New Mutants — Finally In Theaters?

[Palanan]

For now it looks like New Mutants, a rather troubled movie, is still scheduled to appear (https://variety.com/2020/film/news/new-mutants-disney-movie-theaters-august-release-1234731537/) in theaters on August 28. A lot can happen between now and then, but there’s a certain logic to testing the waters with this particular film, which can fairly be described as the last gasp of the X-Men franchise.

I grew up reading the New Mutants, so this movie holds a special interest for me. There’s at least one theater in my area planning to show it, but no telling if the tickets will be sold out as soon as they’re available online, or if no one will even notice.

More likely the latter; with all the fuss about Mulan, this movie has had close to zero visibility. I’m pretty sure most of the general public has never heard of these characters, and even among comics fans I doubt if Sam, Dani and Rahne are especially well-known.

So, rare commodity these days, something to look forward to—assuming the schedule holds up.

[Ramza00]

Lies, there is no New Mutants movie! :smallwink:

[Kareeah_Indaga]

My understanding is that they have to show the movie in theaters for contract reasons.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, they're basically dumping it at a point where they can get whatever bump there is for a holiday weekend (Labor Day). I expect it to be on pay per view by the end of September and part of the Disney Plus thing probably six months from now.

[HandofShadows]

It has the enthusiastic support of Bill Sienkiewicz, so that's a good sign that it's a good movie.

[Willie the Duck]

For now it looks like New Mutants, a rather troubled movie, is still scheduled to appear (https://variety.com/2020/film/news/new-mutants-disney-movie-theaters-august-release-1234731537/) in theaters on August 28. A lot can happen between now and then, but there’s a certain logic to testing the waters with this particular film, which can fairly be described as the last gasp of the X-Men franchise.


I think testing the waters is a good way to put it. If you are going to see if people are ready to come back to the cineplex, you might as well use something you already have made but are at the point of 'well, if it makes back some of its cost, yay. If not, well, it's money already spent.'

I feel vaguely bad for this film. Not having seen any of the clips, I have no idea what specifically is wrong with it, just that everyone thinks it is going to be a bomb. Seems almost like self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.

[brionl]

If they show it at the Drive-In, I'll go, but I'm not going back to a regular theater any time soon.

[Ramza00]

Yeah, they're basically dumping it at a point where they can get whatever bump there is for a holiday weekend (Labor Day). I expect it to be on pay per view by the end of September and part of the Disney Plus thing probably six months from now.

I do not know if I trust New Mutant rumors. This is a caveat.

But the same rumor source saying it must go in theatres also says it will come to HBO first with streaming. This is because HBO had a contract (we know this for a fact*) with 20th century fox where HBO gets some movie rights of things that Fox released. What we do not know for a fact is the details of the contract, only speculation of said details, plus what details both parties released to the press. This explains why the Jean Grey Dark Phoenix movie was released March 2020 on HBO even though Disney+ has existed since Nov 2019.

*Contract was signed in 2012 and goes to 2022. There were similar contracts with Fox and HBO such as the 2007 contract and further contracts going all the way back to the 1980s.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Willie the Duck
I feel vaguely bad for this film. Not having seen any of the clips, I have no idea what specifically is wrong with it, just that everyone thinks it is going to be a bomb. Seems almost like self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.

Probably just the cumulative effect of the delays and reshoots, plus residual disappointment with the franchise. Dark Phoenix was dismal enough that most people have written off the franchise completely, and sadly this movie is lost in the undertow.

As for the movie itself, it’s a different starting point from the comics, but I’m willing to give it a look. More interested in this one than any other upcoming Marvel project. I could quibble about one or two of the characters, but I’m genuinely interested in seeing what the movie does with them.


Originally Posted by HandofShadows
It has the enthusiastic support of Bill Sienkiewicz, so that's a good sign that it's a good movie.

Not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic or not. I never liked his artwork, and haven’t seen his name used in many years, so his endorsement isn’t really a factor for me.

.

[tomandtish]

Yeah, they're basically dumping it at a point where they can get whatever bump there is for a holiday weekend (Labor Day). I expect it to be on pay per view by the end of September and part of the Disney Plus thing probably six months from now.

Probably won't get much of a Labor Day bump since they are releasing it the weekend before Labor Day weekend. Labor Day is the first Monday in September, so it is September 7th this year.


I think testing the waters is a good way to put it. If you are going to see if people are ready to come back to the cineplex, you might as well use something you already have made but are at the point of 'well, if it makes back some of its cost, yay. If not, well, it's money already spent.'

I feel vaguely bad for this film. Not having seen any of the clips, I have no idea what specifically is wrong with it, just that everyone thinks it is going to be a bomb. Seems almost like self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.

There's been so many re-writes and postpones and studio acquisitions (even before Covid) that yeah, they've created a situation where no one has any idea what to expect other than probable failure. It's hard for anyone to have high expectations for movie when the studio itself doesn't. This was originally supposed to be released over two years ago (April 2018). Heck, the first trailer was released almost three years ago (October 2017).

I was really looking forward to this, but just can't get excited about it now.

[Ramza00]

As for the movie itself, it’s a different starting point from the comics, but I’m willing to give it a look. More interested in this one than any other upcoming Marvel project. I could quibble about one or two of the characters, but I’m genuinely interested in seeing what the movie does with them.



It is a 1984 story arc of New Mutants that started in issue 18, though foreshadowing occured in issue 3. New Mutants the team starting with a graphic novel from 1982 when Graphic Novels were a new thing in comics.


From issue 15 of New Mutants, 1984. Illyana had a 4 issue comic stand alone story in 1983 and 1984 called Magik.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfN9xzoWkAQbQeB?format=jpg&name=large


Urge to read old comics is rising!

[Psyren]

I'm mostly interested in whether they plan on doing any MCU ties/hints at incorporating mutants after all. That and the horror angle are the most interesting aspects of the project to me, but neither is strong enough to risk a theater trip.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given this was shot back in early 2017, don't expect anything MCU. This is the last gasp of the FoX-verse that has been whimpering to a conclusion for the better part of a decade.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ramza00
New Mutants the team starting with a graphic novel from 1984 when Graphic Novels were a new thing in comics.

Yup, I have this one. That was my introduction to the New Mutants, and I kept up with them for years.

And graphic novels were definitely the hot new thing back then. "God Loves, Man Kills" was the coolest thing ever, at least when it came out.

[Psyren]

Given this was shot back in early 2017, don't expect anything MCU. This is the last gasp of the FoX-verse that has been whimpering to a conclusion for the better part of a decade.

I'm not expecting anything too overt, but Feige apparently made noise in that direction (https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/disney-says-new-mutants-is-part-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/) earlier in the year. It probably won't go beyond a few nods or a wink-nudge reference somewhere but I'm still curious what they do. Not to mention that the title itself is a pretty easy segue into such a connection, given that mutants themselves would be "new."

[Rogar Demonblud]

At last year's Comicon, they said they still didn't have a plan for how to use the mutants going forward. My honest opinion is they're still figuring out how everything will shake out post Endgame. Probably the Fantastic Four will show up first, as that would help them set up Doom for the next arc villain.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

At last year's Comicon, they said they still didn't have a plan for how to use the mutants going forward. My honest opinion is they're still figuring out how everything will shake out post Endgame.

Second this. The Fox acquisition was fairly close to the wire as far as Phase 4 went and they weren’t allowed to touch any of the former Fox properties until after the acquisition. That plus how badly the last X-men movie flopped and there really isn’t any rush to jam them into the MCU.

I also have a pet theory that now that they have GotG v.3 mostly back on track that Phase 4 is going to be filler until that’s out and they’re back on their original rails, and I doubt they will want the X-men to be filler when they finally include them.

Tl:dr - I’ll be surprised if we get more than name drops and vague hints RE: X-men in Phase 4, if we even get that.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't know. Given that 2020 has driven a giant spanner into their works, they have the time for any number of rewrites.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I don't know. Given that 2020 has driven a giant spanner into their works, they have the time for any number of rewrites.

This is true. And they definitely could use the cash infusion, but they can probably get that from the movies they already have planned, too.

I guess the question is, is it going to be worth it for them to throw out their existing (and presumably already lined up and/or paid for) plans to make X-Men happen sooner rather than later? Not to mention adding to the hurdles they're already having with the planned stuff that was supposed to come out this year?

[Xyril]

I'm not expecting anything too overt, but Feige apparently made noise in that direction (https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/disney-says-new-mutants-is-part-of-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/) earlier in the year. It probably won't go beyond a few nods or a wink-nudge reference somewhere but I'm still curious what they do. Not to mention that the title itself is a pretty easy segue into such a connection, given that mutants themselves would be "new."

That last bit seems like a bit of a stretch, and honestly I'm hoping not to see a substantial shift in that direction.

One of the best result of the pre-Disney mess of licensing agreements was that the MCU was separate from the X-men corner of the continuity. I'm a bit fan of both, and I loved quite a few of the team-up series that have bridged those parts of the comic continuity, but they never felt like they fit together right.

Maybe it's meant to be a commentary on the arbitrary and irrational nature of bigotry, but it seems incongruous to have the various X-men spinoffs depicting a world it was commonplace and borderline socially-acceptable to hate mutants and fear their (sometimes rather harmless and lame) powers, while celebrating numerous other super-powered vigilantes. This included actual extraterrestrial aliens who probably didn't come in through legal immigration channels, and heroes like Squirrel Girl who explicitly got their powers from genetic mutations that at "legally and scientifically distinct" from the specific mutations that defined Mutants (TM.)

The Civil War (I) event really had to dance hard around the issue. The SHRA was essentially the Mutant Registration Act, but expanded to a much wider group of powered individuals. Some of the anti-registration side, like Cap, were pretty consistently critical of anti-mutant discrimination. However, there were quite a few, some of whom worked directly with or for the government, who seemed to tacitly accept government control of mutants just fine. Yet they were outraged enough by the slightly expanded version to take arms against their old friends. The X-men were part of the crossover event, but remained neutral in the war because... reasons, I guess?

As rough as the Fox movies got towards the end, they did a solid job depicting the dark, almost dystopian tone of the comics setting. I don't think they could have done it given the constraints of the MCU. The Netflix Marvel managed to balance a drastically different tone that still (could) fit within the larger MCU because they depicted a grittier, street-level part of the setting that feels like it could be legitimately overlooked when telling the large-scale stories of the A-list heroes who literally save the world.

The X-men stories are similarly so vast in scope that it doesn't feel believable that, for example, mutants could interfere with the Cuban missile crisis or launch telepathic attacks on the entire population without having some lasting impact on something like the formation of the Avengers. And once you start piecing everything together, I just think it would be impossible to fit something with the tone and themes of X-men with the MCU.

[Ramza00]

@Xyril the mutant metaphor only works when there are thousands or millions of mutants around the world and not are 198 and thus can be fit in a singular gymnasium.

[Kitten Champion]

The Civil War (I) event really had to dance hard around the issue. The SHRA was essentially the Mutant Registration Act, but expanded to a much wider group of powered individuals. Some of the anti-registration side, like Cap, were pretty consistently critical of anti-mutant discrimination. However, there were quite a few, some of whom worked directly with or for the government, who seemed to tacitly accept government control of mutants just fine. Yet they were outraged enough by the slightly expanded version to take arms against their old friends. The X-men were part of the crossover event, but remained neutral in the war because... reasons, I guess?


This was after the erasure of most of the Mutant population in both House of M and the genocide of Genosha. Mutants had numbers in the mere dozens and Xavier mansion was guarded 24/7 by Sentinels. They may have participated in the event in the sense that they had comics in it but they had little-to-no power politically and no real will to fight after being so thoroughly decimated. They obviously couldn't morally support Stark's side for what it represented, but they weren't in a position to overtly challenge him and the United States Government, so neutrality was their only option.

https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/eY6wJuzSCbkD.jpg

[Tyrant]

Maybe it's meant to be a commentary on the arbitrary and irrational nature of bigotry, but it seems incongruous to have the various X-men spinoffs depicting a world it was commonplace and borderline socially-acceptable to hate mutants and fear their (sometimes rather harmless and lame) powers, while celebrating numerous other super-powered vigilantes. This included actual extraterrestrial aliens who probably didn't come in through legal immigration channels, and heroes like Squirrel Girl who explicitly got their powers from genetic mutations that at "legally and scientifically distinct" from the specific mutations that defined Mutants (TM.)
Those other characters aren't (for the most part) a threat to humanity as a whole in the evolutionary sense. Iron Man is one guy, who is (I assume) genetically human. He isn't the start of a race of Iron People that will take over. His weapons are possibly world ending, but the world already lives with world ending weapons. Spider-Man isn't the start of a race of Spider-People. Likewise with Captain America (though if the process had survived the public might look at it differently). These people are all (or mostly) one offs. A large number were scientists or soldiers first.

Then you have mutants. They just spontaneously arise out of the population. They're powers activate (typically) during puberty and sometimes quite destructively. You won't be riding on a bus and have someone randomly mutate into Iron Man, killing everyone on the bus. You could, however, be sitting next to the next Nitro when his powers activate. They are publicly considered the next step in human evolution. Destined to replace humanity. And, at their peak, there were millions of them. Then add in people like Magneto and Apocalypse who very openly and publicly want a war between humans and mutants for supremacy, all while demonstrating a complete disregard for the value of human lives. Mutants are a clear threat to continued human existence in Marvel in a way that other powered individuals (generally) aren't.

Humans haven't really faced a threat to their continued dominance for tens of thousands of years. Someone like Dr. Doom trying to rule the world is something people can grasp. It's a power hungry dictator. There's plenty of them. Super weapons are more or less the same as nukes, and people found a way to live with them. This is a threat on a primal level that can't just be shrugged off.

The X-men stories are similarly so vast in scope that it doesn't feel believable that, for example, mutants could interfere with the Cuban missile crisis or launch telepathic attacks on the entire population without having some lasting impact on something like the formation of the Avengers. And once you start piecing everything together, I just think it would be impossible to fit something with the tone and themes of X-men with the MCU.
I don't think it would be impossible, but it would be difficult. To have some of the older stuff that exists in canon might require something like a global mindwipe or a mutant with reality warping powers. Fortunately, both of those are possible. It would be daring and could seriously backfire, but I would almost try to make several movies that take place in the late 70s/early 80s and have them culminate in the Phoenix saga which ends with Phoenix doing some reality warping bologna and erasing all traces of the mutants. Then have them return as a byproduct of The Snap. Obviously someone far better at writing would need to iron that out or come up with something better.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The core split in Marvel is whether having superpowers makes you awesome (Avengers, Fantastic Four) or a monster (X-Men, Spider-Man). They'll play with the themes a little, but those are the basic camps. The MCU seems to be leaning more on the second category, what with the Sokovia Accords and all.

[Tyrant]

The core split in Marvel is whether having superpowers makes you awesome (Avengers, Fantastic Four) or a monster (X-Men, Spider-Man). They'll play with the themes a little, but those are the basic camps. The MCU seems to be leaning more on the second category, what with the Sokovia Accords and all.
I would go with the Accords being used as a means to accomplish the Mutant Registration Act. The argument being that since they have powers they have to sign. Have that lead to the Sentinels. Since they don't really have any super humans to enforce anything anymore they will need something they can trust that won't disobey orders. Have Trask be a former (or current, I suppose) Stark (or Hammer) employee who becomes obsessed with dealing with mutants to tie it into the MCU canon.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Who needs to go that far? Tony signed the Accords, that means his patents are now owned by whatever Acronymically Labeled Ideal Enforcement Nutters are in charge of this. As Thunderbolt Ross is the leader of ALIEN, you just know he'll weaponize everything, creating the Mandroid Army.

There you go. Iron Man/War Machine level military force ready to go after everyone.

[Xyril]

Those other characters aren't (for the most part) a threat to humanity as a whole in the evolutionary sense. Iron Man is one guy, who is (I assume) genetically human. He isn't the start of a race of Iron People that will take over. His weapons are possibly world ending, but the world already lives with world ending weapons. Spider-Man isn't the start of a race of Spider-People. Likewise with Captain America (though if the process had survived the public might look at it differently). These people are all (or mostly) one offs. A large number were scientists or soldiers first.

That's an interesting insight, and that's certainly the explanation/justification given within the setting. However,



Then you have mutants. They just spontaneously arise out of the population.


That bit has always been a bit hand-wavey, even before House of M, at which point it didn't really seem important to explore (in setting.) The X-gene is heritable, but it was also continuing to arise spontaneously, in parallel, in millions of people with no clear common ancestry (above and beyond any other random group of people.) I vaguely recall one of the comics or other media claiming that the rate of spontaneous mutation was accelerating. It seemed possible--likely even--that the "replacement" of humanity wouldn't be about your kids being replaced by the children of some immigrant race or minority ethnic group. Rather, it would be that eventually, your grandchildren or your great grandchildren would become mutants due as they get their turn to have the shockingly specific random genetic mutations.


Humans haven't really faced a threat to their continued dominance for tens of thousands of years. Someone like Dr. Doom trying to rule the world is something people can grasp. It's a power hungry dictator. There's plenty of them. Super weapons are more or less the same as nukes, and people found a way to live with them. This is a threat on a primal level that can't just be shrugged off.

Except we don't just "shrug them off." We expect our governments to do everything in their power to neutralize these threats and to prevent their proliferation. Which is, incidentally, how humans in the comics tend to regard Dr. Doom, and "evil" technologists. What I find hard to reconcile is how they treat "good" or "neutral" users of super weapons. In the real world, many countries (both nuclear and non-nuclear) work deliberately towards preventing the proliferation of nuclear weapons--even among "friendly" nations--because they worry about the dangers of any unchecked proliferation. In Marvel, this doesn't seem true. In Marvel, the export of superweapons (Oscorp tech, Hammer tech, etc.) doesn't inherently bother people. They might complain about specific sales (and IIRC, there were instances where the general public, and not just military/government officials, criticized Stark for not freely distributing his weapons tech), but it's not the same attitude most real people have about nuclear weapons as a whole.

The whole threat of mutants isn't that they'd replace or enslave our descendants, but that they'd eventually change the definition of what it means to be human. In that sense, the X-men and the MCU portions of the comic universe are again at odds. You mentioned


Likewise with Captain America (though if the process had survived the public might look at it differently).

However, I don't think that's true. People kept pursuing the supersoldier program, trying to replicate the original formula. In fact, in several storylines, when offered the capacity to drastically "improve" humanity on a biological level, people often embraced the possibility of change.


I don't think it would be impossible, but it would be difficult. To have some of the older stuff that exists in canon might require something like a global mindwipe or a mutant with reality warping powers. Fortunately, both of those are possible. It would be daring and could seriously backfire, but I would almost try to make several movies that take place in the late 70s/early 80s and have them culminate in the Phoenix saga which ends with Phoenix doing some reality warping bologna and erasing all traces of the mutants. Then have them return as a byproduct of The Snap. Obviously someone far better at writing would need to iron that out or come up with something better.

I was being hyperbolic. You're right that it's probably doable, but it would be tricky--especially for the more mainstream fandom of the MCU. People who grew up on comics or got very into the superhero comic genre as a whole have learned to accept certain conventions of the genre--especially the more reality warping ones--that tend to be a bit less accepted in others. I think the MCU has done a great job bringing in all of the genre elements that defined the comics, while sometimes scaling back a bit to keep things accessible to a more mainstream audience. (In particular, I've always thought they do a great job having that sense of sprawling continuity and interconnectedness, while keeping most movies and series understandable worthwhile even with zero background knowledge.) I feel like the Snap is pretty much as far as they could push it, and I think that might not have worked without all of the setup showing what a singular threat/resource the infinity stones represented.

[Psyren]

Tl:dr - I’ll be surprised if we get more than name drops and vague hints RE: X-men in Phase 4, if we even get that.

I never said it would be more than that either, nor did I mention the X-Men specifically.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Spider-Man isn't the start of a race of Spider-People.

Arguable, but I acknowledge Spider Island was someone else’s fault. :smalltongue:


Then add in people like Magneto and Apocalypse who very openly and publicly want a war between humans and mutants for supremacy, all while demonstrating a complete disregard for the value of human lives. Mutants are a clear threat to continued human existence in Marvel in a way that other powered individuals (generally) aren't.

Humans haven't really faced a threat to their continued dominance for tens of thousands of years. Someone like Dr. Doom trying to rule the world is something people can grasp. It's a power hungry dictator. There's plenty of them. Super weapons are more or less the same as nukes, and people found a way to live with them. This is a threat on a primal level that can't just be shrugged off.

...except this is the Marvel universe where the Kree and Skrulls exist. And probably a dozen other intelligent alien races that I’m unaware of. And yet no one seems to be making much fuss about any of them, even though the average mutant has less incentive to destroy the Earth, because the average mutant lives on it. The average mutant can have non-mutant parents, siblings, or friends. The average mutant doesn’t even know they are a mutant until they get their powers.

Put another way, Magneto wants to destroy baseline humans because baseline humans tried to kill him. The Chitauri didn’t need an excuse. So I’m not really seeing any ‘primal level threat’ that doesn’t exist elsewhere in the Marvel ‘verse in greater quantities.


I don't think it would be impossible, but it would be difficult. To have some of the older stuff that exists in canon might require something like a global mindwipe or a mutant with reality warping powers. Fortunately, both of those are possible.

It might be possible but it would feel really shoehorned. :smallyuk:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
...except this is the Marvel universe where the Kree and Skrulls exist. And probably a dozen other intelligent alien races that I’m unaware of.

If you’re talking the Marvel comics universe, there are many dozens of alien races seen in the pages of X-Men alone, and probably hundreds more across other titles.

I always had the impression that in the comics, there were as many alien races in our galaxy as there are in the Star Wars galaxy--and Star Wars probably had some influence on that, especially since the official Star Wars comics were issued by Marvel.


Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Arguable, but I acknowledge Spider Island was someone else’s fault.

I’m almost afraid to ask. :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Last I checked, Marvel was up to something like 200 named alien species.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

If you’re talking the Marvel comics universe, there are many dozens of alien races seen in the pages of X-Men alone, and probably hundreds more across other titles.

Definitely a good reason to be worrying about them instead of occasional instances of spontaneous super powers then.


I’m almost afraid to ask. :smalltongue:

Spider-Queen and the Jackal IIRC. Spider-Queen apparently has the power to control Spider-man, so she and Jackal infected everyone in New York with a virus that gave them Spider-man’s powers...along with whatever gene let her control him.

[Tyrant]

Wall O Texts spoilered:

Re: Xyril

That bit has always been a bit hand-wavey, even before House of M, at which point it didn't really seem important to explore (in setting.) The X-gene is heritable, but it was also continuing to arise spontaneously, in parallel, in millions of people with no clear common ancestry (above and beyond any other random group of people.) I vaguely recall one of the comics or other media claiming that the rate of spontaneous mutation was accelerating. It seemed possible--likely even--that the "replacement" of humanity wouldn't be about your kids being replaced by the children of some immigrant race or minority ethnic group. Rather, it would be that eventually, your grandchildren or your great grandchildren would become mutants due as they get their turn to have the shockingly specific random genetic mutations.
Much like Captain America's shield, the X-Gene doesn't really listen to science. Unless they intend to reveal that every mutant (not just a few random ones here and there, like it is now) is a descendant of Apocalypse (or Selene I suppose), there won't ever be a common ancestor. It's a random mutation (that leads to random powers) in the human genetic code. Earth X had a unifying theory but it isn't canon to the 616. It's also possible for mutants to have non-mutant kids. Graydon Creed is the son of Mystique and Sabretooth and is not a mutant. All I'm saying is arguing that the genetics of the X-Gene not making much sense doesn't really counter the argument presented in Marvel. Their argument is based on the sketchy science of the X-Gene and their universe has to deal with that.

Except we don't just "shrug them off." We expect our governments to do everything in their power to neutralize these threats and to prevent their proliferation.
Do we though? Without going down the political rabbit hole, I think an objective look at the popular conscience when it comes to nukes is that they are somehow, magically, not a problem anymore. Or at least not on the level they were in say, the 1950's to the early 1990's. A lot of people, and pop culture, seem to like to act like a possible nuclear war is a thing of the past. There are no serious anti nuclear movements or disarmament movements. The world only seems to be concerned when a one of a very small number of countries sabre rattle about trying to get them. We have learned to live with them.

And that is part of my point. They are a known threat. We've had decades to figure out how to come to terms with the fact that a series of sketchy decisions could lead to nuclear annihilation. And for the most part, people have moved on to other concerns. War is a possibility we learned to live with a very long time ago. We understand the threat and it's potential outcomes. A genuine threat to human dominance isn't something any human society has had to seriously deal with since there was such a thing as society. It's a threat unlike any other. That some people react very strongly (and potentially irrationally) towards it shouldn't be a surprise.

The whole threat of mutants isn't that they'd replace or enslave our descendants, but that they'd eventually change the definition of what it means to be human. In that sense, the X-men and the MCU portions of the comic universe are again at odds.
I'm relatively certain that the threat is enslavement/replacement/destruction. No one seems to be concerned about no longer being considered human. Mutants are mutant and proud, not humans plus. People like Magneto make their intentions very clear, and it isn't to be the "true humans", it's to kill or enslave flatscans. Humans are dominant and they don't plan to give that up without a fight.

However, I don't think that's true. People kept pursuing the supersoldier program, trying to replicate the original formula. In fact, in several storylines, when offered the capacity to drastically "improve" humanity on a biological level, people often embraced the possibility of change.
The super soldier program was to create super soldiers, not alter the general populace. Captain America is a one off. If suddenly you had lots of soldiers like that, the general populace would turn against them. Unless they offered it to everyone. In that case, everyone is still theoretically on a similar playing field. If not, you have a lot of former soldiers entering civilian life with obvious physical advantages above and beyond what being a soldier for a few years can give you. That will lead to resentment from the people who are displaced by those guys. Not to mention, given the time frame, there won't be any women given the treatment. That's another point of contention. I imagine most of them would also be Caucasian. It would real quickly lead to wondering who really won the war. And that's only in the U.S. The other countries aren't going to look on this too fondly either. That gets worse if the U.S. starts giving the treatment to civilians and enhances most of the populace. That puts the people of one country above every other. That leads to some of the same issues as mutants (notably not the random mutation spontaneously arising). Other countries would probably build Sentinels to fight them.

I was being hyperbolic. You're right that it's probably doable, but it would be tricky--especially for the more mainstream fandom of the MCU. People who grew up on comics or got very into the superhero comic genre as a whole have learned to accept certain conventions of the genre--especially the more reality warping ones--that tend to be a bit less accepted in others. I think the MCU has done a great job bringing in all of the genre elements that defined the comics, while sometimes scaling back a bit to keep things accessible to a more mainstream audience. (In particular, I've always thought they do a great job having that sense of sprawling continuity and interconnectedness, while keeping most movies and series understandable worthwhile even with zero background knowledge.) I feel like the Snap is pretty much as far as they could push it, and I think that might not have worked without all of the setup showing what a singular threat/resource the infinity stones represented.
I think they can push things beyond the Snap. I agree that the build up was critical to the general audience accepting the idea. But now we are in a post-Snap cinematic universe. And a post time travel cinematic universe. Possibly soon, a post alternate reality cinematic universe. They are laying the steps to lean in more and more into comic book ideas. I think there is a limit, but I am not sure where it is.
Re: Kareeah_Indaga

Arguable, but I acknowledge Spider Island was someone else’s fault. :smalltongue:

Random storylines not withstanding was apparently a disclaimer I should have added. To be honest I expected someone to point out that Peter does have kids in a lot of timelines and they are super powered.

...except this is the Marvel universe where the Kree and Skrulls exist. And probably a dozen other intelligent alien races that I’m unaware of. And yet no one seems to be making much fuss about any of them, even though the average mutant has less incentive to destroy the Earth, because the average mutant lives on it. The average mutant can have non-mutant parents, siblings, or friends. The average mutant doesn’t even know they are a mutant until they get their powers.

Put another way, Magneto wants to destroy baseline humans because baseline humans tried to kill him. The Chitauri didn’t need an excuse. So I’m not really seeing any ‘primal level threat’ that doesn’t exist elsewhere in the Marvel ‘verse in greater quantities.
The Kree and the Skrulls (and any other aliens) are a different kind of threat. That's an invading, hostile power. That's war. Humans understand war. Not everyone has first hand experience, but virtually everyone understand the concept and the general ideas behind it. A new contender for dominance of the planet arising from within the ranks of humanity isn't something anyone has had to deal with since humans achieved dominance. I assume the average person in Marvel that is aware of those races assumes the various governments and people like the Avengers are standing ready to fight them. And if push comes to shove, the average person probably thinks they will fight them in the streets or something. How do you physically fight evolution?

[137beth]

The AV Club says they will not review (https://film.avclub.com/the-new-mutants-finally-opens-this-week-here-s-why-we-1844833667?rev=1598368725725) The New Mutants.

[JadedDM]

I don't blame them. I'm really looking forward to this film, but it's not worth the risk to see it in theaters. I'll wait.

[tomandtish]

The AV Club says they will not review (https://film.avclub.com/the-new-mutants-finally-opens-this-week-here-s-why-we-1844833667?rev=1598368725725) The New Mutants.

A lot of reviewers are saying that because they aren't being given any way to review it ahead of time (https://www.themarysue.com/new-mutants-in-theaters-pandemic/)and safely. There's no digital screener, and no early screen release for reviewers.

Of course, there's also the consideration that 9 times out of 10, when a studio doesn't let reviewers have an opportunity to review ahead of time then the studio expects the movie to be a flop.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JadedDM
I don't blame them. I'm really looking forward to this film, but it's not worth the risk to see it in theaters. I'll wait.

I'm on the fence. I've been looking forward to this for a couple of years now, and while I'm well aware this may not be worth a fraction of the hype, ...gorrammit, I haven't been to see a movie in nearly a year, and I really miss it.

Also, in my case I know my local theater, and often enough when I'm in a Tuesday matinee I'm one of just two or three people there. Assuming that holds true next week, I just might give it a try.

[JadedDM]

Even if there are only a handful of people in the theater, I'd say it's still an unnecessary risk.

Consider: Even if you wear a mask and you make sure you don't sit near anyone else, a movie theater is an enclosed space with poor ventilation (no windows and usually the doors are kept closed during the movie). And if anyone has concessions (or they smuggled in their own stuff), they will be taking their masks off to eat and drink. Short of renting out the entire theater to yourself, I wouldn't risk it, personally.

[Palanan]

Hm. Those are good points.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My state just went past 40% positivity rates on their Covid tests AGAIN. You couldn't pay me to go to a theater at this point.

[Kitten Champion]

There's also more evidence that suggests C-19 lingers in the air for some time especially in poorly ventilated areas such as a theatre, which is discouraging in a year chalk full of discouragement.

I don't know why they're doing this to be honest. I can only surmise that Kareeah Indaga is correct and it's for some contractual reasons. As Disney's already shown they're willing to bring scheduled cinematic releases to Disney+ instead - be it Onward, Artemis Fowl, or even Mulan (2020) albeit with a different model. It's not like The New Mutants is Black Widow or anything. It's a movie now most renowned for its long-time production issues, for following on the heels of Dark Phoenix's immense failure, and serving as the last embers for a cinematic universe that's well and truly dead.

I love New Mutants - the 80's comics at least - and I enjoy different takes on Superhero fiction, so this is a movie that is definitely aimed at me... but I was already expecting to watch it at home essentially since the time Disney bought Fox and I'm definitely already used to waiting.

[Psyren]

No movie is worth that kind of risk imo. I'll be waiting until its available on streaming. I'm sure everyone is watching D+'s model with bated breath.

[Palanan]

Yeah, it comes down to unnecessary risk, with the key word being "unnecessary." There are a lot of people in my area who don't get how to wear a mask, or who just don't think it's needed.

As for why Disney is doing this--as mentioned earlier, this is probably one of the safer options to test the theatergoing market, since they can't have imagined they'd make much money on this one no matter what happened. I wouldn't be surprised if it flatlined at the theater and was pulled the first week.

It's awful to say that, because I don't really think there's anything wrong with the movie, apart from riding the frayed coattails of the single worst movie in the mutant franchise. I'm expecting to enjoy it, but later than hoped for, and safely at home.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My guess is that it'll go for the standard two week starter period (which will also get it whatever holiday dollars there are) and then it'll get pulled.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Somebody went and reviewed it. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-new-mutants-film-review)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Sounds about like what I expected. Perhaps the freakiest horror story in comics the decade it was published gets processed until blander than imitation vanilla pudding.

Oh well, at least Maisie's back for the new season of Gen:Lock.

[Tyrant]

If you want to go to the movies and you have the option, go to a drive-in. It's how I have been able to watch movies over the summer. I bring my own snacks and drinks to avoid having to interact with anyone. Sure two of the movies I have watched like that are almost as old as I am and one was four years older than me. But, the ones around me have also been running that new Russell Crowe movie. Hopefully this will end up at one of them. Fortunately I have a few of them within driving distance.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's also the S&M 2 concert tour.

[Ramza00]

Oh this is delicious. Bob McLeod is one of the two Co-Creators of the original New Mutants of the 80s, he was the artist and thus responsible for the unique art style.

Well he has finally seen the movie 🎥 and he has several disappointments that he is posting on the Internet. One of the disappointments is that even with 3 years of re-edits they still can not spell his name right!

At the end of the two paragraphs Bob states he is done with this movie.

https://twitter.com/mcleodbob

Also Bill Sienkiewicz and Chris Claremont are angry about this 😤

[Talakeal]

I saw it.

Surprisingly good. Not great, but definitely above the median for a Fox superhero movie.

No idea why they have been sitting on this for three years.

No connection to the MCU, barely any connection to the X-men, no surpsie reveals or big twists or cameos. No post credit scene.

This is also the fourth movie that they have hinted at Mr. Sinister being behind the scenes, but he is not actually in the movie. That is a lot of setup that is never going to get paid off.

[HandofShadows]

From what I have heard earlier cuts of the film were not good and there were people fighting to get a better version put together.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The short version is that the director wrote a script, FOX told him to re-write, he shot most of the script instead (apparently he tried to sneak in a topless scene, probably as a Brown M&M rider), FOX told him to do the rewrites and reshoot, or they'd fire him and have somebody else completely reshoot (this was a very cheap film, especially compared to the other X-films) and essentially both sides just stood around saying am-not/are-too until Disney took over and basically tossed the film out the door just to get rid of it.

What were those re-writes, you ask? The big one was more ties to the main films, and properly setting up Mr Sinister. And getting rid of the Storm-as-sadistic-warden bit (which was scrapped due to runtime issues). And a small matter or Roberto and Cecilia Reyes needing darker skin color (FOX being FOX, not for accuracy to the comics but for making the film look more diverse).

So at least partly the studio wanted to fix things that are what people are complaining about. Add that to the issues around the Trank F4 movie and it's a little hard to argue against studio interference.

[Gallowglass]

Went and saw it:

Plot synopsis, play by play, ****SPOILERS BELOW***


Movie opens with Dani Moonstar being woken up by her father in a panic. They run out of their house and into what appears to be an evil tornado. Dani has no idea what is going on. Her father deposits her in a tree and goes back to help others then promptly dies, his body flung in front of her, she screams, sees something in the storm, then gets whalloped and knocked unconscious.

She wakes up chained to a bed in what appears to be an anbandoned asylum/hospital. She is met by Cecelia Reyes, the only staff of the entire complex who explains that her entire reservation was wiped out and she survived because she's a mutant.

She is introduced to the other four "patients" in a trite roundtable therapy session. Illyana Rasputin, a teenage russian sexpot who sometimes talks through a dragon muppet on her hand she calls Lockheed. Roberta DaCosta a brazilian bro complete with perpetual popped collar, Sam Guthrie, a kentucky hick with a black eye and a broken arm, and Rahne, a scottish Stark-child

Her and Rahne immediately click. This turns into a full fledged sexual romance later on.

Illyana, who is mean and cruel, takes her for a tour of the place and convinces her to try a run for it. She does and breaks her nose on the invisible shield surrounding the place. The shield is Cecelia's mutant power.

They slowly introduce the core damage of the five kids. Sam killed his dad and his entire workcrew in a coal mine when he panicked and blasted. Bobby burned his girlfriend alive when he tried to have sex with her. Illyana, they never overtly explain, but it looks like she fell into hell as a kid and was raised there in some manner or another (or was just systematically abused growing up). Rahne turned into a wolf, panicked, told her priest who branded her with a W for witch (which upside down is of course an M for mutant)

The kids think that they are at a hospital to learn to control their powers so that the mystery benefactor will promote them into the X-men. However, the place is actually controlled by the mysterious Essex Enterprises.

Cecelia doesn't know what Dani's powers are. Which caused problem because when she goes to sleep, the others nightmares come to life. Faceless smiling demons dressed like bad russian gangsters hunt them at one point out of Illyana's dreams. Roberto thinks Illyana is seducing him in the pool, but its actually his burned up ex girlfriend. Ad naseum.

Oh yeah, the naked scene is in a shower and involves Rahne and Dani which, gross, because they both look 12 years old.

Eventually, Cecelia is told to put Dani down. She drugs her and talks about how her mother was a vet and had to put down her childhood dog and this is the same, trying to talk herself into it.

Rahne knows through her Dani sense that something is wrong and comes in and cuts Cecelia up real bad. She runs and Rahne "rescues" the half-unconscious Dani.

The kids decide to hunt down Cecelia and find her and she almost kills them with her shrinking energy shields.

Here's where it gets super crazy. With Dani knocked out, her personal demon, a 40' tall smoke demon bear comes out and starts trying to kill everyone. The other four kids have to play keep away, each one having a turn to keep Dani away from the bear. Illyana goes full "Magick" complete with soul sword and her dragon muppet coming to live as Lockheed and does most of the heavy lifting.

Sam manages to blast once or twice, and Bobby manages to hit the thing with a church pew. But nothing is effective until Dani confronts her fear by hugging her dream dad and comes to and pets the bear on the nose says "No! Bad Bear" and dispatches it.

Cecelia was already eaten by the bear at that point.

IN the rubble of the hospital the decide to walk to town together.

The end. No seriously.

Thoughts:

It wasn't as bad as I expected, but I had super low expectations. I think they did a really good job with Cannonball's powers and a really crappy job with Bobby's. Illyana was super annoying but I guess she was supposed to be.

It was a cerebral story, about the damage done to children, and the terrors of adolescence. Which, I guess, is the point. It in no way resembled an actual super-hero movie (which is cool) until the entirely too long and too pat battle with the demon bear at the end which was sadly straight up super hero brawling.

Cecelia's "turn" didn't feel believable. She turned into a mustache swirling bad guy real fast.

I kind of like Rahne as team leader. Completely different dynamic than in the comic, but it worked. Movie Rahne is comic Dani and movie Dani is comic Rahne.

The only mention of the X-men is when the kids think they are being groomed for it. There is no mention of Illyana being Collosus' sister.

Lockheed was awesome. More Lockheed.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I am suddenly reminded that about the only good part of Inhumans was a certain teleporting bulldog.

[Psyren]

Gallowglass, I think there's a bunch of stuff outside your spoiler that could go inside it.

[Dragonus45]

Just saw it today.

I liked it a great deal, it was a bit basic but the characters were interesting and the visuals were well shot. Magik in specific is magnificent, the rest are okish to pretty good, and it had an gay romance that not only didn't send me screaming from the theater in pure frustration at it's lazy inclusion but actually managed to rise to the level of having actual chemistry. That was nice.