Reliable Passive Perception

[Rev666]

What effect would Reliable Talent have on your passive Perception?

Say you have wis of +3 and proficiency +5, you have a skill of +8 and passive 18.

With reliable talent you're literally incapable of getting below 18 anyway so how would that work?

[kazaryu]

What effect would Reliable Talent have on your passive Perception?

Say you have wis of +3 and proficiency +5, you have a skill of +8 and passive 18.

With reliable talent you're literally incapable of getting below 18 anyway so how would that work?

all that means is that your passive perception is the floor for a skill. thats essentially what reliable talent is designed to do. Take any proficient skill check you make, and give you the option to fall back on 'taking 10' (which in 5e is just your passive skill).

[Ketiara]

What effect would Reliable Talent have on your passive Perception?

Say you have wis of +3 and proficiency +5, you have a skill of +8 and passive 18.

With reliable talent you're literally incapable of getting below 18 anyway so how would that work?

Ive always thought of it the other way around. Every class has reliable talent in their passive perception. The Rogue gets reliable talent in every other skillcheck when they reach lvl 11.

[Tanarii]

Ive always thought of it the other way around. Every class has reliable talent in their passive perception. The Rogue gets reliable talent in every other skillcheck when they reach lvl 11.
Passive checks can't go above "rolling a ten", so to speak. Also they're used under two specific circumstances that the DM decides is appropriate. Either don't a task repeatedly or a secret check.


With reliable talent you're literally incapable of getting below 18 anyway so how would that work?
It works just like normal in terms of when you roll and when you don't. If you're actively searching for danger as you move along (doing the task repeatedly) or searching for danger but you don't know for sure it's there (secret check, and usually the case) then you use passive perception. If you're making a single check to relocate a danger you know is there (an enemy turned invisible or got behind cover or concealment then successfully hid) you roll, but can't roll lower than 10 on the die.

Since perception is almost always a passive perception check, it doesn't benefit from reliable talent very much.

[clash]

Reliable talent increases the average on the skill check from 10.5 to 12.75 so I would increase passive from a flat 10+modifiers to 12+modifiers but this obviously isn't raw.

[Tanarii]

Reliable talent increases the average on the skill check from 10.5 to 12.75 so I would increase passive from a flat 10+modifiers to 12+modifiers but this obviously isn't raw.
Reasonable house rule.

Similarly changing Observant to advantage on rolled checks and a flat +3 to passive would go a long way to make it a more balanced feat.

[Man_Over_Game]

Ive always thought of it the other way around. Every class has reliable talent in their passive perception. The Rogue gets reliable talent in every other skillcheck when they reach lvl 11.

I think that depends heavily on your DM. I don't ever apply your Passive skill values to things unless:
You're actively focusing on using that skill over a length of time, like when you're traveling and not doing something else.
The check was something you could have missed, and expecting the player to know to check for it is unrealistic (such as something zooming past in the nearby river).

#1 is to reward players for actively choosing to spend their time acting their character, which also rewards them for letting others take an active role in the direction of the party. It's effectively an active roll that's being checked all of the time, until the player decides he wants to do something else.

#2 is to avoid having players roll for things that they didn't ask for. Rolls are instinctively seen by players as Action, and you weaken the impact of dice rolls when you have your players roll for mundane things or things that don't provide any value to the players whether the roll is or isn't a success. I also want my players to get value on their skills, even when they don't know when they could, which is why I roll when I shouldn't expect the players to choose to make the check themselves. It's effectively a defensive value that I choose when it is relevant, like Player AC.

It's worked out rather well, and I don't have much reason to change. Not saying that other DMs don't have a reason to make their own decisions on the matter, I just mean that not everyone treats Passive Perception as a floor for every possible Perception Check in the game.

[Naanomi]

Observant feat also calls out for passive Investigation, so that should be kept in mind also.

Observant + Expertise in Perception + Reliable source of Advantage + Wisdom 20... Passive Perception 37? Plus a few magic items can squeeze in another point or two? You have to really start thinking about what a character *wouldn't* notice at that point

[OldTrees1]

What effect would Reliable Talent have on your passive Perception?

Say you have wis of +3 and proficiency +5, you have a skill of +8 and passive 18.

With reliable talent you're literally incapable of getting below 18 anyway so how would that work?

Reliable Talent only triggers when you roll the d20.
Passive is when you are not rolling the d20.

If you are allowed to use your Passive Perception, you get 10+mod. If you have advantage or Observant then you add +5 to that total.
If you are told to make an active check, then Reliable Talent gives a minimum result for the d20 roll. Modifiers are added afterwards.

Someone is sneaking up on you? Check your Passive Perception. 10+3+5+5 (Observant) = 23
Someone darts between 2 buildings? DM asked for an active Perception? 1d20 (minimum 10) +3+5 = 18-28 (average 20.75)

But there is some confusion over whether your passive is always your minimum. That would matter here since your passive is 23 and your active is 18-28. The player is tempted to ask "may I use my passive instead".

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However I like the house rules clash and Tanarii mentioned.

Reliable talent increases the average on the skill check from 10.5 to 12.75 so I would increase passive from a flat 10+modifiers to 12+modifiers but this obviously isn't raw.


Reasonable house rule.

Similarly changing Observant to advantage on rolled checks and a flat +3 to passive would go a long way to make it a more balanced feat.

Now what are your results:
Passive: 12+3+5+3 (Observant) = 23
Active: 2d20 (min 10) +3+5 = 18-28 (average 22.54)
Now the player is still tempted to ask "may I use my passive instead" almost every single time, but it is not as big a deal. Also it syncs the averages together so this Observant Rogue is in the same dilemma as all the other characters and their active vs passive qualms. So any further adjustment could be applied equally to the base rules.

[Hytheter]

Observant feat also calls out for passive Investigation

What does passive investigation even mean? I don't see how that makes any sense.

[stoutstien]

What does passive investigation even mean? I don't see how that makes any sense.

Yeah it's a fairly odd image. Personally I rule it as the ability to make connections subconsciously. So where perception allows you to pick up the information through your senses investigation allows you to connect them and form conclusions.

[Tanarii]

What does passive investigation even mean? I don't see how that makes any sense.
If means you are actively investigating:
- repeatedly (typically as you move along)
- a secret check to you the player (you are uncertain something actually there)

Simple examples would be moving along a corridor tying to deduce the location of trap pressure plates, or checking all the walls of a room for the secret door mechanism, or checking all the furniture in a house for secret compartments.

Edit: just in case you're unaware, "passive" means the player doesn't roll a die. Not the character doesn't do something actively.