Sizing Shapesand Weapon?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think I found a new shapesand exploit.

You're typically limited in the volume of shapesand you can affect, with larger volumes becoming more and more difficult to manipulate. But what happens if you turn shapesand into a masterwork weapon and enhance it as a +1 sizing weapon? If you start with a Tiny-sized shapesand dagger and resize it into a Colossal-sized one, how does that affect the shapesand itself? Can you change the weapon's shapesand into a Tiny-sized house with a low Wis check, then resize it into a Gargantuan or Colossal one?

Fashioning shapesand arrows, of course, would allow you to enhance 50 times as many individual sizing weapons, so you could have up to 50 Gargantuan or Colossal buildings or whatever for the same cost.

Are there any other strange things you can do with this or other weapon enhancements on shapesand weaponry?

[Rebel7284]

The new object is made of sand, but serves as a normal item of the same sort.

normal ≠masterwork

[MaxiDuRaritry]

normal ≠masterworkI suppose, although not all magic items are masterwork -- take handy haversacks, for instance; they're all ratty and tatty by default, even new ones, and I've seen other magic items that are described as "poorly made." There are ways to turn non-masterwork things into magic items, even weapons. A permanent magic weapon spell would give it a permanent enhancement bonus (and I can think of a few ways to accomplish this within the rules, such as being in the hands of someone with an acorn of far travel from an oak tree on a timeless-with-regards-to-magic plane, or better yet, having such an acorn embedded in the weapon itself), and all you need to add additional weapon abilities is an enhancement bonus.

That, and there are items that are always masterwork, so that would be the "normal" state for them. A katana, for instance, is always masterwork, so if you produced a "normal" katana using shapesand, it would be masterwork by default.

[edit] You could also temporarily dispel a regular magic weapon and PAO it into shapesand, if you wanted to. When the dispel wears off, it's already shapesand, and magic shapesand, at that.

[flappeercraft]

Another possible alternative would be turning the shapesand into some weapon and any of the weapon augmentation line of infusions, which while temporary, would do the trick.

[unseenmage]

Similarly, shrink item on a jug if shapesand then manipulate the smaller volume, then release the shrink item.

[shaikujin]

I don't know why, but a lot of my ideas seem to coinicide with yours.

Iirc, the Sandshaper PRC or Clerics with the Sand domain can shape masterwork items with sand, including shapesand. So these abilities can make shapesand items as masterwork. That's 1 hurdle kinda solved.

The problem is, how far does "serve as a normal item of the same sort" go.

Can it be shaped into a Touchstone blade and be used as planar touchstones?

Can it be shaped into Clockwork armor?

What about items with no listed weight like diamonds and other gems?

Strongholdbuilder has walls that are made out of force. Can we make shapesand into walls of force? These have no listed weight either.

Once the walls of force have been made, can we use fabricate on these walls to produce weapons made from force?

These weapons with a weight of 0, can we then inlay them with orichalcum without worrying about the weight multiplication?

What about changing the shapesand into the blood of a Merchurion? Then dipping a weapon into this blood to give alchemical silver properties?

If playing 3.PF, one of the Fighter archtypes in pathfinder treats armor like weapons.

[Segev]

If you’re willing to combine 3.5 and PF1, I would like to submit for consideration the Soulknife archetype that merges their psicrystal with a real weapon rather than manifesting a soul blade directly. Use shapesand for your weapon and get soulknife enhancements on it.

Similar things can be done with an Occultist using the Legacy Weapon focus power, but the soulknife has the benefit of being lightly based off of Wisdom already.

[Vizzerdrix]

(It's almost like you wanted to summon me or something, Max.)

(I am just waking up. This post may be a bit scatter brained.)

You will want to boost wis. To that end, kill an Axeal and become a lycanthrope.

As for sizing, so long as the weapon remains within your control limit you should be fine, but that isn't what we want. So we will find ways around this and go down some rabbit holes :smallbiggrin:

The best way I have found to magic up a shapesand weapon is with a friendly Fiend of Possesion. They can "enchant" a non masterwork weapon.

You could argue that special materials can be mimicked. If you look in Dungeouscape at the drills and hacksaws they have a listing for adamantine versions. If you can mimic an adamantine hacksaw, why not a dagger? As per the rules for using adamantine weapons, they are masterwork.

Other options are classes that enchant weapons by class feature. Like stormlord.

If you want to get silly, go into Magic of Faerun and flip to the Gnome Artificer PrC. Almost none of the devices are magical. Oddly enough, neither is a hagstone. Go look it up in the hags entry.

[Darg]

I don't see a problem. Enchant your arrows, size them to colossal, shape them into tiny castles, size them to fit a medium sized person. Although, one should beware that it is possible to be crushed inside if a dispel is cast.

[unseenmage]

Animate Objects on Shapesand.

PAO or similar into a larger Shapesand creature.

Reshape the resulting additional mass.

Profit.