Feedback for my first homebrewed subclass

[Rivaler]

Hi everyone!

I'm about to introduce a homebrewed martial archetype into my campaign, the Knight of Edryn, who is the goddess of water, life and time in my setting.

Being my very first homebrew addition to the rules, I could really use some help from you great folks with balancing features and making sure I didn't go too overboard with them!

Any feedback and suggestion is GREATLY appreciated!



Knight of Edryn

Hailing from the fortress sanctuary of Edryn in North Slate, the order of the Knights of Edryn is vowed to protection of life from the forces of darkness, without taking part in politics. A Knight of Edryn is a beacon of hope for the people he protects with the powers bestowed onto him by the goddess, allowing him to shape his sacred water into ice weapons, symbol of his order.

Goddess' Gift
Upon choosing this archetype at 3rd level, the fighter obtains a waterskin filled with sacred water. This water is his, can't be used by other knights of Edryn, and is used to fuel most of his abilities.

As a bonus action, the Knight of Edryn can magically recall his sacred water to his waterskin, returning it to it's liquid state if necessary. This feature fails if water is further than 300 feet away from the knight, if it's on another plane of existance or if there are no paths that would allow water, in any state, to flow back to the waterskin (e.g. if it's in a sealed bottled).

As part of a long rest, the Knight of Edryn can blass a new water-filled waterskin. At the end of the rest, his previous waterskin and sacred water return to being normal, and he can use the new waterskin and sacred water for his abilities.

Mastery of Water
At 3rd level, the Knight of Edryn learns the Shape Water cantrip. Wisdom is the spellcasting ability for this spell.

When he targets his sacred water with Shape Water, the cantrip has the following variants:

It can be cast with a bonus action
It can shape, liquify and freeze water using the same action
Objects created with ice have an AC of 10 + his wisdom modifier, and double his fighter levels in hp


He can also use Shape Water to give his sacred water the shape of ice weapons and shields. Weapons created this way take the name of Flowing Weapons. A Knight of Edryn can create one of the following combinations, which can be wielded as part of creation and disappear when the knight uses Shape Water on his sacred water:


One two-handed melee weapon
One one-handed melee weapon and a shield
Two one-handed melee weapons
One one-handed melee weapon


When the Knight of Edryn attacks with his flowing weapons, he can use his Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for his attack and damage rolls.

Divine Fencing
At 7th level, the knight's flowing weapons count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

River's Wrath
At 7th level, the Knight of Edryn gains a number of Water Charges equal to double his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), which he regains with a rest. The knight can expend his Water Charges in one of the following ways:

He can use a bonus action to grant his current flowing weapons, and any he creates while this effect is active, a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to number of charges expended, up to a maximum determined by the Water Charges table. This effect ends after a minute or when the knight is incapacitated.
He can make his flowing weapons levitate and attack far away targets, orchestrating them with his hands. As a bonus action, he can expend one of his Water Charges to make the flowing weapons he is currently wielding have a reach of 30 feet untill the end of his turn.


Water Charges Table


Fighter Levels
Max Bonus
Expended Water Charges


3rd
+1
1


10th
+2
2


18th
+3
3



Edryn's Favor
At 10th level, the Knight of Edryn gains a swim speed equal to his movement speed. If he already has a swim speed, or he later gains it, that speed is increased by 10 feet.

Mastery of Life
At 10th level, the Knight of Edryn can draw power from the dominion over life of the goddess.

When the Knight of Edryn uses Second Wind, he heals an additional d10 hit points and he can expend one of his Water Charges to make a target within 30 feet regain the same amount of health.

Lake's Stillness
At 15th level, the Knight of Edryn can expend one of his Water Charges to dissolve his flowing weapons, if currently active, and cast the Shield spell. Wisdom is the spellcasting modifier for the spell.

When cast this way, Shield appears as an ice dome covering the knight, and can't be dispelled.

Water's Grace
At 15th level, the Knight of Edryn gains proficiency in acrobatics and the maximum Water Charges he can have becomes triple his Wisdom Modifier (minimum 1). If he is already proficient in acrobatics, he instead gains expertise in acrobatics.

Mastery of Time
At 18th level, the Knight of Edryn is favored by the goddess, and can draw power from her dominion over time.

When the Knight of Edryn uses his Actions Surge, his movement speed doubles, as time around him slows down, and if he uses the gained action to take the attack action, he can expend one of his Water Charges to make an extra attack.

[Amnestic]

I like the idea of the water charges as a secondary resource although it's a bit limited right now.

Lake's Stillness is, in my opinion, underpowered and clunky. It costs a water charge to use, a reaction, a bonus action to get your flowing weapons back and potentially additional water charges and *another* bonus action to rebuff them with River's Wrath. At no more than 5 charges per short/long rest *at most*, that's a big investment, potentially wiping out your entire stockpile just so you can cast shield (Buff +2->Shield->Rebuff +2). Changing it to not interact at all with your flowing weapons and just cost a single water charge seems more than reasonable.

Speaking of, you should probably scale the amount of charges at some point. If you want to not change stuff too much, I'd probably increase your pool to double WisMod at 15th.

Alternatively if you want to expand its features, shift watercharges to 3rd along with Lake's Stillness, and pepper in some more water-themed spells along the levels, with doubling your charges at 10th instead. Then double it again (so 4x WisMod) at 18th.

Flowing weapons are flavourful but not terribly interesting. Perhaps offer additional water charge buffs at higher levels to imitate other magic weapon features? Elemental damage or the like.

Cool concept though.

[Rivaler]

I like the idea of the water charges as a secondary resource although it's a bit limited right now.

Lake's Stillness is, in my opinion, underpowered and clunky. It costs a water charge to use, a reaction, a bonus action to get your flowing weapons back and potentially additional water charges and *another* bonus action to rebuff them with River's Wrath. At no more than 5 charges per short/long rest *at most*, that's a big investment, potentially wiping out your entire stockpile just so you can cast shield (Buff +2->Shield->Rebuff +2). Changing it to not interact at all with your flowing weapons and just cost a single water charge seems more than reasonable.

Speaking of, you should probably scale the amount of charges at some point. If you want to not change stuff too much, I'd probably increase your pool to double WisMod at 15th.

Alternatively if you want to expand its features, shift watercharges to 3rd along with Lake's Stillness, and pepper in some more water-themed spells along the levels, with doubling your charges at 10th instead. Then double it again (so 4x WisMod) at 18th.

Flowing weapons are flavourful but not terribly interesting. Perhaps offer additional water charge buffs at higher levels to imitate other magic weapon features? Elemental damage or the like.

Cool concept though.

Thanks for the feedback! I must confess, I was almost positive that this would feel a bit overpowered. It's interesting to know that it doesn't!

Lake's Stillness does, now that you mention it, look a bit clunky, but bear in mind that if you use the Water Charge to power up the flowing weapons, you don't have to power them up each time that you recreate them for 1 minute.



He can use a bonus action to grant his current flowing weapons, and any he creates while this effect is active, a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to number of charges expended, up to a maximum determined by the Water Charges table. This effect ends after a minute or when the knight is incapacitated.


I might have to work out the wording on that one. Sorry, english isn't my main language :P
The idea is that the fighter begins a fight by powering up his flowing weapons, and then he still has charges to do other stuff. The interaction with the flowing weapon is actually more of a fluff than actual mechanic: it's meant to reflect the knight shifting his weapons into a shield and then back.

As for Water Charges, you have a point: they should be more. I'll follow your suggestion: I'll edit the post so that the knight gets double their wisdom mod in charges, and maybe triple at 15.

The idea of adding a few water spells had crossed my mind, and I might actually just do that now that there are more Water Charges, but my fear of overpowering is still kind of holding me back :smallbiggrin:.

Again, thanks for the feedback, that was very useful!

[Rivaler]

Could still use some feedback! Really, any comment you might have is extremely appreciated and worth sharing!

[Seclora]

Hi everyone!

I'm about to introduce a homebrewed martial archetype into my campaign, the Knight of Edryn, who is the goddess of water, life and time in my setting.

Being my very first homebrew addition to the rules, I could really use some help from you great folks with balancing features and making sure I didn't go too overboard with them!

Any feedback and suggestion is GREATLY appreciated!



Knight of Edryn

Hailing from the fortress sanctuary of Edryn in North Slate, the order of the Knights of Edryn is vowed to protection of life from the forces of darkness, without taking part in politics. A Knight of Edryn is a beacon of hope for the people he protects with the powers bestowed onto him by the goddess, allowing him to shape his sacred water into ice weapons, symbol of his order.

Goddess' Gift
Upon choosing this archetype at 3rd level, the fighter obtains a waterskin filled with sacred water. This water is his, can't be used by other knights of Edryn, and is used to fuel most of his abilities.

As a bonus action, the Knight of Edryn can magically recall his sacred water to his waterskin, returning it to it's liquid state if necessary. This feature fails if water is further than 300 feet away from the knight, if it's on another plane of existance or if there are no paths that would allow water, in any state, to flow back to the waterskin (e.g. if it's in a sealed bottled).

As part of a long rest, the Knight of Edryn can bless a new water-filled waterskin. At the end of the rest, his previous waterskin and sacred water return to being normal, and he can use the new waterskin and sacred water for his abilities.

Mastery of Water
At 3rd level, the Knight of Edryn learns the Shape Water cantrip. Wisdom is the spellcasting ability for this spell.

When he targets his sacred water with Shape Water, the cantrip has the following variants:

It can be cast with a bonus action
It can shape, liquify and freeze water using the same action
Objects created with ice have an AC of 10 + his wisdom modifier, and double his fighter levels in hp


He can also use Shape Water to give his sacred water the shape of ice weapons and shields. Weapons created this way take the name of Flowing Weapons. A Knight of Edryn can create one of the following combinations, which can be wielded as part of creation and disappear when the knight uses Shape Water on his sacred water:


One two-handed melee weapon
One one-handed melee weapon and a shield
Two one-handed melee weapons
One one-handed melee weapon


When the Knight of Edryn attacks with his flowing weapons, he can use his Wisdom modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for his attack and damage rolls.

Divine Fencing
At 7th level, the knight's flowing weapons count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

River's Wrath
At 7th level, the Knight of Edryn gains a number of Water Charges equal to double his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), which he regains with a rest. The knight can expend his Water Charges in one of the following ways:

He can use a bonus action to grant his current flowing weapons, and any he creates while this effect is active, a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to number of charges expended, up to a maximum determined by the Water Charges table. This effect ends after a minute or when the knight is incapacitated.
He can make his flowing weapons levitate and attack far away targets, orchestrating them with his hands. As a bonus action, he can expend one of his Water Charges to make the flowing weapons he is currently wielding have a reach of 30 feet untill the end of his turn.


Water Charges Table


Fighter Levels
Max Bonus
Expended Water Charges


3rd
+1
1


10th
+2
2


18th
+3
3



Edryn's Favor
At 10th level, the Knight of Edryn gains a swim speed equal to his movement speed. If he already has a swim speed, or he later gains it, that speed is increased by 10 feet.

Mastery of Life
At 10th level, the Knight of Edryn can draw power from the dominion over life of the goddess.

When the Knight of Edryn uses Second Wind, he heals an additional d10 hit points and he can expend one of his Water Charges to make a target within 30 feet regain the same amount of health.

Lake's Stillness
At 15th level, the Knight of Edryn can expend one of his Water Charges to dissolve his flowing weapons, if currently active, and cast the Shield spell. Wisdom is the spellcasting modifier for the spell.

When cast this way, Shield appears as an ice dome covering the knight, and can't be dispelled.

Water's Grace
At 15th level, the Knight of Edryn gains proficiency in acrobatics and the maximum Water Charges he can have becomes triple his Wisdom Modifier (minimum 1). If he is already proficient in acrobatics, he instead gains expertise in acrobatics.

Mastery of Time
At 18th level, the Knight of Edryn is favored by the goddess, and can draw power from her dominion over time.

When the Knight of Edryn uses his Actions Surge, his movement speed doubles, as time around him slows down, and if he uses the gained action to take the attack action, he can expend one of his Water Charges to make an extra attack.

I love the theme you're going with here, but wonder if it wouldn't make more sense as a Paladin? Divine servant and all. I'm not familiar with the setting though, so I'm sure this is fine. Fighters always need the love.

Firstly, under River's Wrath, which of the two rests does it recharge on? Contextually, I gather that it's a Long Rest, but if I've misunderstood than you have entirely too many resources to work with.

Next, Edryn's Favor, Comes in a bit too late for my liking, even as a Ribbon. I'd probably boost it, rather than moving it. Consider instead giving them the benefits of Freedom of Movement as long as they are submerged in Water, and letting them breathe in water as well as air.

And Importantly, Lake's Stillness. If the benefit is Shield, then this is very late to come into play, because the ability seems really pivotal to the class and 15th level is late to get a 1st level spell, even if you have a lot of potential uses. Consider instead allowing a Reaction to create a 10'x5'x1" opaque Ice Barrier that provides 3/4s cover, which grants a similar bonus to AC, and also a bonus to Dex Saves, but helps your allies as well as yourself without changing the flavor of the ability. It's also in line with the Artilerist ability at around this same level.

Lastly, Mastery of Time, doesn't quite work as written. Without taking the Dash Action, you gain no benefit from the movement speed doubling, and if you do so, then you gain no benefit from the extra attack on your attack. Instead, I suggest giving them the ability to cast Haste on themselves at the cost of 3 Water Charges, and they are not stunned when the spell ends. This would give them the effects you want to give them, but with already defined and balanced parameters. Plus, it gives them more things to do with their up to 15 Water Charges a day.

Hope this helps!

Edit: misformatted my Ice Barrier measurements