Bardic Grappler

[Walk Hard]

I had a thread running talking about an unarmed caster and I have now settled on being a Bard that excels at grappling.

I'm hoping the playground can help provide a few build options on this, we are starting at level 3 and are playing in Eberron, I have plenty of tabletop rpg experience but little dnd experience so the playgrounds guidance is very appreciated!!!

I would like a bit of guidance on what stats to have high and what I can leave as potential dump stats (we are rolling stats 2d6+6) plus ideas on what spells to take etc.

I would prefer the base of the build to be working from level 3 or 4 at the latest. By base of the idea I am meaning the grappling part, as I dont want to have to spend a couple rounds just trying to grapple someone and knock them prone and not being able to do anything else in the mean time.

Apologies if I'm asking too much here, just wanted to put down the max amount of info I could to get an accurate result :)

Thanks in advance!!

[Man_Over_Game]

I had a thread running talking about an unarmed caster and I have now settled on being a Bard that excels at grappling.

I'm hoping the playground can help provide a few build options on this, we are starting at level 3 and are playing in Eberron, I have plenty of tabletop rpg experience but little dnd experience so the playgrounds guidance is very appreciated!!!

I would like a bit of guidance on what stats to have high and what I can leave as potential dump stats (we are rolling stats 2d6+6) plus ideas on what spells to take etc.

I would prefer the base of the build to be working from level 3 or 4 at the latest. By base of the idea I am meaning the grappling part, as I dont want to have to spend a couple rounds just trying to grapple someone and knock them prone and not being able to do anything else in the mean time.

Apologies if I'm asking too much here, just wanted to put down the max amount of info I could to get an accurate result :)

Thanks in advance!!

When 5e was starting, there was a number of grapple builds that became really popular due to leveraging the Prone+Grapple combo, and people really started looking in a bunch of different directions for means of leveraging Grapple.

One example was a Bard, mixed with Sorcerer or Fighter levels. Those classes give you Proficiency with Concentration checks, important because of Enlarge/Reduce.

You can get Enlarge/Reduce either from Lore Bard 6, Sorcerer 3, or Eldritch Knight Fighter 5, take your pick. Personally, I'd take Fighter/EK up to level 6, as you'll want the heavy armor, proficiency, Action Surge, and extra attacks, and then invest the rest into Bard caster levels for more buffs.

[8wGremlin]

I've played a Lore Bard Grappler.
They can be very effective, Expertise on Athletics gives an excellent bonus.
If you can get 'Hex' spell is useful to give disadvantage to your opponents Strength.
You can use cutting words to great effect.
You might also like to look at the spell 'Spirit Guardians' when you get your secrets at level 6.

[Seekergeek]

Another option, if UA is on the table, is three levels of rune knight on a bard chassis. You’d get to embiggen yourself without a concentration check required to maintain. I’d go Lore or swords depending on what you want to do when you’re not wrastlin’.

[MaxWilson]

I had a thread running talking about an unarmed caster and I have now settled on being a Bard that excels at grappling.

I'm hoping the playground can help provide a few build options on this, we are starting at level 3 and are playing in Eberron, I have plenty of tabletop rpg experience but little dnd experience so the playgrounds guidance is very appreciated!!!

I would like a bit of guidance on what stats to have high and what I can leave as potential dump stats (we are rolling stats 2d6+6) plus ideas on what spells to take etc.

I would prefer the base of the build to be working from level 3 or 4 at the latest. By base of the idea I am meaning the grappling part, as I dont want to have to spend a couple rounds just trying to grapple someone and knock them prone and not being able to do anything else in the mean time.

Apologies if I'm asking too much here, just wanted to put down the max amount of info I could to get an accurate result :)

Thanks in advance!!

There's kind of two directions you can go with this, Cutting Words or Extra Attack.

If you go the Extra Attack route, e.g. Hexblade 1 for armor and weapons and Hex and Shield spells then Swords Bard 6 for Extra Attack, you can get Athletics Expertise and be excellent at grapple/proning an enemy in a single turn, and since you have good AC (AC 19 from half-plate plus shield plus Dex 14+, although you can't also Shield without taking the Warcaster feat because you don't have a free hand) and AC 19 is very difficult to hit at disadvantage, that basically takes that enemy out of the fight. Warcaster is a good pick though because not only does it keep you safer, it lets you switch on round #2 to either killing the grappled enemy with Eldritch Blast or casting other spells like Hypnotic Pattern if it looks like they might be needed. Swords Bard also gives you a nice little movement bonus (+10') while you're rushing up to your grapple target. One downside of this approach is that if you have allies shooting ranged weapons from a distance, shoving the enemy prone gives them disadvantage on attacks against whoever you have grappled prone, so in a fight against a small number of enemies you might not want to shove prone, which could mean that you either don't grapple this fight or you grapple and soak up extra damage, or spend your turns Dodging.

If you go the Cutting Words route, you can penalize an enemy's attempts to resist your grapple including the initial attempt, making you even more effective on any given grapple. But you don't have Extra Attack so you get only one attempt per round, and can't grapple/prone in the same turn.

IMO the Cutting Words route is more fun if you focus on letting someone else do the grappling, like a brawny fighter, and just enjoy your ability to shut down even a lucky roll by an enemy by saying, "nope, loser, take another d8 penalty on that roll. And stay down!"

Anyway, which approach sounds like more fun to you? Choose that one.

[Warlush]

Personally I like single class Valor Bard for this. I usually play a Half Orc and take shield master at level 4.
STR 14 +2
CON 15+1
DEX 12
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA14
Take expertise in Athletics, and use Enhance Ability to gain advantage on STR checks.
Grapple someone and shove them prone as a bonus action.
I guess you could use a VHuman and get Resilient CON or Warcaster or whatever at level 1 but I love role playing a Half Orc.

[MrStabby]

One thing I do say when grapple builds come up is to not invest too heavily.

As you slowly climb the levels and invest in more spells and abilities to do your thing, the more situational it becomes.

You are likely to find things like:

Enemies get bigger (like dragons)
Enemies are immune to grappled and restrained conditions (ghosts, fire elementals)
Enemies can teleport away (yugloths)
Enemies just don't care as much - you can push them prone but they can cast spells with saves
You get more enemies in fights and holding 8% of afightin place just isn't as useful to team success as holding 33% in place
You might come accros enemies that just straight up beat your rolls


This isn't to say that grappling is/becomes useless, not at all. It is to say that developing a plan B is as important as plan A. Thankfully as a bard you can be a full caster and have a lot of spells to fall back on - but I would focus on selecting spells that are strong against the enemies you think you will face that you don'twant to grapple, rather than selecting spells to make you better at grappling.

[Walk Hard]

Ok heres the current build.

Cleric 1
Bard 2

Not sure what domain for the cleric yet.
Variant human to take the shield master feat.
Looking at either the outdoorsman or soldier background.
So I'll need a good str & cha, and decent wis would also help.

Any tips on what domain to take and what spells to take?

[Yuroch Kern]

Personally I like single class Valor Bard for this. I usually play a Half Orc and take shield master at level 4.
STR 14 +2
CON 15+1
DEX 12
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA14
Take expertise in Athletics, and use Enhance Ability to gain advantage on STR checks.
Grapple someone and shove them prone as a bonus action.
I guess you could use a VHuman and get Resilient CON or Warcaster or whatever at level 1 but I love role playing a Half Orc.

If you do Variant Human, The massive grapple benefits of Tavern Brawler can make up for lack of attacks too. Adds either Str or Con too.


Ok heres the current build.

Cleric 1
Bard 2

Not sure what domain for the cleric yet.
Variant human to take the shield master feat.
Looking at either the outdoorsman or soldier background.
So I'll need a good str & cha, and decent wis would also help.

Any tips on what domain to take and what spells to take?

Since baseline grapple is only movement control, getting Faerie Fire is pretty important if you want your allies to get Advantage ASAP. Proning them is an option, of course, but it only applies to melee, and actually Disadvantages ranged, INCLUDING spells. I would go Light Domain for that reason, and the Warding Flare is nice to avoid a possible Concentration check. Also, point blank Burning Hands. WOOT.

Healing Word is on both lists, and a grappler is definitely a frontliner, so healing and an action is important. Get it prepped on one of those lists. Heroism is a great Concentration spell, not just for the regenerating temp hp, but even more importantly it renders the recipient immune to fear effects, which can end your grapple early. It's a very underestimated spell, and I recommend. Enhance Ability and then Enlarge/Reduce for Strength Advantage is the next consideration. Because of your ability to drag your quarry around at half your speed, Longstrider is actually pretty useful, allowing for most PCs a 20' grappler move and it doesn't require concentration.

[Walk Hard]

Here is where I ended up.

Im a variant human and we rolled for stats and I had some awesome luck and ended up with
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 18

I took shield master for the feat and then Outlander background and then went bard for first 2 lvls then cleric on 3rd lvl taking the nature domain.
I have the following proficiencies
Athletics
Medicine
Nature
Perception
Performance
Stealth
Survival

My spells are
Spare the dying, light, sacred flame & thorn whip as cleric cantrips plus speak with animals and animal friendship from nature domain

Vicious mockery & message as bard cantrips plus healing word, faerie fire, sleep, long strider & comprehend languages.

Basic idea is that I grew up in the wild and am kind of a cross between Steve Irwin & Rick Flair

[Yuroch Kern]

Here is where I ended up.

Im a variant human and we rolled for stats and I had some awesome luck and ended up with
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 18

I took shield master for the feat and then Outlander background and then went bard for first 2 lvls then cleric on 3rd lvl taking the nature domain.
I have the following proficiencies
Athletics
Medicine
Nature
Perception
Performance
Stealth
Survival

My spells are
Spare the dying, light, sacred flame & thorn whip as cleric cantrips plus speak with animals and animal friendship from nature domain

Vicious mockery & message as bard cantrips plus healing word, faerie fire, sleep, long strider & comprehend languages.

Basic idea is that I grew up in the wild and am kind of a cross between Steve Irwin & Rick Flair

"And here we have an example of the wrong way an elbow bends!" *grappled foe yells in pain* This is SOLID.

[MagneticKitty]

Simic hybrid is good for grappling appendages. I'd go rogue /barb over bard.
This gives you good a.c. and you don't need more than like 12 -14 dex. Prioritize con and str. Use str on a rapier for raging sneak attacks. Expertise and advantage on grappling checks while raging.
If you must go bard, paladin pairs with it nicely

[Yuroch Kern]

Simic hybrid is good for grappling appendages. I'd go rogue /barb over bard.
This gives you good a.c. and you don't need more than like 12 -14 dex. Prioritize con and str. Use str on a rapier for raging sneak attacks. Expertise and advantage on grappling checks while raging.
If you must go bard, paladin pairs with it nicely

Good AC? Well, maybe if your first level is Barbarian. The current build has heavy armor...