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Angelalex242
2020-08-17, 03:29 PM
I've been pondering what the Death Penalty might look like in a magical world.

Sure, they could be boring and just use an axe like real life...

But that person could be resurrected if they have rich and powerful friends.

So...what if a Kingdom used a Bag of Devouring as its execution method?

It's a pretty solid way to prevent resurrections, at least.

Also, would anyone have ethical complaints about this?

MaxWilson
2020-08-17, 03:35 PM
I've been pondering what the Death Penalty might look like in a magical world.

Sure, they could be boring and just use an axe like real life...

But that person could be resurrected if they have rich and powerful friends.

So...what if a Kingdom used a Bag of Devouring as its execution method?

It's a pretty solid way to prevent resurrections, at least.

Also, would anyone have ethical complaints about this?

Overkill. Simply destroy the body (e.g. feed it to a Black Pudding). Anything that can resurrect someone without a body is someone a mere Kingdom doesn't want to tangle with anyway.

More effective methods exist, such Polymorphing the victim into a chicken and Plane Shifting the remains to the Negative Energy Plane to get eaten by Nightwalkers, but it hardly seems worth the requisite investment for a mere criminal as opposed to some kind of megalomaniacal archmage.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-17, 03:45 PM
Had a world that executed people after casting gentle repose. No ressurections, they also had a contract with and Archdevil to send all of the souls from execution to them.

tomandtish
2020-08-17, 04:32 PM
....But that person could be resurrected if they have rich and powerful friends.

So...what if a Kingdom used a Bag of Devouring as its execution method?


Few things to remember....

1) Odds are the vast majority of people executed aren't going to have rich and powerful friends to cast high level spells.

2) Powerful is subjective. Depending on the level of your world there may not be a lot of people capable of casting the spell. Esp. if the body is destroyed so true resurrection has to be used. Think of the trouble the OotS had getting Roy raised.

3) Finally, the most important point. There's a line when it comes to bring the dead back to life that is often overlooked....


If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body....

Anyone committing acts that actually deserve execution might very well not be free to return.

(Updated for 5E language)

Kemev
2020-08-17, 05:14 PM
Yeah, Max kinda beat me to it, but mere execution seems mundane. If you're going for magical punishment, I feel like there are better options...

- Turned to stone and left on the road to town with a placard as a warning to others
- Forced to perform penance via Geas
- Polymorphed into a brick and built into a prison
- Permanent banishment to another plane using planeshift (no need to bother killing someone if you can literally send them to Hell)

Seclora
2020-08-17, 08:34 PM
Depending on the Kingdom's access to magic, and whether or not they can force the criminal to fail a Wisdom Save, this is precisely the kind of situation that Imprisonment is designed for. Permanent or Near Permanent removal of a target without their allies being able to break them free without a 9th level spell of their own, and even then it will likely take more effort than a True Resurrection would.

There used to be a spell called Trap the Soul, which was dropped somewhere during development in 5e, and which still exists on the 8th level Wizard spell list in the PHB, although no description does. It explicitly blocked Resurrection as long as the gem used remained intact. It was a Necromancy spell, and was quite evil. The nearest equivalent I am aware of is the ability of an Acererak-style Demilich to consume a soul. A deal with such an entity would be both unwise, and effective in this situation.

Lunali
2020-08-17, 09:50 PM
Anyone personally weak enough to be executed but influential or wealthy enough to be able to get resurrected would probably be exiled from the country instead. People personally powerful would more likely flee or get killed in the process of their arrest.

On the rare occasion someone powerful is actually executed, destroying the body is a minimum effort, in more drastic cases you'll want to find some way to make sure the soul isn't free to return.

Kyutaru
2020-08-17, 10:12 PM
If it absolutely must be destroyed permanently then it must be staked, beheaded, buried upside-down in sanctified concrete for a year and a day, then dug up, salted, shot with thirteen silver bullets, cremated, and teleported into the sun.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-08-17, 11:49 PM
How about using Blackrasor or something based on it?

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-18, 04:20 AM
Had a society once where the death penalty involved having your soul fed into the phylactery of the resident lich queen.

Kane0
2020-08-18, 04:30 AM
My all time favourite is Psychic Scream, then maybe a Disintegrate to clean up afterwards.

Finger of Death and whatnot makes raising them a pain too.

Oh, you could just directly Planeshift them to the plane you have judged they will be going to in their afterlife, that could be interesting.

For lower end stuff, cantrips can burn the corpse or break it down with acid or freeze it ready to be smacked with a hammer, plus do the burial work as well.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-08-18, 05:19 AM
My all time favourite is Psychic Scream, then maybe a Disintegrate to clean up afterwards.

Finger of Death and whatnot makes raising them a pain too.

Oh, you could just directly Planeshift them to the plane you have judged they will be going to in their afterlife, that could be interesting.

For lower end stuff, cantrips can burn the corpse or break it down with acid or freeze it ready to be smacked with a hammer, plus do the burial work as well.

Finger of Death have the benefit of free labor.

Vogie
2020-08-18, 12:18 PM
Finger of Death have the benefit of free labor.

Brings the term "multiple life sentences" to a whole new level.

Grod_The_Giant
2020-08-18, 01:11 PM
Overkill. Simply destroy the body (e.g. feed it to a Black Pudding). Anything that can resurrect someone without a body is someone a mere Kingdom doesn't want to tangle with anyway.
Unless your world is swimming in epic characters, this is plenty-- without at least a piece of the corpse, there's no way of raising someone short of True Resurrection-- and perhaps more importantly, it's easy. You don't need high level spellcasters or artifacts, just an axe, a good hot fire, and a river to dump the ashes in.

kobo1d
2020-08-18, 02:11 PM
- Permanent banishment to another plane using planeshift (no need to bother killing someone if you can literally send them to Hell)

In a civilization advanced enough that plane shifting criminals is an option, forced rehabilitation becomes much more attractive instead of the death penalty. Don't send them to hell to punish them, send them to a good-aligned plane that forces alignment shift saves, and hold them there in a prison for a few weeks. The magic of the plane itself will force their alignment to good with a daily check. Then they will be good, and able to reintegrate into society to atone for their crimes through positive deeds.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-18, 04:47 PM
In a civilization advanced enough that plane shifting criminals is an option, forced rehabilitation becomes much more attractive instead of the death penalty. Don't send them to hell to punish them, send them to a good-aligned plane that forces alignment shift saves, and hold them there in a prison for a few weeks. The magic of the plane itself will force their alignment to good with a daily check. Then they will be good, and able to reintegrate into society to atone for their crimes through positive deeds.

Does 5e have that? Also, that'd be reversable with one dispel good and evil.

Man_Over_Game
2020-08-18, 04:57 PM
The Death Penalty is effectively the same meaning as "your life is forfeit". However, I propose that an intelligent and ruthless overlord would add the words "To You".

Use Geas.

Taking a note from real-world prison sentences, people are a valuable resource. Having a prisoner means you can also have a laborer, the trick is to keep him willing (and most people don't want to die). Additionally, ransom bail is something that you can profit from as you keep the prisoners on Death Row.

So you either end up having an indefinite slave, or you get paid a ton of money through your corrupt, profitable legal system.

kobo1d
2020-08-18, 05:12 PM
Does 5e have that? Also, that'd be reversable with one dispel good and evil.

Optional rule for Bytopia in the DMG, but you are correct about Dispel Good and Evil, which I honestly forgot was even a spell. The use of which in that way would also have to be illegal in such a setup, I suppose.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-18, 05:26 PM
Optional rule for Bytopia in the DMG, but you are correct about Dispel Good and Evil, which I honestly forgot was even a spell. The use of which in that way would also have to be illegal in such a setup, I suppose.

See the thing about people who want to free criminals.. is that they don't always refrain from doing things because they are illegal.
Also that means things that change your alignment to evil would be hard to fix, on account of people trying to dispel evil being more likely to follow the law.

Lunali
2020-08-18, 05:29 PM
In a civilization advanced enough that plane shifting criminals is an option, forced rehabilitation becomes much more attractive instead of the death penalty. Don't send them to hell to punish them, send them to a good-aligned plane that forces alignment shift saves, and hold them there in a prison for a few weeks. The magic of the plane itself will force their alignment to good with a daily check. Then they will be good, and able to reintegrate into society to atone for their crimes through positive deeds.

It is entirely possible for a Lawful good creature to be a criminal or even a serial killer. In fact I would argue that is the entire premise for the show Dexter.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-18, 05:33 PM
It is entirely possible for a Lawful good creature to be a criminal or even a serial killer. In fact I would argue that is the entire premise for the show Dexter.

Ehhh I think.. I think if you can find that conclusion.. you may be doing alignment wrong... uhh...
Criminal I understand vaguely, if the society has extremely unjust laws.. but serial killer... generally speaking that goes against both law and good...

D+1
2020-08-18, 06:20 PM
I've been pondering what the Death Penalty might look like in a magical world.

Sure, they could be boring and just use an axe like real life...

But that person could be resurrected if they have rich and powerful friends.Simple matter of reconsidering what the afterlife really is in a magical world. Simply put, if the afterlife is some form of existence that the deceased WANTED to be rewarded with upon their death, then they won't return to life even when spells are cast to permit it. They don't want that no more. They may have THOUGHT they would, but once in the blissful afterlife they CHOOSE that afterlife and not the struggle and torment of mortality. Yet, if their afterlife is something that they DON'T want then almost certainly there are deities and powerful supernatural forces that WILL NOT PERMIT that individual to return to life. There will be very few exceptions - and essentially those exceptions are SPECIFICALLY ones which the DM chooses to permit.

Clearly player characters get to make the decisions for their PC's and few DM's are going to tell players, "YOUR character doesn't even get to come back if you want it. Roll a new PC." But EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME WORLD is directly under the DM's thumb. The DM's cruel whims will pretty much always win in this regard. If the DM wants an NPC to be raised, they get raised. But if the resurrection of ANY NPC EVER is in any way a problem for the DM if they return to life, then they don't. Period.

So NPC's in the DM's campaign don't need to worry about executed prisoners somehow returning to life. Not ever. No matter what methods they use for the execution. Either they ARE executed and safely remain dead forever, or THE GODS (under the auspices of the DM personally) permit THAT individual to return, for whatever reasons the DM has for letting that happen. It wouldn't matter if they use Bags of Devouring. NPC's can't trump what the DM wants to have happen.


So...what if a Kingdom used a Bag of Devouring as its execution method?

It's a pretty solid way to prevent resurrections, at least.Still assumes the DM wants to permit any (and every) given resurrection to happen in the first place - and there are LOTS AND LOTS of reasons for DM's to NOT permit that to happen. Forget the Bag of Devouring, it is in a DM's own interests to have all those who are NOT PC's to remain dead under any and all circumstances - unless the DM has very good and justifiable reasons to want that dead NPC returned to life. Not just any farmer kicked to death by his ornery mule gets to be resurrected. Any NPC who WANTS to return to mortality and whose deities and supernatural governing forces will PERMIT it, gets to come back, but 99.9% of those NPC's who die, stay dead. Resurrection magic isn't part of the game for them to repeatedly come back to life. It's for PLAYER CHARACTERS. Always has been. Most DM's are just too dim to permit themselves to OVERRULE the rules and will instead assume that they themselves are OBLIGATED by the rules to have all NPC's keep coming back as long as a reason can be drummed up for the appropriate spells to be applied somehow, someway, somewhere.


Also, would anyone have ethical complaints about this?Nope. Just pity for DM's who won't just have their campaign worlds make sense.

Lunali
2020-08-18, 10:14 PM
Ehhh I think.. I think if you can find that conclusion.. you may be doing alignment wrong... uhh...
Criminal I understand vaguely, if the society has extremely unjust laws.. but serial killer... generally speaking that goes against both law and good...

A person who is extremely methodical and calculating making extensive plans in advance and sticking to them is considered lawful. A person who kills people they believe to be harmful to society is considered good, after all, that's largely why adventurers can ever call themselves good. Honestly, most LG PCs could be considered mass murderers from a different point of view.

Tanarii
2020-08-18, 10:25 PM
A person who is extremely methodical and calculating making extensive plans in advance and sticking to them is considered lawful. A person who kills people they believe to be harmful to society is considered good, after all, that's largely why adventurers can ever call themselves good. Honestly, most LG PCs could be considered mass murderers from a different point of view.
That's why Orcs exist. So you can mass murder with impunity and still be LG. Edit: uh ... caveat I'm talking about saving civilization from CE pillaging Orcs of course. Just, like, to be clear.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-18, 10:32 PM
A person who is extremely methodical and calculating making extensive plans in advance and sticking to them is considered lawful. A person who kills people they believe to be harmful to society is considered good, after all, that's largely why adventurers can ever call themselves good. Honestly, most LG PCs could be considered mass murderers from a different point of view.

I.. guess I'll concede. To be perfectly honest though, my campaigns either have a greater focus on finding peaceful solutions with sentient humanoids (the good ones), or all of the pcs have put Chaotic Evil on their sheets. Nothing to do with me, all of my players are just... like that...

Porcupinata
2020-08-19, 04:32 AM
I had a kingdom in which the "executioner" was a medusa - rather than being killed, criminals were turned to stone.

That had a number of advantages from an in-world point of view:

They couldn't be raised, not even by a True Res, because technically they weren't dead.
It was considered less cruel than other methods (such as the Imprisonment spell or a Mirror of Life Trapping) because people who are statues aren't aware of anything.
It was easy and cheap to do, not requiring powerful spells.
It was reversible without harm if the person was later discovered to be innocent (or some kind of ransom/weregeld or similar arrangement was reached).
The statues could be displayed as an example/deterrent to others.

It also had the advantage from a story point of view in that it meant that to get someone back required an actual rescue attempt rather than just finding someone high enough level to cast True Res.

Porcupinata
2020-08-19, 04:38 AM
There used to be a spell called Trap the Soul, which was dropped somewhere during development in 5e, and which still exists on the 8th level Wizard spell list in the PHB, although no description does. It explicitly blocked Resurrection as long as the gem used remained intact. It was a Necromancy spell, and was quite evil. The nearest equivalent I am aware of is the ability of an Acererak-style Demilich to consume a soul. A deal with such an entity would be both unwise, and effective in this situation.

It wasn't dropped. It was merged into the Imprisonment spell as one of the options ("Minimus Containment").

In earlier editions, Imprisonment didn't have a choice of options, it only had the "Burial" one. Presumably at some point in 5e's development they realised how similar Imprisonment and Trap the Soul were, and merged them into a single spell giving two different containment options (and then added a few more containment options as well).

Aussiehams
2020-08-19, 02:20 PM
Simple matter of reconsidering what the afterlife really is in a magical world. Simply put, if the afterlife is some form of existence that the deceased WANTED to be rewarded with upon their death, then they won't return to life even when spells are cast to permit it. They don't want that no more. They may have THOUGHT they would, but once in the blissful afterlife they CHOOSE that afterlife and not the struggle and torment of mortality. Yet, if their afterlife is something that they DON'T want then almost certainly there are deities and powerful supernatural forces that WILL NOT PERMIT that individual to return to life. There will be very few exceptions - and essentially those exceptions are SPECIFICALLY ones which the DM chooses to permit.

Clearly player characters get to make the decisions for their PC's and few DM's are going to tell players, "YOUR character doesn't even get to come back if you want it. Roll a new PC." But EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME WORLD is directly under the DM's thumb. The DM's cruel whims will pretty much always win in this regard. If the DM wants an NPC to be raised, they get raised. But if the resurrection of ANY NPC EVER is in any way a problem for the DM if they return to life, then they don't. Period.

So NPC's in the DM's campaign don't need to worry about executed prisoners somehow returning to life. Not ever. No matter what methods they use for the execution. Either they ARE executed and safely remain dead forever, or THE GODS (under the auspices of the DM personally) permit THAT individual to return, for whatever reasons the DM has for letting that happen. It wouldn't matter if they use Bags of Devouring. NPC's can't trump what the DM wants to have happen.

Still assumes the DM wants to permit any (and every) given resurrection to happen in the first place - and there are LOTS AND LOTS of reasons for DM's to NOT permit that to happen. Forget the Bag of Devouring, it is in a DM's own interests to have all those who are NOT PC's to remain dead under any and all circumstances - unless the DM has very good and justifiable reasons to want that dead NPC returned to life. Not just any farmer kicked to death by his ornery mule gets to be resurrected. Any NPC who WANTS to return to mortality and whose deities and supernatural governing forces will PERMIT it, gets to come back, but 99.9% of those NPC's who die, stay dead. Resurrection magic isn't part of the game for them to repeatedly come back to life. It's for PLAYER CHARACTERS. Always has been. Most DM's are just too dim to permit themselves to OVERRULE the rules and will instead assume that they themselves are OBLIGATED by the rules to have all NPC's keep coming back as long as a reason can be drummed up for the appropriate spells to be applied somehow, someway, somewhere.

Nope. Just pity for DM's who won't just have their campaign worlds make sense.

I would argue that way of thinking makes less sense, unless you play a very "PCs are touched by destiny" type campaign.
Any and all things that can happen to a PC should be able to happen to a NPC as they are all.part of the same world, with the same rules of magic etc.

That said PCs are the heroes and have abnormal things happen to them, but anything the PCs encounter should be possible for Joe the farmer.

And I quite like the Medussa idea.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-19, 02:41 PM
I had a kingdom in which the "executioner" was a medusa - rather than being killed, criminals were turned to stone.

That had a number of advantages from an in-world point of view:

They couldn't be raised, not even by a True Res, because technically they weren't dead.
It was considered less cruel than other methods (such as the Imprisonment spell or a Mirror of Life Trapping) because people who are statues aren't aware of anything.
It was easy and cheap to do, not requiring powerful spells.
It was reversible without harm if the person was later discovered to be innocent (or some kind of ransom/weregeld or similar arrangement was reached).
The statues could be displayed as an example/deterrent to others.

It also had the advantage from a story point of view in that it meant that to get someone back required an actual rescue attempt rather than just finding someone high enough level to cast True Res.

I actually love the medusa idea so much!

Grod_The_Giant
2020-08-19, 05:02 PM
Still assumes the DM wants to permit any (and every) given resurrection to happen in the first place - and there are LOTS AND LOTS of reasons for DM's to NOT permit that to happen. Forget the Bag of Devouring, it is in a DM's own interests to have all those who are NOT PC's to remain dead under any and all circumstances - unless the DM has very good and justifiable reasons to want that dead NPC returned to life. Not just any farmer kicked to death by his ornery mule gets to be resurrected. Any NPC who WANTS to return to mortality and whose deities and supernatural governing forces will PERMIT it, gets to come back, but 99.9% of those NPC's who die, stay dead. Resurrection magic isn't part of the game for them to repeatedly come back to life. It's for PLAYER CHARACTERS. Always has been. Most DM's are just too dim to permit themselves to OVERRULE the rules and will instead assume that they themselves are OBLIGATED by the rules to have all NPC's keep coming back as long as a reason can be drummed up for the appropriate spells to be applied somehow, someway, somewhere.
But "very good and justifiable reasons" can very easily be "the NPC's allies want them back and can afford to pay off a high priest." In a setting where resurrection is possible, NPCs are going to want to use it sometimes. Besides, "we feed our condemned prisoners to a Bag of Devouring to make sure they can never be brought back" is good color.

Tvtyrant
2020-08-19, 05:08 PM
Don't execute them, use Flesh to Stone and then grind up the statue and throw it into the wind.

MaxWilson
2020-08-19, 05:36 PM
Don't execute them, use Flesh to Stone and then grind up the statue and throw it into the wind.

That is the same as executing them--Petrified creatures are resistant to all damage (according to the Conditions PHB Appendex), but grinding them to dust is surely enough damage to kill them anyway.

Wizard_Lizard
2020-08-19, 05:51 PM
That is the same as executing them--Petrified creatures are resistant to all damage (according to the Conditions PHB Appendex), but grinding them to dust is surely enough damage to kill them anyway.
I mean you could break the arms off and then cast cure wounds or something.

Kyutaru
2020-08-19, 06:08 PM
So with the bag of eating process, what's the procedure for filing an appeal?

Lunali
2020-08-19, 06:26 PM
So with the bag of eating process, what's the procedure for filing an appeal?

Convicted criminal must personally file the appeal forms in triplicate following their exectution, to date no one has ever asked for the forms.

Angelalex242
2020-08-19, 07:17 PM
Within the meta narrative of the worlds I like to play with, anyone who can afford a resurrection spell can pay to have one cast on anyone whose body is intact enough for it.

Some of these kingdoms have, in the past, had problems with criminals that work for nobles getting resurrected after being executed because the nobles could afford to pay for the spell.

They sent adventurers on a quest to find a bag of devouring to stop this from happening...

It also proved to be a bigger deterrent to criminals working for the nobility, because now they know they'll get eaten by the bag and the nobles probably don't love them to the tune of 25k in diamonds.

By the same principle, the meta narrative includes things like most noble families having diamonds of various sizes around to resurrect any family members that get killed at the local temple.

So, dead people only stay dead if you're poor.

But if you're D&D Bill Gates, nothing, really, can kill you, because even a Bag of Devouring can't stop your family from spending 25k on your behalf, as often as it takes.

Tvtyrant
2020-08-19, 07:26 PM
Within the meta narrative of the worlds I like to play with, anyone who can afford a resurrection spell can pay to have one cast on anyone whose body is intact enough for it.

Some of these kingdoms have, in the past, had problems with criminals that work for nobles getting resurrected after being executed because the nobles could afford to pay for the spell.

They sent adventurers on a quest to find a bag of devouring to stop this from happening...

It also proved to be a bigger deterrent to criminals working for the nobility, because now they know they'll get eaten by the bag and the nobles probably don't love them to the tune of 25k in diamonds.

By the same principle, the meta narrative includes things like most noble families having diamonds of various sizes around to resurrect any family members that get killed at the local temple.

So, dead people only stay dead if you're poor.

But if you're D&D Bill Gates, nothing, really, can kill you, because even a Bag of Devouring can't stop your family from spending 25k on your behalf, as often as it takes.

In that case I would imagine the world would quickly run out of diamonds as nations resurrect their best leaders again and again.

Kyutaru
2020-08-19, 07:35 PM
In that case I would imagine the world would quickly run out of diamonds as nations resurrect their best leaders again and again.
Why would they? Like they care about them. Most of them only followed those leaders to gain power and wealth. Spending their wealth and power to bring him back is counteracting his usefulness.

The world runs on greed so it's better to just take his place as the new leader.

Lunali
2020-08-19, 10:30 PM
Would like to point out that NPCs won't always be willing and able to return, if they're enjoying their new relaxing existence or if their soul is somehow bound after death, the spell will fail, using up the components. Also, a clever cleric might take advantage of this to palm the diamond and pretend to cast the spell, saying it failed, refusing payment for their 9th level spell since it didn't work after all.

pr4wn
2020-08-19, 11:55 PM
How about an executioner with a Hellfire beheading axe? Their soul instantly pops out of the river Styx as a Lemure...

I believe that puts them beyond what even true resurrection can deal with (ie the soul is not free to return).

-pr4wn

Angelalex242
2020-08-20, 03:08 PM
Hellfire beheading axe is a good idea...but then, you have to consider what kind of deal the kingdom made with Amodeus (or another archdevil) to get that axe...

And no, the world won't run out of diamonds, because there's always more on the elemental plane of Earth, and D&D Bill Gates pays adventurers to go there and find more for him every time he needs the current 25k in diamonds to revive himself.

And the elemental plane of Earth literally can't run out of diamonds.

It is entirely possible Diamonds are pretty much gone on the material plane, however, and engagement rings now use sapphires and rubies because diamonds are life insurance policies for the wealthy.

You see a similar concept to this in Order of the Stick, where the Oracle Kobold predicts his own death every time and pays a cleric in advance to resurrect him when it happens.

Lunali
2020-08-20, 03:34 PM
Hellfire beheading axe is a good idea...but then, you have to consider what kind of deal the kingdom made with Amodeus (or another archdevil) to get that axe...

The deal is pretty simple, the kingdom agrees to use the axe for all executions and capital punishment must continue to be the punishment for the crimes where it is already the punishment. Devils have a vested interest in appearing to be reasonable.

Doug Lampert
2020-08-20, 04:39 PM
Few things to remember....

1) Odds are the vast majority of people executed aren't going to have rich and powerful friends to cast high level spells.


When's the last time someone rich was executed for a crime in the real world?

Consider how MUCH money a resurrection costs, someone with friends with that kind of money isn't going to be executed in most jurisdictions, he'll pay a ransom and go into exile at about the worst.

Previous editions: I've used both a medusa, and execution followed by zombification and the zombie being sent to a hard to access demiplane as methods of stopping powerful enemies from coming back. 5th edition Finger of Death makes the Zombie option much easier and would probably make it the go-to method if this came up in my game.

Angelalex242
2020-08-20, 05:40 PM
Well...I don't want to comment about real world rich people, because that'll overlap with banned topics REAL quick. Let's...stick to fantasy figure rich people, even if I did use Bill Gates earlier. :P

smp4life
2020-08-20, 10:56 PM
imprisonment.
True polymorphed into a chair and placed on a demiplane protected by mordenkainen's private sanctum.
killed with blackrazor, or rakdos riteknife.
trapped inside a mirror of life trapping.
turn them into a shadow or wraith and place them in confinement so they can't be slain.
wish.
etc etc

Lunali
2020-08-21, 08:12 AM
A lot of people have suggested petrification, but there's a problem with that too. Any group with enough money to cast true resurrection would also have enough to commission a statue in the person's honor to swap with the real one. This means that you still have to build a prison and guard it. And while it is easier to guard and otherwise deal with statues than real people, it is harder to keep the guards alert.

Angelalex242
2020-08-21, 08:56 AM
At that point, it's almost easier to drop the statue in the middle of the ocean, or on the elemental plane of water, or somewhere else with natural defenses people can't easily get to, but won't damage stone.

Tvtyrant
2020-08-21, 09:47 AM
At that point, it's almost easier to drop the statue in the middle of the ocean, or on the elemental plane of water, or somewhere else with natural defenses people can't easily get to, but won't damage stone.

Find a dragon that hordes statues and gift them to it.

TigerT20
2020-08-21, 10:18 AM
A lot of people have suggested petrification, but there's a problem with that too. Any group with enough money to cast true resurrection would also have enough to commission a statue in the person's honor to swap with the real one. This means that you still have to build a prison and guard it. And while it is easier to guard and otherwise deal with statues than real people, it is harder to keep the guards alert.

Let the medusa keep it as decoration.

Anyone caught trying to take a statue gets added to the collection.

Lunali
2020-08-21, 10:29 AM
Let the medusa keep it as decoration.

Anyone caught trying to take a statue gets added to the collection.

I don't see how a medusa would be significantly more reliable as a guard than normal guards. Especially when you're using to prevent people from using 9th level spells to bring their friends back.

Anymage
2020-08-21, 11:37 AM
What's the context for the executions?

If it's "basic" criminal acts, it's not unknown for rich people to essentially just have to pay a fine while poor people have to face the whole brunt of their consequences. It isn't fair, but that's life. And frankly, the more likely a place is to throw around the death penalty, the less likely they are to be concerned with such details.

If it's someone who has powerful friends causing trouble, you probably don't want to upset those friends too badly. If the prince of a neighboring country winds up serial killing your citizens, you still probably don't want to piss off his dad too badly. Kill them and deliver the body. The pain of being killed plus the cost of resurrection can be understood as the cost of so flagrantly violating your laws, their own nation can take over from there without causing an incident.

If a grand diabolical wizard is wreaking havoc and you know his infernal allies will just bring him back every time he falls, there's a reason that sealing away ancient evils is a time-honored trope. Yes, you do need a spell to contain him and then some way to secure the remains. In universe this makes sense as the best way to handle recurrent enemies, and out of universe this makes for much richer plot ideas.

Witty Username
2020-08-22, 01:12 AM
Flesh to stone, and display them prominently as a warning to others, they can't be raised if you don't kill them. Also, imprisonment can have much the same effect.

Fire also works well, the less body you leave the harder the trip back for the soul.

Porcupinata
2020-08-23, 06:52 AM
A lot of people have suggested petrification, but there's a problem with that too. Any group with enough money to cast true resurrection would also have enough to commission a statue in the person's honor to swap with the real one. This means that you still have to build a prison and guard it. And while it is easier to guard and otherwise deal with statues than real people, it is harder to keep the guards alert.

That's not a problem, it's an adventure hook!

cutlery
2020-08-23, 08:05 AM
If your friends are willing and able to use something like True Resurrection or Wish, I suspect you might not actually face the execution in the first place.