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View Full Version : DM Help Need help creating a memorable lich lair



TrashPastor110
2020-08-12, 01:35 AM
So my current campaign revolves around a lich as the BBEG is coming to an end, and the players will be confronting the lich in his lair. I've been ruminating over what exactly his lair will be comprised of. I am currently planning on creating some sort of boss rush like sequence of rooms of bosses they previously fought. But I do not feel that this is climactic enough for the end of my campaign. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-12, 01:59 AM
A study that looks like it was decorated by a kleptomaniac crow. Stuff everywhere. Runes and chalk sigils everywhere.

Kol Korran
2020-08-12, 02:07 AM
Can you tell us more about this lich? What was it's plan? Where is it now?
And the party as well?

It might help us advise better

TrashPastor110
2020-08-12, 02:22 AM
Can you tell us more about this lich? What was it's plan? Where is it now?
And the party as well?

It might help us advise better

So he became a lich against his will, and his influx of souls are siphoned from a location where many people die, so when they die in that location he recieves their souls (meaning that he doesn't have to directly kill people to live). Upon becoming a lich, he foresaw an invasion of eldritch horrors, and attempted to unite the humanoids and the monster races together to face this new, bigger threat. But one mistake followed another, and an all out war was forged between the monster races and the humanoids, with the lich being seen as the mastermind behind the war, commanding the monster races.
The party (level 16) has finally tracked down the lich's lair which is hidden within a massive mountain. The party will approach with a sizable army of humanoids who will fight off undead surrounding his lair while the party invades, accompanied by three powerful wizards who specialize in casting spells capable of preventing the lich from using magic to escape.
P.s. I think I'll be abandoning the boss rush idea, as the bosses I had used were very situational and geographic based, so using them wouldn't make much sense. Instead I plan on having the party face a few strong undead before confronting the lich.

Mastikator
2020-08-12, 05:05 AM
Why won't the bosses in the other rooms notice that they're being wiped out in sequential order? Because they're not directly next to each other! Teleport Circles connect the rooms and are the only way in to the next room. Only the boss in each room (plus the next bosses) can activate the teleportation circle, they have a special ring or whatever. And since there might be traffic downstream the party must not delay or the next boss may be warned and will warn their upper bosses.

aglondier
2020-08-12, 08:00 AM
I would suggest that due to DM fiat, only the actual PCs make it into the lair proper.

The lair itself? The Lichs War Room. The place where his war against the eldritch horrors is planned out. Let the players explore it unmolested until they realise the extent of how shafted their world is thanks to the lichs failures.

Then have him slip into the room, calm, reasonable..."Congratulations on a well fought campaign. You have defeated me at every turn. My armies crushed, my plots thwarted, my rule at an end...But tell me," waves expansively at his sandtable, "Was it worth it?"

gijoemike
2020-08-12, 11:16 AM
I second the war room idea. As the PCs begin to breach each magically guarded layer of the base have them discover the history of what the lich has done. Soon they discover that his lich was a major sponsor early on of the very mage guild the 3 wizards are members of. The lich has been funding armies on both sides for 100s of years. Find journals and plans for the lich avoiding human and elven casualties of major strategic locations.

Then the find where the plans shift, instead of making the races work together he makes everyone go to war. Only through intense conflict will they forge heroes strong enough to withstand the coming hell. Find absurd plans and dungeons built in the full Gygaxian style. Its a death trap so the PCs get experience. The layout doesn't make sense so the PC's will begin to expect the thought processes of the looming outsiders.

Finally, they reach the inner rooms. They find thousands of tactical plans in realms unheard of. The lich came to the realization they just cannot win if they wait for the outsiders. He has plans for a suicide squad style assault in the far outer realms for the best of the best. It could delay the outsiders for several centuries. Hopefully your players will realize that means them.

When you finally reach the lich, have him explain the PCs are creations best hope, he is the last test before the real war starts, and have your BBEG lich wish the heroes luck against him in the fight. Perhaps to go so far as to have a war table in the middle of the last room that has in game the actual miniatures you use to represent the PC and lich on your game table. Then during the fight have the lich yell out better tactical choices to the PCs, or have him scold the wizards and pcs for their poor placement. Make the final battle HIS magum opus of tactical instruction. If doesn't matter if he loses, it only matters that the far realms LOSE. Make sure are 2 scrolls of true resurrection in the blast proof safe behind him next to his finalized assault plans, and next to that have a special intergalactic transportation item for the "strike team".

Democratus
2020-08-12, 03:34 PM
I would suggest that due to DM fiat, only the actual PCs make it into the lair proper.

The lair itself? The Lichs War Room. The place where his war against the eldritch horrors is planned out. Let the players explore it unmolested until they realise the extent of how shafted their world is thanks to the lichs failures.

Then have him slip into the room, calm, reasonable..."Congratulations on a well fought campaign. You have defeated me at every turn. My armies crushed, my plots thwarted, my rule at an end...But tell me," waves expansively at his sandtable, "Was it worth it?"

Whatever I was going to write when I clicked in here - this is much better! :smallcool:

Fantastic.

WindStruck
2020-08-12, 03:40 PM
I would suggest that due to DM fiat, only the actual PCs make it into the lair proper.

The lair itself? The Lichs War Room. The place where his war against the eldritch horrors is planned out. Let the players explore it unmolested until they realise the extent of how shafted their world is thanks to the lichs failures.

Then have him slip into the room, calm, reasonable..."Congratulations on a well fought campaign. You have defeated me at every turn. My armies crushed, my plots thwarted, my rule at an end...But tell me," waves expansively at his sandtable, "Was it worth it?"

Seems rather hamfisted to me if this sort of thing wasn't planned out in advance, and there were no hints or foreshadowing.

Don't do this unless you want to be a jerk DM.

Democratus
2020-08-12, 03:48 PM
Seems rather hamfisted to me if this sort of thing wasn't planned out in advance, and there were no hints or foreshadowing.

Don't do this unless you want to be a jerk DM.

I don't follow. A jerk DM would have rocks fall and kill everyone. Or maybe have the entire party arrive only to be instantly killed by the 200 symbols on the floor.

How is setting up a situation where the villain gets to monologue being a jerk? It's Villainy 101

JNAProductions
2020-08-12, 04:21 PM
I don't follow. A jerk DM would have rocks fall and kill everyone. Or maybe have the entire party arrive only to be instantly killed by the 200 symbols on the floor.

How is setting up a situation where the villain gets to monologue being a jerk? It's Villainy 101

It's a jerk move because it's basically saying "Your good deeds are all for naught, and instead you've screwed everyone."

If it's followed by a clear path to fighting the abominations and saving the world forever (or at least a long time) then it's just continuing the adventure, but using it as a "Ha-ha! You done screwed up!" is just mean.

Darth Credence
2020-08-12, 04:27 PM
If the idea is that the lich would show them that he was really fighting the good fight, and Azatoth is going to wake up because of it, then I could certainly see the players deciding that was a jerk DM move. It basically boils down to 'Everything you thought was happening in this campaign wasn't, and now that you know what you were actually doing, game over.'
If the idea is that they can then turn and fight the eldritch abominations and have a possibility at success, then great, sounds like a fun continuation.

Edit: in other words, what JNA said.

aglondier
2020-08-13, 02:18 AM
I would suggest that due to DM fiat, only the actual PCs make it into the lair proper.

The lair itself? The Lichs War Room. The place where his war against the eldritch horrors is planned out. Let the players explore it unmolested until they realise the extent of how shafted their world is thanks to the lichs failures.

Then have him slip into the room, calm, reasonable..."Congratulations on a well fought campaign. You have defeated me at every turn. My armies crushed, my plots thwarted, my rule at an end...But tell me," waves expansively at his sandtable, "Was it worth it?"


I second the war room idea. As the PCs begin to breach each magically guarded layer of the base have them discover the history of what the lich has done. Soon they discover that his lich was a major sponsor early on of the very mage guild the 3 wizards are members of. The lich has been funding armies on both sides for 100s of years. Find journals and plans for the lich avoiding human and elven casualties of major strategic locations.

Then the find where the plans shift, instead of making the races work together he makes everyone go to war. Only through intense conflict will they forge heroes strong enough to withstand the coming hell. Find absurd plans and dungeons built in the full Gygaxian style. Its a death trap so the PCs get experience. The layout doesn't make sense so the PC's will begin to expect the thought processes of the looming outsiders.

Finally, they reach the inner rooms. They find thousands of tactical plans in realms unheard of. The lich came to the realization they just cannot win if they wait for the outsiders. He has plans for a suicide squad style assault in the far outer realms for the best of the best. It could delay the outsiders for several centuries. Hopefully your players will realize that means them.

When you finally reach the lich, have him explain the PCs are creations best hope, he is the last test before the real war starts, and have your BBEG lich wish the heroes luck against him in the fight. Perhaps to go so far as to have a war table in the middle of the last room that has in game the actual miniatures you use to represent the PC and lich on your game table. Then during the fight have the lich yell out better tactical choices to the PCs, or have him scold the wizards and pcs for their poor placement. Make the final battle HIS magum opus of tactical instruction. If doesn't matter if he loses, it only matters that the far realms LOSE. Make sure are 2 scrolls of true resurrection in the blast proof safe behind him next to his finalized assault plans, and next to that have a special intergalactic transportation item for the "strike team".


It's a jerk move because it's basically saying "Your good deeds are all for naught, and instead you've screwed everyone."

If it's followed by a clear path to fighting the abominations and saving the world forever (or at least a long time) then it's just continuing the adventure, but using it as a "Ha-ha! You done screwed up!" is just mean.

I was throwing out ideas. Gijoemike came up with an excellent continuation of the idea, which I am definitely going to use myself. JNA added nothing...

Alcore
2020-08-13, 05:46 AM
I put one of mine in a clocktower. Much like Roy during his stint in Heaven (comic reference there) a lich as an undead doesn't have much left to tell time with. Usually it is in fact nothing; by RAW a lich doesn't need to absorb or consume anything in most fantasy settings/systems. If they seclude themselves into a study for some "light reading" weeks or months could go by unless the interference of minions happens

So he had a building sized timepiece to help keep him grounded with the mortals he lived with.

hifidelity2
2020-08-13, 06:10 AM
I would suggest that due to DM fiat, only the actual PCs make it into the lair proper.

The lair itself? The Lichs War Room. The place where his war against the eldritch horrors is planned out. Let the players explore it unmolested until they realise the extent of how shafted their world is thanks to the lichs failures.

Then have him slip into the room, calm, reasonable..."Congratulations on a well fought campaign. You have defeated me at every turn. My armies crushed, my plots thwarted, my rule at an end...But tell me," waves expansively at his sandtable, "Was it worth it?"



Seems rather hamfisted to me if this sort of thing wasn't planned out in advance, and there were no hints or foreshadowing.

Don't do this unless you want to be a jerk DM.


I disagree - this sets up a nice moral dilemma for the party - If they work with the Lich they may well win the war and defeat the real threat to the world.

Will they be able to work with a lich. If they don't and kill it what happens next (its a new BBEG to kill)

This is the sort of thing my players would love as they like things "Gray"and not just black and white

WindStruck
2020-08-13, 07:46 AM
But again, you need proper hints and foreshadowing...

Anyway, sorry, but I did miss the story part that explained the eldritch horrors. If it's all been setup properly sure! You might as well try and see if getting the heroes to work with the lich does the trick. :smallsmile:

Edit: I am just curious... so... this Lich never bothered trying to inform anyone about the impending danger? They.. simply tried to subtly unite all the races without telling anyone anything?

JNAProductions
2020-08-13, 09:25 AM
I was throwing out ideas. Gijoemike came up with an excellent continuation of the idea, which I am definitely going to use myself. JNA added nothing...

Technically, if you suggested "Their lair should be an instant death trap for anyone who's not undead and the PCs should all die with no save," that's an idea. Would I be wrong to point out that that's a bad idea?

Something like what you suggested generally requires a decent amount of prep work, not the least of which is laying hints that the players can look back on and say "Oh my god, we could've realized this if we were paying more attention!" Throwing in a twist for the sake of having a twist is just bad form.

So, to the OP-how much foreshadowing have you had? Could the players have realized that this lich is, perhaps, not all bad if they were paying enough attention? Will they feel that the continuation is well-merited, or will they feel it's cheap?

Also, another question-do the players think this is the finale? And are they good with it being the finale? Something you could do is run a generational campaign-this group of adventurers finishes off the lich, and as they loot the lair and do their thing over the following epilogue, they realize what the lich was doing. Being a little too old and possibly injured to handle it themselves, they begin training the next generation of heroes-possibly their own kids, possibly unrelated people. Then, you can start the next campaign at, say, level five, with a bunch of super-charged gear from their mentors (the current PCs). Their mission, to stop the eldritch abominations once and for all, that the old guard only realized was a true threat too late.

Vahnavoi
2020-08-13, 02:00 PM
It's a jerk move because it's basically saying "Your good deeds are all for naught, and instead you've screwed everyone."


That is called a twist ending and is par for the course in any genre that takes eldritch abominations seriously. :smalltongue:

My suggestion to the OP: if you liked the war room idea, I'd suggest you adopt some ideas from Lamentations of the Flame Princess modules. I'm going to be channeling Tower of the Stargazer and Death Frost Doom here. Few key ideas to keep in mind:

1) after the player characters break into the lich's lair, there should be a lull in fighting. Inside the lair, if the characters behave like polite guests, nothing should harm them before they get to the lich.

2) the lich itself is in the furthest corner of the complex - such as, say, the very top of a stargazing tower at the peak of a hard-to-climb mountain. However, there should be a simple, common sense route to the lich - follow the stairs upward, take the elevator to the top floor and there you go. The temporal and spatial distance exists to give the players a chance to absorb their surroundings and think about what they're seeing. Evoke magical defenses if you have to, but only the minimum necessary to actually consider taking the long way.

3) there should be plenty of purely optional secret and side areas that are out of the way, but beg the player's curiosity. These can and should be highly lethal and unfair - they are the places where no polite guest would stumble even accidentally. The lich's magic library, laboratories, treasure room, prisom cells - the places the lich would've wanted to keep guarded when things were still going fine for it.

4) if the PCs just cut the chase and deal with the lich at first opportunity and destroy it without parley, they should have ample time to explore the rest of the complex and come to realize the truth of things on their own. If necessary, you can spin this as sort of epilogue, where the PCs just have to go through the motions to secure the lich's phylactery. There is no phylactery and there should be ample hints pointing towards this.

Some specific things you should place in there:

A) chamber of the head servant - along with their diary, including their reasoning for serving (or defecting from) the lich.

B) the lich' s personal chambers, including a well-perused book dealing specifically with eldritch abominations and how to commune with them.

C) a giant telescope, crystal ball, planar gate or other scrying device that can be used to look directly at the eldritch abomination that's a problem. The instructions on how to use it should be complex and scattered around the lair, acquirable even if the PCs never talk to the lich. Following the instructions should lead to a really bad outcome for at least one PC in a "no save, just die" fashion. The PCs should have a chance to irreparably destroy the device, either because they want to or because they didn't read the instructions.

D) A statue, of a celestial being of some kind, promising a Wish from a suitable good god, on one condition: anyone who wishes to pass, must lay their most precious possession at its feet as a sacrifice. If a character puts down any material possession of their, the statue instantly incinerates that character in a "no save, just die" fashion. The material possession will be left entirely intact. If a character places or forces another at the feet of the statue, whoever is put there is allowed to pass without difficulty - but whoever put them there is, again, incinerated. If a character lies down themselves, kneels, rips out their own heart, gouges out their brain, or some similar act of submission, they will survive, even miraculously so, and be allowed to pass. Beyond the statue, for those it lets pass, is indeed an astral gateway to the named god, and each visiting person will get a single wish. If the PCs try to force their way past the statue, it will come to life and act as a standard combat encounter. Nothing can be found beyond it if it is destroyed, though. There can be a dust-covered pile of seemingly abandoned belongings at the feet of the statue.

E) A closed door with a brass knocker and handles in the shape of serpents, dragons, demons or other suitably menacing things. If the knocker is used, or a character otherwise mundanely knocks on the door (like a polite guest would) , it will open by itself and let the group pass without harm. If someone grabs the handles and tries to open the door without knocking, the handles will spring to life and induce a suitable save-or-die effect on the character. The door will react proportionately badly to all other attempts the PCs might think of to pointlessly force their way through it.

F) A collection of bodyparts etc. detailing exactly what horrible things can happen to a person should they come into contact with eldritch abominations.

G) dissected corpses of eldritch abominations in plain view, safe if not disturbed, but including valuable components (rare spell ingredients, alchemy tools, gemstones etc.) near or in their bodies that might draw the PCs attention. If disturbed, these corpses will come to life and pose a significant threat.

H) A holding cell full of living abominations and their victims. If the PCs break in here, all of them will attack and attempt to escape, and if the PCs insist on fighting them, this should be difficult enough that it will make fighting the lich an undesireable prospect. They cannot follow the PCs to other parts of the lair, however.

I) A powerful evil being trapped in a magic circle. It is desperate to get out and will promise the PCs the moon and stars should they let it free. It will even promise to take care of the lich for them - and it can and will follow through, if the PCs just take the offer. Of course, this will be a bad thing, as the evil being will then let all the abominations run rampant, but the PCs might not know that yet. If the PCs ignore, insult or otherwise treat the being badly, its facade of amiability and co-operation will quickly fade and it will be twice as nasty to the PCs as they are to it.

paddyfool
2020-08-18, 10:59 AM
Definitely give the PCs ample chance to discover the truth before they meet him.
Maybe have them discover his researches into the otherworldly threat, maybe have a high ranking minion give them a "fools! You'll doom this world!" speech, maybe have him gate in an archon and send it their way to request a parlay, maybe sow other seeds of doubt as to his being evil by discovering he's looking after some refugees of the conflict, etc.

hoverfrog
2020-08-19, 10:06 AM
So he became a lich against his will, and his influx of souls are siphoned from a location where many people die, so when they die in that location he recieves their souls (meaning that he doesn't have to directly kill people to live). Upon becoming a lich, he foresaw an invasion of eldritch horrors, and attempted to unite the humanoids and the monster races together to face this new, bigger threat. But one mistake followed another, and an all out war was forged between the monster races and the humanoids, with the lich being seen as the mastermind behind the war, commanding the monster races.
The party (level 16) has finally tracked down the lich's lair which is hidden within a massive mountain. The party will approach with a sizable army of humanoids who will fight off undead surrounding his lair while the party invades, accompanied by three powerful wizards who specialize in casting spells capable of preventing the lich from using magic to escape.
P.s. I think I'll be abandoning the boss rush idea, as the bosses I had used were very situational and geographic based, so using them wouldn't make much sense. Instead I plan on having the party face a few strong undead before confronting the lich.

Perhaps have the lair feature a large cloning hall where those who died have been cloned ready for resurrection if their souls can be freed and still survive.

If there is a bigger threat that the lich wants to stop then his lair should have abundant evidence of his plans and actions. He should be more than willing to discuss them and might even have a final attempt at recruiting the party to his side, "When I have defeated you, your souls will be implanted into the artificial bodies I have prepared for you so that you may fight on for me against the true enemy."

I would have the three powerful wizards wiped out in one hit after casting their spells to prevent escape. This forces the party to attack in a hurry. Make the mission time sensitive to raise tension.

Use plenty of summoned monsters for the party to fight. Earth elementals to drag them underground, air elementals to knock them off high bridges, water elementals to drown them in the water room that they must swim through to reach the next room, etc, etc.

Man_Over_Game
2020-08-19, 06:32 PM
I disagree - this sets up a nice moral dilemma for the party - If they work with the Lich they may well win the war and defeat the real threat to the world.

Will they be able to work with a lich. If they don't and kill it what happens next (its a new BBEG to kill)

This is the sort of thing my players would love as they like things "Gray"and not just black and white

It worked for Fable 3. People liked that, it was a bunch of other things that they didn't like about it.



Edit: I am just curious... so... this Lich never bothered trying to inform anyone about the impending danger? They.. simply tried to subtly unite all the races without telling anyone anything?

To be fair, he's a Lich. Being paranoid and sociopathic is kinda part of the gig. Same thing happened to Kalimvor. And just like in Fable 3, your brother basically did the same thing to the point where the entire kingdom wanted to overthrow him.


So he became a lich against his will

So this guy was turned into a lich while still likely having human desires and habits. If you want his lair to be memorable, make it...human. Or at least reminiscent of one.

Maybe he has a note on his desk reminding him of which paintings are booby-trapped and which ones hides his Invisibility Wand. Maybe he has a "pet" undead baby dragon that's a guardian in the dungeon. Maybe he has a kitchen that's completely decrepit and never has been used (as he originally planned on doing "human" things with people when he started his lair", and other things that really seem odd for a Lich but not so much for a human.

Tvtyrant
2020-08-19, 09:58 PM
So my current campaign revolves around a lich as the BBEG is coming to an end, and the players will be confronting the lich in his lair. I've been ruminating over what exactly his lair will be comprised of. I am currently planning on creating some sort of boss rush like sequence of rooms of bosses they previously fought. But I do not feel that this is climactic enough for the end of my campaign. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Library where all of the books are sentient animated objects that read spells off of themselves at the party.

Kaptin Keen
2020-08-20, 12:24 AM
A thing that's always bothered me about the lairs of powerful undead is that it's almost invariably in some decrepit ruin. And powerful undead have the perfect workforce for keeping their lairs in pristine, sparkling condition: Skeletons that never need to rest, never get bored, and obey orders unflinchingly and without question.

When I design a lair, that's what I try to keep in mind. Skeletons (or other undead) for everything. Based on nothing but the humble skeleton, you could have running water and automatic doors, and depending on some interpretations gas light, ovens, central heating. You could have elevators. An inventive lich could be living a ... no, strike that, existing in ways unimaginable to the dirtgrubbing masses.

Aliess
2020-08-20, 02:36 AM
Sounds like a great idea and could be a fun change of pace for the end of campaign as the players put together the pieces behind the lich's behaviour rather than just fighting their way up a tower.

A laboratory of humanoid specimens that look like the lich has been doing some weird mutation on various creatures, but a deep read of its notes shows that it has been sending people out to the eldritch home plane to see which ones can last the longest without becoming horrific, crazy messes.

An illusionary diary room that records all the times the lich tried to help the various local nations get ready for the invasion, why it went wrong and how the lich ended up as the big evil.

A stargate to the abberants home realm for launching a counterstrike/collecting samples

The training area - A room or two packed with every illusion and sense effecting spell you can find to simulate how weird being the eldritch plane of chaos will be.

The OMG room - Like a war room, but tracking historical breaches between realms over the last thousand years, rather than the plan for what to do next. On a quick investigation it might look like the lich was working with hundreds of cults across the world to summon in your great old one. A decent investigation (or just sitting down and going through all of the notes properly) will reveal that there 777 days (or other dramatic number) left before the stars align and the world goes mad. No clue here though as to who's side the lich is on though (Save that for the war and diary rooms).

paddyfool
2020-08-22, 01:28 AM
Idea for one of those past mistakes that might deserve a diary entry: what if a big battle between the lich's faction and the humanoids occured because he tried to manipulate matters so that two opposing armies marching to meet each other would be interrupted by an anticipated breach, and he had hoped they would be able and motivated to cooperate to deal with it... only the breach never materialised.