Additional monk subclasses [PEACH]

[CapnWildefyr]

I've been a fan of the monk since AD&D, but the implementations have not always been worth playing. In 5e, there are multiple threads here about fixing the monk, but still, I'm missing something. I used to watch "Kung Fu Theater," movies like the Five Venoms, and there just isn't a monk that does that... until now. :smallsmile: Instead of amalgams like Open Hand and Five Elements, I've concocted "animal-based" subclasses.

I tried hard to do several things:

Add a little more power to the class, since many monk criticisms are about low DPR.
Try not to make anything OP
Try to avoid more reasons to spend ki, except for relatively more powerful features
Give each animal style its own flavor, its own way of doing things even if the result is similar
Try to keep in-line with the existing base class
Most importantly, I tried to not give everything to everyone!


To maintain balance, I made new features sometimes 'at-will,' sometimes tied to successful attacks or FOB attacks, sometimes to rests, and sometimes to ki. You should be able to see each subclass has a different flavor, different focus/emphasis on abilities. Some increase attacks, some ac, some damage. Some seek to gain advantage or impose disadvantage, some provide minor spell-like powers. For the more OP abilities, like when you gain advantage, I limit the total time or number of uses, or both. Below is the link to the doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CYurze_pB34NspmQVxNhJMc1ykMfFq1ircZz0MsWC-8/edit?usp=sharing

What do you think?

[Amechra]

I don't have the time right now to give you a full critique, but I will make one comment: adding 1/5 of your Monk level to your Unarmored Defense is a bad idea. Monks already have an AC that goes from 16-20 over the course of their career - they do not need a free increase to their AC.

Also, bear in mind that a lot of the people complaining about the Monk's DPR are comparing it to optimized damage dealing, like Polearm Expert + Great Weapon Master, or Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter. Or, alternatively, they play at tables where everyone can expect to end up with a magical weapon. If you aren't working under those assumptions, the Monk is pretty alright damage-wise, especially since most of those calculations kinda skip over the whole "everyone beating on the guy that the Monk stunned has Advantage on their attack rolls".

Not to say that I'm adverse to the Monk getting more love (it's probably my favorite class, because equipment is for nerds), but that's something you should keep in mind before trying to "fix" the class.

...

Also, a quick glance at the Snake Style shows that you give them proficiency with a pair of weapons that don't exist in 5e, Snake Venom gives you a really powerful debuff at-will for free (Blindness can effectively remove a creature from the fight for a minute), Snake Charm is just kinda weird, and subclasses never hand out feats.

[Old Harry MTX]

Mmm, I've not yet finished to read the doc, but why don't you create a single subclass with a mechanic similar to the Battle Master's maneuver that characterize each martial style?

[CapnWildefyr]

I don't have the time right now to give you a full critique, but I will make one comment: adding 1/5 of your Monk level to your Unarmored Defense is a bad idea. Monks already have an AC that goes from 16-20 over the course of their career - they do not need a free increase to their AC.

Also, bear in mind that a lot of the people complaining about the Monk's DPR are comparing it to optimized damage dealing, like Polearm Expert + Great Weapon Master, or Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter. Or, alternatively, they play at tables where everyone can expect to end up with a magical weapon. If you aren't working under those assumptions, the Monk is pretty alright damage-wise, especially since most of those calculations kinda skip over the whole "everyone beating on the guy that the Monk stunned has Advantage on their attack rolls".

Not to say that I'm adverse to the Monk getting more love (it's probably my favorite class, because equipment is for nerds), but that's something you should keep in mind before trying to "fix" the class.

...

Also, a quick glance at the Snake Style shows that you give them proficiency with a pair of weapons that don't exist in 5e, Snake Venom gives you a really powerful debuff at-will for free (Blindness can effectively remove a creature from the fight for a minute), Snake Charm is just kinda weird, and subclasses never hand out feats.

1. I was reading a lot of 'monk AC never changes enough' and I didn't think 1 pt/tier would break the game, but I can dump it.
2. I agree that DPR is a relative thing - I tried to not go too overboard. Maybe you get extra dice damage, but you have to meet a condition first, usually, or limited uses. At least that's what I tried to do. And...
3. I think I accidentally edited out a limit on the blindness/deafness. I was trying to not tie it to ki, but when I deleted the ki cost I forgot to put in a limit like 1/SR. Gaining advantage once a combat is one thing, all day long is something else. But a 3rd level wizard can cast this...
4. Snake 'charm' - my imagination's failed me on that one. : ) I still can't think of anything better. Maybe a cobra-like charm vs an opponent? I didn't want to use 'poisoned' because I used it for Scorpion.


Mmm, I've not yet finished to read the doc, but why don't you create a single subclass with a mechanic similar to the Battle Master's maneuver that characterize each martial style?

I was thinking that a battle master-like system means you have to do a lot of thinking, planning, and calculating. If I get this feature now, what do I do later, min/mixing, etc. It might be better in some ways but I was thinking straight features are just easier. (And some of these features should NOT be paired up, else OP.) Although, I know some players do love the planning part.
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Thanks to both of you!