Help with an unarmed caster

[Walk Hard]

Looking for assistance on a bare bones concept I have for a character.

I want to be a spell caster and also be capable of fighting unarmed.
We are starting at level 3 playing in ebberon.
Any tips on builds I should look into that would fit with these?

[Lavaeolus]

By default unarmed in 5e is not particularly strong, at least on characters not designed around it. In truth, ignoring UA, the Monk is the only class with much direct support for unarmed fighting, and you can only capitalise on that by going pretty heavily into the class. Not ideal for a character who wants to primarily be a caster.

Give up now, then? Well, not necessarily. There are a few things that can make unarmed at least viable enough. How much these work for you might depend on how often you want to get up in melee and attack: is it a last resort when spellcasting isn't viable, a common occurence, or your main go-to?

Without any special features or traits, an unarmed strike is 1+STR. Not much, and only a few casters really want to raise STR. Here's what we can do:

1) Tavern Brawler feat. Probably not the way forward, but worth a mention. This is a half-feat that grants proficiency with improvised weapons and raises unarmed damage from a 1 to a d4. It also lets you grapple as a bonus action after an unarmed strike. But a feat can be a hefty cost, and you'll want to ask how often your caster is going to benefit from grappling people. Maybe if you're going for a more martial character with spellcasting, such as a Paladin.

2) Monk dip. For the first four Monk levels, this is a d4 again. However, this time -- so long as you're unarmored and not using a non-monk weapon -- you can use DEX with your strikes. Worth a 1-level dip? Well, you should keep the trade-offs of going unarmored in mind. The caster most likely to consider a Monk dip, the Cleric, is also the one that always has medium armour and a shield, and possibly might have heavy armour. With a much more significant dive into Monk, if you go all the way to Monk 6, it'll let your unarmed strikes bypass nonmagical resistance. Of course, you're starting at level 3, so reaching that + having a decent caster progression feels like something you can write off.

3) Pick a certain race. Certainly one of the more convenient ways to go about it, without cutting into your progression. Leonin, Aarakocra, Tabaxi and Tortle all have claws, talons or some other trait that gives them 1d4 unarmed strikes. Lizardfolk and Minotaur, meanwhile, have access to 1d6 unarmed strikes. Great!

If you're not going Monk, you probably want a decent STR score and ideally that means grabbing heavy armour from somewhere, so you can let DEX slip. You could be a Cleric of one of the heavy-armor domains (of which there are quite a few). Or you could start out with a level in either Fighter or Paladin, the latter mainly if you're one of the CHA casters (or, indeed, are planning on going full Paladin). Of course, that does remind me:

4) Unearthed Arcana. The Class Feature Variants UA (https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf) introduced an Unarmed Fighting fighting style for Paladin, Fighter and Ranger. 1d6 damage normally, 1d8 if both your hands are free. You're sort of underutilising it if you don't take advantage of its extra grapple damage, but for just fulfilling the idea of being a decent unarmed fighter? You could do worse. Another recent Unearthed Arcana (https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_Feats.pdf) experimented with a feat that let you grab a Fighting Style, if you have a generous DM open to UA and want to be a full, non-multiclassed caster.

I'll leave it to you which route you think works the best or fits most into your character concept, but those are some of the options available. Hope this helps.

[Walk Hard]

Hmm, I have been told anything UA is a no go so that squashes the last bit there, but that's fine :)

Minotaurs, turtles and tabaxi are all allowed so they're options if I do follow with the unarmed spellcaster.

What about if we step away from specifically unarmed and just said meele spellcaster?
I know there are a lot of options there so to help narrow it down a little heres the rest of the party
2x super combat tanks
1x sneaky rogue
1x artificer (probable ranged combatant)

So i dont really want to step on anyone's toes with what they have planned what other nieches could I full?

[CTurbo]

Druid or Cleric with a level of Monk is the best way to do this. All 3 want as much Wis as you can get, and Dex is also a great secondary stat to have which means decent AC and not completely terrible unarmed fighting if/when needed.

[AvvyR]

How much "spell caster" do you want to be? People around here like to dunk on 4 elements Monk, but it does combine unarmed and casting, and it's honestly fine if you're not a min/maxer or playing with an adversarial DM.

[Quoz]

When you say unarmed, dont limit yourself to just punches, kicks, and headbutts. Grappling is great control and requires only limited investment to blend well with many caster options.

For barehanded DPS, go with touch spells like shocking grasp. A barehanded booming blade will also do alright. Alternatively, go with sustained AoEs like create bonfire, then grapple and hold them in it. If you have time before the fight begins, prepare the battlefield with mold earth. Dig a deep hole, 20 feet or so, to drop or shove enemies into for falling damage and to keep them out of the fight for a few rounds. If you or a teammate has extra cantrip choices, use shape water to line the top of the pit with ice to make the climb out much harder.

Since grappling is a skill check, expertise in athletics can cover for a lower strength score. Gaining advantage through enhance ability or Enlarge will be a huge boost, and there are numerous other ways to use magic to tip the odds like guidance, bardic inspiration, or hex.

Grappler is normally a terrible feat, but the ability to add the restrained condition and impose disadvantage on dexterity saves can be really worth it for a grappling caster. Get them pinned, then use your evocation of choice at point blank range.

Bard probably works best for this style of play, as a full caster that gains expertise early and can gain extra attack without multiclassing. Play as a V human to start with tavern brawler, and viciously mock your opponents when you get them in a headlock and use fancy words like defenestration when you toss them out the window.

[Unoriginal]

Draconic Sorcerer gives you decent AC and access to spell attacks like Lighting Lure, which can fit the unarmed combatant concept.

There is also the Druid with spells like Primal Savagery.

[Walk Hard]

Okay, I'm not gonna lie, but I was initially a little turned off on the grappling to start with but the idea of a smart ass pansy being an excellent grappler plus the magic to boost it is kinda funny to me.

Any tips on this?
More precisely on how effective grappling is? Especially against multiple opponents?
And what would be the best way to approach being a caster with grappling talent? Bard was suggested, any other ideas that work?
I am also mildly concerned about being too good at grappling and becoming a one trick pony

[Unoriginal]

Are lizardfolks allowed?


Okay, I'm not gonna lie, but I was initially a little turned off on the grappling to start with but the idea of a smart ass pansy being an excellent grappler plus the magic to boost it is kinda funny to me.

Any tips on this?
More precisely on how effective grappling is? Especially against multiple opponents?
And what would be the best way to approach being a caster with grappling talent? Bard was suggested, any other ideas that work?

Without spending feats or the like, all grappling does is making the enemy's movement speed 0. You can do it to as many opponents as you have arms.

Don't get me wrong it is useful for an adventuring party, but unless your character cast a spell that does damage over time and use grappling to keep the enemy in the AoE, it won't benefit them personally that much.


I am also mildly concerned about being too good at grappling and becoming a one trick pony

Unlikely to happen.

[Maan]

Not sure if it fits your concept, but a Moon Druid with just 1 level as Barbarian can be pretty brutal: shape change into some animal with grappling attacks and use Barbarian Rage to get advantage on Strength checks.

You could also check with your DM if they would allow Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade to work on an unarmed strike.

[Walk Hard]

Yes to Lizard folk

What would be most appropriate spells that work with the grappler and would it be better to go for feats that boost grappling or spellcasting?

Really appreciate all the help too guys, this is awesome!

[kazaryu]

Hmm, I have been told anything UA is a no go so that squashes the last bit there, but that's fine :)

Minotaurs, turtles and tabaxi are all allowed so they're options if I do follow with the unarmed spellcaster.

What about if we step away from specifically unarmed and just said meele spellcaster?
I know there are a lot of options there so to help narrow it down a little heres the rest of the party
2x super combat tanks
1x sneaky rogue
1x artificer (probable ranged combatant)

So i dont really want to step on anyone's toes with what they have planned what other nieches could I full?

i mean, blade singer is solid. its not the best in melee, but its certainly viable as a backup playstyle. and it only gets better as you level.

that being said, if you want to be a melee caster without stepping on any of the (existing) toes, then basically any of hte full caster gish subclasses easily fit the bill. blade/valor bard. blade pact warlock. bladesinger wizard.

druid/cleric can both melee as well, but they're also tyically tanks when they do...or at least they have ktis that heavily support tanking. That being said you seem to be lacking healing so a druid or cleric may not be a bad idea.

edit: actually scratch that, bards get healing/support spells. so if you wanna you can go valor or sword bard. i *think* sword bard tends to be better at straight melee combat than valor....but im still partial to the bladesinger

[Unoriginal]

i mean, blade singer is solid. its not the best in melee, but its certainly viable as a backup playstyle. and it only gets better as you level.

that being said, if you want to be a melee caster without stepping on any of the (existing) toes, then basically any of hte full caster gish subclasses easily fit the bill. blade/valor bard. blade pact warlock. bladesinger wizard.

druid/cleric can both melee as well, but they're also tyically tanks when they do...or at least they have ktis that heavily support tanking. That being said you seem to be lacking healing so a druid or cleric may not be a bad idea.

edit: actually scratch that, bards get healing/support spells. so if you wanna you can go valor or sword bard. i *think* sword bard tends to be better at straight melee combat than valor....but im still partial to the bladesinger

Bladesinger is not great for unarmed combat, though.

[kazaryu]

Bladesinger is not great for unarmed combat, though.

well..yes. but i wasn't replying to that OP. i was replying to OP's update. which i quoted. and i'll quote again.


What about if we step away from specifically unarmed and just said meele spellcaster? (bolding mine)

[JackPhoenix]

A barehanded booming blade will also do alright.

Not a thing. You need to use a weapon for BB/GFB.


Okay, I'm not gonna lie, but I was initially a little turned off on the grappling to start with but the idea of a smart ass pansy being an excellent grappler plus the magic to boost it is kinda funny to me.

Well, Plato apparently was pretty good wrestler....

[Rara1212]

Without spending feats or the like, all grappling does is making the enemy's movement speed 0. You can do it to as many opponents as you have arms.




That's why you don't just grapple them. You grapple them & then shove them prone.
0 movement means they can't stand up.

Being prone gives them disadvantage on attacks, and advantage for you & your allies if within 5ft(disadvantage otherwise)

[Unoriginal]

well..yes. but i wasn't replying to that OP. i was replying to OP's update. which i quoted. and i'll quote again.

(bolding mine)

I apologize, should have read more carefully.


That's why you don't just grapple them. You grapple them & then shove them prone.
0 movement means they can't stand up.

Being prone gives them disadvantage on attacks, and advantage for you & your allies if within 5ft(disadvantage otherwise)

I know, but as I said: "Don't get me wrong it is useful for an adventuring party, but unless your character cast a spell that does damage over time and use grappling to keep the enemy in the AoE, it won't benefit them personally that much."

Maintaining an enemy prone is nice but most casters have to choose between doing it or casting anything that turn. Which obviously isn't the best case scenario for a caster.

A Tavern Brawler Sword Bard with Expertise in Athletics would be pretty damn good at it, though. Especially if they're a Druegar and such can become Large-sized.

At lvl 6 said Duergar Brawler Bard can shove, bonus action grapple and attack their enemy (with 2d4+STR damage for unarmed strikes), without taking into account the cool Flourishes a Sword Bard can add, and it'd work even again Huge enemies. And if OP decides to use a melee weapon alongside the grappling, the Duergar Sword Bard is also well-suited for that, especially with the Dueling Fighting Style.

[JackPhoenix]

That's why you don't just grapple them. You grapple them & then shove them prone.
0 movement means they can't stand up.

Being prone gives them disadvantage on attacks, and advantage for you & your allies if within 5ft(disadvantage otherwise)

Which is problematic on casters, as they generally lack Extra Attack to grapple and shove in a single turn.

[kazaryu]

Which is problematic on casters, as they generally lack Extra Attack to grapple and shove in a single turn.

Until theg hit lvl 6. I meam..hes planning to go melee caster, so hes pribably going one of the gish subclasses

[Walk Hard]

Okay heres some follow up questions and where I plan on moving forward with this.

I am currently interested in being able to grapple and use magic to supplement this either by the dmg over time aoe mentioned or anything that may buff my grappling, I would also like to be comfortable is facing multiple foes and grappling isnt really an option but I am guessing that I wont need to take anything specific to get that out of the build.

I plan on having a good look at the bard class, is there anything in particular I should try to focus on with them? Is there an ideal spell choice or other class to multi class into to help the aim above? Either a "fighter" type class to enhance the meele options or a class better suited to spellcasting that would have access to specifically helpful spells?

If I go with the druegar what can be done to assist with the light sensitivity issue?

Lastly is there anything within the ebberon setting that would be specific to this build that would be worth a look at? Like any of the houses or marks that would work to help flesh the character and build out a bit?

Also if anyone has anything that's not specifically this character build but could be comfortably added to it to give it a bit more breadth without taking away from the core of it feel free to throw that in too :)

Again really appreciate the guidance from everyone!

[AvvyR]

Okay heres some follow up questions and where I plan on moving forward with this.

I am currently interested in being able to grapple and use magic to supplement this either by the dmg over time aoe mentioned or anything that may buff my grappling, I would also like to be comfortable is facing multiple foes and grappling isnt really an option but I am guessing that I wont need to take anything specific to get that out of the build.

I plan on having a good look at the bard class, is there anything in particular I should try to focus on with them? Is there an ideal spell choice or other class to multi class into to help the aim above? Either a "fighter" type class to enhance the meele options or a class better suited to spellcasting that would have access to specifically helpful spells?

If I go with the druegar what can be done to assist with the light sensitivity issue?

Lastly is there anything within the ebberon setting that would be specific to this build that would be worth a look at? Like any of the houses or marks that would work to help flesh the character and build out a bit?

Also if anyone has anything that's not specifically this character build but could be comfortably added to it to give it a bit more breadth without taking away from the core of it feel free to throw that in too :)

Again really appreciate the guidance from everyone!

Bard is really good at grappling due to expertise. Jack of all Trades to initiative will give you a small edge to getting control quickly. Valor gets you medium armor and a second attack, which you can use for another grapple or shove. When grappling an opponent into a damage over time spell, Cloud of Daggers is the one you want, it's absolutely devastating when the enemy can't move out of it. You'll almost certainly need to grab War Caster to help with concentration, and to allow you to cast when you have an opponent in each hand.

[Kyutaru]

Go with touch spells, the unarmed grappler wizard's best friend. If you're going to be in close anyway and constantly trying to touch people then at least fire off a spell when you succeed.

[Walk Hard]

Any tips on a race?

I have duergar, lizard folk and a couple others suggested.

I like the idea of the duergar for the enlarge that was mentioned before, but I do know they have the light sensitivity which I dont really want to deal with, any tips on getting around that or what race would benefit this build best?

[kazaryu]

Any tips on a race?

I have duergar, lizard folk and a couple others suggested.

I like the idea of the duergar for the enlarge that was mentioned before, but I do know they have the light sensitivity which I dont really want to deal with, any tips on getting around that or what race would benefit this build best?

Tortles not only get natural weapons, fhey also get a native ac17, which is the highest you can get for non magical light armor. Their native ability scores dont really boost cha or int, but thats not a huge deal imo since youre getting an asi 1 lvl later than goure starting. Meanwhile they do get str, and due to the native ac you can afford to not worry as much about dex.

If youre less worried about the natural weapons, half-elf is always a good shout if you decide to go for a cha based gish.

Gnomes mental resistances and int bonus can pair really well with a wizard int/wis saving throw proficiency, but now youre a small creature. So...meh?

Tabaxi get dex and their burat of speed thing. Which could come in hella handy for getting you out of dodge. The ability itself would also stack well with a bladesingers native boost to speed, even better if you cast longstrider. But overall i think tabaxi meshes better with cha based.

Edit: for the dueregar, i dont think there are amy easy solutions, unfortunately. Being a full caster gish gives mitigates the impact of light sensitivty, by allowing you to cast save based spells while its active. And in particular a bladesingers boost to AC(even becore casting shield) means you're generally less vulnerable to attacks. But both the wizard and bard options can instead use save based spells when afflicted with sensitivty. I think id recomend against going hexblade though, fewer spells to cast, and your best options (that are spammable) tend to be attack based.

[LudicSavant]

Aberration, not abberation.
Eberron, not ebberon.
One b, two rs.

[Kyutaru]

Any tips on a race?

I have duergar, lizard folk and a couple others suggested.

I like the idea of the duergar for the enlarge that was mentioned before, but I do know they have the light sensitivity which I dont really want to deal with, any tips on getting around that or what race would benefit this build best?
I'd go with one of the ones listed that have claws. That's a big advantage for a grappler.

I'd also invest into Vampiric Touch as a spell. It lasts for an entire minute and lets you touch your target repeatedly to drain their health and heal yourself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Loxodon if available has a trunk which can be used to grapple, so you can do that without occupying a hand. They also have powerful build so you can drag much larger creatures. This would work with pretty much any build you use, but they get bonuses to Con and Wis.

I've been playing a Human Lore Bard with one level of Life Cleric for heavy armor and shield proficiency, the Shield Master feat, high Str and expertise in Athletics. Standard tactics are to start out by grappling (attack) and shoving prone (bonus action) the physically strongest opponent, since a grappled creature can't stand up from prone due to having zero speed. The following rounds I'll use verbal-component-only spells like Vicious Mockery, Aura of Vitality, Dissonant Whispers, Healing Word, Blindness/Deafness, Faerie Fire, Command, etc. as needed, or just kick (unarmed strike) the prone opponent for 1+Str damage. My shield is a divine focus so it can be used to cast Cleric spells that require somatic components if they also require a material component, such as Bless or Shield of Faith.

With a Lizardfolk you could do something similar and use your bite while your hands are full. You'll just need to wait until an ASI to get Shield Master.

[8wGremlin]

So here's Two concepts for you.

Tortle Celestial Warlock.
They get a bonus to Str, and with Hex, you can make your opponent's Strength have disadvantage.
You have a high armour class, with out needing Dex.

(Pity you can't use UA as there is now a feat that gives you a shield proficiency and allows you to use it as a spell casting focus.)

Hex and Claws do ok damage, and you can also off-hand bonus action attack and get hex again.
Start with 16 Str and 15 Cha (with point buy) pick something like Celestial and you get Light and Sacred Flame cantrips for free and you can heal yourself and others a few times with your celestial light.


This one I've played

Arcane Kung Fu!

Human Variant Hexblade Warlock, with crossbow mastery; you can use Eldritch blast at point blank so be Arcane fist
You can punch them so hard that they move 10' away from you (Repelling blast invocation)
You get Medium Armour and shield, as well as Hex.