getting more Eldritch blast

[mealar]

so this is just a real quick character building question,

i just got my copy of the Explorers guide to Wildemont and am now looking to make my "force wizard"

the only thing i need to sort is a nice thematic cantrip for it, the obvious answer is Eldritch Blast so heres the question. How do i get EB to be a wizard spell that uses Int to cast?

i'm not looking for any of the invocations just that cantrip for the force damage, only other thing is the Sapping Sting which could work but isn't 100% clicking with me

[nickl_2000]

The quick answer is "you can't."


The longer answer: Eldritch Blast is a powerful spell, all other attack cantrips just aren't as good. EB is one of the reasons why Bards/Sorcerers/Paladin do a Warlock dip of 1 or 2 (there are others, but they aren't as important on this thread). Since wizard have so many other things already, they don't need Eldritch Blast and to be honest they shouldn't have it. If you really want to do this, you would be better off making a Wizard who has Int and Cha and either multiclassing or getting EB from Magic Initiate (triggering off charisma still).

[LudicSavant]

so this is just a real quick character building question,

i just got my copy of the Explorers guide to Wildemont and am now looking to make my "force wizard"

the only thing i need to sort is a nice thematic cantrip for it, the obvious answer is Eldritch Blast so heres the question. How do i get EB to be a wizard spell that uses Int to cast?

i'm not looking for any of the invocations just that cantrip for the force damage, only other thing is the Sapping Sting which could work but isn't 100% clicking with me

You can't get EB as a Wizard spell with Int to cast. You'll have to invest in Charisma if you want to make Eldritch Blast worthwhile.

However, "Force Wizard" is a possible descriptor for one of the strongest builds in the entire game, often referred to as the Nuclear Wizard. They just don't happen to use Eldritch Blast. They would rather cast Magic Missile, either from slots or from Wands of Magic Missile, with big synergistic bonuses (to a point that they can eventually go all the way up to quadruple digit DPR), while still being good to amazing at pretty much every other role, too.

In fact, since Wands of Magic Missile are so cheap/common and don't take attunement, you could potentially end up with a bandoleer of the things. They also like to use Crown of Stars and Wall of Force.

[mealar]

You can't get EB as a Wizard spell with Int to cast. You'll have to invest in Charisma if you want to make Eldritch Blast worthwhile.

However, "Force Wizard" is a possible descriptor for one of the strongest builds in the entire game, often referred to as the Nuclear Wizard. They just don't happen to use Eldritch Blast. They would rather cast Magic Missile, either from slots or from Wands of Magic Missile, with big synergistic bonuses (to a point that they can eventually go all the way up to quadruple digit DPR), while still being good to amazing at pretty much every other role, too.

In fact, since Wands of Magic Missile are so cheap/common and don't take attunement, you could potentially end up with a bandoleer of the things. They also like to use Crown of Stars and Wall of Force.


Thanks,

I recently found your thread of build ideas and gonna make my way through trying some of them (absolutely to nuke things with MM) this was more of a flavour thing. Using the Graviturgy spells to make a Force/Gravity battlefield control type and a less elemental cantrip to round it out

[Unoriginal]

Have to point out that while Eldritch Blast's reputation is well-deserved, it isn't because of the spell itself, but the various tricks that being a Warlock let you add to it.

Otherwise a few 1d10+nothing ranged spell attacks are nice but not *that* nice.

[mealar]

Have to point out that while Eldritch Blast's reputation is well-deserved, it isn't because of the spell itself, but the various tricks that being a Warlock let you add to it.

Otherwise a few 1d10+nothing ranged spell attacks are nice but not *that* nice.

oh Yeah this is like 90% thematic because it is a "Force" cantrip

[Greywander]

I'm not aware of any RAW options, but if homebrew is an option then you could (a) just give EB as a wizard cantrip (without warlock invocations, it's pretty close to Fire Bolt, but force damage instead of fire), or (b) refluff/rework Sacred Flame (force is more comparable to radiant than to fire). Or, (c) create a new cantrip from scratch. 1d8 scaling damage is probably fine for force damage. If you have a notable rider, maybe drop it down to 1d6. Either use a spell attack (120 foot range) or a strong save (DEX, CON, or WIS; probably DEX, and 60 foot range).

If you want another RAW option, maybe try artificer for INT-based Thorn Whip. It's piercing, not force, but weapon damage probably fits a force theme better than any elemental damage. You can even grab it via Spell Sniper instead of a level dip, doubling the range of Thorn Whip.

[8wGremlin]

In the book "Exploring Eberron" by Keith Baker, there is a new spell


Force Blast Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 180 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Spell Lists: Artificer, sorcerer, wizard
You unleash a bolt of mystical power at a creature or objectwithin range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target.On a hit, the target takes 1d8 force damage.
This spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).

[Warlush]

Don't forget Sword Burst!

[ProsecutorGodot]

You can't officially get Eldritch Blast to key off Int, but the most recent version of the Blood Hunter on DND Beyond sees it redone as an Intelligence class and the subclass Profane Soul has pact magic, choosing spells from the Warlock spell list.

It's kind of a deep dip into a Martial class though and most of the features aren't all that appealing if you're not planning to spend some time in melee.

It's the only "semi (but definitely not) official" method I know of other than the Maverick Artificer subclass added in Keith Baker's new Eberron book.

[MaxWilson]

so this is just a real quick character building question,

i just got my copy of the Explorers guide to Wildemont and am now looking to make my "force wizard"

the only thing i need to sort is a nice thematic cantrip for it, the obvious answer is Eldritch Blast so heres the question. How do i get EB to be a wizard spell that uses Int to cast?

Have you tried bringing pizza?

j/k

Although as a teenager I did get my little brother to do me a lot of favors by offering his D&D PCs mutations and equipment from Gamma World.

[Sigreid]

You could theoretically research it and create it as a new spell.

[Greywander]

Oh, it might also be worth mentioning that warlocks were originally going to be INT casters, but they changed it to CHA because of feedback. Changing a class's spellcasting ability score shouldn't create many problems, except perhaps with some multiclass shenanigans. This does require DM approval, but if all you're trying to do is get INT-based EB, without any of the warlock invocations, and you still need to dip or take a feat to get it, it should be fine.

[animewatcha]

You can't get EB as a Wizard spell with Int to cast. You'll have to invest in Charisma if you want to make Eldritch Blast worthwhile.

However, "Force Wizard" is a possible descriptor for one of the strongest builds in the entire game, often referred to as the Nuclear Wizard. They just don't happen to use Eldritch Blast. They would rather cast Magic Missile, either from slots or from Wands of Magic Missile, with big synergistic bonuses (to a point that they can eventually go all the way up to quadruple digit DPR), while still being good to amazing at pretty much every other role, too.

In fact, since Wands of Magic Missile are so cheap/common and don't take attunement, you could potentially end up with a bandoleer of the things. They also like to use Crown of Stars and Wall of Force.

Got a link to this build?

[Greywander]

Got a link to this build?
IIRC, it's an Evoker wizard using Overchannel on Magic Missile using high level spell slots. I think you also dip fighter for Action Surge, letting you fire off both a 9th and 8th level Empowered Overchanneled Magic Missile on the first round.

I think it relies on the fact that you make one roll for damage, and then apply that to all the individual missiles.

I can't find a link to the specific build, but this is what I remember of it. And actually, I see Overchannel only works for spells 5th level and lower, so maybe I'm either misremembering or the build shouldn't work RAW, since casting a 1st level spell at 9th level counts as casting a 9th level spell. Empowered Evocation should work, though adding your INT mod to the damage of each missile.

[Mikal]

Go blood hunter for a few levels and take the warlock esque subclass for it. The newest version is an int based caster.

And they’re from the same campaign world

You’ll still hit 9th level spells doing that.

[Kane0]

There might be a way to leverage Artificer instead?

Edit: Artificer also provides a cheap excuse to get yourself a pair of Illusionist's bracers too...

[Mikal]

There might be a way to leverage Artificer instead?

Not for eldritch blast.

[8wGremlin]

Not for eldritch blast.

You can with the maverick artificer from the new Book by Keith Baker "Exploring Eberron"

[Mikal]

You can with the maverick artificer from the new Book by Keith Baker "Exploring Eberron"

*buys. Reads.*

Son of a b...
Well if it’s allowed in the game yeah. Yeah that certainly works

[follacchioso]

IIRC, it's an Evoker wizard using Overchannel on Magic Missile using high level spell slots. I think you also dip fighter for Action Surge, letting you fire off both a 9th and 8th level Empowered Overchanneled Magic Missile on the first round.

I think it relies on the fact that you make one roll for damage, and then apply that to all the individual missiles.

I can't find a link to the specific build, but this is what I remember of it. And actually, I see Overchannel only works for spells 5th level and lower, so maybe I'm either misremembering or the build shouldn't work RAW, since casting a 1st level spell at 9th level counts as casting a 9th level spell. Empowered Evocation should work, though adding your INT mod to the damage of each missile.Add one level of Hexblade, to add the proficiency bonus to the damage of each missile against the target of your Hexblade's curse.

[kazaryu]

The quick answer is "you can't."


The longer answer: Eldritch Blast is a powerful spell, all other attack cantrips just aren't as good. EB is one of the reasons why Bards/Sorcerers/Paladin do a Warlock dip of 1 or 2 (there are others, but they aren't as important on this thread). Since wizard have so many other things already, they don't need Eldritch Blast and to be honest they shouldn't have it. If you really want to do this, you would be better off making a Wizard who has Int and Cha and either multiclassing or getting EB from Magic Initiate (triggering off charisma still).

i mena, you're correct that they can't.

however: a 1 lvl dip to warlock just to pick up EB...doesn't happen for sorcerers. at all (actually, thats misleading. it may happen. but its not what an optimizer would do. again, specifically just to pick up EB. an optimizer may dip warlock for other reasons. i.e. 2 lvl 1 slots that come back on a SR is a pretty good one). *2* levels in warlcok so that they can pick up *agonizing blast* yes. but EB by itself, not so much. bards and paladins might do the dip because warlock is a cha caster too so its an easy dip, and neither of them have good ranged options anyway.

a *2* level dip, is done, but not because of EB specifically. its done because of the synergy between EB and AB.

but eldritch blast by itself:
1. doesn't actually do better average damage than firebolt.
2. nor does it outrange firebolt.

the 2 benefits it has are that its damage can be spread out, and it uses force damage.

both benefits are fairly niche.

[LudicSavant]

Got a link to this build?

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

It's build #9 on here.


so maybe I'm either misremembering or

You're misremembering. No Overchannel is required for Magic Missile to do extremely high damage with the Nuclear Wizard (in fact, they don't even need Magic Missile to do very high damage, it's just one of their ways of doing so). You're free to use your Overchannel for a Sculpted Sickening Radiance that your party just stands inside of. Or a Cone of Cold, or a Fire Shield, or a Storm Sphere, or a Bigby's Hand, or whatever else you like.

Indeed, this is part and parcel of the fact that the build is incredibly versatile. High defenses, resource efficient (note I was playing it in a game that occasionally had more than 10 encounters a day, including Deadly+ ones), high AoE and single target damage, and some of the best battlefield control tools around. And of course all the Wizard's usual utility stuff.

[Spartan_MD]

Work with your DM to Re Skin firebolt to force. The “Forcebolt” cantrip would most likely need a component that mildly nerfs the power level as force > fire. Perhaps decrease range, slow damage progression by level or limit to a single target.