Eye of Fear and Flame

[Biggus]

A couple of questions about the Eye of Fear and Flame (BoVD p.177):

1) it has two SLAs. Its Fear ability has save DC17, which is what you'd expect based on the spell level and its Charisma. The Fireball ability however is listed at DC13, but I can't see any reason for this one to be lower (the spell level is the same). Is this a typo in the book or am I missing something?

2) it has a CR of 8, but its Fireball SLA has does 10d6 damage and can be empowered twice a day, for an average of 52.5 damage. I've just checked that against the level 8 party I'm about to send it up against, and if they fail their saves both animal companions will be dead outright and two of the party members will be dying. It can also cast Fear every round as a free action, and on average at least one of the two warrior-types who'd be left standing will fail their save each time. I feel like this should be at least CR9, if not 10?

[the_tick_rules]

Does it say saves are charisma based or something? If they are based off different abilities that might explain it.

Yeah that is pretty beefy for a CR 8. I would say granting some extra xp or something would be warranted. Unless it has a major flaw like very low hp or something that evens it out. I've seen some monsters that would bury a monster of the same CR, it happens sometimes.

[Thurbane]

Some monsters don't translate particularly well from 1E to 3E.

I would chalk up the save DC on the fireball as a stat-block error.

There is an ersatz errata/FAQ from the WotC website (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/BookVileFAQ12102002.zip), but it doesn't mention the save DCs for this creature.

Oddly the unofficial/fan made 3.5 update also doesn't touch on that subject: http://images.wikia.com/d20npcs/images/c/cc/Leaflets_of_Triel.pdf

As a DM, you may have to eyeball it and adjust the CR if you think it's going to be a very tough opponent for your party.

[Doctor Despair]

I would also note there are tactics listed for this creature. It doesn't start as a combat encounter; it starts as a social encounter. There doesn't need to be any fighting at all. Additionally, if the party has anyone good at bluff, they might be able to swing a surprise round out of this thing and even the fight a bit

[ShurikVch]

How about to use some alternative variant of Eye of Fear and Flame?

There are two - both are CR 9 (and Outsiders rather than Undead)

The first is from the Harvest of Darkness (Kingdoms of Kalamar):
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Evil)
Hit Dice: 12d8 (64 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 20 ft.
AC: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
Attacks: —
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Spell reflection
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +12
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration +15, Hide +16, Knowledge (arcana) +17, Knowledge (the planes) +17, Listen +19, Search +17, Spellcraft +17, Spot +19
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will
Challenge Rating: 9

Spell-Like Abilities: At will — detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, ethereal jaunt; 1/round - fear; 1/3 rounds - fireball. These abilities are treated as spells cast by 12-level Sorcerer.

Spell Deflection (Su): If blindness or power word blind is cast on eye of fear and flame, the spell affects its caster instead.
The second one is form the Creature Catalog (https://web.archive.org/web/20070427004956/http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/outsider/eye_of_fear_and_flame.htm) project

[Biggus]

Thanks all for the input.


How about to use some alternative variant of Eye of Fear and Flame?

There are two - both are CR 9 (and Outsiders rather than Undead)

The first is from the Harvest of Darkness (Kingdoms of Kalamar):
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Evil)
Hit Dice: 12d8 (64 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 20 ft.
AC: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
Attacks: —
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Spell reflection
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +12
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration +15, Hide +16, Knowledge (arcana) +17, Knowledge (the planes) +17, Listen +19, Search +17, Spellcraft +17, Spot +19
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will
Challenge Rating: 9

Spell-Like Abilities: At will — detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, ethereal jaunt; 1/round - fear; 1/3 rounds - fireball. These abilities are treated as spells cast by 12-level Sorcerer.

Spell Deflection (Su): If blindness or power word blind is cast on eye of fear and flame, the spell affects its caster instead.
The second one is form the Creature Catalog (https://web.archive.org/web/20070427004956/http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/outsider/eye_of_fear_and_flame.htm) project

Hmm, I notice they both increase its CR to 9, even though the KoK one is significantly weaker than the BoVD version. I guess that answers my second question...

[Thurbane]

I wonder how it would compare with a Bone Creature Human Warlock 8?

The EoFaF would have higher ability scores, much higher natural armor, and better damage output with it's SLAs (10d6 fireball), but only 1/3 rounds. It also gets Fear 1/round, at will detect law/good/thoughts and true seeing; + ethereal jaunt 2/day.

The Bone Creature Warlock has a 4d6 eldritch blast 1/round (usually single target); 3 least and 2 lesser invocations; DR 2/cold iron, DR/slashing, at will detect magic, UMD/deceive item, and 1/day fast healing 1 for 2 minutes.

Even if you took 5 decent invocations, and had a wand of fireball or similar, I think the EoFaF comes out as a significantly more dangerous opponent. It might deserve a CR increase.

[Biggus]

I wonder how it would compare with a Bone Creature Human Warlock 8?

The EoFaF would have higher ability scores, much higher natural armor, and better damage output with it's SLAs (10d6 fireball), but only 1/3 rounds. It also gets Fear 1/round, at will detect law/good/thoughts and true seeing; + ethereal jaunt 2/day.

The Bone Creature Warlock has a 4d6 eldritch blast 1/round (usually single target); 3 least and 2 lesser invocations; DR 2/cold iron, DR/slashing, at will detect magic, UMD/deceive item, and 1/day fast healing 1 for 2 minutes.

Even if you took 5 decent invocations, and had a wand of fireball or similar, I think the EoFaF comes out as a significantly more dangerous opponent. It might deserve a CR increase.

Thank you, that makes sense. I'm definitely increasing it to CR 9; still undecided if it should actually be 10.