What's this party need?

[jaappleton]

All starting at 5th level:

1. Mark of Shadow Elf - College of Swords Bard, TWF

2. Half Elf - College of the Dirge Singer Bard (from the new Eberron book by Keith Baker, specializes in granting extra attacks to allies)

3. Yuan Ti - Oath of the Crown Paladin (sword n board, with Tandem Tactician)

4. Tiefling - Arcane Trickster Rogue (archer)

5. ????? (Me)

We have skills out the wazoo. We have the face certainly covered. We have the Paladin as a tank. Healing is covered.

I'm looking at this and whole we have two casters, a half caster, and a 1/3rd caster, which is plenty of spellcasting... What we don't have is a blaster.

I was going to make an Undead Patron Bladelock, and go to down on damage, but that's single target. Between the Swords Bard, Paladin and Rogue, I think that's a department fairly well covered.

Tempest Cleric? While very effective, also a bit boring. Invoker Wizard? I'd like to try to lean away from Sorc because the party is so Charisma heavy already, but I'm open to suggestions, especially if you think there's a more glaring hole in the party.

[MrStabby]

So I would skip warlock as well as sorcerer due to the charisma overlap.

I would lean towards Artificer I think - decent enough damage, some flexability and not someone who really needs that much protecting. Int will cover some missing skills.

[Unoriginal]

All starting at 5th level:

1. Mark of Shadow Elf - College of Swords Bard, TWF

2. Half Elf - College of the Dirge Singer Bard (from the new Eberron book by Keith Baker, specializes in granting extra attacks to allies)

3. Yuan Ti - Oath of the Crown Paladin (sword n board, with Tandem Tactician)

4. Tiefling - Arcane Trickster Rogue (archer)

5. ????? (Me)

We have skills out the wazoo. We have the face certainly covered. We have the Paladin as a tank. Healing is covered.

I'm looking at this and whole we have two casters, a half caster, and a 1/3rd caster, which is plenty of spellcasting... What we don't have is a blaster.

I was going to make an Undead Patron Bladelock, and go to down on damage, but that's single target. Between the Swords Bard, Paladin and Rogue, I think that's a department fairly well covered.

Tempest Cleric? While very effective, also a bit boring. Invoker Wizard? I'd like to try to lean away from Sorc because the party is so Charisma heavy already, but I'm open to suggestions, especially if you think there's a more glaring hole in the party.

War Wizard?

[GorogIrongut]

While my immediate response is a Sorceror, that's not what you want. Which leads me to either suggest a Druid. You've got skills and face covered. The druid would give you another full caster, wild shape shenanigans and someone with Wis out of the wahoo (perception, etc.) You also get the synergy of summoning while a large portion of your party is great at single target problems.

If you wanted to be off the wall, I would suggest an Artificer. The boring answer would be a wizard. Perhaps a blade singer.

So if I were in your situation, I'd probably go for a Druid. Maybe drop a few levels into ranger to tough it up. Maybe not, because druids are awesome.

[OldTrees1]

Bard + Paladin + Arcane Trickster covers a decent amount of useful magic but still leaves some holes. So probably a caster.

Bard gets most of the restorative magic, but skips the 3rd level spells. So Remove Curse and Revivify will be missing from 5th-8th level. This suggests a want for a Cleric / Druid but not a need for either.

Bard also gets a decent about of arcane utility magic. But it is weak in the AoE area. Fireball is nice to have but not needed.

[jaappleton]

While my immediate response is a Sorceror, that's not what you want. Which leads me to either suggest a Druid. You've got skills and face covered. The druid would give you another full caster, wild shape shenanigans and someone with Wis out of the wahoo (perception, etc.) You also get the synergy of summoning while a large portion of your party is great at single target problems.

If you wanted to be off the wall, I would suggest an Artificer. The boring answer would be a wizard. Perhaps a blade singer.

So if I were in your situation, I'd probably go for a Druid. Maybe drop a few levels into ranger to tough it up. Maybe not, because druids are awesome.

I'd likely go Wildfire just to get the blasty spells on the list, if I went Druid. Its got some merits, for sure. I do have this weird pet peeve, though, where I hate having any sort of pet or minion and its attacks don't have the same bonuses as me. Like if my spell attack modifier is +6 and theirs is +4... It just bugs me.

Wisdom is likely the superior stat when compared to Intelligence.

EDIT: But would Wildfire be superior to Light Domain?

[stoutstien]

Artillerist or Maverick artificer would be my vote. Both have pros and cons but can fill the blaster role quite well while providing the standard goodies that the class is providing. Bardic inspiration + flash of genius + pally aura mean you only fail saves you want to fail.

[Unoriginal]

While my immediate response is a Sorceror, that's not what you want. Which leads me to either suggest a Druid. You've got skills and face covered. The druid would give you another full caster, wild shape shenanigans and someone with Wis out of the wahoo (perception, etc.) You also get the synergy of summoning while a large portion of your party is great at single target problems.

If you wanted to be off the wall, I would suggest an Artificer. The boring answer would be a wizard. Perhaps a blade singer.

So if I were in your situation, I'd probably go for a Druid. Maybe drop a few levels into ranger to tough it up. Maybe not, because druids are awesome.

That's a great suggestion.

I would go even further and suggest a Shepherp Druid. Not only you get the AoE spells you seek, there is no one in that party who wouldn't benefit immensely from having a bunch of animals and fairies harrassing the enemies

[jaappleton]

Artillerist or Maverick artificer would be my vote. Both have pros and cons but can fill the blaster role quite well while providing the standard goodies that the class is providing. Bardic inspiration + flash of genius + pally aura mean you only fail saves you want to fail.

Here's my issue with Maverick:

At level 9, it rules. I mean, it RULES. Casting Fireball at 5th level for just a 3rd level slot? Pretty sweet.

But.... Prior to that? Only second and first level spells. No bonuses to damage. Really just a half caster kind of Lore Bard.

If I'm going to go with a blaster, I want to go full caster.

[GorogIrongut]

I'd likely go Wildfire just to get the blasty spells on the list, if I went Druid. Its got some merits, for sure. I do have this weird pet peeve, though, where I hate having any sort of pet or minion and its attacks don't have the same bonuses as me. Like if my spell attack modifier is +6 and theirs is +4... It just bugs me.

Wisdom is likely the superior stat when compared to Intelligence.

EDIT: But would Wildfire be superior to Light Domain?

I'm the first guy to suggest a cleric. But as you've already said, you've got healing covered. If you went Light Cleric, you'd get more healing and blasting... but you'd lose out on all the other Druid goodies.

If you want to go cleric, then I'd suggest Arcana or Twilight. Arcana would get you access to the wizard spell list while still keeping you Wisdom focused. Twilight... would let you be Batman.

If you don't want to be a summoner, I'd personally stick with Wildfire. Unoriginal already said that Shepherd would be the way to go if you wanted to be a summoner. While it may not be your cup of tea, I also have a soft spot in my heart for a Spore Druid.

So yeah, Wildfire would remain my suggestion. Even if it does have a Fire Familiar which might go against your weird pet peeve.

[Unoriginal]

If I'm going to go with a blaster, I want to go full caster.

You sure? 'Cause Sun Soul Monk could also work awesomely with that party.

[jaappleton]

You sure? 'Cause Sun Soul Monk could also work awesomely with that party.

Sun Soul is an absolute trap option for Monks, IMO. The blast at level 11 deals zero damage on a successful save. So you can hurl it at three people using your action and do absolutely nothing. That's always bothered me, and I REALLY wish it would get Errata'd.

[stoutstien]

Here's my issue with Maverick:

At level 9, it rules. I mean, it RULES. Casting Fireball at 5th level for just a 3rd level slot? Pretty sweet.

But.... Prior to that? Only second and first level spells. No bonuses to damage. Really just a half caster kind of Lore Bard.

If I'm going to go with a blaster, I want to go full caster.

Maverick Definitely takes a lot of system mastery to utilize effectively but they can blast with the best of them.

The artillerist it's fairly straightforward and also provide a good source of temporary hit points.

any wizard or druid would also work but I personally find full casters unfulfilling because they're not challenging to play.

[Eldariel]

A Wizard of any persuasion would be a perfect fit. No Int-classes, no full-on arcane casters, no prepared casters, no ritual casting, no dedicated casters, etc. Wizards fits all those to a T. Any kind of Wizard. Remember, spells get better the more you have (all sorts of cool comboes come up with magic): and Wizard just has the best list even compared to a Lore Bard pilfering the best goodies. Damage, CC, minionmancy, utility, you get it all.


The usual options shine:
- Diviner is great with so many CC characters and someone to make use of your crits (the Pally and Rogue will love every 20 you roll)
- Evoker is fine, nothing special but nothing wrong with it. A bit more damage than what most can muster.
- Illusionist goes great with all the manipulation the Bards already bring to the table. It's also still a Wizard.
- Abjurer could slot in fine as an extra "anvil" of sorts.
- Chronurgist/War Wizard are both really strong at just acting first, which tends to reward casters greatly.

You can summon if you need more frontliners. Your familiar will also be beloved by your Trickster/Pally. And you bring in the skills the party sorely needs in Knowledges and Investigation.

[da newt]

I'd think you all are short on tank and front line control w/ just one (or is your sword bard planning to tank).

Arcana Cleric, Barbarian, Druid - all of these can tank / front line control. I'd lean in that direction for this party.

[jaappleton]

- Chronurgist/War Wizard are both really strong at just acting first, which tends to reward casters greatly.

Heavily leaning Chronurgist with the Alert feat. Being able to lay down a Hypnotic Pattern or a Slow before enemies can even react to anything could be huge. Or taking out four little minions surrounding the tougher enemy with a Fireball to render them a non-issue.

[Mikal]

Artificer?
Don't see a lot of knowledge based stuff, and Artificers can give a lot of flexibility on the gaps some of the others may not have.
If UA is allowed armorer is pretty good, or artillerist if you want to blast

[jaappleton]

Artificer?
Don't see a lot of knowledge based stuff, and Artificers can give a lot of flexibility on the gaps some of the others may not have.
If UA is allowed armorer is pretty good, or artillerist if you want to blast

I'm actually playing an Armorer now. There's a pretty solid chance we TPK, so we all discussed backup characters after ending last session, which is why I made this topic. :smallbiggrin:

[Bobthewizard]

Heavily leaning Chronurgist with the Alert feat. Being able to lay down a Hypnotic Pattern or a Slow before enemies can even react to anything could be huge. Or taking out four little minions surrounding the tougher enemy with a Fireball to render them a non-issue.

That sounds perfect.

With two bards, an evoker also would work well to deal AOE damage while they focus on control. Also with two bards handing out bardic inspiration, GWM or SS would deal a ton of damage. But a chronurgy wizard with alert sounds amazing.

[jaappleton]

That sounds perfect.

With two bards, an evoker also would work well to deal AOE damage while they focus on control. Also with two bards handing out bardic inspiration, GWM or SS would deal a ton of damage. But a chronurgy wizard with alert sounds amazing.

-sees your username- Well you're the one to talk to, about time you showed up! :smalltongue:

I initially really thought Evoker, because its the most obvious for blasting. But between Sculpt Spell, which is amazing, it doesn't really do anything for me up until Overchannel, which IMO is so far away that it's not worth considering. I never build out something past about 5 levels from whatever level I'm starting at because the odds of the character living that long are not spectacular.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, Vuman Alert Chronurgist is just great. Take Lucky as your level 4 feat on top of it and call it a day with all your rolls and rerolls and general guck****ery (Lucky rerolls for Counterspell/Dispel Magic, Initiative, and critical saves and enemy crits). Res: Con could round it out on 8 though obviously you'd want to get your Int increases going too (it's kinda give-or-take at that point). Chronurgist's only downside is that the level 6 ability is the definite downpoint of the class but it's still a great one and the level 2 ability is hilarious. I can say out of experience that Alert Wizard is just sweet for negating encounters before they really start: no matter what ambush or whatever happens, you'll always be on top of it (and to top it all off, you can kinda "react immediately" to stuff your familiar communicates to you; if you know enemy is moving in to attack you, you're Alert so you aren't surprised and can act on it immediately).

Alert Lucky Chronurgist for maximum rerollage funzies and add the Gift of Alacrity to ensure you basically can't lose Initiative unless enemy is ridiculously built for it too. And then you, as the Wizard, have your choice of great CC effects to throw at the enemy, including but not limited to Web, Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, Slow, Sleet Storm, etc. on this level coupled with Fireball, Dragon's Breath and similar.