Hey, soooo my players stole and sold a Holy Avenger to Hell.

[Daimonius]

Hey guys, long time fan but new to the foruns, i'm in a conundrum, and i'm open to suggestions, so i'll be happy if you can give me some insight.

My players fought a 20 level paladin of conquer that serves the god of justice (in my world the god of justice is kind of a ****) they lost the fight, but due the rules of disarming of 5e and some really luck dice rolls they manage to disarm and steal (by throwing the weapon inside of the tavern were the kobold rogue was) the freaking Holy Avenger from her. The worst part is the shadow soscerer of the group is a chaotic harley queen mixed with jack sparrow type that sold the freaking blade to the Devils. My question is... what should i give her in return? they are only level 5.

[stoutstien]

Hey guys, long time fan but new to the foruns, i'm in a conundrum, and i'm open to suggestions, so i'll be happy if you can give me some insight.

My players fought a 20 level paladin of conquer that serves the god of justice (in my world the god of justice is kind of a ****) they lost the fight, but due the rules of disarming of 5e and some really luck dice rolls they manage to disarm and steal (by throwing the weapon inside of the tavern were the kobold rogue was) the freaking Holy Avenger from her. The worst part is the shadow soscerer of the group is a chaotic harley queen mixed with jack sparrow type that sold the freaking blade to the Devils. My question is... what should i give her in return? they are only level 5.

which devil? you could look into the cult boons in MToF for a solid trade that is powerful but fair.

[troesma]

you could create an item like an orb or something that activate the spell Infernal Calling or Summon Greater Demon (but for devils) when broken. They just appear attack everything in sight to steal their souls (potentially the players too). Summon Lesser Demons could also be an idea.

[Chronos]

You use "sold" in the past tense, but she hasn't yet gotten anything for it? Is that meant to imply that she just gave them the sword before she had any specific agreement with them? Because if that's the case, then she's going to get ripped off. Devils do have a notion of "fairness", but it's one that's definitely skewed in their favor: Like, say, "You gave us a weapon that you can't use effectively, and so in fair exchange, we will give you a different weapon that you can't use effectively.", and she gets some nonmagical weapon that she's not proficient in.

On the other hand, if the past tense was erroneous, and negotiations are still ongoing, then that's a valuable bargaining chip she's got. The devils will still try to rip her off, of course, but given the choice of an actually-fair (by her standards) deal or losing their chance at the sword, they'll give her the actually-fair deal.

I suppose the main thing is, what is she asking for?

[Unoriginal]

Hey guys, long time fan but new to the foruns, i'm in a conundrum, and i'm open to suggestions, so i'll be happy if you can give me some insight.

My players fought a 20 level paladin of conquer that serves the god of justice (in my world the god of justice is kind of a ****) they lost the fight, but due the rules of disarming of 5e and some really luck dice rolls they manage to disarm and steal (by throwing the weapon inside of the tavern were the kobold rogue was) the freaking Holy Avenger from her. The worst part is the shadow soscerer of the group is a chaotic harley queen mixed with jack sparrow type that sold the freaking blade to the Devils. My question is... what should i give her in return? they are only level 5.

Descent into Avernus says:




What Devils Offer
The limits of what a devil can offer are determined by its status in the infernal hierarchy. The Infernal Hierarchy table lists devils in ascending order of power, from lowly lemures to the mighty archdukes and archduchesses. (The orthon is included in this table for the sake of completeness, though orthons don't appear in this adventure or in the Monster Manual. You can find out more about them in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.)

Devils like to tempt mortals with treasure and magic items. Magic items bestowed by devils usually have a devilish cast to them. They're made of infernal iron, bear Infernal script, give off faint wails of torment, smell of brimstone, or have some other telltale sign (see the What Quirk Does It Have? table in chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master's Guide for examples).

Devils might also agree to serve mortals for a time, acting as advisors and bodyguards.

Lesser Devils
A lesser devil can offer any or all of the following:

-Up to 500 gp worth of art objects, coins, or gems
-An uncommon magic item
-Loyal service for a period not exceeding nine years

Greater Devils
A greater devil can offer any or all of the following:

-Up to 5,000 gp worth of art objects, coins, or gems
-An uncommon or rare magic item
-Loyal service for a period not exceeding nine days

Archdevils
An archdevil can offer any or all of the following:

-Up to 50,000 gp worth of art objects, coins, gems, or property
-An uncommon, rare, or very rare magic item
-A valuable piece of information that can't be acquired by any other means
-A single task that the archdevil or one of its minions can complete within the next nine days
-A supernatural gift manifesting as a charm (see "Supernatural Gifts" in chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master's Guide and "Archdevil Charms")
-The benefit of a wish spell (with no exhaustion for using an effect other than duplicating another spell)


Now, keep in mind that a Holy Avenger is not only Legendary, it is also a powerful force of good in the world. In other words, it is worth more than what an Archdevil would give for a soul (although DiA also gives the example of Asmodeus trading a Rod of Lordly Might in exchange for a soul). On the other hand, Devils would probably try to get the sword for cheaper than it's worth if they can get away from it.

In any case, in the world of the campaign it should be treated as a huge thing, which may result in the PCs getting a lot for it if they can handle the consequences. And the Paladin's reputation (and maybe the reputation of her entire order/church/etc too) should be absolutely ruined.


You use "sold" in the past tense, but she hasn't yet gotten anything for it? Is that meant to imply that she just gave them the sword before she had any specific agreement with them? Because if that's the case, then she's going to get ripped off. Devils do have a notion of "fairness", but it's one that's definitely skewed in their favor: Like, say, "You gave us a weapon that you can't use effectively, and so in fair exchange, we will give you a different weapon that you can't use effectively.", and she gets some nonmagical weapon that she's not proficient in.

On the other hand, if the past tense was erroneous, and negotiations are still ongoing, then that's a valuable bargaining chip she's got. The devils will still try to rip her off, of course, but given the choice of an actually-fair (by her standards) deal or losing their chance at the sword, they'll give her the actually-fair deal.

I suppose the main thing is, what is she asking for?


All good points. I would even go so far as to say that if they gave the sword to the Devils without asking for payment first (while making clear they were giving it, of course, not just handing it to them so it can be examined or the like), the Devils would consider it a gift and see no reason to give anything in exchange.

[Evaar]

Like, say, "You gave us a weapon that you can't use effectively, and so in fair exchange, we will give you a different weapon that you can't use effectively.", and she gets some nonmagical weapon that she's not proficient in.

Welllll hang on. Devils are tempters. This would be a good way to thumb their nose at the characters and impart the "crime doesn't pay" lesson when what a Devil really wants the characters to feel is "Crime absolutely pays."

Or, rather, Evil absolutely pays.

They should still low-ball the characters as much as they think they can get away with, but the goal shouldn't be to burn the bridge. Give the character something valuable with strings attached.

I would suggest low to medium powered magic items for the whole party, flavored infernally. Life-stealing daggers, +1 rods of the pact keeper, that sort of thing. Stuff that will make them all think "Wow are we glad we sold out to those Devils, we all came out much better for it." Next time they're in a situation to do so, they'll bring their business right back to Hell. Devils like return customers.

[Kyutaru]

If the Holy Avenger was such a big deal for the devils then it should also be a big deal for the heroes. One getting stolen practically begs for the Magic Police to show up. What do they get for selling it to the devils? Protection from Good.

[Damon_Tor]

I expect anything gained by trading with a devil would be double edged somehow. Pick a legendary item on par with the Avenger that your party could make good use of, but give it an additional effect: whenever they use it they have to roll a Wis save. If they fail they become dominated by a devil for a while.

[Daimonius]

I said sold in the past tense because the player already made the contacts and the negotiations are happening , I'm trying not to make the character too OP.
The player made the deal behind the party's back.
The plan of the devils is bigger, they will give her a false Holy Avenger, since the party wants to return the Holy Avenger to the Paladin, and the sword will corrupt her and she'll become one of the bbeg of the campaign, the best thing is that will happen solely because of this player actions.
I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Thanks for all the answers it's really helping me.

[Unoriginal]

I said sold in the past tense because the player already made the contacts and the negotiations are happening , I'm trying not to make the character too OP.
The player made the deal behind the party's back.
The plan of the devils is bigger, they will give her a false Holy Avenger, since the party wants to return the Holy Avenger to the Paladin, and the sword will corrupt her and she'll become one of the bbeg of the campaign, the best thing is that will happen solely because of this player actions.
I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Thanks for all the answers it's really helping me.

So she's trading it to the Demons, not the Devils?

[Contrast]

I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.

It sounds like the player is very focused on a direct mechanical reward for their actions. I might suggest a different approach - induction into a secret society of cultists that moves behind the scenes, controlling high society, nations dancing on their fingertips and all that power can be your players...if they're willing to do what is necessary to climb the ranks anyway. They can call in favours and access things they normally wouldn't be able to but favours will be expected in return.

You said the player had made this deal secretly. Before you embark on this endeavour I would be very sure this is the sort of game all your players want to be playing.


I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

This changes the context quite substantially. Deals with devils and deals with demons are very different things.

[theantesse]

I have three ideas:

1. A legendary Manual or Tome. The ones you read and get a +2 to one ability score. It's a powerful gift to receive but it is almost guaranteed not to mess with your game the same way handing out some other legendary item would be. (Alternatively, this could be an instantaneous one time boost of +2 without reading involved)

2. The gift of a powerful favor. Say the archfiend's name three times and he'll appear to intervene on your behalf and then end of contract. Kind of like Divine Intervention?

3. A single wish spell. Because foolish mortals dream for great things and then always mess things up because they don't close loopholes.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

It sounds like the player is very focused on a direct mechanical reward for their actions. I might suggest a different approach - induction into a secret society of cultists that moves behind the scenes, controlling high society, nations dancing on their fingertips and all that power can be your players...if they're willing to do what is necessary to climb the ranks anyway. They can call in favours and access things they normally wouldn't be able to but favours will be expected in return.

You said the player had made this deal secretly. Before you embark on this endeavour I would be very sure this is the sort of game all your players want to be playing.



This changes the context quite substantially. Deals with devils and deals with demons are very different things.

How wanting to fly, having devil henchmen, keeping yourself safe and secret and having a personal devil servent is a direct mechanical reward?

[MrStabby]

What's the rest of the party?

I am thinking, is there a power or utility gap that can be closed? Essentially can you give without alientating other players?

What are the other player's strengths? Can you enhance the sorcerer without stepping on their toes?



So you could offer:

Replace all fire damage with hellfire damage, that deals 1 point of necrotic damage for each die of fire damage rolled. Damage spells are not the best spells and spells are not the best source of damage so it's not pushing too hard. Maybe some issues arround the current level though as fireball is somewhat ahead of the curve. Depending on if you are likely to use a lot of fire resistant enemies over the next three levels it might work.

Ritual caster feat: being given access to rituals seems solid. You could go further and give the warlock invocation for the book of ancient secrets. Frankly any warlock invocation should probably be on the table.

Fiendish spells known. Sorcerers love more spells - but give spells specific to the partron. I would suggest if you want a fiendish/chaos theme: find familliar, burning hands, fear, confusion, planar binding

[Altheus]

Such fun can be had with this one.

I suggest giving an unholy avenger in return, a weapon that will shape itself to whatever the wielder knows how to use best and has the same bonuses as the holy avenger but for evil rather than good.

And it talks to you, sometimes it tries to make you do things.

Loose this thing on the world and enjoy the surprise as the unwitting player becomes champion of hell.

[da newt]

The Demons will agree to the PC's request for wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.

She will be provided with the wings of the fallen assimar (cool looking but not capable of flight, always present/visible), summon lesser demons - absolutely (DM make sure you impose all the randomness and restrictions of the spell as written), the ring of non-detection will only prevent detection by GOOD aligned casters, and the demons will provide a Quasit Familiar that will report the PC's actions to the Queen of Chaos' minions.

This deal is good for the Demons, they'd have no problem with it. As DM this should give you plenty of plot tools to play with. Enjoy.

[Kyutaru]

They can't get all the things. The demons need to screw them even a little bit. It's just what demons do. It's their principle, a deal can't be a deal without a slight adjustment. Giving them 3 out of 4 is good enough.

[Altheus]

They can't get all the things. The demons need to screw them even a little bit. It's just what demons do. It's their principle, a deal can't be a deal without a slight adjustment. Giving them 3 out of 4 is good enough.

How about giving them what they ask for but not necessarily what they want?

[Unoriginal]

The Queen of Chaos as in, the one that got sealed away after the War of Law and Chaos, which precedes the Blood War?

That's some ancient being here.


They can't get all the things. The demons need to screw them even a little bit. It's just what demons do. It's their principle, a deal can't be a deal without a slight adjustment. Giving them 3 out of 4 is good enough.

Demons aren't devils, while they know how to use deals to their advantage they don't care about them and will absolutely screw with the PCs a lot both during and after the deal.

[Sol0botmate]

First of all:

1. Your players did something very very clever and very rewarding for them (from logical perspectives) - you should absolutely not try to go cheap on them. Stealing HA from level 20 character as level 5 party is huge risk and should be huge reward.

2. Reward should be enough to satsify party but not enough to power creep them too much on their level.

3. Considering all that I would go with:

3 x uncommon magic items of their chosing from magic items list (instead of wings she can get boost of flying for example)
2 x rare magic item of their chosing from magic items list
1 x very rare magic item of their chosing
If party has a wizard: 8x magic scrolls of spells from level 1-5 of his/her chosing.

That should be enough so everyone in party get something and it's not really that strong. Some may say that very rare magic item is too strong for level 5 party but they stole a freaking Holy Avenger, so I think it's ok.

And be careful about some advices here from others with "party should get screwed a little bit" - you may leave very salty and toxic taste at table with that that will move along through whole campaign. So I would be careful with it, especially if those people are not your good friends. They are only level 5 - just reward them for it and move along. Don't overthink it.

[Quietus]

I said sold in the past tense because the player already made the contacts and the negotiations are happening , I'm trying not to make the character too OP.
The player made the deal behind the party's back.
The plan of the devils is bigger, they will give her a false Holy Avenger, since the party wants to return the Holy Avenger to the Paladin, and the sword will corrupt her and she'll become one of the bbeg of the campaign, the best thing is that will happen solely because of this player actions.
I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Thanks for all the answers it's really helping me.

I would have no issue giving an imp companion, and a ring of nondetection. As for wings and summer lesser demons, no problem, but I'd do it as a racial template - that character now *looks* like a demon/devil. And I would make it clear that they get the imp companion, but if they lose it, then the ritual to Find Familiar will have to entail [insert evil act here] - some kind of sacrifice, probably. And the imp (or quasit, or...) that they get whispers in their ear about how they can rise in the infernal hierarchy...

[Kyutaru]

How about giving them what they ask for but not necessarily what they want?

Demons aren't devils, while they know how to use deals to their advantage they don't care about them and will absolutely screw with the PCs a lot both during and after the deal.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. Screwing them is a given. Just giving them not quite what they want is a devil thing since it fits the technicality aspect. Demons are more like...

"So you wanted wings, here's some I plucked off a bat. You wanted to summon demons, I'll make sure to send some demons every time you try to rest. You wanted a magic ring but I want a pony and neither of us is getting one. Also I ate your familiar and replaced it with a mephit. I was hungry."

[Unoriginal]

I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.

Wait, I got it.

Demons go:

-Summon Lesser Demon 1/long rest? Sure, no problem, done.

-Ring of Non Detection? Sure, no problem, it's pocket change compared to the Avenger.

-Wings and a more powerful familiar? Sure, no problem. Sorcerer is transformed into a bird. She still has all her class features, HPs and mental stats + can talk and the like, but is otherwise a Tiny bird and such can bond with other characters as their Familiar like the Monster Manual says.

Demon dealer can guarantee she won't ever find a Familiar more powerful than the one resulting from this deal. And also they'd probably find very funny to have a Storm Sorcerer turned into a bird.

[Sol0botmate]

And also they'd probably find very funny to have a Storm Sorcerer turned into a bird.

I am sure player will also find it very funny

/s

[Zanos]

Wait, I got it.

Demons go:

-Summon Lesser Demon 1/long rest? Sure, no problem, done.

-Ring of Non Detection? Sure, no problem, it's pocket change compared to the Avenger.

-Wings and a more powerful familiar? Sure, no problem. Sorcerer is transformed into a bird. She still has all her class features, HPs and mental stats + can talk and the like, but is otherwise a Tiny bird and such can bond with other characters as their Familiar like the Monster Manual says.

Demon dealer can guarantee she won't ever find a Familiar more powerful than the one resulting from this deal. And also they'd probably find very funny to have a Storm Sorcerer turned into a bird.
I doubt a Demon would even bother with giving you ironic 'gifts'. They'd just take the sword and then probably torture you to death for fun before eating you. Why people even attempt to 'bargain' with demons I'll never understand. They're the embodiment of chaotic evil, their word is less durable than 1 ply toilet paper.

The real question is, why isn't someone who has something a powerful demon currently wants not currently being attacked by demons? A level 5 character with a holy avenger 'negotiating' with demons is just begging to be eaten by a glabrezu.


I am sure player will also find it very funny

/s
Bargaining with demons is the territory of the insane and stupid. Or stupidly insane. Or insanely stupid.

[jaappleton]

So... Whoa. I mean, first off:

This is AWESOME stuff. Of course you want to reward the creative thinking and awesome RP. But at lv5, if you give the Sorc something too powerful, it could easily lead (We've all seen this before....) to everyone else at the table feeling jealous. At level 5, you don't want the Sorc running around with the Staff of the Magi, or a Staff of Power.

At the same time, you don't want them to get anything meager here, either. Because then they might feel ripped off.

My opinion? Have the Devil really test their character. Lets discover what kind of person the Sorcerer really is. And remember, Devils are EVIL. Truly EVIL creatures. What's to say that the Devil isn't using his power to have the rest of the party listen in, like a two-way mirror? Where they can watch this negotiation, but the Sorcerer has zero idea.

And have the Devil really tempt the Sorcerer. One very nice item, or boon, for them..... Or several less valuable items, one for each party member?

[Willie the Duck]

My players fought a 20 level paladin of conquer that serves the god of justice (in my world the god of justice is kind of a ****) they lost the fight, but due the rules of disarming of 5e and some really luck dice rolls they manage to disarm and steal (by throwing the weapon inside of the tavern were the kobold rogue was) the freaking Holy Avenger from her. The worst part is the shadow soscerer of the group is a chaotic harley queen mixed with jack sparrow type that sold the freaking blade to the Devils. My question is... what should i give her in return? they are only level 5.

I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Who they are negotiating with probably does matter for what the demons have to give, but certainly doesn't factor into what would or wouldn't be overpowering. When it comes to overpowering, don't worry about anything except the question 'will this destabilize my campaign?' At-will flight, in and of itself, can be destabilizing if you were intending there to be a lot of 'figure out how your are accessing...' type challenges. Think about what you can expect to happen and then leave yourself plenty of buffer for what you didn't think about (I'm guessing you didn't predict they'd get the sword off the paladin).

Personally, the familiar boost seems the least problematic, the lesser demon summoning the most interesting (you can give the demons all sorts of different personalities, or make it the same demon each time and a reoccurring character), wings acceptable unless the campaign specifics say otherwise, and the nondetection the one that might come back to haunt.

Also consider this: As a player, it is hard not to want to get everything you have envisioned for yourself ASAP. However, if this is what this player envisions for their character in terms of character goals, if you give them all of it now, to what are they going to work towards as the campaign progresses?

[Unoriginal]

I am sure player will also find it very funny

/s

The player should be reminded that demons are likely to screw their PC over before the deal is made, of course.



I doubt a Demon would even bother with giving you ironic 'gifts'. They'd just take the sword and then probably torture you to death for fun before eating you.

Not all Demons are the same, some do enjoy more complex fates for their victims.

Ex: Baphomet regularly tricks people into turning themselves into Minotaurs.



Why people even attempt to 'bargain' with demons I'll never understand. They're the embodiment of chaotic evil, their word is less durable than 1 ply toilet paper.

Generally it's desperation ("they're the only ones who can help now"), hubris ("I know they're untrustworthy but they won't fool me"), like-mindedness ("I too am malevolently selfish, I can handle them"), pragmatism ("they will screw us over in an instant, but we *need* that instant"), ignorance ("those funky devils sure are generous") or a mix of those options.



The real question is, why isn't someone who has something a powerful demon currently wants not currently being attacked by demons? A level 5 character with a holy avenger 'negotiating' with demons is just begging to be eaten by a glabrezu.

That's a good point, though smarter demons would have realized a peeved high-level Paladin is nearby and the PC is welcome in taking the heat away off the demons... up until the demons change their mind on what is preferable, of course.

[Contrast]

How wanting to fly, having devil henchmen, keeping yourself safe and secret and having a personal devil servent is a direct mechanical reward?

Its the difference between saying 'I want a weapon of great power' and 'I want a +3 flametongue greataxe'. It sounds to me like OPs player has said 'I want a +3 flametongue greataxe'.

This isn't intrinsically bad depending on the situation but where this is a reward specifically only being granted to one player as the cost of the party I think a more ephemeral reward is likely to be the better solution in that it is less likely to cause immediate hostility from the rest of the players and is more easily incorporated into future events in a way that everyone benefits from (with the 'cost' being paid by the PC responsible).

[HPisBS]

I said sold in the past tense because the player already made the contacts and the negotiations are happening , I'm trying not to make the character too OP.
The player made the deal behind the party's back.
The plan of the devils is bigger, they will give her a false Holy Avenger, since the party wants to return the Holy Avenger to the Paladin, and the sword will corrupt her and she'll become one of the bbeg of the campaign, the best thing is that will happen solely because of this player actions.
I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Thanks for all the answers it's really helping me.


Her character's racial features get replaced with those of a Winged Tiefling. She may or may not look the way she did before while not using these racial features. Plus, she gets a 1/day racial casting of Summon Lesser Demons. If the queen of chaos is happy with her, the summoned demons may even obey her.
She now has an actual Pact of the Chain... and a limited Pact to go with it. Re-summoning her Quasit or whatever may require the promise or completion of some favor for her new patron.
The Ring of Nondetection doubles as a Ring of the Scryed for the queen (and her agents) to spy on the wearer at will.



Edit:

Its the difference between saying 'I want a weapon of great power' and 'I want a +3 flametongue greataxe'. It sounds to me like OPs player has said 'I want a +3 flametongue greataxe'.

On the contrary, these requests aren't all that powerful, especially not relative to the legendary item being bartered with. Really, it seems to me like the player was intentionally trying to ask for stuff that'd be just shy of OP for their level. I'd say my list of suggestions ↑ should demonstrate that well enough.

[Dankus Memakus]

I said sold in the past tense because the player already made the contacts and the negotiations are happening , I'm trying not to make the character too OP.
The player made the deal behind the party's back.
The plan of the devils is bigger, they will give her a false Holy Avenger, since the party wants to return the Holy Avenger to the Paladin, and the sword will corrupt her and she'll become one of the bbeg of the campaign, the best thing is that will happen solely because of this player actions.
I talked to the player and she wants four things wings, summon lesser demon's 1x per long rest, a ring of non detection and a boost to her familiar equivalent to the pact of the chain.
I'm thinking that this maybe a bit much, but she is negotiating with an envoy of the queen of chaos.

Thanks for all the answers it's really helping me.

I believe someone else already mentioned this but just be cautious with your group here. I may be echoing others because I'm lazy and didn't read everything and if I am I'm sorry.

Some people really get angry over behind the back stuff and make sure everyone is on board.

Also ask yourself, if everyone is on board is said player okay with getting killed by the party? Making them a BBEG is a good way to cause this and if the party is all into it, it can be some seriously good roleplaying fun. However, I've left groups because of DM plans like this working out pretty sour. I'd just kinda talk to everyone about it somehow because it's no fun if players get hurt feelings over secret deals.

[Yakk]

One thing you can do with D&D 5e outside of a fixed setting like the Forgotten Realms is make it clear that legendary items are unique.

So the players stole the holy avenger.

Maybe the demons are up to something collecting holy artifacts, something very specific. The Carpenter's Cup, The Holy Avenger, The Book of Exalted Deeds.

After all, how else do you produce Death Knights?

[Grim Portent]

Depending on the tone of the game this would be a chance for the fiend in question to make an alliance with the player, and possibly the party.

You said the sword is being bartered to the Queen of Chaos? If I recall correctly that would be the ancient demon who created the modern demonic Tanar'ri out of mortal souls?

Well why not offer the player, and any other players who're willing to get in on the deal immortality in the form of becoming a demon? Mechanically speaking you can give them wings, claws, daemon summoning, damage resistances or other abilities from various daemons, and if they die they respawn in the Abyss and need to return to the Material Plane through a bit of a trek to find a portal or through being summoned by those still in the material.

Provided they don't get too many abilities all at once, say a new ability every four or five levels they wouldn't necessarily be OP while still being thematically corrupted, and it sets up the Paladins, and indeed more or less all the forces of Good as legitimate antagonists they already know.

[Cikomyr2]

There needs to be some consequences to this barter. The Holy Avengers should become corrupted, a Fallen Avengers, the most evil and demonic of sword of the Planes.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Every single one of the things they asked for can easily be bugged/corrupted in some way to ensure that the player causes havoc with them, except maybe for the wings. I wouldn't directly screw them over, but I would absolutely have beings of pure evil use this chance to do much worse things through them.

So she gets wings. Eh, okay. You can try to balance it or not. Players already have access to flight if they want it by level 5, just not always-on yet. And while they're nice, be sure to include enemies that can not only deal with fliers, but every now and then one that specializes in, say, knocking them prone and cratering them to the tune of up to 20d6 falling damage. I wouldn't do that too often, but it's good to remind them that you're not going to remove all challenge for it. Most enemies should have ranged attacks or flight from now on. Don't use strictly terrestrial beasts.

Ability to summon lesser demons once a day? Heh. Do it. Then don't have them go away after they're summoned, they just no longer help the player. I wouldn't have them then attack the player, more be "thanks for the trip, see ya later!". I'm not sure you even need to detail what horrible things they go on to do, the implication is likely enough to give the player pause. If she thinks she can then summon one and do things like command them to help tell her how to stop this, tell her their plans, lock themselves up, etc, the 'control' period immediately ends and they skip off anyway. The spell they teach her never actually gives her control, they just help out to convince her to keep using it.

A Ring of Nondetection that actually lets the bargainers detect her easily makes a lot of sense. Just in case she ever gets the idea that she can get out of this bargain. Or if she's no longer all that useful, sell her location to the highest bidder.

Empowered chain pact familiar? She seriously wants that? Aha, ahahaha! I'm thinking incubus/succubus. They'll absolutely feign loyalty, but again, they're in it for themselves. Also to make sure she keeps using the summoning as often as possible and keeps working for Team Evil while simultaneously manipulating world events around the party.

As for the devils brokering said-deal, they got what they wanted in making the deal in the first place. A powerful force of good is taken from the world, they get a chance to corrupt another major force of good, and they also get this player's soul in the bargain. No, the player made no such deals. But she's committed such a heinous act of evil here that she no longer needs to, her soul is damned.

EDIT: Bonus! If the other players get jealous of these 'awesome rewards', have the devils take pity on them. They'll offer them gifts of their own if they can just offer something else of value. Of which they have some ideas...

[TigerT20]

As with the post above mentioned, the player's alignment should definitely be called into question.

This isn't 'haha I'm just doing whatevs for lols', this is 'I'm taking one of the most powerful forces for good and handing it straight to those who are the definition of 'the wrong hands'. It would be like one country, neutral in a war, giving one side access to the other's nuclear weapons. Possibly not so drastic, but you can swap it for whataver weaponry you feel is the equivalent. They should not be able to continue claiming neutrality after performing such a major action.

If you don't want to condemn players to an afterlife as a demon, you could have some celestials take notice of the paladin's failure and send a retrieval mission - offering a few choice gifts in return, or just the warm fuzzy feeling of being a good person. If they hear about the plans to sell the weapon, they'll probably get more aggressive - using force if necessary.

[ThatoneGuy84]

Based on the rarity of the item I dont actually think her requests are to terrible, that being said as a DM you have to decide if you think the deal would be legitimate.

That being said, they would have a level 20 paladin and probably his level 20 friends chasing them for the rest of the charactors likely short lives.

As there are already plenty of ways to mess with the deal in the thread I dont think its necessary to add more.

I'd be much less worried about the deal then the repercussion of the actions of the party as a whole.

I can't see why the level 20 Paladin wouldnt reach out to a few old adventuring buddys, or I dunno go back to his Stronghold where he trains Hundreds of others and just simply go to war on the PCs for stealing his ridiculously expensive/hard to find sword.

Really I'd give the player what they wanted.
Then shortly after that charactor would likely be imprisoned forever or dead anyways so it would make little to no difference. (Prolly dead expecially if the paladin found out that they sold his prized possession to the demon queen of chaos)

Expecially considering a the subclass you picked is a conquest pally. Might makes right, seems likely in his 1-20 career hes taken over a base, has thousands of units at his command. Probably some assassins on payroll. Think if the enemy they created for themselves.

If you give the player what they want, have the demons contact the other players, thanks them for the assistance in obtaining the blade (outing your 1 players plan) and offer them some equivalent gear as thanks, and if they bite on it, send them on some dark evil quest for the demons)

[blackjack50]

An army to lead? Improve their level?

[da newt]

Before this thread, I didn't realize summon lesser demons was this chaotic (random demons, under no control, hostile to everyone):

You utter foul words, summoning demons from the chaos of the Abyss. Roll on the following table to determine what appears.
d6 / Demons Summoned
1–2 / Two demons of challenge rating 1 or lower
3–4 / Four demons of challenge rating 1/2 or lower
5–6 / Eight demons of challenge rating 1/4 or lower

The DM chooses the demons, such as manes or dretches, and caster chooses the unoccupied spaces you can see within range where they appear. A summoned demon disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends.
The demons are hostile to all creatures, including you. Roll initiative for the summoned demons as a group, which has its own turns. The demons pursue and attack the nearest non-demons to the best of their ability.
As part of casting the spell, you can form a circle on the ground with the blood used as a material component. The circle is large enough to encompass your space. While the spell lasts, the summoned demons can’t cross the circle or harm it, and they can’t target anyone within it. Using the material component in this manner consumes it when the spell ends.

[Daimonius]

First i would like to say thanks for all the answers.

The deal is done, she got what she wanted
Wings torn out os a shadow demon and sow into her back, the summon lesser demons spell once a day, the ring of non detection, and the empowered familiar. I also made it clear that she can become a warlock with the queen of chaos as her patron, if she wanted to multiclass in the next level.

The players gave the sword back to the Paladin without knowing what this will cause.

I'm playing with long time friends, and we are all experienced players, so that little scheme won't strain any relationships, i made it clear that is possible that the party will kill her when they find out... and they will... eventually.

I did change her alignment to chaotic evil, and maybe I will turn her into a tanar'ri when she die I liked that ideia, thanks.

In my world there is 7 Holy Avengers, one from each Good Deity that vowed to defeat the great evil of the game.

The truth is that in 5e I think the holy avenger is kind of underpowered so I don't think that it would be so unique.

Again thank you all, and I will update this thread when something related to this