Advice needed +10 dagger for Master Thrower

[KoDT69]

I need suggestions for a +10 total dagger for a Master Thrower that would cover as many possibilities of getting the most types of job done. I'm assuming the Returning Property should be a given ;) pretty much anything goes. The PC will get basically a few copies of this same dagger. Keeping it to the 200k market value to be non-epic is about the only concern, but if there are extra properties with GP cost rather than increasing the enhancement bonus for pricing, and if you think it reasonable to not break into epic it should be fine. Thanks!

[Edea]

Question: are you able to take Bloodstorm Blade (Tome of Battle) along with Master Thrower? If you are, that opens up a lot of options that can influence what enchantments to put on this thing.

I guess also "what sources are allowed", etc..

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Actually, go look in the MIC for the weapon augment crystals. Use the stacking rules (also therein) to put as many weapon crystal effects on your weapon crystal as possible. Flaming + frost + ghost touch + returning + etc for very cheap.

And if the dagger were made from a +1 sizing/morphing raptor arrow (Bane: All + Returning + Unbreakable), even better, especially since most weapon effects would cost 1/50 their normal price. Or you could have 50 of them for the same cost.

Consider metalline in your slew of weapon enhancements, as having adamantine, cold iron, or silver on command is quite useful.

The base weapon should be made from something that isn't one of the common metalline effects, such as aurorum or riverine. The first can be put back together if it's broken, and the second can't be broken outside of a rod of cancellation or disintegrate effect, whereas most weapons are sunderable. Alternatively, shapesand (Sandstorm), if you have a really good Wis score. Just make sure each individual arrow (if applicable) is made from a different color of sand so you can differentiate each one when you have to put them together again.

Also, consider the tooth of Leraje, from Tome of Magic. A 1/day, 20 hour greater magic weapon effect would save a ton of money, as well. Note that greater magic weapon affects up to 50 projectiles, so the above morphing raptor arrows would all count for one casting.

[KoDT69]

I'm not really interested in the Bloodstorm Blade or ToB in general. Just looking at a basic Rogue type character. Also no need to do the cheapness trick with the morphing arrows lol. Just trying to figure out what the best combo of properties will make the dude at least able to contribute against as many enemy types as possible. The weapon crystals are an option. Something completely off the wall made with custom crafting is also an option.

[Anthrowhale]

For ranged attacks from a rogue-like character, 'seeking' is particularly good. Combine with a ring of blinking to trigger sneak attack constantly and then notice that seeking removes the miss drawback of blinking. Between seeking removing dex-based AC bonuses and master thrower making everything a touch attack, you'll be able to hit almost everything with ease. Consider adding on Power Throw to crank up the damage even further.

[Arael666]

And if the dagger were made from a +1 sizing/morphing raptor arrow (Bane: All + Returning + Unbreakable), even better, especially since most weapon effects would cost 1/50 their normal price. Or you could have 50 of them for the same cost.

I see this line every single time someone mentions weapon costs. DO you actually believe a GM would actually allow that? Have you ever even played in a table where this was allowed?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I see this line every single time someone mentions weapon costs. DO you actually believe a GM would actually allow that? Have you ever even played in a table where this was allowed?I've had multiple DMs who were all about "RAW is king." Pretty much all of them, now that I think about it. So, yeah, yeah that would totally fly at the (multiple, unrelated) tables I played at.

[Wildstag]

I can't emphasize this enough, but the +2 effect "Metalline", which allows you to bypass metallic damage reduction with one blade. It can become a silvered weapon, a cold iron weapon, an adamantine weapon, or just plain steel weapon. The enhancement does it all.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What if you added the manyfang enhancement (Serpent Kingdoms) to a crescent knife (Dragon #275). Would you deal x4 damage twice? You do make two separate attack rolls each time you attack with it, so you're not just multiplying damage as you normally would. You'd have to add the throwing ability to it, though.


Consider the Ancestral Relic feat (BoED) to get a scaling weapon in exchange for a feat. Don't use your WBL to fuel it; instead, sacrifice evil altars and desecrated buildings and magic traps and active spell effects and stuff. Those things are expensive. If you're a warforged, you can even do it at night while everyone else is asleep, so as not to cut into your adventuring time....Huh. I wonder what would happen if you tried to sacrifice a pit trap to your daggers. Would the pit fill itself in?

[JyP]

As you search for +10 magic weapon, what about a intelligent legacy dagger like The Shiv (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qc1mn43n-uyForSCq8YOJ2RVB6j9x0Y9mj6MtQznrmY/edit) ?

[gorfnab]

The only problem with a Returning (or Teleporting) weapon is that it is only usable once per round.


This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn).

This is not conducive to a Master Thrower builds that are normally designed to send as many blades down range as possible. There are some ways around that though. Below is a quote from a handbook all about daggers called A Subtle Knife: Options for 3.5 Players and DMs using the Dagger (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?596810-The-Subtle-Knife-Options-for-Players-and-DMs-using-the-Dagger)



a. Throwing
Assuming your DM agrees that the dagger is a ranged weapon, there’s a lot of interesting stuff you can pull off in this area. But even then, there are PrCs that are primed for throwing and throwing daggers in particular. With throwing, you either need a big supply of daggers to get in the air, or a very reliable way of getting them back and in your hands to throw again. For throwing builds you need to look into ways to either carry enough daggers (not so good option) or magically generate an infinite supply of daggers (better option). There are three items that can work well for dagger throwing builds with some minor DM tweaking. The first is the Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC). The main change being changing the javelins to daggers (with maybe a corresponding change in damage from d6 to d4). The second item is the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC). It can produce daggers, but only 1 per round because of its Swift action activation. The change here would be changing Swift action to Free action. The third item is the Quiver of Anariel, posted in the spoiler below. The change here would be "quiver" to "bandoleer" and "arrow(s)" to "dagger(s)".

Quiver of Anariel

Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.

Thankfully someone saved this article here (https://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.


So, my advice would be to use one of the infinite dagger magic items mentioned in the above quote to cover your ranged needs and then make the +10 daggers tricked out for melee using some of the fun stuff mentioned in the A Subtle Knife handbook.

[KoDT69]

Ok so without resorting to any cheap tricks or ToB, I know I need to make this a much more pointed request. I have already said the cost of multiple blades is not an issue. WBL is a bit ahead of the curve, but the Epic weapons costing 10x is a no go for other reasons.

I'm going to propose the following:
+1 enhancement
+1 morphing
+1 spell storing
+1 returning
+2 wounding
+2 disruption
~57k go in cost difference for making the base weapon like a mace of smiting then modifying to the final product

Spell Storing to hold a few situational debuff spells.
Morphing for overcoming DR types or for activating Disruption since it's blunt only.
Wounding to wear down living opponents that may otherwise take too much damage to bring down.
Disruption for undeads.
Smiting property for dealing with constructs.

Does this combo seem to be useful in the highest number of situations?

Weapon crystals for extra damage can be added after the fact. The game is pretty close to core and I the others don't have near the knowledge or experience I do so I'm trying to keep it simpler for their enjoyment. If I run the character broke for a mediocre return but capable of contributing in all situations, I'm good with that.