ThunderCats, are on the move, thundercats are loose! Feel the magic, hear the roar!

[Ramza00]

So I have sources saying ThunderCats is going to be on Hulu starting tomorrow. (Both the 1985 version and the 2011 remake.)

Which of these two should I start watching during this *gestures*, or should I start with ThunderCats Roar (2020) :smalltongue: ?

[LaZodiac]

The 2011 remake is pretty solid all things considered, and from what I've heard Roar is real good!

You don't need to watch the original. While it may have some good moments like the old He-Man and She-Ra, because the creator of all of these properties wanted to do something good, they're really not needed.

[JadedDM]

The 2011 remake has lots and lots of little references to the original, but I don't think you have to watch the original to 'get' it or anything.

In terms of quality, the 2011 is significantly better. However, it only lasted a single season (26 episodes). The original lasted four seasons (130 episodes), so it is longer. I haven't watched the original in many years. I loved it as a small child, but when I went back to it when I got older, I found it supremely disappointing. Ironically, the 2011 remake felt way more like how I remembered the original, with my rose-colored glasses.

Can't speak to Roar, as I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but it is on my queue. But speaking of, it does remind me of this clip from the Teen Titans Go crossover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTWuj-dg1Es

[Callos_DeTerran]

Real question is, do you like 80's cartoons? If yes, definitely check out the original. Hell, I'd say check out the original anyway personally, but the 2011 one is probably more what you're looking for. But the original does have Lion-O fighting against King Arthur so...go with your heart, haha.

Hell, for that matter check out the original and remake versions of He-Man too (remake He-Man was freakin' awesome) and original She-Ra if you can find it.

[Ramza00]

(refrains from using slang for I do not want to offend people or the mods, I appologize if I am being cryptic.)

So Lion-o in the 2011 version... is he more like "Leonardo" from Ninja turtles as the stern leader? Or is he the opposite extreme, the good hearted, "innocent", muscular protagonist?

-----

I ask for I watch the JadedDM ThunderCats Roar clip, and I just realized Will Friedle plays the 2011 Lion-O aka Terry McGinnis / Batman Beyond (also other things like Boy Meets World.)

[GentlemanVoodoo]

From what I remember of the 2011 he is more of "Leonardo" from Ninja turtles. However I believe he was the third youngest of the group (next to the two kids) having to learn to be the leader.

But in answer to the original question, the 1980's is good as a start but the better story is in 2011 where it took a serious tone. I never bothered to what Roar as it just looked dumb even for a child's cartoon. That on is in the same boat for me as Teen Titan's Go.

[brionl]

I'm not a huge fan of Thundercats in the first place, but I have watched some of the '11 remake and it was pretty good. I tried watching Thundercats Roar, and had to turn it off after about 5 minutes. Not because it's sacrilegious or anything, but because it was just plain bad. That's speaking as someone who liked both the OG Titans (and Young Justice) and Teen Titans Go!

[JadedDM]

He's more of a well-meaning, but somewhat spoiled and untested brat. His entire character arc is learning what it means to be king, as well as becoming less naive/sheltered and listening to the wisdom of others.

In the original 80's version, Lion-O is literally a child with an adult's body (his cryo-pod was damaged during a long range space flight, causing his body to age while his mind stayed the same). He was the same age as the Thunderkittens, mentally, but was physically an adult.

[Ramza00]

He's more of a well-meaning, but somewhat spoiled and untested brat. His entire character arc is learning what it means to be king, as well as becoming less naive/sheltered and listening to the wisdom of others.

What type of Brat are we talking about here? A Bakugou (MHA) type brat or a different style?

[JadedDM]

I have never seen the show you are referencing, so I cannot say for sure.

[Ramza00]

I have never seen the show you are referencing, so I cannot say for sure.

Resists the urge to sing the praises of My Hero Academia, it is good, you should watch it...but I should not threadjack the ThunderCats thread. :smalltongue:

[Callos_DeTerran]

What type of Brat are we talking about here? A Bakugou (MHA) type brat or a different style?

Not a Bakugou type. Lion-o in the 2011 remake is very much a sheltered prince kind of 'brat'. He finds himself in a leadership position without knowing what it really means to be a leader or how to do it, which is compounded by the fact he's coming from a wealthy but insular nation and forced out into a world that is a lot crueler than he knew. In other words he's the 'spoiled brat' archetype only in the sense he's insensitive to the plight of others that he didn't even know had a plight to begin with. Naive, not spoiled. Prideful, but not bratty.

[Psyren]

Roar's "CalArts" (yes I know, not a truly accurate umbrella term for the style for several reasons, but I've yet to find a better one - though "bean-faced comedy" is a close second) aesthetic is very off-putting to me, so it could be hiding the best western animated narrative since ATLA and I'll probably never know.

The 2011 reboot I'd say largely failed due to being before its time / being beholden to the limitations of television (battling over primetime eyeball slots, inability to explore many mature themes to maintain broad appeal, and needing to push X mass of merchandising to even have a prayer of staying alive). Had they tried it today, in the vein of the far more successful SheRa and Voltron reboots, I think the outcome would have been very different.

The 80s version was very formulaic so I don't think it aged well.

[LaZodiac]

Roar's "CalArts" (yes I know, not a truly accurate umbrella term for the style for several reasons, but I've yet to find a better one - though "bean-faced comedy" is a close second) aesthetic is very off-putting to me, so it could be hiding the best western animated narrative since ATLA and I'll probably never know.

The 2011 reboot I'd say largely failed due to being before its time / being beholden to the limitations of television (battling over primetime eyeball slots, inability to explore many mature themes to maintain broad appeal, and needing to push X mass of merchandising to even have a prayer of staying alive). Had they tried it today, in the vein of the far more successful SheRa and Voltron reboots, I think the outcome would have been very different.

The 80s version was very formulaic so I don't think it aged well.

You could always just say "Roar's aesthetic is very off putting to me" and we'd understand what you mean without inciting a debate about art style, as an aside.

Also yeah the 2011 reboot of Thundercats would be DEVOURED by the current day. People would love it.

[Psyren]

You could always just say "Roar's aesthetic is very off putting to me" and we'd understand what you mean without inciting a debate about art style, as an aside.

Maybe, but I wanted to be more specific than that.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Also yeah the 2011 reboot of Thundercats would be DEVOURED by the current day. People would love it.

I don't think it would sadly. 2011 Thundercats came off the success of the He-Man reboot, Batman Beyond, BTAS/Justice League/etc, Avatar the Last Airbender, and Toonami in general but the most important one being the He-Man reboot because they were very similar in style. Audiences were ready for more teen-oriented/mature cartoon series.

Thundercats, sadly, just never caught an audience. Part of that was Cartoon Network (as it was want to do) screwing around with its time slot but a bigger part was it just felt like an atonal mess, much like the original Thundercats was. The difference being was in how they approached that. Thundercats (the original) started with the Thundercats crashing in a space ship, pursued by the people who had destroyed their planet, finding magic but building up a technological fortress and the like. It establishes right out the gate that there's sci-fi trappings, magic (after a fashion), what the Thundercats are fighting for, etc ITs not a really ground breaking series, even for its time, but it does its job competently. The reboot starts off as almost pure fantasy and advertised itself in the same manner, so imagine how jarring it must have been for people lured in by that concept to suddenly be confronted with tanks, laser guns, and a space opera-esque story rather than the more sword and sorcery one that had been advertised. It probably felt like one heck of a deceptive bait and switch. Older fans probably didn't mind, but they were probably put off by the fact that when the time came to expand on the lore...well...the reboot got downright weird. Again, the space opera-esque story that also changed the much beloved Mumm-Ra into something he just wasn't before, but the change wasn't fun and that, at least for me, turned me off from the reboot as well. It was a fun reboot and I do recommend watching it, but it was a very clumsy one and I don't think any amount of mature themes and story telling would have saved it. Hell, to this day, I have no idea what the end game of the reboot was, Lion-o never seemed that hurried about freeing his enslaved kingdom after all.

I do think it would have done better than it originally did if it came out today, but I don't think it would have magically become some super success though like the New-Ra and Voltron bafflingly did. Voltron started good then got...not good, She-Ra just makes me cringe to watch the previews for it but I'm not the intended audience for it either (whatever that would be) so I just have to go by word of mouth.

[factotum]

In terms of quality, the 2011 is significantly better.

It's really missing the voice of Earl Hammond as Mumm-Ra, though--the replacement sounds rather weedy in comparison.

[LaZodiac]

I don't think it would sadly. 2011 Thundercats came off the success of the He-Man reboot, Batman Beyond, BTAS/Justice League/etc, Avatar the Last Airbender, and Toonami in general but the most important one being the He-Man reboot because they were very similar in style. Audiences were ready for more teen-oriented/mature cartoon series.

Thundercats, sadly, just never caught an audience. Part of that was Cartoon Network (as it was want to do) screwing around with its time slot but a bigger part was it just felt like an atonal mess, much like the original Thundercats was. The difference being was in how they approached that. Thundercats (the original) started with the Thundercats crashing in a space ship, pursued by the people who had destroyed their planet, finding magic but building up a technological fortress and the like. It establishes right out the gate that there's sci-fi trappings, magic (after a fashion), what the Thundercats are fighting for, etc ITs not a really ground breaking series, even for its time, but it does its job competently. The reboot starts off as almost pure fantasy and advertised itself in the same manner, so imagine how jarring it must have been for people lured in by that concept to suddenly be confronted with tanks, laser guns, and a space opera-esque story rather than the more sword and sorcery one that had been advertised. It probably felt like one heck of a deceptive bait and switch. Older fans probably didn't mind, but they were probably put off by the fact that when the time came to expand on the lore...well...the reboot got downright weird. Again, the space opera-esque story that also changed the much beloved Mumm-Ra into something he just wasn't before, but the change wasn't fun and that, at least for me, turned me off from the reboot as well. It was a fun reboot and I do recommend watching it, but it was a very clumsy one and I don't think any amount of mature themes and story telling would have saved it. Hell, to this day, I have no idea what the end game of the reboot was, Lion-o never seemed that hurried about freeing his enslaved kingdom after all.

I do think it would have done better than it originally did if it came out today, but I don't think it would have magically become some super success though like the New-Ra and Voltron bafflingly did. Voltron started good then got...not good, She-Ra just makes me cringe to watch the previews for it but I'm not the intended audience for it either (whatever that would be) so I just have to go by word of mouth.

You should give She-Ra a try because it is excellent.

[JadedDM]

It's really missing the voice of Earl Hammond as Mumm-Ra, though--the replacement sounds rather weedy in comparison.

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S07E02/135034.jpg?b64lines=IEkgS0VFUCBURUxMSU5HIFlPVS0tIE hFJ1MKIDgxIFlFQVJTIE9MRCwgQU5EIEhFJ1MKIERFQUQu

[Aotrs Commander]

Cannot speak to te 2011 version, since I only caught one or two episodes. Seemed fine, a modern reboot of the series that was probably quite good; like the 2000s He-Man, I was never bothered enough to track it down on DVD, though.

I do have the 1985 version on DVD, however and... welll.


So, it has apparently been THREE YEARS (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22183712&postcount=237) since I last tried subjecting myself to Thundercats.

And apparently, I didn't even get through more than two episodes in one sitting last time, and that was only episodes 7 and 8.

Lichemaster, this is going to HURT, isn't it? Wish me luck...

...

Episode 10 is called "Mandora the Evil Chaser."

Nggggggggh.



Edit: OHHHHH MY LICHEMASTER.

I forced myself to watch four espidoes. And I do mean "forced," because there was an actual five minute battle to make myself press "play" after the second episode.

I feel like my IQ has halved.

It is SO BAAAAAD.

It's dumb. Plot happens because it does. The voice acting is awful - the only character that sound not horrendously stilted is Panthro.

It's oh my Lichemaster 1980s sexist. Gee look, it's gunny how, outside Cheetarah and the female teddy-bear-robot, that literally every other female in the series is Inexplicably A Human Lady In Skin-Tight Clothing. Or, failing that, a human female face on a plant (oh my Lichemaster that was horrifying, it was genuniely less terrible when it turned into Mumm-Ra).

"Mandora the Evil Chaser" was the worst one by far. (Yes, she's a cop, but "Evil Chaser" is the literal name for it. Apparently, that universe's worst criminal are a functionally a D&D Blighter that was destroyed whole planets (fair), a robot that tries to run over people and is not waterproof and a pick-pocket. *skulldesk*)

*has just defeated two random plague monsters with basically squirt bottle-thing, which melts the Living Ooze and renders this other dude - THE WOLRD KILLING BLIGHTER - helpless when sprayed in the face*

Okay, so, mcguffin spray, well, tht's trite, but whatev-

*Lion-O asks what that chemical was*

"It's an ancient formula, now a closely guarded secret. It used to be called 'soap'."

NNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGHHHHHH!

I kid you not, that me literally biting down on both fists and havving to stop the DVD for several minutes.

[Today Bleakbane Edit: Clarification: it might sound like that was intended to be a joke, but it was not, in fact, delivered as one; nor was it funny enough (or at ALL) to be treated deadly seriously.]

The third one of th trio was ALMOST not terrible, with a plot that actually made sort of sense, something resembling character development for Cheetara, but then was rendered terrible by the final fight and the Thundercats basically doing a "tell, don't show" about how spectacular the battle was.

The LAST episode. So we have Inexplicable Skin-Tight-Outfit Human Lady Villain who is going to be freed from the time prison (so she can share the power of Doomgaze with Mumm-Ra) by a ritual that requires a tear from a robot-teddy-bear, a tuff of cheetah's hair and a unicorn's shoe. Bearing in mind that the unicorns all appear to be wild animals. SO JUST WHY? Who the freak is going around putting shoes on wild unicorns and has been doing so for the presumably thousands of years since this not-Egyptan lady was sealed away?

And then we got to the "just frack you, show" point of where she's paralysied Lion-O and Snarf (I mean, points to Snarf, he was about to go after her and Mumm-Ra unsupported) and then she uses it Cheetarah (who has already dealt with all three mutant goons single-handedly...) and the gaze doesn;t work on her because

please don't say it, please don't say it, please don't say it

she's a woman!

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGHHH!

SERIOUSLY?

I'm like, no, for a kick-off, she's not a female human, she's a female Thundercat, so that makes her (according to google) a she-cheetah at best, but no. on top of the trite, over-used nonsense and casual sexism, we're also doing the humanocentric thing as well.



The real kicker? "Watch four episodes," I says, "and then you've got only to forxce yourself through three next time, and a dozen episdoes in is 20% of the 65, so you're good."

*looks at back of DVD box of season one vol one*

"Hang on, there's like 33 episodes in this volume and there thre more volumes to go, how many a - A HUNDRED AND TWENTY-EIGHT??!?!?

WHAT?

HOW?

HOW does this show have more episodes than Tranaformers?! How does it have two episodes shy of having more episodes than MASK and Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors COMBINED? Nearly twice as many as Centurions?!



I... I... don't know if I can...



Bear in mind that with the exception of the TMNT (which I never cared for), I have all the contemporaries (that were shown in the UK, so no GI Joe) on DVD: Centurions, Transformers, She-Ra and (if not all of, part of He-Man), the first chunk of Real Ghostbisters, MASK, Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors. Because nostalgia.

It was something of an effort to get through the last pair, because they are... Really bad. (Jayce, in particular is CRYING for a modern reboot, out of all of them, because without the inane constraints placed on it, and actual metaplot that concluded, it could be FANTASTIC. But the painfully wasted potential made it a hard sit. (I'd go so far a to say, dicth Jayce altogether (or kill-him off half-way through and really Wham Episode) and make it Flora and the Wheeled Warriors, since her (more-or-oess entirely accidental, one feels) character development made her the best character of the lot (in that she had some and was one), despite her voice actresses'... Limitations, let's say politely? (On the basis it sounded like the genuinely had a child actress doing it and this was before they, y'know took voice-acting more seriously. In her defence, NONE of the VA's (save Panthro's and maybe Mumm-Ra's) were actually any better. (Sure, Lion-O could do the "Ho!" thing well, but he... did not carry that through the rest of his performance. I honestly wonder if they stilted performances were due to direction or technical limitations of the recording, because its so prevalent.)



(Centurions, as a matter of fact, was BETTER than I remembered, because it might just be essentially a big dumb action movie, but it's not a STUPID action movie. It is not marred by "the plot says it does" like MASK, Jayce and Thundercats, but on occasion is really, relly clever and I'll stop there, because I've waxed lyrical on Centurions often enough.)



So after subjecting myself to that I then went and found Thundercats Roar and watched rthe first couple of episodes.

It is, frankly, better.

Yes, REALLY.

It is not stupider, despite what you might think watching the first minute or so or that trailer - almost unbelivebaly - the voice-acting is better, the action sequences, despite the animation style not being my favourite - are actually genuinely good (Snarf is the best he's ever been) and beneath the sillieness (especially form Lion-O), it's actually fairly sharp. I place it somewhere between TTG and MLP, actually (bear in mind I LIKE TTG). It KNOWS is stupid and plays that up, and as a result is genuinely funny. Unlike, TTG where the action is mostly used as pretext for a joke, when they get to Doing the Fighting, the TC are actually shown as competant and genuinely made to look cool. (And most damningly, I saw the character in the characters in the first scenes, unlike the original. Hell, I'm slowly picking through the series and they've already had more character-centric episodes than the original.)

Notably - TCR did Mandora the Evil Chaser to, and basically followed the same plot - in half the time, better and with more character development for Mandora.

TCR, then, it clearly written by people that made the effort to watch the original (the poor fools) - there's enough in they they clearly did - and went "okay, this is frack-awful, let's do better."



So, TCR gets a Bleakbane Recommendation.

Original TC does NOT, unless you a) like hurting yourself or b) you really, really, really like Thundercats to the point of obession and can turn your brain off. Just watch the into on Youtube, listen to the music (that was by FAR and away the very best things about Thundercats 1980s - TCR wisely re-uses the score and it works there delightfully, actually) and call it a day.

[Spore]

Roar's "CalArts" (yes I know, not a truly accurate umbrella term for the style for several reasons, but I've yet to find a better one - though "bean-faced comedy" is a close second) aesthetic is very off-putting to me, so it could be hiding the best western animated narrative since ATLA and I'll probably never know.

I understand and support that sentiment. Thundercats is an epic adventure, not a comedy parody of said story type. Thus I feel the stubby weird creatures do not fit the original story I expect.

That being said, the original had a very weird choice of hero costuming for me. Tight spandex costumes are a superhero staple, but Thundercats pushes it too far into the homo erotic corner for me (and I am gay). I want to watch a great battle against evil, with anthropomorphic cat heroes against quasi-Egyptian necromancers, and not have my roommate come into the room, and see half a dozen dudes in fetish gear shouting from my TV screen.

There is a time and place for that, and cartoons are not it.

e: same goes for over sexualized female costumes. Be it Cheetara, Batman's Poison Ivy or the usual chainmail bikini stuff.

[factotum]

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S07E02/135034.jpg?b64lines=IEkgS0VFUCBURUxMSU5HIFlPVS0tIE hFJ1MKIDgxIFlFQVJTIE9MRCwgQU5EIEhFJ1MKIERFQUQu

Um, yes, I *am* fully aware of why they couldn't use a man who died in 2002 in a TV series made in 2011, it just would have been nice if they'd got someone who sounded even remotely like him.

[Devonix]

Roar is good. REALLY GOOD. It takes a couple of episodes to get it's footing, but after that it's hillarious and has some wonderful songs. It reminds me a lot of The Marvelous Missadventures of Flapjack. We need more shows like it.


https://youtu.be/auDkQChXmTE

[Psyren]

Roar is good. REALLY GOOD. It takes a couple of episodes to get it's footing, but after that it's hillarious and has some wonderful songs. It reminds me a lot of The Marvelous Missadventures of Flapjack. We need more shows like it.

*snip*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sIYe74sczE


I understand and support that sentiment. Thundercats is an epic adventure, not a comedy parody of said story type. Thus I feel the stubby weird creatures do not fit the original story I expect.

That being said, the original had a very weird choice of hero costuming for me. Tight spandex costumes are a superhero staple, but Thundercats pushes it too far into the homo erotic corner for me (and I am gay). I want to watch a great battle against evil, with anthropomorphic cat heroes against quasi-Egyptian necromancers, and not have my roommate come into the room, and see half a dozen dudes in fetish gear shouting from my TV screen.

There is a time and place for that, and cartoons are not it.

e: same goes for over sexualized female costumes. Be it Cheetara, Batman's Poison Ivy or the usual chainmail bikini stuff.

Netflix She-Ra showed how you can update character designs to stay true to what made the original appealing, while still evolving it in a new direction for a modern audience. Nobody is sexualized - well, there's some tension (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1dGqFCm08), but that comes from the characters themselves rather than their outfits - and unlike the 80s variant which was based on near uniform toy-molds, there is a wide variety of body types and silhouettes.

[Callos_DeTerran]

You should give She-Ra a try because it is excellent.

I have tried, it just doesn't sit right with me. And listening to fans of the old She-Ra go into the new one and just sound so heartbroken and angry over it is very disheartening (except for Catra, apparently?) or the stupidity and malice of the stupider side of the fandom. And I know, I shouldn't let dumb fandoms influence my opinion on a show, but the examples I've heard just really got to me. Either way, I really don't think I could give it a fair shake now if it did appeal to me and make me want to watch it, and new She-Ra fails to make me want to watch it in the first place.

If other folks enjoy it, awesome. Both series still exist after all, its not ONLY ONE MAY STAND :smallsmile: I've got the old She-Ra and the upcoming He-man series/mini-series to look forward to.


I understand and support that sentiment. Thundercats is an epic adventure, not a comedy parody of said story type. Thus I feel the stubby weird creatures do not fit the original story I expect.

That being said, the original had a very weird choice of hero costuming for me. Tight spandex costumes are a superhero staple, but Thundercats pushes it too far into the homo erotic corner for me (and I am gay). I want to watch a great battle against evil, with anthropomorphic cat heroes against quasi-Egyptian necromancers, and not have my roommate come into the room, and see half a dozen dudes in fetish gear shouting from my TV screen.

There is a time and place for that, and cartoons are not it.

e: same goes for over sexualized female costumes. Be it Cheetara, Batman's Poison Ivy or the usual chainmail bikini stuff.


Uh...That's because Thundercats wasn't pulling from superhero staples, it was flat out pulling from pulp/barbarian fantasy/sword and sorcery, much like the popular He-Man. Its really not meant to be fetish gear (though there is something hilarious about the fact the women wore more clothes than all the men aside from Tygra).

[LaZodiac]

I have tried, it just doesn't sit right with me. And listening to fans of the old She-Ra go into the new one and just sound so heartbroken and angry over it is very disheartening (except for Catra, apparently?) or the stupidity and malice of the stupider side of the fandom. And I know, I shouldn't let dumb fandoms influence my opinion on a show, but the examples I've heard just really got to me. Either way, I really don't think I could give it a fair shake now if it did appeal to me and make me want to watch it, and new She-Ra fails to make me want to watch it in the first place.

If other folks enjoy it, awesome. Both series still exist after all, its not ONLY ONE MAY STAND :smallsmile: I've got the old She-Ra and the upcoming He-man series/mini-series to look forward toI.


I'm legitimately curious what fans of the old She-Ra have said is bad about this show, because I've literally only seen people upset that the titular character wears bike shorts.

[Devonix]

It's a comedy, but it's a good comedy with some wonderful animation

[oxybe]

The problem with Roar is that it's neither a good spiritual or lighthearted successor to the original or the reboot, and it's not a particularly self parody.

I'm not gonna claim the original series was a masterclass piece of animation or storytelling, but it has it's own nostalgic charm if you grew up with it.

I don't see that in Roar.

Roar feels like it was made by people who heard of the Thundercats by a third party. not fans or people who did anything beyond a necessary superficial google search.

I don't feel like it's made by passionate people who want to build on years of lore and material.

We have blueprints on how to remake and lightheart up a show.

Ducktales 2017 is a fantastic reboot. it borrows elements not just from the original cartoon, but also elements from the old Carl Barks Scrooge comics. it modernizes the characters without going too far (exception being Webby, who they actually gave a personality to that is more then "is girl"). heck it even draws from other Disney Afternoon properties, like references to Tailspin's Cape Suzette, the Rescue Rangers cameo and how they integrated Darkwing Duck (a fantastic, FANTASTIC episode when they introduced him)

Batman: Brave and the Bold, leans into a older age and lighthearted take on the DC mythos. yeah, Aquaman is bombastic and it didn't shy to make a Neil Patrick Harris focused musical episode around the Music Meister villain... but that's just it: it doesn't just bring up the same old villains all the time because it has to be "serious art animation" and it also teams up Batman with sometimes lesser known heroes to play off of. because it's more lighthearted it can dive into the goofier stuff over the years but still stay true to core of the characters.

As far as parody... it's nothing special. it's not a smart deconstruction of the 80's SatAM action show/monster of the week to sell a toy I grew up with. it doesn't really do anything special with the property.

It's just another a wacky comedy for kids (with maybe an adult joke that got past the censors) dressed up in Thundercats garb.

yeah the original show was a product of it's time and place. the show came out the year I was born... 35 years ago! It was made to push a toyline and story came second. but it still resonated with some people. if you're gonna reboot or remake a show, at least show those fans some respect.

Animation wise... I don't care for the style but it is well animated. Like I'm not an animator so I can't talk about the specific techniques or whatever, but what I saw animates nicely, even if I don't care for the style they went with.

Except the berbils.

the new ones design is much better, if only because the old 80's was nightmare fuel if you looked at one head on. It looks like what you might get if you degloved the face of a Teddy Ruxpin doll. the 2011 version is equally acceptable to the roar ones.

80s berbils can't get Oxybe, the 80s are over...

...

I could take a Teddy Ruxpin cartoon reboot a la ducktales though.

Come dream with me toniiiiiiiight~

[Devonix]

The problem with Roar is that it's neither a good spiritual or lighthearted successor to the original or the reboot, and it's not a particularly self parody.

I'm not gonna claim the original series was a masterclass piece of animation or storytelling, but it has it's own nostalgic charm if you grew up with it.

I don't see that in Roar.

Roar feels like it was made by people who heard of the Thundercats by a third party. not fans or people who did anything beyond a necessary superficial google search.

I don't feel like it's made by passionate people who want to build on years of lore and material.

We have blueprints on how to remake and lightheart up a show.

Ducktales 2017 is a fantastic reboot. it borrows elements not just from the original cartoon, but also elements from the old Carl Barks Scrooge comics. it modernizes the characters without going too far (exception being Webby, who they actually gave a personality to that is more then "is girl"). heck it even draws from other Disney Afternoon properties, like references to Tailspin's Cape Suzette, the Rescue Rangers cameo and how they integrated Darkwing Duck (a fantastic, FANTASTIC episode when they introduced him)

Batman: Brave and the Bold, leans into a older age and lighthearted take on the DC mythos. yeah, Aquaman is bombastic and it didn't shy to make a Neil Patrick Harris focused musical episode around the Music Meister villain... but that's just it: it doesn't just bring up the same old villains all the time because it has to be "serious art animation" and it also teams up Batman with sometimes lesser known heroes to play off of. because it's more lighthearted it can dive into the goofier stuff over the years but still stay true to core of the characters.

As far as parody... it's nothing special. it's not a smart deconstruction of the 80's SatAM action show/monster of the week to sell a toy I grew up with. it doesn't really do anything special with the property.

It's just another a wacky comedy for kids (with maybe an adult joke that got past the censors) dressed up in Thundercats garb.

yeah the original show was a product of it's time and place. the show came out the year I was born... 35 years ago! It was made to push a toyline and story came second. but it still resonated with some people. if you're gonna reboot or remake a show, at least show those fans some respect.

Animation wise... I don't care for the style but it is well animated. Like I'm not an animator so I can't talk about the specific techniques or whatever, but what I saw animates nicely, even if I don't care for the style they went with.

Except the berbils.

the new ones design is much better, if only because the old 80's was nightmare fuel if you looked at one head on. It looks like what you might get if you degloved the face of a Teddy Ruxpin doll. the 2011 version is equally acceptable to the roar ones.

80s berbils can't get Oxybe, the 80s are over...

...

I could take a Teddy Ruxpin cartoon reboot a la ducktales though.

Come dream with me toniiiiiiiight~

Sorry, but as a hardcore oldschool Thundercats fan. Roar very much feels like it was made by people who watched and grew up loving the original series. Yes it's a parody but it's a loving parody. Every frame every joke, every song is packed full of nostalgia and deep pull easter eggs that only make sense if you're someone who really delved into the original series.

No, it's not a serious take on the source material. Thundercats Roar is basically what you get when you have a bunch of friends sitting around together making fun of the stuff they like.

Also Thundercats was one of the few series at the time that was not made to push a toyline. They had a toyline but it was always secondary to the actual show. Rankin and Bass worked hard on it, bringing in child behavioural experts to try and craft a series that could teach kids values, and have meaning behind everything.

It was also one of the most expensive animated series being made at the time. They put time effort and care into the old show.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also Thundercats was one of the few series at the time that was not made to push a toyline. They had a toyline but it was always secondary to the actual show. Rankin and Bass worked hard on it, bringing in child behavioural experts to try and craft a series that could teach kids values, and have meaning behind everything.

It was also one of the most expensive animated series being made at the time. They put time effort and care into the old show.

Does it, like, dramatically improves after the first dozen episodes or something, then? That's not a faceious question, but a genuine one, since I have to try and get the fortitude to make myself watch over a hundred more episodes, preferrably before the turn of the millenium.

Because watching it the other week, none of that came across at all. Those first dozen episodes rank it among the worst of the 1980s line-up, alongside MASK and Jayce. Plot-wise, it really doesn't seem like they spent much time at all on making it make sense. Stuff happens Because The Plot Says so. I mean, I wasn't exaggerating that after watching Mandora the Evil Chaser episode, I genuinely had to wrestle with myself to make myself press play to watch the next episode, it was that bad.



(My concern is that I noticed that MASK and Jayce tended to get worse after the first dozen or so episodes when they fell into a rut (started to get lazy, in MASK's case) - to the point that probably the best epsidoe of MASK was one clearly writing by someone who had been handed The Formula, but made some effort to work around it. Centurions and Transformers never seemed to do that. TF could be pretty bad (but it improved after the first bit), but it was generally a different sort of bad. Centurions... Never had a duff episode, even the worst episode was only kind of moribund.

I noticed that season two has a lot of multi-part episodes. That might have been encouraging, but I thought that about the five-parter Jayce did that was an incoherent mess that barely had anything to do with itself from part to part, so once burned twice shy.)



I mean, my initial response to that information was to question whether they spent too much time trying to be educational and not on, y'know, telling a coherent narrative.

(That DOES probably explain why it (and possible to a degree She-Ra and He-Man) got so many more episodes than their contemporaries, though, so points to Rankin Bass for not being beholden to the toys, I guess...?.)

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'm legitimately curious what fans of the old She-Ra have said is bad about this show, because I've literally only seen people upset that the titular character wears bike shorts.

Keep in mind a small selection size, but generally that its just not She-ra. The one critique the fans of the old She-Ra kept re-iterating about it was the constant feeling like the show maker for She-ra had an idea for a show but Netflix wouldn't okay it until it was tied to a nostalgic property, so they copy-pasted She-Ra over-top of it. Additional complaints included adding in the LGBTQ+ (I know I got the acronym wrong, apologies) elements were un-neccesary and was a change for the sake of change which doesn't personally doesn't bother me, I liked Steven Universe (until it got worse). Not liking the designs which, yeah, that I see. All the designs I've seen were pretty dull, albeit with more variety, but that's mostly a matter of personal taste. I don't remember much of the complaints cause it was a while back but a big part of it was 'they made changes just for the sake of changes, now it doesn't resemble the old show show as much' which is surprisingly beloved. So you get that dislike for the show just not being to their taste multiplied by the fact its 'screwing up' one of their favorite shows from their childhood. That's mostly the extent of it in regards to the show itself, cause even then they admit some things were better like Cattra and Bo being openly gay (is he? I have no idea) as opposed to just in the closet but not how he turned.

A bigger thing is how the show runners and fans of the new series (who haven't seen the old one) have treated fans of the old one. That has less to do with the merits of the individual shows though and much more to do with new fandoms can get crazy toxic, no matter the subject matter. Like...threatening, doxxing, reporting, and calling a six year old girl racist because she posted her version of the old show's Mermasta (and was clearly labelled as being the old show's Mermasta) toxic.

Like I said, I haven't gone into it too much because Netflix She-Ra just hasn't made me want to watch it and despite a desire to I don't have a way to watch the old She-Ra, so I haven't really had cause to delve deep into the divide.

[Lord Raziere]

I mean, I've only seen the New She-Ra and and when did old She-Ra come out? 1985? thats......35 years ago. with stilted animation. values that aren't mine. anyone who remembers that old show with fondness are probably a completely different generation from me. I'm beginning to suspect a lot of stuff like this is simply generational. though that doesn't make generations all the same in value. I'd rather have the new She-Ra story than whatever old episodic goofiness they're fond of. *shrug* oh well. I personally agree with Zodi that new She-Ra is great if you ever decide to see it, I recommend not looking at it expecting the 80's to magically return.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I mean, I've only seen the New She-Ra and and when did old She-Ra come out? 1985? thats......35 years ago. with stilted animation. values that aren't mine. anyone who remembers that old show with fondness are probably a completely different generation from me. I'm beginning to suspect a lot of stuff like this is simply generational. though that doesn't make generations all the same in value. I'd rather have the new She-Ra story than whatever old episodic goofiness they're fond of. *shrug* oh well. I personally agree with Zodi that new She-Ra is great if you ever decide to see it, I recommend not looking at it expecting the 80's to magically return.

I imagine its a mixed bag of people who like it, considering its older than I am and still looks like a good watch and I imagine fans of the old She-Ra are going to watch it with their kids. Same as you, Zodi, Psyren, etc. would probably watch the new She-Ra with your own kids if you had them relatively soon.

And I did look at it not expecting the 80's to magically return, I just didn't see anything for me either.

[WinterKnight404]

I don't think I really have anything new to add that hasn't already been said. I fondly remember the original cartoon and I did not watch the re-boot or Roar but, after seeing a few youtube clips of Roar, I must say it reminds me of The Power Puff girls and that's not a good thing.

[Psyren]

I mean, apparently we're getting a gritty live-action reboot of the Powerpuff Girls too, so... :smallsigh:

[Callos_DeTerran]

I mean, apparently we're getting a gritty live-action reboot of the Powerpuff Girls too, so... :smallsigh:

Wait, are you serious? Is this really a thing?

[Lord Raziere]

I mean, apparently we're getting a gritty live-action reboot of the Powerpuff Girls too, so... :smallsigh:

The problem with many reboots is that, "gritty powerpuff girls" by itself can be a good idea- as long as you file off the serial number and start making your own thing with it. its not that hard to do: change a few names maybe modify a few things to make more sense in a darker grounded universe and no one would bat an eye.

but apparently people making things are so creatively bankrupt they can't even be bothered to do that much. it makes me wonder if something as simple a concept as making my own DBZ-like called "Dracobell Sea" and just put in characters I've roleplayed over the years as protagonists and antagonists would count as some feat of creative genius.

[JadedDM]

Wait, are you serious? Is this really a thing?

I don't know about gritty, since it is a CW show, but yes, it will be live action and will feature the girls as young adults who are disillusioned with superheroics.

Read more here (https://deadline.com/2020/08/the-powerpuff-girls-live-action-series-diablo-cody-heather-regnier-greg-berlanti-the-cw-1203021883/).

[Psyren]

I don't know about gritty, since it is a CW show, but yes, it will be live action and will feature the girls as young adults who are disillusioned with superheroics.


That is definitely a grittier premise than the original, so I stand by the label.


The problem with many reboots is that, "gritty powerpuff girls" by itself can be a good idea- as long as you file off the serial number and start making your own thing with it. its not that hard to do: change a few names maybe modify a few things to make more sense in a darker grounded universe and no one would bat an eye.

but apparently people making things are so creatively bankrupt they can't even be bothered to do that much. it makes me wonder if something as simple a concept as making my own DBZ-like called "Dracobell Sea" and just put in characters I've roleplayed over the years as protagonists and antagonists would count as some feat of creative genius.

Creativity isn't the issue so much as commercial viability. That more than anything else is why networks wallow in brand recognition and repurposed IP that already has an installed base.

I actually agree with the person above (to an extent) who said She-Ra could have been a unique property rather than using the IP of the original. Where I disagree is that they did a bad thing by using the existing IP to tell a new story, because they successfully captured both the themes and characterization of the original while also modernizing them.

[Lord Raziere]

Creativity isn't the issue so much as commercial viability. That more than anything else is why networks wallow in brand recognition and repurposed IP that already has an installed base.

I actually agree with the person above (to an extent) who said She-Ra could have been a unique property rather than using the IP of the original. Where I disagree is that they did a bad thing by using the existing IP to tell a new story, because they successfully captured both the themes and characterization of the original while also modernizing them.

I mean I like that show to, I fully agree with you on both points.

its still disappointing though. and I think things can be done better than constantly dredging up things from the 80's and 90's to be resurrected for better or worse.

[JadedDM]

That is definitely a grittier premise than the original, so I stand by the label.

Not necessarily. I remember a specific episode of the old cartoon where the girls were tired of constantly saving the townspeople, so lazily sat in a cloud while a monster rampaged, giving the townsfolk hints on how to solve the crisis themselves.

So it all depends on how they go about it. But it certainly could be gritty, or grittier.

[Psyren]

Not necessarily. I remember a specific episode of the old cartoon where the girls were tired of constantly saving the townspeople, so lazily sat in a cloud while a monster rampaged, giving the townsfolk hints on how to solve the crisis themselves.

So it all depends on how they go about it. But it certainly could be gritty, or grittier.

Yeah, a one-off episode that ended with them getting right back into their typical heroic groove. Not being baseline jaded from the start as a core aspect of their characters. Once again, I stand by the label.

[Psyren]

Keep in mind a small selection size, but generally that its just not She-ra. The one critique the fans of the old She-Ra kept re-iterating about it was the constant feeling like the show maker for She-ra had an idea for a show but Netflix wouldn't okay it until it was tied to a nostalgic property, so they copy-pasted She-Ra over-top of it. Additional complaints included adding in the LGBTQ+ (I know I got the acronym wrong, apologies) elements were un-neccesary and was a change for the sake of change which doesn't personally doesn't bother me, I liked Steven Universe (until it got worse). Not liking the designs which, yeah, that I see. All the designs I've seen were pretty dull, albeit with more variety, but that's mostly a matter of personal taste. I don't remember much of the complaints cause it was a while back but a big part of it was 'they made changes just for the sake of changes, now it doesn't resemble the old show show as much' which is surprisingly beloved. So you get that dislike for the show just not being to their taste multiplied by the fact its 'screwing up' one of their favorite shows from their childhood. That's mostly the extent of it in regards to the show itself, cause even then they admit some things were better like Cattra and Bo being openly gay (is he? I have no idea) as opposed to just in the closet but not how he turned.

A bigger thing is how the show runners and fans of the new series (who haven't seen the old one) have treated fans of the old one. That has less to do with the merits of the individual shows though and much more to do with new fandoms can get crazy toxic, no matter the subject matter. Like...threatening, doxxing, reporting, and calling a six year old girl racist because she posted her version of the old show's Mermasta (and was clearly labelled as being the old show's Mermasta) toxic.

Like I said, I haven't gone into it too much because Netflix She-Ra just hasn't made me want to watch it and despite a desire to I don't have a way to watch the old She-Ra, so I haven't really had cause to delve deep into the divide.

Bo isn't gay, though he miiiiight be bi.

In any event - I take everything back, 80s She-Ra is lit! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnD01qkQJOk)