A question about Wish

[Miele]

I read on the PHB that Wish is available only to Wizards and Sorcerers, and the most common (and safe) use is to cast a spell of 8th level or lower without any additional costs, but what is not crystal clear is if this spell is to be selected by the class specific list or can be any spell from any list as long as it's level 8 or lower.

Basically, can a Sorcerer cast Clone or Simulacrum by using Wish? Can a sor/wiz cast Animal Shapes from the druid list?

Second quick question: considering that a level 20 wizard/sorcerer can cast 1 level 9 spell per long rest and that Wish is stupidly powerful, how silly is that any level 17 wizard/sorcerer can obtain it RAW just by reaching level 17? (Oh, look what I learned!)
I mean, obviously Sorcerers just get magic by the Weave (in FR), but where in the nine hells do Wizard find it? Scrolls? For sale at Candlekeep (FR)?

I would limit the access to Wish for a while, at least gating it with a quest of sorts to obtain it or as a surprise reward for finishing something special.

What's your experience with this spell?

[kaervaak]

You can cast any 8th level or lower spell, from any spell list, with no material components, and a casting time of 1 action using wish.

[Unoriginal]

Second quick question: considering that a level 20 wizard/sorcerer can cast 1 level 9 spell per long rest and that Wish is stupidly powerful, how silly is that any level 17 wizard/sorcerer can obtain it RAW just by reaching level 17? (Oh, look what I learned!)
I mean, obviously Sorcerers just get magic by the Weave (in FR), but where in the nine hells do Wizard find it? Scrolls? For sale at Candlekeep (FR)?

Nothing silly about it. A lvl 17 character is one of the masters of their discipline on a worldwide level at least. Wizards don't "find" it, they re-invent it as part of their spell research.

Also, no, Wish isn't "stupidly powerful". In fact all the other 9th level spells are more powerful, strictly speaking, as they allow feats of power Wish can't match without risking dire consequences. Wish is still useful as it allows to duplicate a ton of lower-power spells, though. Still I fear the Wizard who can True Polymorph into a dragon more than the one who can cast a 7th lvl spell they didn't prepare this morning using a 9th level spell slot.

[Miele]

Nothing silly about it. A lvl 17 character is one of the masters of their discipline on a worldwide level at least. Wizards don't "find" it, they re-invent it as part of their spell research.

Also, no, Wish isn't "stupidly powerful". In fact all the other 9th level spells are more powerful, strictly speaking, as they allow feats of power Wish can't match without risking dire consequences. Wish is still useful as it allows to duplicate a ton of lower-power spells, though. Still I fear the Wizard who can True Polymorph into a dragon more than the one who can cast a 7th lvl spell they didn't prepare this morning using a 9th level spell slot.

Ok, I see your point and agree with it, so it's good for the versatility and for saving material components. Thanks.
I guess I was used to the BECMI edition of Wish, which took us several minutes to "cast" as we had to write it down carefully, because the DM took the word "literally" to the extreme :smallbiggrin: but it certainly was much more powerful.

[MaxWilson]

In fact all the other 9th level spells are more powerful, strictly speaking, as they allow feats of power Wish can't match without risking dire consequences.

They're not strictly more powerful--in many cases, long casting times and expensive components balance out a spell's power, and Wish gets around all that. E.g. compare Dominate Monster to Planar Binding VIII, and Planar Binding VIII (six months, no concentration, no repeat saves, works on any creature that is elemental/fiend/fey/celestial) is far stronger overall than even Dominate Monster IX (eight hours, concentration, works on any creature vulnerable to charm, advantage if you are currently fighting it, new save every time it takes damage, built-in telepathy), but it's balanced out by the fact that Planar Binding VIII is a pain and a half to use in a fight due to its hour-long casting and "creature must be in range for the entire casting of the spell" clause and 1000 gp material componenet.

Because Wish frees you from material components and makes the spell a 1-hour casting time, it can in some cases give you something what is stronger than you'd natively get out of a different 9th level spell. For example, Wish (Symbol of Insanity) is arguably stronger than Psychic Scream, Wish (Planar Binding) is arguably stronger than Dominate Monster, and Wish (Druid Grove) is arguably stronger than Foresight because in one action you make your whole party invisible to the enemy (one-way mist that your party can see through = advantage on attacks, disadvantage to enemy attacks unless they have specifically blindsight, immunity to most enemy spells), animate up to four guardian trees, and drop a damaging/control effect like Spike Growth, and Dispel Magic doesn't even eliminate all the effects unless you cast it multiple times.

I'd say 9th level spells are generally competitive with the best uses of Wish-as-Instant-Anyspell, not strictly stronger. The best uses of Shapechange for example are not strictly better or worse than the best uses of Wish.