolen from anyone. It had to be created... and they did just that way back in the arcane past of 2nd edition with Dark Sun.

The funny thing is, CS Lewis had half-dwarfs back in Narnia. Prince Caspian had a few, including the tutor Cornelius.

So why didn't that get copied out for D&D at any point?

Grod_The_Giant
2020-08-04, 07:24 PM
The funny thing is, CS Lewis had half-dwarfs back in Narnia. Prince Caspian had a few, including the tutor Cornelius.

So why didn't that get copied out for D&D at any point?
Because Narnia is all Christian, and D&D, as we all know, is about converting the innocent youth to worship Satan. Narnia references would completely defeat the point!

/sarcasm

Anonymouswizard
2020-08-04, 09:28 PM
Personally I love the idea of templates, it's a shame that 5e has so few, but a half-human template would be cool!

Because it would be quite hard to do.

Honestly, if you want a system where any race can bang any race and successfully sprog, you want something along the lines of Fantasy AGE where the races are intentionally created so part of them can be split for part of another race. It's not amazing, but it does allow Halfling-Draak (think dragonborn) crossbreeds or even half-oreans if you want to be a fantasy cyborg. You could port that into D&D by rewriting the races to make them all have their ability score bonus, size and speed, one or two racial traits, and a subrace which gives a +1 abiolity bonus and one or two more traits, to make a half elf you play a human with an elven subrace or an elf with a human subrace (and ideally you then have Culture giving a third layer and Upbringing/Background a forth).

Seclora
2020-08-04, 09:41 PM
The funny thing is, CS Lewis had half-dwarfs back in Narnia. Prince Caspian had a few, including the tutor Cornelius.

So why didn't that get copied out for D&D at any point?

Honestly, I really think it's the talking animals. They've fallen heavily out of favor in fantasy and are widely seen as childish. It may also be the Lamppost, a thing which Tolkien had told C.S. Lewis no proper work of fantasy could ever contain, on account of its anachronism.


This is an excellent question and merits further consideration though, so I'll probably come back with more thoughts later. Narnia really does give us a lot to work with in terms of fantasy world building and theme-centric storytelling.

Anonymouswizard
2020-08-04, 09:44 PM
It may also be the Lamppost, a thing which Tolkien had told C.S. Lewis no proper work of fantasy could ever contain, on account of its anachronism.

Aren't they in the first edition of The Hobbit?

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-08-04, 09:58 PM
Honestly, I really think it's the talking animals. They've fallen heavily out of favor in fantasy and are widely seen as childish. It may also be the Lamppost, a thing which Tolkien had told C.S. Lewis no proper work of fantasy could ever contain, on account of its anachronism.


This is an excellent question and merits further consideration though, so I'll probably come back with more thoughts later. Narnia really does give us a lot to work with in terms of fantasy world building and theme-centric storytelling.

I think you're close, but I think it's that the Narnia series is seen as a classic of children's literature (never mind that it transcends that label) and Lord of the Rings is a classic of literature without any qualifiers, save, perhaps, fantasy. The protagonists and heroes of the Narnia books are all children, even when they're grown-ups like Edmund and Lucy in The Horse and His Boy. One theme that runs through all of them is growth into adult responsibilities and an adult understanding of the world. This is perhaps not a world, as great as it is, that a group of wargamers in their twenties and thirties would have looked to for inspiration. I struggle to imagine the wargamers at GenCon figuring out how to use the early Chainmail rules to re-fight the Battle of the Stone Tables or Peter's duel with the Telemarine. The Narnia books were aimed at a younger audience, too, and Gygax was in his early twenties when The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe was released, and 28 when the series ended. Again, it's much easier for me to imagine a mid-twenties Gygax pouring over Fellowship of the Ring than The Horse and His Boy at the same age.

The Hobbit is also aimed at children, and I don't see it having major influence on D&D either. Spiders don't have a particular weakness to insulting songs, nor do they talk, usually; trolls don't turn to stone in daylight, they're more like the hybridized trolls of The Return of the King; elves aren't mischievous woodland sprites who sing nonsense rhymes and dance in the meadows, happy and gay. Even dwarves, I think, are much more influenced by Gimli and the Mines of Moria than by the Company of Thorin. I expect a dwarf who played the harp and wore a sky-blue hood might get some odd looks. Likewise, dwarves are hammer-and-axe users, not swordsdwarfs.


Aren't they in the first edition of The Hobbit?

I don't think so; Bilbo has a mechanical clock, though, and lights his pipe with matches, which aren't mentioned in Lord of the Rings, to my knowledge. Gimli lights his fires with flint and tinder.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-04, 11:13 PM
It's a bit of a shame, all this talk of Narnia has brought back a lot of memories, it was effectively what I continuously read for most of my younger childhood and it certainly had a much larger influence on me than LOTR (Even though that too had a fairly large influence).

Mad_Saulot
2020-08-04, 11:18 PM
Its never come up in my games but i have considered it, I would rule that the female parent determines the race of the child, keeps it simple.

Dark Sun was an interesting concept but ultimately uninspiring world story wise, you can only romp through an endless wasteland so many times before it becomes repetitive, worlds based on linear concepts are never going to have much longevity, other similar concepts include world spanning cities and other extreme biomes, variation is essential to any world that expects long term usage, which is why Forgotten Realms wins every time, Faerun/Toril is easily the best most varied world out there without being higgledy-piggledy like Oerth/Greyhawk, and Ebberon is a gimmick that uses magic to essentially subvert the fantasy element of DnD to create "Technology".

This is just my opinion of course and im sure fans of those worlds would disagree. But Forgotten Realms possesses everything you need for a lifetime of play.

deljzc
2020-08-05, 08:14 AM
In my mythology as well, Moradin created dwarves, humans and gnomes all at the same time and made them distinctly different species (thus no interbreeding).

Elves and orcs came about from the clash between Corellon and Gruumsh.

Maybe only humans have the ability to mix with orcs and elves then.

Halflings just came a lot later in creation as an attempt to "improve humans" (because they were so violent and prone to war) by the halfling creation god.

I mean, there are a hundred ways to spin why not into your history/mythology/science. And there are a hundred ways to allow or justify it.

Honestly, just do whatever makes for a cool world to play in and inspires you and your players' imaginations.

LordNibbler
2020-08-05, 10:21 AM
Doesn’t Gimli say it is very difficult to visually differentiate dwarf men from dwarf women? I imagine after a few embarrassing incidents, humans gave up. (“It’s the beards!”)

Naanomi
2020-08-05, 10:28 AM
I don't think so; Bilbo has a mechanical clock, though, and lights his pipe with matches, which aren't mentioned in Lord of the Rings, to my knowledge. Gimli lights his fires with flint and tinder.
The dwarves also have clarinets (an 18th century instrument); and Gandfalf's fireworks passed 'like an express train'

johnbragg
2020-08-05, 10:32 AM
Because Narnia is all Christian, and D&D, as we all know, is about converting the innocent youth to worship Satan. Narnia references would completely defeat the point!

/sarcasm

To be a little bit more serious, CS Lewis was generally less "metal" than Tolkien, never mind pulp sword-and-sorcery and science-fantasy. Your most gameable CS Lewis content isn't Narnia, it's turning the Screwtape Letters into game mechanics relevant to a subtle BBEG.

LibraryOgre
2020-08-05, 10:41 AM
Because it would be quite hard to do.


I'm not so sure about it; I think you would have to design a few races differently, but the basic framework for the races with prominent subraces would support it.

So, imagine, that "Elf" had a "Half-human" subrace. It might give you a +1 to Charisma, and proficiency in two skills.

Dwarf might have half-gnome subrace; it increases your Intelligence by 1 and the ability to speak with burrowing mammals.

Design things a bit differently, and you might have Race (which determines some broad characteristics), Subrace (which might be a half-race), and Background. You might have a Human with the Half-Elf subrace, an Elf with the Half-Human subrace, and both of them might have the Entertainer background, leading to somewhat similar... but not identical... characters that can TOTALLY do a recreation of the Parent Trap.

I think Pathfinder 2e did something similar, but I am not sure; I haven't dived into it, since I don't want to.

Amdy_vill
2020-08-05, 10:48 AM
half dwarves do make appearances in dnd medie, i even think 3.5 had stats for them, i know 3.5 had stats for dwelves(half elf half dwarf). I don 't really know why they never cough on as a core race.

C-Dude
2020-08-05, 11:22 AM
Because it would be quite hard to do.
I found this when I was doing a random search for dragon hybrids (not investigation for this thread, but the result is relevant here).

https://stepintorpgs.wordpress.com/2018/03/31/bring-on-the-dwelfs-mixed-race-options-in-dungeons-dragons-5e/

Looks like somebody already looked into a hybridization template system; they broke the 5e race templates into left and right components and you have to pick one of each. The neat thing about the system this individual proposes is that if you pick the left and right of the same race, it ends up (almost) exactly as if you didn't apply a template at all.


--
Thanks to QuickLyRaiNbow for the info about Tolkien's hobbits, and thanks to Mark Hall for the info about AD&D's halflings. I think my impressions about halflings came from the latter (and my memory clipped away the elven roots stuff because Half Elves were already covered). I'll probably keep thinking of them as half dwarves (and keep depicting them as such in my games), but your information is very helpful context.

Misterwhisper
2020-08-05, 11:57 AM
I would assume it is because ladies don’t tend to like short, hairy, stocky guys, and dwarf ladies are the wrong kind of stacked.

LibraryOgre
2020-08-05, 12:31 PM
I would assume it is because ladies don’t tend to like short, hairy, stocky guys, and dwarf ladies are the wrong kind of stacked.

Dwarven women are beautiful lovers. (https://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2013/10/love-songs-about-dwarves.html)


Dwarven women, are beautiful lovers
Dwarven women, they understand
I've been around some, and I have discovered
That dwarven women know just how to please a man.
(Verse)
Everybody seems to love those human women
Buck eighteen on up to one twenty-five
Well I love 'em too, but I'm tellin' you
Dwarves know to really love, and boy it sure is fine
(CHORUS)
(Verse)
So baby don't you worry about growin' whiskers
Those elven girls ain't got nothin' on you
Cause it takes some whiskey, to get 'em frisky
And frisky dwarves may just be the ones to teach 'em a thing or two.
(Chorus)

HappyDaze
2020-08-05, 01:28 PM
Dwarves don't reproduce sexually. New dwarves are carved from stone and then animated with a blessing from a priest of Moradin.

Exalted's Mountain Folk did this. Except they were life forces in the stone and then that stone was carved away to reveal them. Workers and Warriors were very dwarf-like, but Artisans were human-proportioned and pretty super-awesome in almost every way.

Misterwhisper
2020-08-05, 01:33 PM
Dwarven women are beautiful lovers. (https://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2013/10/love-songs-about-dwarves.html)


Dwarven women, are beautiful lovers
Dwarven women, they understand
I've been around some, and I have discovered
That dwarven women know just how to please a man.
(Verse)
Everybody seems to love those human women
Buck eighteen on up to one twenty-five
Well I love 'em too, but I'm tellin' you
Dwarves know to really love, and boy it sure is fine
(CHORUS)
(Verse)
So baby don't you worry about growin' whiskers
Those elven girls ain't got nothin' on you
Cause it takes some whiskey, to get 'em frisky
And frisky dwarves may just be the ones to teach 'em a thing or two.
(Chorus)

Dangit, now I want to play a Hill-billy dwarf country music singer with a banjo...

LibraryOgre
2020-08-05, 01:43 PM
Dangit, now I want to play a Hill-billy dwarf country music singer with a banjo...

I openly regret the lack of "gnome country" in popular music. You have metal inspired by fantasy, where's my country song about being an elf or a gnome?

QuickLyRaiNbow
2020-08-05, 02:05 PM
I openly regret the lack of "gnome country" in popular music. You have metal inspired by fantasy, where's my country song about being an elf or a gnome?

I honestly think the answer is that the ones we might be familiar with were repurposed as work or rebel songs or given new lyrics. There are a few surviving examples, like "The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry" from Shetland or the various versions of "Lady Isabel and the Elf-Knight". There are also frequent appearances by mermaids in sea songs or working shanties. Generally though I'd say it's because country music comes from a place that doesn't have a tradition of elf or dwarf legends, and contemporary folk comes from the folk revival of the late 1950s, which in turn is influenced primarily by work songs, traditional and rebel songs from the Irish diaspora, and contemporary ballads like "The Town I Loved So Well". So what you'd be looking for is probably something in the Irish Country genre, with traditional folk songs recorded in a modern country style - for example, Nathan Carter's recording of "Banks of the Roses".

Of course, if you're fluent in Icelandic, you could listen to "Ólafur Liljurós", about a guy who gets murdered by elves for being a Christian.

loki_ragnarock
2020-08-05, 03:40 PM
Dwarven women are beautiful lovers. (https://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2013/10/love-songs-about-dwarves.html)


Dwarven women, are beautiful lovers
Dwarven women, they understand
I've been around some, and I have discovered
That dwarven women know just how to please a man.
(Verse)
Everybody seems to love those human women
Buck eighteen on up to one twenty-five
Well I love 'em too, but I'm tellin' you
Dwarves know to really love, and boy it sure is fine
(CHORUS)
(Verse)
So baby don't you worry about growin' whiskers
Those elven girls ain't got nothin' on you
Cause it takes some whiskey, to get 'em frisky
And frisky dwarves may just be the ones to teach 'em a thing or two.
(Chorus)
I have never clicked a link on this forum with more trepidation.

LibraryOgre
2020-08-05, 03:42 PM
I have never clicked a link on this forum with more trepidation.

That I placed fear in the heart of Loki does my viking heart good.

greenstone
2020-08-06, 06:53 PM
I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves.
In the cosmology of my game world, it is because of the gods.

The creator gods of the dwarf, gnome, goliath and halfling species take an active role in the development of their creations. Part of their influence is that those races don't interbreed with anything. The gods are, essentially, maintaining the "purity" or "integrity" of their creations (which of those words someone in the game uses will tell you a lot about their attitudes to diversity).

The gods of the elves don't take any responsibility, for anything. They don't spend any effort looking after the race (their time is spent partying and attempting, umm, "intimacy" with anything that moves). Even the creation of the elven race was an accident. Elven gods are the personification of the term "chaotic".

Humans have a problem in that their creator gods are missing (murdered many thousands of years ago). With no god maintining the species, all sorts of strange things have crept into the bloodline - genasi, tieflings, aasimar, half-elves, and half-orcs.

The orc race has something called the Blessing of Luthic. Orcs can interbreed with almost anything (which gets squicky very quickly). Orc-human and orc-elf pairings produce half-orcs (using the PHB statistics for both types of children).

Some human and elven societies have immense hatred for half-breeds; some don't. The childhood of a half-orc, half-elf or planetouched could range anywhere from "despised scum" all the way to "loved and cherished child" (so, to be fair, could the childhood of anyone in the world).

Aaracokra and dragonborn are biologically different, so interbreeding is impossible (dragonborn aren't even mammalian).

Luccan
2020-08-06, 07:44 PM
In the cosmology of my game world, it is because of the gods.

The creator gods of the dwarf, gnome, goliath and halfling species take an active role in the development of their creations. Part of their influence is that those races don't interbreed with anything. The gods are, essentially, maintaining the "purity" or "integrity" of their creations (which of those words someone in the game uses will tell you a lot about their attitudes to diversity).

The gods of the elves don't take any responsibility, for anything. They don't spend any effort looking after the race (their time is spent partying and attempting, umm, "intimacy" with anything that moves). Even the creation of the elven race was an accident. Elven gods are the personification of the term "chaotic".

Humans have a problem in that their creator gods are missing (murdered many thousands of years ago). With no god maintining the species, all sorts of strange things have crept into the bloodline - genasi, tieflings, aasimar, half-elves, and half-orcs.

The orc race has something called the Blessing of Luthic. Orcs can interbreed with almost anything (which gets squicky very quickly). Orc-human and orc-elf pairings produce half-orcs (using the PHB statistics for both types of children).

Some human and elven societies have immense hatred for half-breeds; some don't. The childhood of a half-orc, half-elf or planetouched could range anywhere from "despised scum" all the way to "loved and cherished child" (so, to be fair, could the childhood of anyone in the world).

Aaracokra and dragonborn are biologically different, so interbreeding is impossible (dragonborn aren't even mammalian).

Hmm... I was gonna make the creators of dwarves, gnomes, and goliaths deeply intertwined in my new mythology (the dwarf and gnome god being siblings, the goliath and dwarf deities being married). I might throw halflings in as well, what with Stouts supposedly having dwarven ancestry

Naanomi
2020-08-06, 09:42 PM
<cosmology stuff>
That is real close to the classic 2E Planescape explication; except that planetouched races can happen from any stock because ‘breeding’ is a different process to planar beings... and dragons have such powerful anima that they overpower restrictions

Orcs and elves had a specific restriction against breeding because of the animosity between their pantheons

Dankus Memakus
2020-08-07, 02:55 AM
I don't think I saw anyone mention the D'Tarig who are a fun group of humans who came from the deserts in forgotten realms. They are potentially the descendants of human dwarf hybrids, they were very short and head weapon restrictions, and spoke a strange dwarvish pidgin language. All in all, they seem to have lost most of their dwarf like traits besides size but they are still fun.

Sharur
2020-08-10, 02:49 PM
In the setting that I built for gaming in, there are half-dwarves, called Halflings if the other parent is Human, or Gnome if the other parent is an Elf (the creation of which also involves some Fey meddling). Humans are the base species, with other humanoids being offshoots. As a result of this, if a Dwarf and an Orc managed to sire and birth a child, that child would be human.

The reason why Halflings and Gnomes get special names while half-elves and half-orcs do not, is that the former "breed true", so e.g. two halflings will have halfling children, while the progeny of the later tends to based on their other parent (e.g. a half-elf and a human will beget human children, while a half-orc and a normal orc will have orcs).

MrCharlie
2020-08-11, 01:11 PM
Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't). Aragorn is fully human (there are more than 60 generations separating him from his nearest Elvish ancestor), with some special traits.
There is a strong indication (but no confirmation), that Saruman created Half-Orcs and Quarter-Orcs.
While it isn't fully explained, the best explanation is that being human is a blessing in Tolkien's mythos (as a true afterlife and God exists, choosing to die isn't as stupid as it seems) and thus by choosing to be mortal he blessed all his descendants; only a force like Sauron could steal the gift of mortality from men.

To answer the original question; there hasn't been much need for them because most DnD settings have "Primarily X" kingdoms, and dwarves are typically isolationist-so you don't get many opportunities. Also, dwarven women presumably scare off most pansy ass human men, given that they can out-drink them and two of the sub-races can out-lift them. There have been a couple sub-races proposed, from Kender to Derro, but not unifying mythos.

On the other hand, Hobbits had conspicuous geographical tribes that were "Dwarf-like" and "Elf-like" and "Man-like" depending on what the local dominant race of free-folk was, suggesting that hobbits might have been the product of dwarfs and men (+/-) elves filtered through several generations and geographically isolated.

I personally always run my homebrew settings as "Humans+dwarves=Halflings, Elves+Dwarves=Gnomes", which neatly solves the hybridization questions without requiring any work on my part (Mix all three and you get halflings).