A ranger in the underdark

[Trandir]

We get 27 point buy, and all published manuals and UA to work with to build our 5th level PCs.

I decided to go with a gloom stalker but I never even looked at how this class works.

So can anyone help me to build this character? Or advice something else to play that works too.

Edit. The DM actually allows UA. Soooooooo ranger got immediately a lot better

[Bobthewizard]

Gloomstalker is awesome. Play it. Even the PHB one is good.

My favorite is variant human with crossbow expert and sharpshooter. Use a hand crossbow, hide in the dark, and shoot things in the light.

8,15,14,10,15,8 stats and add +1 to Dex and Wis

[Trandir]

Gloomstalker is awesome. Play it. Even the PHB one is good.

My favorite is variant human with crossbow expert and sharpshooter. Use a hand crossbow, hide in the dark, and shoot things in the light.

8,15,14,10,15,8 stats and add +1 to Dex and Wis

That would definetly work. But I find me in the usual "booo V. human boring" mindset. What are other good options for the races?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gloom Stalker is perfect, and of course pick Underdark for your favored terrain. Favored enemy should probably be aberrations, and go with the archery fighting style.

Play a Goblin, you can hide or disengage as a bonus action, plus darkvision, and small size (squeezing through small tunnels is easier) but still with a 30 ft. speed. I'd go either Str 8, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 8, or Str 10, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8. First ASI should be Crossbow Expert, next one will be Sharpshooter, use a hand crossbow and (small) shield, you shouldn't expect many long range fights in the Underdark.

Regardless of what background you pick, take Deep Delver (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/OotA_CharacterBackgrounds.pdf) from Out of the Abyss as your background feature. I'd use a custom background (PHB p125) that gets thieves' tools, a language, and Survival and Insight, with the equipment from the Inheritor background in SCAG to start play with a set of free thieves' tools. Ranger gets you three skills, pick the same ones as your background gives you and you can replace them with any two skill proficiencies you want, ignoring the limited list for your class (PHB p125). This gets you Acrobatics without making an excuse to put it in your background proficiencies. Your starting proficiencies should be Survival, Insight, Acrobatics, Stealth, and Perception, plus Thieves Tools, Common, Goblin, and Undercommon.

If you can start play with one or more magic items, an uncommon item should be a +1 weapon for sure, if you get more than one a +1 shield and/or a dagger or shortsword of warning (which is still magic for overcoming resistance). Common items that are useful include an Orb of Time or Pole of Collapsing in Xanathar's, or potions of healing.

[Meichrob7]

If you’re sick and tired of playing a variant human then an elf would be an interesting option. Shadar Kai would be particularly interesting, both from a personality perspective, a more “thematic synergy” aspect, and mechanically due to having a really good “oh ****” option in their bonus action teleport.

As an elf you gain access to the oh so coveted “Elven Accuracy” which means any enemy using dark vision is gonna get hit with your “super advantage” attack rolls, because as a gloom stalker you’re functionally invisible.

The obvious choice after that is to go with sharpshooter to make good use of those extra rolls since sharpshooter gives you a 1:2 conversion rate of accuracy to damage.

Another fun thing to do with gloom stalker is to go 3 levels of battlemaster. This gives you 4 d8 to use for various shenanigans, but most all of them add a d8 to your attacks. If you really need some turn 1 Nova then you can make 6 attacks off an action surge (gloom stalker’s triggering twice here since it just says “when you take the attack action” not “the first time”) and you can use your superiority dice on the first two attacks do each action, making all six of your attacks do 2d8 +(Dex Mod) damage. While three levels is the minimum to do this you may want to go 4, just for the ASI/feat.

In terms of spells useful in the underdark.

- Absorb elements is always an amazing spell.

- Goodberry is almost required in the underdark so if no one else has it, take it.

- Hunters mark is very useful to throw out if you’re gonna make 6 attacks right after you do. That makes it a 1st level spell that does 6d6.

- Jump is more useful than you’d imagine since it can help hide from tremorsense creatures and cross ravines that are pretty common below ground.

- Zephyr strike is a decent spell to have in an emergency since it pulls double duty by serving as a dash and disengage action with just a bonus action.

- Healing Spirit is just a broken spell to have.

- Rope trick is super useful since long tunnels often leave no place to hide or escape and thus using rope trick as an emergency hiding place comes up more often that it would in a normal adventure.

- Pass without trace is okay but if you decide to take any rogue levels, especially assassin, then it becomes a mandatory spell.

That covers all the first and second level ranger spells which is admittedly all I have experience with. I’ve never played a pure ranger past level 7 or so, and the one I played in the underdark campaign I did only went ranger till level 5. Hope some of this helps.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I like to take a drow as a gloom stalker.
You get 150ft darkvision and can say you come from a land down under were woman glow(dancing light near the enemies to give your party vision without you leaving the darkness) and man plunder (looting and shooting your bow).

SS is a great feat for it. So is EA.
Dex and archery style.
In combat stay away from your party and light.

Try to move light sources to your enemies if you can(dancing light in moat of combat to save spell slots and feriy fire from your race).

You will probably get underdark as favourite area and safely lead your party in there.

I will take elfs and other humanoid as favoured enemy (I prefer goblin but dwarfs may be better).

Just remember that the DM may want to throw a book on you when you shoot his boss from 150ft down with SS and your extra attack you get in the first round (the gloom stalker in my game took two levels of fighter after level 5 to get 6 shoots in the first round with action surge. He took 3 level in fighter for samurai advantage in cases he don't have darkness to hide in).

[Waazraath]

I like to take a drow as a gloom stalker.
You get 150ft darkvision

This, seriously. Get drow, duergar, or deep gnome. The advantage of the latter is that it doesn't get light blindness, so if you ever leave the underdark, you won't be hindered by disadvantage on attacks and perception during daytime.

The annoying thing about underdark adventures can be that every monster (and its mother) has 120ft darkvision, while you normally only have maximum 60ft - meaning you'll get ambushed all the time, and it's almost impossible to ambush others. This turns it the other way around: with 150ft darkvision, you'll get the drop on them. Seriously cool. Unless you have humans, halflngs or dragonborn in the party who need a torch, then it's a good idea totally wasted and useless :)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

This, seriously. Get drow, duergar, or deep gnome. The advantage of the latter is that it doesn't get light blindness, so if you ever leave the underdark, you won't be hindered by disadvantage on attacks and perception during daytime.

The annoying thing about underdark adventures can be that every monster (and its mother) has 120ft darkvision, while you normally only have maximum 60ft - meaning you'll get ambushed all the time, and it's almost impossible to ambush others. This turns it the other way around: with 150ft darkvision, you'll get the drop on them. Seriously cool. Unless you have humans, halflngs or dragonborn in the party who need a torch, then it's a good idea totally wasted and useless :)

Just scout Infront of them, find enemy and go get them.
There are a lot of ways you get your enemies to be in light for your non darkvision party members.
Arrow with light, dancing light(the reason I prefer drow), throwing a torch, ferie fire and maybe even casting darkvision on your party.

[Trandir]

So what I am getting out of the advice so far is:

-V Human is great for a crossbow build.
-Wood elf is the stereotipical ranger for a reason.
-Kobold main feature is pack tactics which should not be necessary as a gloomstalker
-Any race with preexisting darkvision is very good since it would give better scouting potential.

Now ranger might want to use the BA for spells and what have you so the crossbow expert loses a bit of appeal, but sharpshooter+elven accuracy+easy advantage does seem really good.

And of the 3 races with superior darkvision only the drow would offer appealing ability score increases.

I am beginning to strongly consider wood elf.

[Keravath]

So what I am getting out of the advice so far is:

-V Human is great for a crossbow build.
-Wood elf is the stereotipical ranger for a reason.
-Kobold main feature is pack tactics which should not be necessary as a gloomstalker
-Any race with preexisting darkvision is very good since it would give better scouting potential.

Now ranger might want to use the BA for spells and what have you so the crossbow expert loses a bit of appeal, but sharpshooter+elven accuracy+easy advantage does seem really good.

And of the 3 races with superior darkvision only the drow would offer appealing ability score increases.

I am beginning to strongly consider wood elf.

Ranger is only likely to have a bonus action conflict if using hunter's mark. It is a bonus action to cast and move. However, against tougher targets you won't be moving it much.

Also, Sharpshooter, everyone goes oooh about +10 damage ... and often doesn't factor in the -5 to hit (-3 in the case of archery fighting style). In tier 1 with a 16 stat and +2 proficiency. Your to hit will go from +5 to 0 or +2. If you have advantage this tends to help compensate but if you have a target with AC 16 ... you are looking at rolling a 14 if you use sharpshooter and have archery. The idea to keep in mind is that the point where trading off becomes worthwhile is typically not so good in tier 1 ... by the end of tier 2 and tier 3 you would likely use it most if not all of the time ... so sharpshooter isn't a feat you need right away unless you want it for the extended range and avoiding of cover penalties if your DM uses that rule.

Wood elf is a good choice since the stats and abilities mesh well with ranger. Bonus to wisdom, proficiency in perception frees up one of your other skills, additional base movement ...

Goblin might be worth considering since it gets a bonus action hide ability built in. For a gloomstalker this is amazing since being invisible in darkness (if opponents are using darkvision to see you) means you can always hide and your opponents will no longer know where you are - they have to guess. This loses value if you ever plan to multiclass into rogue which is a popular option for gloomstalkers.

Variant human lets you get the feats earlier. Xbow expert is good but another option is the Alert feat which combined with the gloomstalker bonus to initiative means you would frequently go first in most situations.

[da newt]

I'd recommend MC to Rogue once you get to Ranger 5 for xtra attack. A 1 lvl dip is mighty handy and then you can look at more rogue, more ranger or MC fighter for the sweet action surge and second FS, depending on your build desires.

I also like goblin for a race.

[Whit]

Not much to add. Lots of great options.
Only thing to mention is
Action surge I thought was only for fighter. Someone listed it under gloomstalker/ranger

[MinotaurWarrior]

I would strongly recommend something like Drow Gloomstalker 5 / Echo Knight 3 / Assassin 3.

The abilities all stack, so you can get 8 auto crit attacks made with super advantage. 150' dark vision, invisibility, and access to pass without trace makes surprise very likely. Bonus Wis to initiative increases the likelihood of going before your intended target.

After that comes online, I'd go to 5/4/4 for 20 Dex and sharpshooter.

[Trandir]

Well. Our DM actually allowed UA all along and there was a misunderstanding. This invalidates a bit the previous help I received since I'd guess taking a couple more levels in ranger has gotten a lot more appealing now.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

One of my first AD&D characters was a Deep Gnome Thief, so I've got a soft spot for that sort of character. 150 feet of darkvision sounds awesome with this character. 1 level of Rogue and you've got expertise in Stealth so it should be pretty functional too.

[8wGremlin]

I played a deep gnome (svirfneblin) Gloomstalker Ranger - archer, used a pistol crossbow, and heavy crossbow.
was BRUTALLY effective in the out of the abyss,
Key points:

the extended superior darkvision was amazing, 150' more than a drow can see
Invisibility to Darkvision
as well as advantage to stealth in rocky areas
magic resistance

[MinotaurWarrior]

Well. Our DM actually allowed UA all along and there was a misunderstanding. This invalidates a bit the previous help I received since I'd guess taking a couple more levels in ranger has gotten a lot more appealing now.

In that case... I'd still recommend Drow Gloomstalker 5, spending your ASI on Elven Accuracy, but with Favored Enemy (Humanoids). 8/18/15/8/14/10


Then Assassin 3 / Echo Knight 3

Then Assassin 4 or Echo Knight 4 (Sharp Shooter)

Then Ranger 6 (GFE: Aberration)

Then either Assassin 4 or Echo Knight 4 (+2 Dex)

Then the last 6 levels are fairly open. I might go twilight cleric 6.

[Trandir]

Is the superior darkvision better than the advantages provided by wood elf (or even aereni wood elf)?

And all the CFV are better than the regular features, right?

And lastly any advice for the spells to take (including the expanded spell list from the UA)? I'd get 4 in total so picking good ones seems pretty important.

[Waazraath]

Just scout Infront of them, find enemy and go get them.
There are a lot of ways you get your enemies to be in light for your non darkvision party members.
Arrow with light, dancing light(the reason I prefer drow), throwing a torch, ferie fire and maybe even casting darkvision on your party.

I guess it is DM dependent, but when you are scouting and have only 60 or 90 ft darkvision and encountering creatures who have 120ft, you get to a point where you are 'hiding' against somebody you haven't seen yet. It is questionable if you can do this at all, or I'd say this is at the very least disadvantage on stealth. While when you have 150ft darkvision it is the other way around, you have 30ft of movement in which potential opponents can't see you, but you can see them.

Therefor:


I played a deep gnome (svirfneblin) Gloomstalker Ranger - archer, used a pistol crossbow, and heavy crossbow.
was BRUTALLY effective in the out of the abyss,
Key points:

the extended superior darkvision was amazing, 150' more than a drow can see
Invisibility to Darkvision
as well as advantage to stealth in rocky areas
magic resistance


I really think this is a splendid way to go. I play OotA at the moment, with max 60ft dv, and it really hurts when you get ambushed (and I suspect we get ambushed a lot more often then we would have if we would have 120ft or 150ft dv).

But again, ymmv depending on how a DM rules in this specific stealth / perception situation.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Is the superior darkvision better than the advantages provided by wood elf (or even aereni wood elf)?

And all the CFV are better than the regular features, right?

And lastly any advice for the spells to take (including the expanded spell list from the UA)? I'd get 4 in total so picking good ones seems pretty important.

Superior darkvision gives you more rounds with advantage, and more combats where you can see the enemy group before they can see the party. The cost for a 2/3 improvement in vision is 5% passive perception, 1/6 your movement, hiding in bushes (when you are basically always invisible), and expertise. But if you are following my plan, you end up getting two expertise next level, for Stealth and Perception.

The variant ranger features are better than the regular features, but Gloomstalker is better than the UA version.

Your spells should include hunter's mark and pass without trace. They're honestly so important the other two are kind of like trivia. I personally like Alarm and Locate Animals and Plants. LAAP is unlikely for anyone else to have, is a ritual, and can be cleverly used to solve a fair number of problems in clever ways. Alarm is also a ritual, and is most useful on days where you go to bed with an unused spell slot.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I guess it is DM dependent, but when you are scouting and have only 60 or 90 ft darkvision and encountering creatures who have 120ft, you get to a point where you are 'hiding' against somebody you haven't seen yet. It is questionable if you can do this at all, or I'd say this is at the very least disadvantage on stealth. While when you have 150ft darkvision it is the other way around, you have 30ft of movement in which potential opponents can't see you, but you can see them.

Therefor:



I really think this is a splendid way to go. I play OotA at the moment, with max 60ft dv, and it really hurts when you get ambushed (and I suspect we get ambushed a lot more often then we would have if we would have 120ft or 150ft dv).

But again, ymmv depending on how a DM rules in this specific stealth / perception situation.

Will you give disadvantage to hide in a fog cloud or smoke?
If both parties can't see each other why will it give some disadvantage on stealth if they only need to stay quiet. If looks like it will make it easier.

And even if they notice him they still can't see him, he may not have suprise but he will be able to quickly get away and warn the party.

I of course ignore the fact I was talking about Drow Gloom stalker that also get 150ft because it was about how to handle a situation where your party want light.

[Trandir]

Superior darkvision gives you more rounds with advantage, and more combats where you can see the enemy group before they can see the party. The cost for a 2/3 improvement in vision is 5% passive perception, 1/6 your movement, hiding in bushes (when you are basically always invisible), and expertise. But if you are following my plan, you end up getting two expertise next level, for Stealth and Perception.

The variant ranger features are better than the regular features, but Gloomstalker is better than the UA version.

Your spells should include hunter's mark and pass without trace. They're honestly so important the other two are kind of like trivia. I personally like Alarm and Locate Animals and Plants. LAAP is unlikely for anyone else to have, is a ritual, and can be cleverly used to solve a fair number of problems in clever ways. Alarm is also a ritual, and is most useful on days where you go to bed with an unused spell slot.

And the big cost is more the 1/2 ASI since Cha is completely useless on a ranger, while Wis has a lot of utility.


I was talking about the class feature variant rather than revised ranger, which among other stuff provides both hunter mark and locate animals and plants for free as spells kown.

[Man on Fire]

We get 27 point buy, and all published manuals and UA to work with to build our 5th level PCs.

I decided to go with a gloom stalker but I never even looked at how this class works.

So can anyone help me to build this character? Or advice something else to play that works too.

Edit. The DM actually allows UA. Soooooooo ranger got immediately a lot better

I would use class feature variants Ranger as it is a nice balance and you cannot use Gloo mStalker with Revised Ranger.

I would also consider multiclassing with a Rogue - Gloom Stalker Assassin is a strong, deadly build.

[MinotaurWarrior]

And the big cost is more the 1/2 ASI since Cha is completely useless on a ranger, while Wis has a lot of utility.


I was talking about the class feature variant rather than revised ranger, which among other stuff provides both hunter mark and locate animals and plants for free as spells kown.

The only way wisdom is really going to matter for you is your perception score, which I mentioned. It's a 5 percentage point difference in the likelihood of an enemy sneaking up on you. That's not nothing, but I don't personally think it's better than superior darkvision.

Keep in mind that RAW you only need to notice one threat to avoid being surprised. So when at level 6 (gloom 5 rogue 1) w/ expertise Stealth & Perception you have 18 PP. Two drider (CR 6, Stealth +9, 120ft darkvision) are going to surprise you from 150ft away or less about 30% of the time. At 90ft or less, the wood elf is surprised 25% of the time, but from 150-90ft they're actually surprised 56% of the time.

You're just not going to be casting spells with saves or using many other Wis skills.

Also if you can I'd use the ranger revised rather than the class feature variant. Both for the +2 / +4 damage and the much better ability to locate favored enemies.

[da newt]

WRT dark vision range and surprise, remember that as a gloom stalker if you are in the dark you are invisible to anyone who doesn't have blindsense, true sight, or something above and beyond dark vision. It's really hard to surprise someone you don't know is there / invisible.

[MinotaurWarrior]

WRT dark vision range and surprise, remember that as a gloom stalker if you are in the dark you are invisible to anyone who doesn't have blindsense, true sight, or something above and beyond dark vision. It's really hard to surprise someone you don't know is there / invisible.

This is somewhat more complex than you're laying out. Here's the key issue:

If the driders can perceive another party member and attack them, and you didn't perceive them, you are surprised even if you are hidden. This is a big deal for a Gloomstalker, because the first round of combat is where their power lies.

Now, exactly how likely that scenario is comes down to a lot of geometry, encounter, and marching order details that are hard to pin down. But I personally think it's pretty significant.

[Bobthewizard]

That would definetly work. But I find me in the usual "booo V. human boring" mindset. What are other good options for the races?

Elven accuracy is great so wood elf, sea elf or shadar-kai make good gloom stalkers. Elves are better archers at high levels once the ASI and stats catch up. You're just behind the V. human until maybe level 12.

Goblins get good stat increases and get a bonus action disengage or hide, so you can skip the Rogue dip.

Tabaxi get climbing, although if you are using the class variant UA you can start with climb/swim speed, which is my favorite of the 3 options.