Monsters with paladin smite spells

[Crucius]

Hey playground!

There are so many monsters, so I'm hoping your collective knowledge can help me with this: are there any monsters that can cast the paladin smite spells (thunderous smite, blinding smite etc)?

If not, why do you think that is?

[Unoriginal]

Hey playground!

There are so many monsters, so I'm hoping your collective knowledge can help me with this: are there any monsters that can cast the paladin smite spells (thunderous smite, blinding smite etc)?

The Death Knight from the MM has Searing Smite and Staggering Smite, the Blackguard from the Volo's has Branding Smite and Blinding Smite.

Also not quite the same thing but all of the Tieflings from Zariel's bloodline can cast Branding Smite once a day if they get powerful enough.

[stoutstien]

Very few if I recall correctly.
Who knows the actual reasoning behind it but IMO they are mostly pretty meh to start with. Wrathful smite being being the real big exception here and I've used it with good effect with homebrew NPCs.

[Crucius]

The Death Knight from the MM has Searing Smite and Staggering Smite, the Blackguard from the Volo's has Branding Smite and Blinding Smite.

Also not quite the same thing but all of the Tieflings from Zariel's bloodline can cast Branding Smite once a day if they get powerful enough.

Ayy cheers. Good to see that there are at least some monsters that have them, that way I can more confidently create my homebrew monster.


Very few if I recall correctly.
Who knows the actual reasoning behind it but IMO they are mostly pretty meh to start with. Wrathful smite being being the real big exception here and I've used it with good effect with homebrew NPCs.

I quite like them actually. Wrathful, thunderous and blinding smite are very solid crowd control spells. They strangely enough work best on a non-paladin gish, but they really shine then.

[stoutstien]

I quite like them actually. Wrathful, thunderous and blinding smite are very solid crowd control spells. They strangely enough work best on a non-paladin gish, but they really shine then.

The problem I ran into when trying to use them with Homebrew is it takes four separate occurrences for them to work. You need a bonus action to cast the spell, some way of attacking which usually involves an action, a successful attack, and finally the target needs to fail a save. Once you stack concentration requirements on top of this and being limited to melee they fall flat.

It's at an easier just to add on hit effects to an NPCs attack

[MrStabby]

I quite like them actually. Wrathful, thunderous and blinding smite are very solid crowd control spells. They strangely enough work best on a non-paladin gish, but they really shine then.

I actually think they are great on a Paladin. As concentration spells they really benefit from the paladin aura of protection and similarly from a paladin access to heavy armour. Paladins also get enough bonuses from high charisma that they will have high DC.

[HappyDaze]

It's at an easier just to add on hit effects to an NPCs attack

Very much so. As an example, the Lizard King/Queen has Skewer which is just so much easier to use.

[Crucius]

The problem I ran into when trying to use them with Homebrew is it takes four separate occurrences for them to work. You need a bonus action to cast the spell, some way of attacking which usually involves an action, a successful attack, and finally the target needs to fail a save. Once you stack concentration requirements on top of this and being limited to melee they fall flat.

It's at an easier just to add on hit effects to an NPCs attack

Yeah it does suck that you have to hit AND they have to fail a save before it becomes something noteworthy, but I like the fact that you can hold on to your spell until you hit with an attack, due to the concentration.

[Crucius]

Very much so. As an example, the Lizard King/Queen has Skewer which is just so much easier to use.

I would agree with you, but I want to use more spells on my monsters, so I kinda need them to be spells here. We'll see how it works. If it sucks I will never do it again :smallbiggrin:

[Unoriginal]

It doesn't cause any problem from a mechanical perspective (unless you count having to check the PHB for what the spell does exactly rather than just reading the statblock as a problem), it's just thematically those spells are Paladin spells, so the creatures who have them tend to be related to Paladins one way or another

[JNAProductions]

It doesn't cause any problem from a mechanical perspective (unless you count having to check the PHB for what the spell does exactly rather than just reading the statblock as a problem), it's just thematically those spells are Paladin spells, so the creatures who have them tend to be related to Paladins one way or another

Imposing Blow
As a bonus action, [CREATURE] readies an imposing blow, requiring their Concentration, which can be maintained for up to one minute. Their next attack that hits deals an extra 1d6 psychic damage, and the creature hit must make a Wisdom Saving throw of DC X, becoming frightened of [CREATURE] on a failed save. As an action, the frightened creature may make a Wisdom check against the same DC to shake off the effect.


None of the mechanics inherently scream "Paladin". It's a bit of extra damage and a status effect.

[Unoriginal]

Imposing Blow
As a bonus action, [CREATURE] readies an imposing blow, requiring their Concentration, which can be maintained for up to one minute. Their next attack that hits deals an extra 1d6 psychic damage, and the creature hit must make a Wisdom Saving throw of DC X, becoming frightened of [CREATURE] on a failed save. As an action, the frightened creature may make a Wisdom check against the same DC to shake off the effect.


None of the mechanics inherently scream "Paladin". It's a bit of extra damage and a status effect.

...yes? Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Smite spells are thematically related to Paladins. A power which has basically the same effect but isn't a Smite spell won't be thematically related to the Paladin.

[JNAProductions]

...yes? Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Smite spells are thematically related to Paladins. A power which has basically the same effect but isn't a Smite spell won't be thematically related to the Paladin.

Unless you actively say "The monster is casting Wrathful Smite," the mechanics have nothing particularly thematic to do with Paladins.

I made a monster that had a bunch of uniquely Cleric spells. They aren't a Cleric. They aren't in any way related to gods. The mechanics of the spells just fit well.

[Unoriginal]

Unless you actively say "The monster is casting Wrathful Smite," the mechanics have nothing particularly thematic to do with Paladins.

Indeed, the mechanics have nothing to do with it. It's the fact it's a Smite spell, as written on the statblock, which makes the relation.

And while the DM saying the name of the spell is not my favored method, there are ways both during and after the facts to identify which spells are used, or someone either in- or out-of-universe can recognize the effects and make a guess.



I made a monster that had a bunch of uniquely Cleric spells. They aren't a Cleric. They aren't in any way related to gods. The mechanics of the spells just fit well.

Which spells do you consider "uniquely Cleric" ones, here?

[JNAProductions]

Stuff like Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and... I think those were the only two, actually, that are uniquely Cleric spells on their list.

[Unoriginal]

Stuff like Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and... I think those were the only two, actually, that are uniquely Cleric spells on their list.

Would you say that there is an expectation that the two uniquely Cleric spells on the list are used uniquely by Clerics or Cleric-like beings?


For example, if the PCs are in a dungeon and see a dwarf with a Spiritual Weapon active fight a Troll, would they likely expect the dwarf to have Cleric-related powers?

[HappyDaze]

Would you say that there is an expectation that the two uniquely Cleric spells on the list are used uniquely by Clerics or Cleric-like beings?

Until exceptions exist, then definitely yes. If exceptions exist but are rare, then still likely yes.

[JNAProductions]

Would you say that there is an expectation that the two uniquely Cleric spells on the list are used uniquely by Clerics or Cleric-like beings?

For example, if the PCs are in a dungeon and see a dwarf with a Spiritual Weapon active fight a Troll, would they likely expect the dwarf to have Cleric-related powers?

Nope. Not at all.

Spiritual Weapon is a BA attack melee summon.
Spirit Guardians is an aura of damage and difficult terrain.

Neither of those are inherently tied to being pious.

[Unoriginal]

Nope. Not at all.

Spiritual Weapon is a BA attack melee summon.
Spirit Guardians is an aura of damage and difficult terrain.

Neither of those are inherently tied to being pious.

Yet you're the one who qualified them of "uniquely Cleric spells". What make them uniquely Cleric spells if there is no expectation they are uniquely used by Clerics?

[JNAProductions]

Yet you're the one who qualified them of "uniquely Cleric spells". Why?

Because they only show up on the Cleric spell list for PCs.

[Unoriginal]

Because they only show up on the Cleric spell list for PCs.

So outside of exceptions, only Clerics have access to them?


Keep in mind I am not saying "there is an expectation for BA attack melee summon and/or aura of damage and difficult terrain to be Cleric-only", I am saying "there is an expectation that those two specific spells are used by Clerics and related beings and not by others".

[JNAProductions]

So outside of exceptions, only Clerics have access to them?

For PCs, only Clerics have them. Or Theurgy Wizards. Or Bards using their Magical Secrets to snag them.

But nothing in the effects of "Summon a mobile melee attack, using your Bonus Action," or "Aura of difficult terrain and damage" screams "faithful" to me.

[Unoriginal]

For PCs, only Clerics have them. Or Theurgy Wizards. Or Bards using their Magical Secrets to snag them.
But nothing in the effects of "Summon a mobile melee attack, using your Bonus Action," or "Aura of difficult terrain and damage" screams "faithful" to me.

I agree. However, I never said that it was the effects that makes those spells linked to the class. I've said the contrary, in fact.

Shillelagh is a Druid-only spell, it makes sense to me to expect someone who uses it to be a Druid or a being related to druidism like a Fey. Spiritual Weapon is a Cleric-only spell, it makes sense to me to expect someone who uses it to be a Cleric or related being.

And Smite spells tend to show up in the arsenal of beings linked to the Paladin one way or another because Smite spells are thematically linked to the Paladin.

Spells are more than just effects, they're distinct parts of the world.