Star Trek: Your Vision

[Palanan]

As of today (https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/star-trek-4-new-movies-tv-shows-discovery-picard/), CBS has three Star Trek series on its streaming platform and is working on at least three more. But of those three in development, two are set prior to TOS, which gives us a grand total of four prequel series so far.

With the exception of Picard (which I haven’t seen) it’s been a long while since any Trek series has advanced the main timeline. For my part, I’m much less interested in yet more prequels than in seeing how the Star Trek galaxy is coming along after the events of DS9 and the TNG movies.

I suspect I’m not the only one who would rather look ahead than behind. So, what would you like to see in a Trek series that boldly goes into a new era? Here are a few notions of mine:

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1. Just as TNG defined its own era while still allowing for connections with the original show, I like the idea of a new Trek taking place some 70 years after TNG and DS9. That places the events of those series within living memory, but with enough intervening time to allow for major changes and their aftereffects to reverberate throughout the Federation and beyond.

2. I would like the Borg to finally be done with, but not before they’ve assimilated one of the major Alpha Quadrant species. I’m thinking the Cardassians, whose assimilation would have precipitated a final conflict with the Borg in which all the Federation’s ethical qualms went out the window. The Borg Collective is finally gone, but at immense cost to the Federation and its allies, both morally and materially. In addition to the strains of rebuilding, the Federation is also burdened with a massive influx of newly individual Borg drones, many of whom suffer from physical and emotional trauma, and who frequently encounter prejudice and persecution wherever they try to make new lives for themselves.

3. Leading up to the era of this series, Starfleet has become more aggressive and militaristic, and following the destruction of the Cardassian Empire, the Federation has taken over the remnants of Cardassian space and expanded into the regions beyond. With the Klingon Empire in sad decline, the Romulans are the primary counterbalance to the Federation, but internal cultural developments have made them more receptive to a tenuous alliance—even as they watch Federation expansion with deep concern.

4. In earlier eras, the Federation and its allies were still expanding through the main galactic disc, but now the focus of expansion has shifted away from the disc to the globular clusters further above and below the z-plane of the galaxy. These dense clusters are mainly comprised of older stars, with few planets and fewer native civilizations, and thus less competition for resources.

But the true frontier lies beyond the margins of the Milky Way, in the satellite galaxies which are the nearest members of our Local Group. Isolated and unknown, these are true island universes which the Federation has determined to explore. A new sentiment has been rising in the Federation, for a return to the Federation’s earlier principles—and while there is entrenched resistance in much of Starfleet, it is in response to that sentiment that Starfleet has outfitted a fast exploratory vessel for a long-duration cruise to a nearby irregular dwarf galaxy.

Equipped with ancillary scouts, tenders and fighters, the exploratory vessel will be operating entirely on its own in a separate galaxy, without support or even regular communications contact with Federation space. This will be Starfleet’s first mission to uncharted space in decades—and how the mission unfolds will impact not only the Federation, but the history of first contact between two neighboring galaxies.

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So, that’s the Trek series I most want to watch. What’s yours?

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[LibraryOgre]

2. I would like the Borg to finally be done with, but not before they’ve assimilated one of the major Alpha Quadrant species. I’m thinking the Cardassians, whose assimilation would have precipitated a final conflict with the Borg in which all the Federation’s ethical qualms went out the window. The Borg Collective is finally gone, but at immense cost to the Federation and its allies, both morally and materially. In addition to the strains of rebuilding, the Federation is also burdened with a massive influx of newly individual Borg drones, many of whom suffer from physical and emotional trauma, and who frequently encounter prejudice and persecution wherever they try to make new lives for themselves.


Klingons or Romulans would be good, here, since both are in the Beta Quadrant, and the Borg are strong in the Delta quadrant, which is adjacent.

I do like the idea of a post-Voyager visit to the original timeline, and setting is 70+ years afterwards seems like a good idea... after all, we're further from Voyager than TNG was from the original series, so a time jump would make sense. It also lets it be set after All Good Things, and perhaps Picard (which I have not seen, yet, and don't know the timing of). Give us a new Enterprise, and a further exploration of the Beta, Gamma, and Delta quadrants.

My version, with the gap, is somewhat building on what happened in Voyager and DS9... the Federation and its allies made inroads into the Delta and Gamma Quadrants, but they're still wide open spaces. But, with 70 years to work on it, you might have some of the warp corridor technologies working more regularly, so the galaxy is smaller. Or, alternatively, pull a Mass Effect, and the Milky Way is no longer the limit... you're looking at Andromeda, and things beyond the reach of the ancient humanoids who created the largely humanoid species of the galaxy... now that we have the CGI to render non-humanoid aliens relatively easily.

[LaZodiac]

Kelvin Timeline Voyager that basically becomes Firefly but every time Firefly said "actually society and human nature and hope bad" it goes "eeeh good, actually", and also does justice to Voyager's genuinely fascinating premise.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mark Hall
But, with 70 years to work on it, you might have some of the warp corridor technologies working more regularly, so the galaxy is smaller.

This is along the lines of what I’m thinking, although it’s been a while since I’ve watched late-season TNG and DS9, and I never finished Voyager.

I’m thinking that after the conflict with the Borg, the Federation has charted and taken over the transwarp conduits (if I’m remembering correctly), which gives them quicker access through much of the territory in the Alpha Quadrant and some ways beyond.

But I’m also thinking that the more distant half of the Milky Way, behind the galactic bulge, is occupied by some other large interstellar principality which is a hard check on any attempts to expand further in that direction. Thus the mission to the satellite galaxy is not entirely owing to the pure spirit of exploration, but a need to find allies and new economies—a dichotomy in the mission which would be explored as the series unfolds.


Originally Posted by Mark Hall
Klingons or Romulans would be good, here, since both are in the Beta Quadrant, and the Borg are strong in the Delta quadrant, which is adjacent.

I would rather keep these two species intact, since there are still stories to be told with them. I’m especially interested in following up with the Romulans to see the effects of the pro-Vulcan movement which Ambassador Spock helped to encourage. That would give some continuity with TNG, and take the Romulans in a completely new direction.

The Cardassians, by contrast, I don’t mind seeing assimilated. There would be two completely different groups of survivors—those who escaped the assimilation, who are now trying to rebuild beyond the ruins of their former empire, and those who were assimilated and then survived the destruction of the collective, who face additional hatred from the unassimilated survivors. That, to me, is a more interesting setup than a simple continuation of the prior Cardassian empire.


Originally Posted by Mark Hall
Give us a new Enterprise….

I was going back and forth on whether it should be a new Enterprise or a completely different ship. Plenty of reasons either way, and I still can’t really decide.

[Peelee]

I never finished Voyager.
That's OK, neither did the show. HEYO!
Imean come on, they basically just teleport the rest of the way home in the last few episodes. Could have had Q do that in what, episode 3? To be fair, for a ship with the single mission of "get back home", they spent a ridiculous amount of time not being in warp (and I'm taking about before they did whatever events happened in each episode), so massive jumps had to happen for an ending, but still. They should have paced it out more over the entire series and just just tossed it all in on the last season.

[Lagtime]

Well, the latest CBS rumors are that nearly all Star Trek shows have been 'unofficially' canceled, including Picard and Lower Decks. Though the Pike show To Boldly Go is stated to be going forward. The Section 31 ''Dark" show has been thankfully canceled and the third season will be Discovery's last.


I don't think a huge time jump is needed. We are already at 20+ years from the end of the official timeline, if you go by the ENT, OS, TNG, DS9 and Voy TV timeline. This is already far enough into the future. But, it's also a nice point as the vast bulk of all the characters from those shows (except the OS) are still alive and still acting. This allows you to have any of them come back as guest stars. And it does not have to be just the big name stars, but really any character. It would be nice to tie up any of the dozen plot holes, or even just see a character and what they have done over the last twenty years or so. Though it would be fun to have a "reunion" type show where some doctors have to fight a plague with Dr. Crusher and Dr.Basher and the Voyager Doc....and heck, Dr. Sela, Dr. Planski, Holo-Dr. Flox, Holo(or anndroid) Dr. McCoy, for example.

I for one would drop the Borg forever more. First off, they have been played out too much to the point that it is 'ugh the Borg again". Second, the Borg are way too "Star Wars". The borg are now just used as a cheep excuse to have more 'pew pew' childish action in Star Trek....and not in a good way. The typical fan that likes 'pew pew action' does not like or 'get' Star Trek: they watch a typical episode and not only don't like it, are bored by it, but don't get it. But toss some borg in and go pew pew pew, and they love it! So I'm fine with saying that the Voyager borg plague thing obliterated the borg forever...nomore, gone forever.

I would not want Starfleet to be the Grimdark Aggressive and Militaristic, just more of the Original Series American Exceptionalism Patriotic Aggressive and Militaristic. I'm so done with the whole story idea that the government must be Grimdark and evil.

I like the basic exploration. That could be the most basic of a show: exploration. Star Trek has only covered like 15% of the galaxy after all. Exploring strange new places with amazing social commentary on modern day life. Though not really the 'big hot button issues', just more basic human ones. The hope is that the Pike show To Boldly Go will be exactly this.

I also liked the idea of a Federation dystopia: the Federation crumbles and falls. Not by something silly like a war or a beyond dumb 'super nova', but a more realistic thing. Then the show would be about the USS Hope, coming back from a five year mission and out of contact, as the only hope to rebuild the Federation. This has the nice spin that all the aliens and places can be reused as it would take place in the Core Federation. Of course, this idea is the third season Discovery one set in the 29th century.....

So with the dystopia idea done, maybe just a mix of the exploration and close to disaster. Where just the USS Titanic enters a 'far off' sector of space to explore and establish a Federation presence. This could be a nice 'empire building' type serial show.

Though basically get back to the positive show: Star Trek is about hope and a positive vision of the future.

[Dire_Flumph]

I also liked the idea of a Federation dystopia: the Federation crumbles and falls. Not by something silly like a war or a beyond dumb 'super nova', but a more realistic thing. Then the show would be about the USS Hope, coming back from a five year mission and out of contact, as the only hope to rebuild the Federation. This has the nice spin that all the aliens and places can be reused as it would take place in the Core Federation. Of course, this idea is the third season Discovery one set in the 29th century.....

Prepare to look up "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda". Then recoil in horror at how badly that concept gets messed up.

I really liked the idea behind Peter David's "Star Trek: New Frontier" books and thought that would make a great TV show concept. There, instead of the Federation, it's a neighboring stellar empire that has collapsed and a Federation vessel has been dispatched to render aid and assistance where possible to the now adrift members of the former empire.

[Lagtime]

I really liked the idea behind Peter David's "Star Trek: New Frontier" books and thought that would make a great TV show concept. There, instead of the Federation, it's a neighboring stellar empire that has collapsed and a Federation vessel has been dispatched to render aid and assistance where possible to the now adrift members of the former empire.

That could work just as well. And you can fit the social commentary right in: The Socialization once was a mighty group of 100 planets. But then they fell apart from the basic "trying to do too much good", like where the government bans all things 'bad'...but from a set spin point of bad. Plus things like class and race warfare, tossing in aliens, robots and clones. Maybe even too much social media and news.

So the planets break up each independent, or maybe small groups. Each planet having a set way of life that does not mix with most of the other planets...and maybe not the Federation. On planet A robots are people, on planet B they are things, and on planet C they are slaves, and planet D they are abominations to be destroyed. Somehow the lone starfleet ship, the USS Melting Pot must get all the worlds back together. It makes for the great commentary of people can be together without being all one type.

[Hopeless]

I was thinking about the Federation collapsing as a result of infighting that caused the member races to leave the Federation and create new empires, republics, etc as they try to reestablish what they wanted to keep.

Eventually Starfleet is forced to re-establish itself becoming more authoritarian under the belief they know best, but have lost sight about what the Federation was actually about.

Instead of Roddenberry's Andromeda its not 200 years later its about twenty years later as a frigate that was thought lost manages to return to what was Federation space but had to recruit new crew to make the trip back and since they were raised and taught about the Federation we all care about react to the change with disbelief and set out to try and restore what was lost.

No probably wouldn't work either.

[dps]

I agree we don't need any more prequels. Counting the 2 in development, there are actually 5 prequels, 'cause Enterprise was a prequel, too.

I don't have any particular plots in mind, but in general, what I want is something:

A) set post DS-9 and Voyager in the original timeline (the heck with the Abrams movies and their "Kelvan" timeline"),

B) faithful to the tone of TOS, and

C) on actual broadcast TV (the heck with CBS's attempts to use Trek to get us to subscribe to their streaming service).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Lagtime
Well, the latest CBS rumors are that nearly all Star Trek shows have been 'unofficially' canceled, including Picard and Lower Decks. Though the Pike show To Boldly Go is stated to be going forward. The Section 31 ''Dark" show has been thankfully canceled and the third season will be Discovery's last.

Do you have a source on any of these?


Originally Posted by Lagtime
I for one would drop the Borg forever more. First off, they have been played out too much to the point that it is 'ugh the Borg again".

…Star Trek is about hope and a positive vision of the future.

Very much agreed on both these points.


Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
Prepare to look up "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda". Then recoil in horror at how badly that concept gets messed up.

Yeah, I avoided that one completely.

“Earth: Final Conflict” was tolerable for the time, but I didn’t realize until just now that it ran for five seasons. I think I only watched the first season at most. Not something I would recommend these days, just for its overall clunkiness.


Originally Posted by dps
Counting the 2 in development, there are actually 5 prequels, 'cause Enterprise was a prequel, too.

I was including Enterprise in my count, but apparently there are so many prequels I lost track of them all. Definitely a sign the franchise should move on.


Originally Posted by dps
I don't have any particular plots in mind, but in general, what I want is something:

A) set post DS-9 and Voyager in the original timeline (the heck with the Abrams movies and their "Kelvan" timeline"),

B) faithful to the tone of TOS, and

C) on actual broadcast TV (the heck with CBS's attempts to use Trek to get us to subscribe to their streaming service).

And amen to all of this.

[Yora]

Any future for Star Trek has to start after Voyager. Anything else is resting on someone else's laurels and claiming stolen valor.

It also needs to have commitment. It should be planned from the start to have at least 60 to 100 episodes. It doesn't have to be 170 like the old shows, but just doing 10 episode and then let's see where it is going is not going to do it.

Then we need a new ship with a new crew, who are getting into a new situation. We can not repeat TNG again, and we can't repeat DS9 either. It still has to be everything TNG and DS9 was about, though. If it's not, then the whole exercise is already pointless.

That being said, I think DS9 benefited hugely from not flying off to a new planet every weak, forgetting any thoughts about the consequences of what just happened. Coming back to the same places and having to deal with the same people is important for decent storytelling. The show also has to be about thinking and talking. Not about pew, pew, boom!

I had this idea years ago, and I still think it would be a good direction: Make it about a medium sized ship (50-200 people) that is assigned to a fixed region of space. Moving around a lot in that space, but always coming back to the same places where you know people and people know you. I'm not quite sure if a border patrol ship would be the right thing for Star Trek, but something in that direction.
I vote for putting it close to Romulan space, because I really would love to see the Romulans getting fleshed out like the Cardassians and Klingons were in Deep Space Nine. The encounters with Cardassian civilians in the first half of DS9 was always one of my favorite things in the show, until that got thrown out the window to have an edgy war story like Babylon 5. In the same way, learning about the Bajoran population was a great thing. I'd really like to see something like this again, but the situation needs to be something different than the Bajorans and Cardassians.
Just making something up from thin air, but how about a star in the Neutral Zone exploding, sending swarms of refugees asking the Federation to help while they establish new colonies. The Federation is happy to help, but having to build up a dozen of colonies all at the same time greatly stretches their resources. Which just comes at the precise moment when they were about to finally overhaul and upgrade their seriously outdated listening post and border defenses. They also have a problem with criminals both among the refugees and coming from elsewhere, seeing an opportunity to gain a foothold in the new colonies. Working with the leaders of the refugees to address that problem early would be great, but the Federation people are having problems to communicate across cultural barriers. (New crew member in season 2 will be a proffesional interpreter who helps the officers who have so far been over their head with this). And the whole time Rumlans are heckling about Federation hypocrisy from across the border while they have their own agents in unarmed civilian ships doing "humanitarian supply missions" in the neutral zone.

[Peelee]

Any future for Star Trek has to start after Voyager. Anything else is resting on someone else's laurels and claiming stolen valor.

Voyager covers quite a few years that Alpha Quadrant events could happen in. Also, someone could always try to see if they could work in a series based around the Eugenics Wars and go back to the 1990s. That, I think, could be interesting.

[Cikomyr2]

Make a astropolitical show that's basically Game of Throne set in a post-Dominion gamma quadrant, with Starfleet called in to be a stabilizing force in the area.

Add a spice of romulans, Klingons and cardassian to the overall plot. Mayyyyybe have Weyoun or Odo make a cameo, and keep the Dominion to be menacing, but isolationists.

[Caledonian]

I don't think they can go farther into the future - too much technology, too much power.

Which is why I think they're starting the Pike thing. We'll see if they're going to return to the *point* of Star Trek or repeat their error of dark and angsty mindless drama.

Honestly, my vision is basically The Orville.

[Pex]

It's too late now, but in fan-service they should have had Deep Space Nine/Voyager movies. In reality I can understand the actors not wanting to play the characters forever, but The Powers That Be could have at least tried instead of their stupid reboot with a new timeline. I did not watch Picard and am glad I didn't. I don't want grim dark. That's not Star Trek, and I don't care Patrick Stewart wanted something different. I didn't need to see Picard again if it meant ruining the whole point. I don't want Dystopia.

What I would find interesting is a new show with a new cast, but instead of seeking new life and new civilizations they revisit the old ones. How did the Iotians evolve from their mimicking of gangsters. Did McCoy leaving his communicator behind make a difference? What are the Kelvans up to today? How did Ekos recover from its Nazism? How is Zios involved? V-Ger returns. Is Kesprit ready to join the Federation now? They discover where the Whale Probe came from. Does Ornara attack Brekka when they discover they were already cured but were being drugged? Give us the stories of the worlds and beings who were visited and the results that followed.

[Hopeless]

I'd like to see a Starfleet Academy series but not set on Earth as the Federation is large enough to have several so why not one established elsewhere and see how the cadets deal with the ramifications of that?

San Francisco is held up as the dream of cadets to attend but they have to attend the closest branch they have access to so in addition to handling the disappointment of that we have them gradually learning all about star fleet and the occasional ship arrival used to highlight star trek trivia by say going over the specifics of the design and the history of the ship perhaps going over their predecessors and which species it relates to?

Gradually expand until you have an ongoing series based in the systems around that academy maybe set it around TNG or before then as long as they keep crossovers to a minimum unless they have someway to avoid upsetting canon.

[Rodin]

Any future for Star Trek has to start after Voyager. Anything else is resting on someone else's laurels and claiming stolen valor.

It also needs to have commitment. It should be planned from the start to have at least 60 to 100 episodes. It doesn't have to be 170 like the old shows, but just doing 10 episode and then let's see where it is going is not going to do it.

Then we need a new ship with a new crew, who are getting into a new situation. We can not repeat TNG again, and we can't repeat DS9 either. It still has to be everything TNG and DS9 was about, though. If it's not, then the whole exercise is already pointless.

That being said, I think DS9 benefited hugely from not flying off to a new planet every weak, forgetting any thoughts about the consequences of what just happened. Coming back to the same places and having to deal with the same people is important for decent storytelling. The show also has to be about thinking and talking. Not about pew, pew, boom!

I had this idea years ago, and I still think it would be a good direction: Make it about a medium sized ship (50-200 people) that is assigned to a fixed region of space. Moving around a lot in that space, but always coming back to the same places where you know people and people know you. I'm not quite sure if a border patrol ship would be the right thing for Star Trek, but something in that direction.
I vote for putting it close to Romulan space, because I really would love to see the Romulans getting fleshed out like the Cardassians and Klingons were in Deep Space Nine. The encounters with Cardassian civilians in the first half of DS9 was always one of my favorite things in the show, until that got thrown out the window to have an edgy war story like Babylon 5. In the same way, learning about the Bajoran population was a great thing. I'd really like to see something like this again, but the situation needs to be something different than the Bajorans and Cardassians.
Just making something up from thin air, but how about a star in the Neutral Zone exploding, sending swarms of refugees asking the Federation to help while they establish new colonies. The Federation is happy to help, but having to build up a dozen of colonies all at the same time greatly stretches their resources. Which just comes at the precise moment when they were about to finally overhaul and upgrade their seriously outdated listening post and border defenses. They also have a problem with criminals both among the refugees and coming from elsewhere, seeing an opportunity to gain a foothold in the new colonies. Working with the leaders of the refugees to address that problem early would be great, but the Federation people are having problems to communicate across cultural barriers. (New crew member in season 2 will be a proffesional interpreter who helps the officers who have so far been over their head with this). And the whole time Rumlans are heckling about Federation hypocrisy from across the border while they have their own agents in unarmed civilian ships doing "humanitarian supply missions" in the neutral zone.


I'd like to see a Starfleet Academy series but not set on Earth as the Federation is large enough to have several so why not one established elsewhere and see how the cadets deal with the ramifications of that?

San Francisco is held up as the dream of cadets to attend but they have to attend the closest branch they have access to so in addition to handling the disappointment of that we have them gradually learning all about star fleet and the occasional ship arrival used to highlight star trek trivia by say going over the specifics of the design and the history of the ship perhaps going over their predecessors and which species it relates to?

Gradually expand until you have an ongoing series based in the systems around that academy maybe set it around TNG or before then as long as they keep crossovers to a minimum unless they have someway to avoid upsetting canon.

I like both of these ideas. The Starfleet Academy one strikes me as a good premise for an animated show. Not sure why.

I would still want a show that's about "seek out new life and new civilizations". It's a premise that we haven't seen done well since TNG. I'd kind of like to see it done in the style of the old Doctor Who serials - spend 3-4 episodes on each new discovery. Weave in a slow-burn longer story that takes place over an entire season, but which isn't the main focus of any individual episode until near the end. The main focus would be the joy and hopefulness that comes from finding out more about the universe.

We haven't had that in a very long time.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Yora
I had this idea years ago, and I still think it would be a good direction: Make it about a medium sized ship (50-200 people) that is assigned to a fixed region of space. Moving around a lot in that space, but always coming back to the same places where you know people and people know you. I'm not quite sure if a border patrol ship would be the right thing for Star Trek, but something in that direction.

I really like this idea. There’s room for discovery here, but also for building a complex sociopolitical storyline. This offers the opportunity to explore a number of cultures in depth, and in the process question some of the Federation’s assumptions about how to interact with other species. It’s one thing to accept an insectoid species despite their unsettling appearance, but quite another to know how to respond when the queen of the house very kindly offers her honored guests some of her own unfertilized eggs as an appetizer.


Originally Posted by Yora
New crew member in season 2 will be a proffesional interpreter who helps the officers who have so far been over their head with this.

I would include this character right from the start, but sidelined by the officers who think they can simply apply Starfleet regulations to any situation, together with a dash of high-minded idealism.

Once that falls through a couple of times, the officers can rather grudgingly acknowledge a role for the cultural interpreter, who can become more prominent in the region after a few successes…and maybe some well-meaning failures along the way.


Originally Posted by Rodin
The Starfleet Academy one strikes me as a good premise for an animated show. Not sure why.

Most of the characters would be teens, so the primary audience would be younger teens and below, which lends itself to an animated format.


Originally Posted by Rodin
I would still want a show that's about "seek out new life and new civilizations". It's a premise that we haven't seen done well since TNG. I'd kind of like to see it done in the style of the old Doctor Who serials - spend 3-4 episodes on each new discovery. Weave in a slow-burn longer story that takes place over an entire season, but which isn't the main focus of any individual episode until near the end. The main focus would be the joy and hopefulness that comes from finding out more about the universe.

We haven't had that in a very long time.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[dps]

Most of the characters would be teens, so the primary audience would be younger teens and below, which lends itself to an animated format.


I don't necessarily buy the "animation is for kids" idea here, but another advantage of doing a Starfleet Academy show as an animated show is that if it's successful and lasts, you don't have to worry about the actors aging.

[Tvtyrant]

I would prefer the Borg become a member of the Federation to be honest. Instead of forced assimilation joining is actually voluntary, the new Data is a borg. The borg believe assimilation is inevitable, so the philosophical movement is towards making the collective appealing to Federation citizens. All they have to do is wait and eventually everyone will become a member of the collective by choice.

Forcing people to follow your ideals always seemed like a shallow endorsement of them, as if the group doesn't really believe people will see the value of them. A peaceful Borg would highlight the difference ideals of individualism in the Federation, and give an excuse to have an outsider everything has to be explained to.

[LibraryOgre]

I would prefer the Borg become a member of the Federation to be honest. Instead of forced assimilation joining is actually voluntary, the new Data is a borg. The borg believe assimilation is inevitable, so the philosophical movement is towards making the collective appealing to Federation citizens. All they have to do is wait and eventually everyone will become a member of the collective by choice.

Forcing people to follow your ideals always seemed like a shallow endorsement of them, as if the group doesn't really believe people will see the value of them. A peaceful Borg would highlight the difference ideals of individualism in the Federation, and give an excuse to have an outsider everything has to be explained to.

You might even have, essentially, a rogue Collective. Hugh, from TNG, and later Seven and other semi-rogue drones (I recall Chakotay being helped by survivors from a damaged cube or sphere, who maintained a degree of connection) from Voyager have shown that the Collective is regarded largely positively from the inside, even when they leave, but they have problems with the forced nature of it. If the queen is dead, then they may become a more voluntary collective, centered around some of these groups.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by dps
I don't necessarily buy the "animation is for kids" idea here….

Well, one of the planned new Trek series is focused on teens (https://www.startrek.com/news/star-trek-prodigy-has-arrived), and it’s the only one that will be animated. Animation certainly has potential far beyond kids’ shows, but in the modern media landscape they tend to go together.


Originally Posted by dps
…but another advantage of doing a Starfleet Academy show as an animated show is that if it's successful and lasts, you don't have to worry about the actors aging.

Certainly a point, although after a certain number of seasons it may be appropriate to age them, as with Ahsoka in Clone Wars.

Alternatively, a live-action show could follow a group of new cadets over several years, from admission to graduation, in the same way that we’ve watched students work their way through the Hogwarts curriculum.


Originally Posted by Tvtyrant
Instead of forced assimilation joining is actually voluntary….

A voluntary collective is creepy as hell.

I could see Starfleet in the position of having to defend a genuinely voluntary collective from a crusade of retribution against them. That would work either in my concept or in Yora’s. It could fit very well into Yora’s idea of a ship patrolling a specific region, if the voluntary collective has peacefully established a colony but comes under threat from other groups in the region. It would certainly lend itself to discussions of free will and the spread of new philosophies.

Also, I could see humans who are Borg groupies, with no real idea of what an actual collective is like, but who are drawn to the false promise of peaceful communion with other minds. Pro-assimilation activists could be an internal threat to Federation culture, especially if (to borrow from another franchise) they pull a Baltar and allow a collective to access planetary defenses.


Originally Posted by Mark Hall
If the queen is dead….

From what I can tell, the Borg seem to be like fire ants, with multiple queens. It may be that even if all the current queens are destroyed, the collective may designate individual drones to be elevated to queen status—or drones with a strong latent personality may self-elevate and somehow become new queens.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'm not sure you can do much with Star Trek. It's an old property, and old properties tend to be weighed down by their long-established tropes. But given that playing with the Star Trek setting is what's on the table....

I'd remove/change the Borg. Like tvtyrant suggests, I'd prefer them to just be a passive force or an outright member of the federation rather than destroyed, but given how crazy fans can be, I'd be comfortable with them just never getting a mention so I never have to address them. Everyone, even the Borg, just forgot they ever existed. Still, it might be fun to have a cyborg cast member. Maybe make it a new species that hasn't appeared before because the way the shows tended to deal with cyborgs up until now has been kind of silly. Bynars, anyone?

But here's my main premise. Star Trek: Nations.

This particular crew has the job of going to planets who are prospective members of Starfleet and evaluating their suitability to join (or maybe stay) in the Federation. To that end, they examine various social data indicators and cultural traditions that the society has which may conflict with the ideals of the Federation and give an up/down vote to whether or not their society is "good enough" to become a member. At the end, they give the society/leaders/planet a guideline towards recognizing any incompatibles with the Federation are and how best to address it. Basically a list of, "implement these long-term changes if you are serious". It would be a single-point-failure system, so planets/cultures that failed before in a specific way can get a revisit in later episodes.

The crew members would be mostly people who are experts in various historical and social sciences. The people who would best be able to look at a society and identify and address problems in that society. I'm thinking that the tone would be more like a police procedural than a typical show, with characters looking at the indicators they've been given to examine, checking it for validity and gathering their own data to check it. Then discussing what they see as any lingering legacies that taint the overall development/education of the society in question. No action, no space, just lots of talking followed by giving the prospective member the news one way or the other along with figuring out how they might fix their most serious problem(s).

Basically, this would involve worlds that have mostly just gained warp travel but haven't yet gone through the rigorous enlightenment process that Earth went through in order to "solve" all the historical problems of Earth. Instead of just making up babble, I'd also prefer to get a few different types of social scientists on board as being technical consultants, to reduce the likelihood of accidentally stepping onto a nuke of ignorant, nonsense conjecture. Let's glorify the social sciences a bit, why not?

Oh, and I'd also want the cast to more appropriately reflect real world data in terms of the variability of human background traits and identity. Star Trek is probably the single silliest franchise to exhibit poor representation. I mean hey, if we're talking about what I want to see, I want to see a positive future I can actually believe could exist because there's no glaring oversights, or blatant errors. Aww, poor Robert Beltran. It wasn't his fault...

Given the rules of the forum, I tried to make my summary as vague as I could and I won't be expanding upon them if asked.

[Yora]

So I was scribbling some notes on my Star Trek fanfic, and I ran into a curious question:

What are First Officers actually good for?

In reality, the Executive Officer's responsibility is crew management. Star Trek basically never bothers with the enlisted crew, so that aspect never really comes up.

Of the First Officers we had, Spock was also Science Officer, Kira was the chief Bajoran representative, and (I had to look this up) T'Pol was both Science Officer and Vulcan Representative.
Riker and Chakotay were just first officer, and I would argue the most boring characters on their respective shows, who never had anything to do on their ships.

Narratively speaking, should a show about a pure Starfleet crew bother with having a dedicated first officer? I thought that you'd obviously had to have one one a ship, but they seem to be serving no purpose story-wise. Executive Officers just have nothing to do when the show is all about a group of senior officers.

[Peelee]

So I was scribbling some notes on my Star Trek fanfic, and I ran into a curious question:

What are First Officers actually good for?

In reality, the Executive Officer's responsibility is crew management. Star Trek basically never bothers with the enlisted crew, so that aspect never really comes up.

Of the First Officers we had, Spock was also Science Officer, Kira was the chief Bajoran representative, and (I had to look this up) T'Pol was both Science Officer and Vulcan Representative.
Riker and Chakotay were just first officer, and I would argue the most boring characters on their respective shows, who never had anything to do on their ships.

Narratively speaking, should a show about a pure Starfleet crew bother with having a dedicated first officer? I thought that you'd obviously had to have one one a ship, but they seem to be serving no purpose story-wise. Executive Officers just have nothing to do when the show is all about a group of senior officers.

Backup captain. Vice president of the ship. First one command goes to. Someone for the captain to bounce ideas off.

[Tvtyrant]

So I was scribbling some notes on my Star Trek fanfic, and I ran into a curious question:

What are First Officers actually good for?

In reality, the Executive Officer's responsibility is crew management. Star Trek basically never bothers with the enlisted crew, so that aspect never really comes up.

Of the First Officers we had, Spock was also Science Officer, Kira was the chief Bajoran representative, and (I had to look this up) T'Pol was both Science Officer and Vulcan Representative.
Riker and Chakotay were just first officer, and I would argue the most boring characters on their respective shows, who never had anything to do on their ships.

Narratively speaking, should a show about a pure Starfleet crew bother with having a dedicated first officer? I thought that you'd obviously had to have one one a ship, but they seem to be serving no purpose story-wise. Executive Officers just have nothing to do when the show is all about a group of senior officers.

TNG had some episodes where Riker's role as FO dealing with crew issues came up, but I think a large part is a way for a legal mutiny to throw off a bad captain. If the crew convinces the FO the captain is crazy they can relieve her/him of command, which is an important ability. If the FO wants it and the crew doesn't he/she gets thrown into the brig.

[akma]

I admit I haven't watched much of star trek in general except for Voyager. The last episode of Voyager I watched is year of hell part 2.

I have an idea that combines some of yours: decades in the future, warp technology is much more advanced and the federation's reach is much greater, so they can maintain a diplomatic space station in the delta quadrant. It is still far away, so if they get into serious trouble, it would probably take too long for reinforcements to arrive.

Maybe the Talaxians will join the federation (seems too obvious, so adding a complication would be nice). Voyager found a planet with humans, there was the race that the Kaizons used to be their slaves, there is an aggressive race that blockades huge parts of space for itself, there is much more undeveloped potential and new aliens could be easily added - Voyager generally moved in one direction so there is a lot of room to explore, and many years have passed.

The distance does mean there will be less presence from familiar races, which will lessen the appeal for many fans.

For the cast, in this very moment I think it would be nice if one is a Kaizon, one is half Talaxian half alpha quadrant race and one is a descendant of someone who was on Voyager. A member of a new race could join the cast in a later episode, after they'll meat its race. The show will mainly follow the adventures of one of the ships assigned to the station, although the commanding officer of the station (an admiral?) would make frequent appearances. About half of their missions would be diplomatic and about half of them exploratory.

[Yora]

The position certainly has it's purpose in the crew hierarchy.

But is it sufficient as a character role in a multi-season episodic TV show?

I think Riker and Chakotay have both shown very well that it doesn't. It's not enough to define a character who will be interesting in that role in the long run.
It might be possible to make it work, but I think TOS, DS9, and ENT did the right choice and give that role to a character who is primarily defined by other things.

I remember Kira at least telling us with some regularity that she was doing crew management work, but it was always off screen. Someone working on spreadheets for next week's shift assignments just doesn't make for interesting stories.

When the recent parody cartoon came out, it got a lot of people talking about the old TNG episode lower decks, which followed some low level crew members around as a one-shot. I also remember people having fond memories about the idea behind a Voyager episode that dealt with unruly and underperforming Maquis people, and a disappointment that the concept didn't really become a relevant point of the show (even though it was central to the original premise).

I think it could be really interesting to have a cast that is half command officer and half enlisted crew. McCoy had nurse Chapple, Crusher had an assistant doctor who appeared somewhat regularly, early in season 2 of DS9 O'Brien had a Bajoran assistant, and later we got Nog and Rom become low rank crew members as well. Though in the case of the last two, their close personal relationship with the main cast muddled the difference between command crew and regular staff.
Deep Space Nine also developed a pretty decent cast of civilians over time, though again mostly in close personal relationship with the main cast. Neelix didn't work out, but a similar idea was there.
And looking beyond Star Trek, in Babylon 5 the command staff was a minority of the main cast.

I think for a show that is about a Starfleet ship, having a "prime" cast of five command officers (Captain, Engineering, Security, Medical, Science) that appears in 90% of episodes, and a "secondary" cast of five crewmen (pilot, chief nurse, second engineer, communications, quartermaster) that appears in 50% of episodes, with a social-hierarchical distance between them could be interesting.
And then the role of an executive officer could become much more viable, as we could see the morale and discipline issues from single-episode crewmen through the perspective of their secondary cast friends.

[Arcane_Secrets]

I would prefer the Borg become a member of the Federation to be honest. Instead of forced assimilation joining is actually voluntary, the new Data is a borg. The borg believe assimilation is inevitable, so the philosophical movement is towards making the collective appealing to Federation citizens. All they have to do is wait and eventually everyone will become a member of the collective by choice.

Forcing people to follow your ideals always seemed like a shallow endorsement of them, as if the group doesn't really believe people will see the value of them. A peaceful Borg would highlight the difference ideals of individualism in the Federation, and give an excuse to have an outsider everything has to be explained to.

I really like this as an idea, especially since the Borg keep on being shown (in no way an objection) as being capable of being not evil as long as they don't have the imperative of forced assimilation/destruction.

If its going to be set after Voyager, what about having a starship where all of the crew is holograms/computer programs, and they have to figure out how to deal with life forms that are both very different because they're biological and because they have very different goals/ways of living than the Federation does. This could even be meshed with one episode with ST:TNG that the following series pretty much seem to have ignored (understandably) in that perhaps a new warp technology that doesn't cause subspace incursions is too inimical to biological organisms, but programs and holograms can survive it with no problems?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Yora
Narratively speaking, should a show about a pure Starfleet crew bother with having a dedicated first officer?

Yes, because that’s how Starfleet is organized. If you have a command crew without a first officer in a Star Trek context, you’ll need to explain that absence, which may end up being more trouble than it’s worth.

Beyond that, the XO is the captain’s hatchet man. The XO gets things done, even if they’re unpopular, and a captain can hide behind that—or at the least delegate all the hard work to the XO, as Captain Jellico did during his temporary command in the sixth season of TNG.

As for the rank’s use as a character role, I’d say that depends on what kind of stories you want to tell. Colonel Tigh on BSG showed how a character can have both personal and professional issues which interact with each other to the detriment not only of the character, but to that character’s relationships and the ship itself.


Originally Posted by Yora
Star Trek basically never bothers with the enlisted crew, so that aspect never really comes up.

I seem to recall that TOS included more technicians and ordinary crew, but for whatever reason that emphasis was lost in TNG, except when families were involved and they needed to show parents who were part of the crew.

A series that shows us officers and enlisted working together is very feasible, since Battlestar Galactica excelled at that. Many of the characters on BSG were enlisted, from Chief Tyrol and Cally to Dee and Seelix. With Dee and Seelix in particular, BSG also showed that enlisted can and do become commissioned officers while serving, which I don’t think Trek has ever shown. Given that so much of BSG was deliberately intended to be different from Trek, I wouldn’t be surprised if the emphasis on enlisted was part of that approach.

I would say that TNG’s lack of interest in the enlisted crew is a major drawback to the series, but there’s no need for that to be perpetuated. They’re the ones doing the grunt work, unglamorous and often out of sight; but they’re just as human as the officers, with personal lives that are just as complex and deserving of attention. And following an enlisted crewman on his rise through the ranks, until he earns his commission and joins the junior officers, would be a great way to explore the dynamics of the crew.

[Yora]

I am having quite a bit of fun running with my ideas, and it's starting to turn into some kind of actual fan fiction work. It goes beyond the actual topic here, but why not share it here anyway?


2156-2160 Romulan War
2364 First Borg Invasion (TNG)
2373 Second Borg Invasion, Start of Dominion War (First Contact, DS9)
2375 End of the Dominion War (Ending DS9)
2376 Current Year

Background
After the war between the Federation and the Romulans, the two powers agreed on a buffer zone between their respective borders in which neither side would hold any territorial claims and was forbidden to send any military ships. Though there were still several inhabited planets inside the Neutral Zone.
In 2294, the Destarians send a message to the Federation requesting assistance with ecological problems on their planet Destar III, but because of the treaty with the Romulans the Federation did not send any ships to survey the situation. In the following decade, a space anomaly caused the star Destar to gradually increase its radiation emissions that causes health risks and greatly damages the environment, leading to the Destsrians establishing large numbers of colonies on nearby habitable planets. Even though millions have already fled to the new colonies, there are still 3 billion living on Destar III. With conditions deteriorating and the colonies not yet having sufficient housing to take everyone one, large numbers of Destaran refugee ships arrive at the Federation border begging for shelter.

"Season 1"
The research ship Perseverance receives an emergency call from a Destarian refugee ship just inside the Neutral Zone. The crew considers their experience with the Kobayashi-Maru Exercise, but the captain makes the call to go and assist, but also broadcasting a signal that they are only a research ship with minimal weapons and that they are providing assistance to an emergency at specified coordinates.
When they arrive, they find the ship in terrible conditions. They escort the ship to Federation space and the captain asks about the reason to travel like that. She asks why the Destarians didn't ask for help earlier and is told that they did a century ago before things got bad, but had been ignored.
The Federation wants to send a major relief mission to Destar III, but the Romulans still refuse to allow military forces into the Neutral Zone. As a compromise they permit the passage of small ships with limited armaments, and only within a clearly defined area connecting Destar to Federation territory. As the Perseverance falls into that category, it gets a new mission.
The Perseverance has several adventures trying to get the building swarm of refugees to safety, help with the maintenance of Destarian ships, and deliver supplies to overcrowded Destarian colonies. They are trying their best but often have problems understanding why the Destarians keep going against the instructions they've been given, or act hostile to people who try to help them.

"Season 2"
All kinds of criminals are trying to exploit the Destarian regugees and the Perseverance is trying to fight off pirates with their limited offensive capabilities, and hunting ruthless con men and slavers. The ship gets a new exo-culture communications expert to help the command crew better understand the needs and frustrations of the Destarians.
At the same time, terraforming projects are started to make more planets suitable for Destarian colonies close to their homeworld, which the Romulans thinks goes beyond disaster relief and accusse to be a blatant attempt to build illegal colonies under Federation control. They also claim it violates the Federation's Prime Directive as their support will give the Destarians an advantage over other neutral species in the Neutral Zone.
Meanwhile the Federation is greatly concerned about how the Romulans are dealing with refugees heading towards their territory, but the Romulans allow no interference with their activities, which are always shrouded in deceptions.

"Season 3"
With the most pressing issues adressed, the Perseverance turns its attention to transform the hastily created refugee camps on harsh planets into self sustaining colonies. Internal conflicts about allegiance to the government of Deatar III and the social model for the new colonies causes problems with the first directive. Meanwhile some people from the Perseverance form personal relationships with some Destarians on a new colony they regularly visit.

"Season 4"
Some of the Destarian colonies that have been established outside of the Neutral Zone want to become full members of the Federation. The main Destarian government refuses to grant them independence and considers the colonies Destarian property, and Federation law forbids the joining of worlds with disputed sovereignity. This leads to a civil war in which the Romulans are deliberately poking the hornet nest while trying to deny their involvement.

Main Players
Captain of the Perseverance
Captain of Starfleet Ship #2
Starfleet Admiral for the Relief Mission
Federation Ambassador to the Romulans

Romulan Proconsul for the Border Region
Tal Shiar Task Group Leader (assists Proconsul)

Foreign Minister of Destar III
Destarian Colony Leader

Compassionate Freighter Captain
Greedy Freighter Captain

Various Concepts
The Perseverance has a small command crew of only five officers, but these a supplemented by several regular crewmen, chiefs, and ensigns, who end up doing a lot of the dirty work, like treating injured, repairing infrastructure, and distributing supplies, where they get first hand encounters with regular Destarians and freighter crews that have been chartered by the Federation.

The story is greatly focused on learning about situations and talking things out. Being set in the Neutral Zone, there's barely any presence of military power. That does make run ins with pirates or Destarian patrol ship very dangerous for the Perseverance, but they don't have the weapons or the shields to just slug it out. Confrontations are more about talking things out or running for safety. The crew also isn't much suited for fighting. With their ship being useless against the Dominion, they never got anywhere close to the war.

The series brings back the concept of visiting new planets with strange cultures that make the Starfleet people uneasy. But unlike earlier show, the episodes don't end with the primitive natives being educated about their misguided ways, or the captain giving a sad shrug and saying there is nothing they can do to help, but at least the superior Federation culture is above such things. Instead the lessons are that people doing things differently does make them wrong, and that assistance should be in the form of helping them to work out their difficulties among themselves and not dictate a solution as outsiders.

The idea for the Destarians is directly inspired by the Bajorans, but should not be a copy. They are not subjugated people who are rebuiding their society after an occupation. They are climate refugees who building new lives for themselves in new places after arriving with almost nothing. Their hardships are about receiving assistance to build a new existance, integrating with a new culture, and disagreements on how much they should try preserving their old culture.
Their biggest challenges are people not carring what happens to them or trying to exploit them while they are vulnerable.

The Romulans still don't trust the Federation and are genuinely worried about Starfleet not going to leave the Neutral Zone after the current mission is over. They also don't let any opportunity pass to point at any mistake the Federation makes while always being deeply offended at any criticism coming their way, and always shouting loudly about Federation hipocrisy. (Insert world leader of your choice here.)
The Romulan Proconsul is genuinely concerned about security and sees Destarian settlers in Romulan space as a potential benefit for the Empire, if they can keep them highly regulated. He's a political rival for the Perseverance captain and the Admiral, but not an enemy. (Maybe like Dukat in the early seasons, but without the genocide.) The Tal Shiar officer puts on a smile, but really just wants to harm the Federation at every oppostunity, despite the Proconsul's wishes.

Starfleet Ship #2 has a crew from species that breath methane, that always wears environment suits when visiting the Perseverance or lands on planets.

[Cikomyr2]

Backup captain. Vice president of the ship. First one command goes to. Someone for the captain to bounce ideas off.

That's not the role of an XO on a ship. The administrative role of the XO is closer to a Chief of Staff to the captain, where all day to day operations with the department heads has to be handled by the XO, with the Captain involving himself at his own discretion as much or as little as he sees fit.

[Peelee]

That's not the role of an XO on a ship. The administrative role of the XO is closer to a Chief of Staff to the captain, where all day to day operations with the department heads has to be handled by the XO, with the Captain involving himself at his own discretion as much or as little as he sees fit.

Are we talking about real-life XOs or Star Trek First Officers, though?

[Blackhawk748]

I had this idea years ago, and I still think it would be a good direction: Make it about a medium sized ship (50-200 people) that is assigned to a fixed region of space. Moving around a lot in that space, but always coming back to the same places where you know people and people know you. I'm not quite sure if a border patrol ship would be the right thing for Star Trek, but something in that direction.
I vote for putting it close to Romulan space, because I really would love to see the Romulans getting fleshed out like the Cardassians and Klingons were in Deep Space Nine. The encounters with Cardassian civilians in the first half of DS9 was always one of my favorite things in the show, until that got thrown out the window to have an edgy war story like Babylon 5. In the same way, learning about the Bajoran population was a great thing. I'd really like to see something like this again, but the situation needs to be something different than the Bajorans and Cardassians.

Personally I wanted them to go off of Star Trek Online's story arc, which is far more war focused but that makes sense for the game. Setting after the Second Iconian War ( which takes place in STO) would let us do just this, except that the ship could be in the Delta Quadrant and using the Iconian Gate stationed in the Dyson Sphere that the Federation/Romulan/Klingon forces control (the Federation controls the one on the other side, it's the one they found in TNG)

This lets us go to a place that is familiar, but wasn't fully explored (the Delta Quadrant) and lets us flesh out the Kazan and other Delta quadrant species, who were fairly well liked if shallow.

[Cikomyr2]

Are we talking about real-life XOs or Star Trek First Officers, though?

Both. There are three instances where we see Starfleet XO act as chief of staffs in the Trek Verse, or their role are discussed:

- TNG: Chain of Command, where Jellico expect his XO to be the one who reorganize the ship from 3 shifts of 8 hours to 4 shifts of 6 hours.
- TNG: Tapestry, where we see a lowly ranking Picard approach Riker to discuss advancement opportunities.
- VOY: Night, where Janeway falls into a depression and withdraw to her quarter on a permanent basis. Chakotay defends her, says its her privilege as captain to be there only as much as she wants.


PARIS: Rumour has it she never leaves her quarters.
CHAKOTAY: Captain's privilege. She'll come to the bridge if and when she's needed.
TORRES: Spare us the protocol, Chakotay. It's pretty odd, you've got to admit it.

Obviously, Chakotay tries to convince her to stop, because he feels it's against the best interest of the crew for Janeway to stay put. But he only does it privately and in public backs his CO 100%

[Storm_Of_Snow]

The position certainly has it's purpose in the crew hierarchy.

But is it sufficient as a character role in a multi-season episodic TV show?

I think Riker and Chakotay have both shown very well that it doesn't. It's not enough to define a character who will be interesting in that role in the long run.
It might be possible to make it work, but I think TOS, DS9, and ENT did the right choice and give that role to a character who is primarily defined by other things.

Well, the Enterprise-D as the Federation flagship was very scrambled egg heavy (a lot of officers :smallwink:), and to an extent, Riker's role was to take the dangerous away missions and similar roles for Picard, so they wouldn't be risking the senior captain in the Federation, plus run one of the crew shifts (New Frontier shows it better with Calhoun, Shelby and Kat Mueller as the XO), and I've a vague memory if him being responsible for crew evaluations etc on a few occasions.

And I'd argue Riker did become an interesting character over time. Especially when the writers remembered there were other people than Data and Wesley Crusher to write for.

As for Chakotay, well, that really shows how badly produced Voyager was - he should have been the link between the Federation and the Maquis crews, and to an extent taking flak from elements on both sides (once a traitor, always a traitor from the Fed side, or sold out the cause as far as the ex-Maquis are concerned). He could even have been seen by some people as a potential candidate to mutiny, overthrow Janeway and take over the ship, whether he ever intended to or not.

[Kitten Champion]

Are we talking about real-life XOs or Star Trek First Officers, though?

That depends on the series though. Spock was more about being science officer and adviser than managing staff in any given story. Him being first officer was more about the drama it offered the writers when Kirk was no longer in command - for whatever reason - that this entirely human crew would be subject to this unfeeling Vulcan which almost always led to acrimony. T'Pol on Enterprise was designed to be much the same.

Riker however does fit that description though. He's the day-to-day guy who deals with duty shifts, department reports, individual promotions, and whatnot. Chakotay too, for the most part.

[Trafalgar]

I suspect I’m not the only one who would rather look ahead than behind. So, what would you like to see in a Trek series that boldly goes into a new era?


I would like to see something more than a corporate attempt to cash in on nostalgia.

I would like to see a show where most of the effort goes into writing well crafted dialogue (like GOT Season 1) and not into creating over long, tiring CGI spectacles (like GOT Season 8).

I would like to see an ensemble crew of at least 6 decent actors whose characters develop from episode to episode.

I would like to see a show that doesn't confuse science fiction with pew-pew-pew.

I would like to see a Star Trek show where the crew is committed to the ideals of the Federation. If the crew fails, it should be because the ideals are hard to live up to and not because the ideals are dumb.

I would like to see a show that remembers what the Prime Directive is and why it exists.

I would like to see a show that does not try to cram in any crew members from TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT, STD, or Picard just for fan service. If the new characters are likable, I don't need a Wesley Crusher cameo.

I would like to see a show with little or no Klingons in it. Don't get me wrong, I like Klingons, but I feel like they have been done to death.

I would like to see a show that makes feel that a better future is possible.

[Yora]

I would like to see something more than a corporate attempt to cash in on nostalgia.

I would like to see a show where most of the effort goes into writing well crafted dialogue (like GOT Season 1) and not into creating over long, tiring CGI spectacles (like GOT Season 8).

I would like to see an ensemble crew of at least 6 decent actors whose characters develop from episode to episode.

I would like to see a show that doesn't confuse science fiction with pew-pew-pew.

I would like to see a Star Trek show where the crew is committed to the ideals of the Federation. If the crew fails, it should be because the ideals are hard to live up to and not because the ideals are dumb.

I would like to see a show that remembers what the Prime Directive is and why it exists.

I would like to see a show that does not try to cram in any crew members from TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT, STD, or Picard just for fan service. If the new characters are likable, I don't need a Wesley Crusher cameo.

I would like to see a show with little or no Klingons in it. Don't get me wrong, I like Klingons, but I feel like they have been done to death.

I would like to see a show that makes feel that a better future is possible.

Yes.

All of it.

That's all that Star Trek really is about.

[Rodin]

My only dissent is that I'm broadly okay with cameos. However, it needs to actually be a cameo, and not the character taking a major part in the story. For example, in one of the TNG novels Picard is shown fencing in the holodeck against a holographic Sulu. The fencing comes up again later. Sulu does not.

Take the Starfleet Academy show idea. If they want Riker to deliver the commencement address (whether in the flesh or in the distant future as a standard recording all students are shown), that's perfectly fine. If they make him the commandant of the academy who plays the Principal Belding role...ugh.

[Trafalgar]

My only dissent is that I'm broadly okay with cameos. However, it needs to actually be a cameo, and not the character taking a major part in the story. For example, in one of the TNG novels Picard is shown fencing in the holodeck against a holographic Sulu. The fencing comes up again later. Sulu does not.

Take the Starfleet Academy show idea. If they want Riker to deliver the commencement address (whether in the flesh or in the distant future as a standard recording all students are shown), that's perfectly fine. If they make him the commandant of the academy who plays the Principal Belding role...ugh.

Maybe I used the wrong word. In "Encounter at Far Point", McCoy has a cameo and is shown around the ship by Data. It makes me roll my eyes when I rewatch that episode, but I wouldn't say it took away from the series. But I would definitely say involvement by an original character just to bump ratings would be offensive. Kind of like Kahn in "Into Darkness". We are going to change everything about this character and shoehorn him in just so people say "Ohhhhh, that's Kahn".

[Blackhawk748]

I don't mind cameos. I actually liked the episode with Scotty in TNG and if the new show wanted to do an episode where we run into Captain Harry Kim and get to see what he's up to 30 years out I'm fine with that.

Or hell, I wouldn't even have an issue with Harry BEING the captain for the show. Such an underutilized character.

[LibraryOgre]

Take the Starfleet Academy show idea. If they want Riker to deliver the commencement address (whether in the flesh or in the distant future as a standard recording all students are shown), that's perfectly fine. If they make him the commandant of the academy who plays the Principal Belding role...ugh.

Ok, it would be HORRIBLE Star Trek, but I admit to being amused at Will Riker playing Principal Belding.

I've said it before, but I think Star Trek started to go downhill at DS9... not because DS9 is bad (it very much is not), but because DS9 is where they shifted from "the ideals of the Federation" to realpolitik as a driving force. And while realpolitik makes great drama, it does not, IMO, make for good Star Trek. Voyager, in many ways, tried to get back to the ideals of the Federation, with our two principal Maquis cast members (Chakotay and Torres) being former Federation who return to the Federation's ideals under Janeway's guidance. But when you get to Enterprise, you move to realpolitik, with the Federation being in its infancy. Discovery has also tended towards realpolitik, as shown by the end of the 1st season. And that can be great science fiction, and great drama, but I think it is more limited Trek.

Ideally, Federation captains should be Paladins, devoted to the ideals of the Federation, and upholding them above all else. Increasingly, though, they've moved away from that, making the moral and ethical compromises that might push the story forward, but don't forward the Federation ideals.

[akma]

As for Chakotay, well, that really shows how badly produced Voyager was - he should have been the link between the Federation and the Maquis crews, and to an extent taking flak from elements on both sides (once a traitor, always a traitor from the Fed side, or sold out the cause as far as the ex-Maquis are concerned). He could even have been seen by some people as a potential candidate to mutiny, overthrow Janeway and take over the ship, whether he ever intended to or not.

I disagree with you.
He did immediately show great loyalty to Janeway, but other then that you are wrong on all counts. In the beginning there were doubts and friction regarding him and the Maquis. Torres broke another officer's nose, there were discipline issues that Chakotay helped to resolve, two former Maquis became traitors, Tuvok made a simulation to prepare for a possible revolt.

[LibraryOgre]

As for Chakotay, well, that really shows how badly produced Voyager was - he should have been the link between the Federation and the Maquis crews, and to an extent taking flak from elements on both sides (once a traitor, always a traitor from the Fed side, or sold out the cause as far as the ex-Maquis are concerned). He could even have been seen by some people as a potential candidate to mutiny, overthrow Janeway and take over the ship, whether he ever intended to or not.

That was the plot of an entire episode... Tuvok wrote a simulation of a Maquis mutiny, and it starts with him approaching the crewman and feeling him out about it.

There was a later episode where 7 of 9 becomes somewhat paranoid, and presents to BOTH Chakotay and Janeway the same information, but presenting the other as a potential traitor.

[Cikomyr2]

Ok, it would be HORRIBLE Star Trek, but I admit to being amused at Will Riker playing Principal Belding.

I've said it before, but I think Star Trek started to go downhill at DS9... not because DS9 is bad (it very much is not), but because DS9 is where they shifted from "the ideals of the Federation" to realpolitik as a driving force. And while realpolitik makes great drama, it does not, IMO, make for good Star Trek. Voyager, in many ways, tried to get back to the ideals of the Federation, with our two principal Maquis cast members (Chakotay and Torres) being former Federation who return to the Federation's ideals under Janeway's guidance. But when you get to Enterprise, you move to realpolitik, with the Federation being in its infancy. Discovery has also tended towards realpolitik, as shown by the end of the 1st season. And that can be great science fiction, and great drama, but I think it is more limited Trek.

Ideally, Federation captains should be Paladins, devoted to the ideals of the Federation, and upholding them above all else. Increasingly, though, they've moved away from that, making the moral and ethical compromises that might push the story forward, but don't forward the Federation ideals.

I feel these ideals to be weak when they aren't challenged by a hard reality.

Holding on these ideals in adverse situation should be the morality tale. And DS9 showed that you could do your best to keep on the Federation belief, even when it's damn hard.

[Dire_Flumph]

That was the plot of an entire episode... Tuvok wrote a simulation of a Maquis mutiny, and it starts with him approaching the crewman and feeling him out about it.

I thought that episode was funny, because it admits that there really hasn't been any friction between the two crews and when asked why Tuvok even made the program in the first place he could have been speaking for me when he said basically "I thought this would be a bigger thing".

It's sad, but many of Voyager's best episodes were looks at alternate realities of what the show could have been.

[Rakaydos]

Some interesting plot elements in this thread.

A hologram crew, on a ship who's warp drive is lethal to barionic life has some interesting interactions.
Being able to travel to quarrenteened worlds, with the deadly warp drive sanitizing the ship between stops.
Organic passangers can only be transported inside the Transporter Buffer, and have no conception of time between stops.

Hmm.

Organic mission specialists who start each episode being released from the warp buffer, while hologram crew manage the ship in warp. That puts hologram crew front and center, and introduces a dichotomy between programs who "arnt real" and organic crew who simply dont exist until called on. And because the crew spends a lot of time not existing, along with the fancy warp 9 cruising speed, this ship does a lot of REALLY long range exploration, between episides, and able to jump back and forth between federation space and the deep frontier.

[Trafalgar]

I don't mind cameos. I actually liked the episode with Scotty in TNG and if the new show wanted to do an episode where we run into Captain Harry Kim and get to see what he's up to 30 years out I'm fine with that.


Now that I think about it, that episode and the TNG episodes with Spock were alright. So I lined out "No Cameos" from my earlier post.

I guess I need to think about what a decent cameo looks like versus a bad one.

[Rodin]

Now that I think about it, that episode and the TNG episodes with Spock were alright. So I lined out "No Cameos" from my earlier post.

I guess I need to think about what a decent cameo looks like versus a bad one.

A good contrast of good and bad character revisits can be found in Picard.

Riker and Troi were great to see again. They show up as people Picard trusts who can give him advice and emotional support. They don't affect the story much otherwise - Riker shows up at the end, but his presence is unnecessary for the resolution of the plot. We get the nostalgia factor while still keeping the story focus on Picard and Soji.

Hugh and Seven of Nine are bad revisits. Hugh is unnecessary and the way his character is used is...distasteful. Seven of Nine takes over the story for several episodes, pulling the focus away from the Romulan samurai dude whose story we're supposed to be following in those episodes.

Data is somewhere in the middle. There was some good stuff, there was some bad stuff. I liked it, but I can easily see how it would drive others crazy.

[Caledonian]

V-Ger returns.

We've had that already, in the Borg. Star Trek I is totally the origin of the Borg, I don't care what Enterprise suggested.

[russdm]

I think that i have had 3 star trek ideas that could work for a show

1) Captain Sean -- Sean Bean runs the ship

2) Basically what the plot of some of what the Star Trek Adventures X Expanse tabletop RPG was about. Starfleet crews exploring a new area of space that has colonized, but include Romulans as major enemies also freemenies, solely. Basically the feddies are going in an area that is claimed by the Rommies

3) Have a crew of cadets working on a ship (Oberth/Miranda class) who have been doing some make work when suddenly they get tossed to a part of space claimed by a trio of hostile powers and the cadets land on some neutral planet between the three. All three are also partially interested in or have heard of hte federation and especially federation technology, so they want that to improve their chances of destroying the other sides and becoming top dog. All 3 have legitimate and illegitimate issues with each other. The starfleet cadets (who have to figure out how to run the ship with officers because there are no others) must decide how to employ the power they have while dealing with how much they can keep federation rules.

4) have an exchange officer serve longer on a klingon ship and go off doing klingon style of exploring with glorious battles etc.

[Bohandas]

A) set post DS-9 and Voyager in the original timeline (the heck with the Abrams movies and their "Kelvan" timeline"),

B) faithful to the tone of TOS, and

C) on actual broadcast TV (the heck with CBS's attempts to use Trek to get us to subscribe to their streaming service).

This is basically what I was thinking too (EDIT: And I would add, as a addendum to B, that the show must be extremely episodic, like TOS, and TNG were. Furthermore, all drama should be related to the planet of the week and contained within the episode.)

EDIT:
Regarding point C, I would propose that the Abrams timeline be unmade completely via the retcon ray from The Year of Hell


I would prefer the Borg become a member of the Federation to be honest. Instead of forced assimilation joining is actually voluntary, the new Data is a borg. The borg believe assimilation is inevitable, so the philosophical movement is towards making the collective appealing to Federation citizens. All they have to do is wait and eventually everyone will become a member of the collective by choice.

Forcing people to follow your ideals always seemed like a shallow endorsement of them, as if the group doesn't really believe people will see the value of them. A peaceful Borg would highlight the difference ideals of individualism in the Federation, and give an excuse to have an outsider everything has to be explained to.

The thing about the borg is that they're not what they claim to be. They're just zombies. And its clear to everyone in the federation. If they weren't then the Bynar and the Trill would have joined them willingly.

[GloatingSwine]

This is basically what I was thinking too (EDIT: And I would add, as a addendum to B, that the show must be extremely episodic, like TOS, and TNG were. Furthermore, all drama should be related to the planet of the week and contained within the episode.)

Never get made.

Modern premium TV just will not do purely episodic storytelling outside of comedy. Because the big news (and the primetime emmys) are in serial stories these days.

Also, the tone of TOS is a product of the 1960s and the tone of TNG is a product of the 1980s/90s. Unless you invent a time machine and kidnap writers from those time periods you will not get a Star Trek show with those tones because it is no longer the 1960s or the 1990s. And nor should you because Star Trek is a forward looking show that comments on the times in which it is being made.

Star Trek is just as much about the now as it is about the future, and always has been, very deliberately.

[Trafalgar]

1) Captain Sean -- Sean Bean runs the ship



Who is Number One? We need to know who takes over when he dies at the end of the first season/ movie.

[Rakaydos]

Who is Number One? We need to know who takes over when he dies at the end of the first season/ movie.

Hey now. In The Martian he only got fired.

[Bohandas]

Star Trek is just as much about the now as it is about the future, and always has been, very deliberately.

You know, it's funny you bring that up, because I was thinking it would be cool if they did a show set in the past, specifically the Star Trek universe's version of the 1990's, where Khan Noonien Singh conquers a quarter of the earth before eventually being deposed. If they must do a non-episodic show, I think it should be about that.

[Peelee]

You know, it's funny you bring that up, because I was thinking it would be cool if they did a show set in the Star Trek universe's version of the 1990's, where Khan Noonien Singh conquers a quarter of the earth before eventually being deposed. If they must do a non-episodic show, I think it should be about that.

That sounds like something a super attractive and smart person would say.:smallamused:

Also, someone could always try to see if they could work in a series based around the Eugenics Wars and go back to the 1990s. That, I think, could be interesting.

[Tvtyrant]

The thing about the borg is that they're not what they claim to be. They're just zombies. And its clear to everyone in the federation. If they weren't then the Bynar and the Trill would have joined them willingly.
This doesn't just vary by show but from episodes within the same show. Seven of Nine at times is tempted back just because she misses being a borg, the borg in STNG swing back and forth on whether they like being individuals or not. In the end having a collective option versus an individual option leads to more room for discussion, so I prefer going that route.

[LibraryOgre]

This doesn't just vary by show but from episodes within the same show. Seven of Nine at times is tempted back just because she misses being a borg, the borg in STNG swing back and forth on whether they like being individuals or not. In the end having a collective option versus an individual option leads to more room for discussion, so I prefer going that route.

What mostly develops through TNG and VOY was that most borg like being part of A collective, but they don't necessarily like being part of THE Collective. You see several situations with ex-borg who create some sort of collective for themselves, but try to avoid the actual collective, which is very imperialist.

[Blackhawk748]

What mostly develops through TNG and VOY was that most borg like being part of A collective, but they don't necessarily like being part of THE Collective. You see several situations with ex-borg who create some sort of collective for themselves, but try to avoid the actual collective, which is very imperialist.

I would certainly be down for more Hugh and the Lore Collective. They seemed interesting.

As for episodicness... Eh, I rather liked DS9 and it's overarching plots, but I also feel that it did a good job mixing in X of the week stuff. I feel we should go back to that on some level because purely serial storytelling is omnipresent and some shake up would be good.

[JadedDM]

What mostly develops through TNG and VOY was that most borg like being part of A collective, but they don't necessarily like being part of THE Collective. You see several situations with ex-borg who create some sort of collective for themselves, but try to avoid the actual collective, which is very imperialist.

Like the Cooperative (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cooperative).

[dps]

Never get made.

Modern premium TV just will not do purely episodic storytelling outside of comedy. Because the big news (and the primetime emmys) are in serial stories these days.

Which one of the reasons why I said I want it on broadcast TV, not a premium channel or service.


Also, the tone of TOS is a product of the 1960s and the tone of TNG is a product of the 1980s/90s. Unless you invent a time machine and kidnap writers from those time periods you will not get a Star Trek show with those tones because it is no longer the 1960s or the 1990s. And nor should you because Star Trek is a forward looking show that comments on the times in which it is being made.

Star Trek is just as much about the now as it is about the future, and always has been, very deliberately.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by tone. I basically meant two things when I posted that. First, that I want it to show an optimistic, hopeful vision of the future, not some grim and dark crap. That doesn't mean that the Federation has to be perfect, but they should still overall be the good guys. And second, that while there certainly can and should be action in the show, it shouldn't simply be an action show.

[LibraryOgre]

Like the Cooperative (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cooperative).

Some of whom I was thinking of, in fact.

[Bohandas]

First, that I want it to show an optimistic, hopeful vision of the future, not some grim and dark crap.

Yeah. It's supposed to be Star Trek, not Warhammer 40000.

[Rodin]

I would certainly be down for more Hugh and the Lore Collective. They seemed interesting.

As for episodicness... Eh, I rather liked DS9 and it's overarching plots, but I also feel that it did a good job mixing in X of the week stuff. I feel we should go back to that on some level because purely serial storytelling is omnipresent and some shake up would be good.

DS9 is a bit weird. The writers wanted to do serial storytelling but didn't know how. The result is this weird mish-mash as they tried out differing styles. DS9 starts with the standard Star Trek style - purely episodic, with major events happening as season finales. The result is bizarre stuff like the Dominion declaring war and then being forgotten about for most of a season. Then they moved into extending the season finales into beginning and ending arcs for the season, with all the filler episodes jammed in the middle. That's how we go from a big war into Quark cross-dressing with little acknowledgement of how weird the tone shift is. Finally, they abandoned episodic structure altogether and did the final 7 or 8 episodes as one long stream of consciousness that blurs together. It's the progenitor of modern serial storytelling, but without understanding what makes it work.

DS9 was a product of its time, for better and worse. The shifting styles makes the show unique, but also opens gaping plot holes that are more than a little irritating.

[GloatingSwine]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by tone. I basically meant two things when I posted that. First, that I want it to show an optimistic, hopeful vision of the future, not some grim and dark crap. That doesn't mean that the Federation has to be perfect, but they should still overall be the good guys. And second, that while there certainly can and should be action in the show, it shouldn't simply be an action show.

That’s what I mean about it being about the current time though. TOS was optimistic a about the future because the 1960s were generally optimistic. (Especially wrt America’s view of itself within the world which is what informs the Federation)

The 2020s, well, aren’t.

[Peelee]

DS9 is a bit weird. The writers wanted to do serial storytelling but didn't know how.

Or maybe episodic shows were the style at the time and it was difficult to push through a purely serialized overarching storyline (in no small part because that requires every fan to watch every episode and not miss any, which networks likely believed would alienate viewers) so they were only allowed to do so in broader strokes and had to still have episodic storylines throughout.

I honestly have no idea either way, but that seems like a much simpler explanation than "professional writers don't know how to write professionally".

[Rodin]

Or maybe episodic shows were the style at the time and it was difficult to push through a purely serialized overarching storyline (in no small part because that requires every fan to watch every episode and not miss any, which networks likely believed would alienate viewers) so they were only allowed to do so in broader strokes and had to still have episodic storylines throughout.

I honestly have no idea either way, but that seems like a much simpler explanation than "professional writers don't know how to write professionally".

Likely some of column A and some of column B. The networks were restricting some things (when are they not), but the writing culture of the show would have been heavily focused on episodic storytelling. After all, it's what they were all used to. We're not simply talking about professional writers here - we're talking about professional TV scriptwriters. And like you said, episodic shows were the style at the time. How many of the DS9 writing crew had experience writing a plot that hangs together for an entire season, instead of a single episode or a two-parter?

My opinion that they didn't quite know what they were doing is mainly informed by the final season. They abandoned the episodic format for the final 8 episodes or so, and the result is...not good. There's nothing resembling modern structure in there. It's just stuff happening with the episodes starting and ending arbitrarily. Worf and Dax spend an eternity in a prison cell for no purpose. The Breen are introduced and then just as quickly rendered impotent. The build up to the conclusion of Sisko's story happens without him. Etc, etc.

There are a lot of glaring flaws in the story progression in the final season that were not present in the rest of the show. It makes me think that something happened behind the scenes to cause that, and the flaws coincide with the shift away from episodic storytelling.

[dps]

That’s what I mean about it being about the current time though. TOS was optimistic a about the future because the 1960s were generally optimistic. (Especially wrt America’s view of itself within the world which is what informs the Federation)

The 2020s, well, aren’t.

Doesn't sound to me like you were there in the 1960s.

[Ramza00]

Or maybe episodic shows were the style at the time and it was difficult to push through a purely serialized overarching storyline (in no small part because that requires every fan to watch every episode and not miss any, which networks likely believed would alienate viewers) so they were only allowed to do so in broader strokes and had to still have episodic storylines throughout.

I honestly have no idea either way, but that seems like a much simpler explanation than "professional writers don't know how to write professionally".

That is part of the charm of DS9 honestly. Sure I would like more 2, 3 and 6 episode arcs such as we got with the Season 5 finale and the start of Season 6.

But part of the charm of DS9 is it is not perfectly serialized, and that there are both high and low moments in the cold war conflict that became hot war with the Dominion while simultaneously dealing with Bajoran problems (there could be a civil war, and what happened was not a civil war but several conflicts over who would be Space Pope), and low to high war tensions with Cardassia a larger nation / empire with which Bajor shares a boarder, a conflict where there was an occupation and no peace treaty, no cease fire, just one side realizing it was no longer profitable to occupy that area, but there was still debates and tensions over who had which borders until Season 3 when the peace treaty occurs.

Yadda, Yadda, Yadda my point is the characters inside the story do not know what is going to happen next and that is part of the charm of DS9. When you set out to make serialized television you are TELLING the viewer there is going to be an arc and thus the viewer anticipates specific types of stories prior to them being told. Well part of the charm of DS9 is the characters do not know if now, 3 weeks from now, 3 months from now, a year from now, 3 years from now whether there will be war or peace. They have to live their lives like all people do in that nexus of places, their home, which suddenly may become a war zone. There is no escape, only the possibility of living, and the possibility of war.

This can be charming or it can be the worse type of stressful hell depending on ones perspective and DS9 makes it fun! :smalltongue:


Doesn't sound to me like you were there in the 1960s.

Nods, sitcoms, but also Star Trek the Original, TNG, DS9, etc are partly a response to the culture of their times. These type of television are critiquing the present and possible future.

Much like how The Twilight Zone is about how certain type of family and work relationships sound like a good idea at first but they can become creepy / spooky / monkey's paw. Or Black Mirror is like more of this phone thing until it becomes a horror.

Sitcoms critique the present in different ways than The Twilight Zone or Black Mirror but the critique is there. Likewise Animated Shows like The Simpsons in the 80s and 90s, and now a days Bojack Horseman and Rick and Morty.

Well Star Trek TOS was hopeful precisely because people were not hopeful yet the raw ingredients of a better world still existed in the present, they merely need to be arranged in a different way. The 60s was kind of a stressful time in their own way. All time is like that just different ways how it is stressful.

[Blackhawk748]

DS9 is a bit weird. The writers wanted to do serial storytelling but didn't know how. The result is this weird mish-mash as they tried out differing styles. DS9 starts with the standard Star Trek style - purely episodic, with major events happening as season finales. The result is bizarre stuff like the Dominion declaring war and then being forgotten about for most of a season. Then they moved into extending the season finales into beginning and ending arcs for the season, with all the filler episodes jammed in the middle. That's how we go from a big war into Quark cross-dressing with little acknowledgement of how weird the tone shift is. Finally, they abandoned episodic structure altogether and did the final 7 or 8 episodes as one long stream of consciousness that blurs together. It's the progenitor of modern serial storytelling, but without understanding what makes it work.

DS9 was a product of its time, for better and worse. The shifting styles makes the show unique, but also opens gaping plot holes that are more than a little irritating.

Honestly the Dominion declaring war and then doing very little didn't actually feel super weird to me. Probably because real Wars can do odd stuff like that too. But you;re right, DS9 was like Babylon 5, the beginning of full blown serial storytelling, its just that Babylon 5 did it better.

Still, I liked the mish mash and Dr Who kinda proves you can work that way


That’s what I mean about it being about the current time though. TOS was optimistic a about the future because the 1960s were generally optimistic. (Especially wrt America’s view of itself within the world which is what informs the Federation)

The 2020s, well, aren’t.

And? Doesn't mean that ST can't go back to being optimistic instead of year another "Nihilistic The World and Humans suck" fest.

Seriously, nihilism isn't edgy or interesting anymore, its just annoying.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
…because the 1960s were generally optimistic.

Reading the history of the 60s, they hardly seem that way, although specific examples can’t be discussed here.

It’s fair to say that the 1960s were awash in technological optimism, at least in some quarters, with the belief that science and technology could be harnessed to create a better world. Many of the most inventive concepts for interstellar exploration were first developed in the 60s, from the Bussard ramjet to Project Daedalus and beamed-energy propulsion, as well as high-frontier concepts like O'Neill cylinders.

But down on the ground the 60s were far less rosy, again for reasons we probably can’t get into here. In one of the time-travel episodes from TOS, Kirk meets a young woman who says people of her generation weren’t sure they’d live to be thirty, which is a fair reflection of some of the fears of the time.

As Ramza alluded to, Roddenberry created TOS to help show a future beyond the chaos and uncertainty that people were living in the 60s—a future which showed how some of the best ideals of the time might be embodied. Trek was entertaining, sure, but it was so popular because it offered people hope when they needed it.


Originally Posted by Rodin
My opinion that they didn't quite know what they were doing is mainly informed by the final season.

Sometimes I wish that people who claim experienced professional writers “don’t know what they’re doing” would first post their own camera-ready pilot script and series bible.

There are always factors and constraints to producing a series which have nothing to do with the supposed incompetence of writers and staff. Episodes aren’t always shot in their final airing order, budgets are always an overriding concern, and heavy-handed executive decisions can twist a show inside-out. At the best of times it’s a frenetic mess to get a season filmed, and claiming that any resulting discontinuities are somehow only the writers’ fault isn’t remotely fair to the writers.

[Peelee]

Sometimes I wish that people who claim experienced professional writers “don’t know what they’re doing” would first post their own camera-ready pilot script and series bible.

While I understand the sentiment, the skills to be a good critic and the skills to be a good screenwriter are not necessarily the same.

[Tvtyrant]

Sometimes I wish that people who claim experienced professional writers “don’t know what they’re doing” would first post their own camera-ready pilot script and series bible.

There are always factors and constraints to producing a series which have nothing to do with the supposed incompetence of writers and staff. Episodes aren’t always shot in their final airing order, budgets are always an overriding concern, and heavy-handed executive decisions can twist a show inside-out. At the best of times it’s a frenetic mess to get a season filmed, and claiming that any resulting discontinuities are somehow only the writers’ fault isn’t remotely fair to the writers.

I find it funny this only comes up in media discussions. "Sometimes I wish that people who claim experienced architects "don't know what they're doing" would first post their own blue prints and credentials."

Meanwhile everyone can see the cracks and structural issues with the house. Yeah media's hard, so are all careers. You don't get a pass if the product is bad, the house stands up or not.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant
Yeah media's hard, so are all careers. You don't get a pass if the product is bad, the house stands up or not.

Except sometimes the people who pour the foundations aren't the ones who skimped on the roofing. Different groups of professionals work on the product at different times, and a perceived flaw in one area shouldn't be blamed on people who worked on another part of the structure.

And I don't buy the argument that people who don't write are somehow the best critics. You can't provide informed critique if you don't have an understanding of the craft and the industry.

[Peelee]

And I don't buy the argument that people who don't write are somehow the best critics.

Neither do I, and I would argue against anyone who made such a claim.

[Tvtyrant]

Except sometimes the people who pour the foundations aren't the ones who skimped on the roofing. Different groups of professionals work on the product at different times, and a perceived flaw in one area shouldn't be blamed on people who worked on another part of the structure.

And I don't buy the argument that people who don't write are somehow the best critics. You can't provide informed critique if you don't have an understanding of the craft and the industry.

If they were doing it for love of the craft and showing it at indy films maybe. If it's made to turn a buck as part of mass distribution it has to cater to audiences, they are the ones paying for it. Yeah maybe corporate messed it up, but the writer still wrote a bad product and failed to get it to look like their client's vision in a market where lots of other writers have succeeded.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant
Yeah maybe corporate messed it up, but the writer still wrote a bad product and failed to get it to look like their client's vision in a market where lots of other writers have succeeded.

For comparison, look at what happened to Firefly, with episodes which were intended to be watched in sequence, but which were scrambled in their air dates and repeatedly preempted by baseball games, of all things. Those are decisions the writers can’t do anything about.

Is the final product affected? Yes, drastically so, enough to force an early cancellation. But in no way is that the fault of the writers, and certainly doesn’t support claims that the writers didn’t know what they’re doing. This was not in any way a "bad product" from the writers--it was an excellent product crippled by factors beyond their control.

[Tvtyrant]

For comparison, look at what happened to Firefly, with episodes which were intended to be watched in sequence, but which were scrambled in their air dates and repeatedly preempted by baseball games, of all things. Those are decisions the writers can’t do anything about.

Is the final product affected? Yes, drastically so, enough to force an early cancellation. But in no way is that the fault of the writers, and certainly doesn’t support claims that the writers didn’t know what they’re doing. This was not in any way a "bad product" from the writers--it was an excellent product crippled by factors beyond their control.

And they knew that was a possibility because that is how TV works, and they made them sequential anyway. Exactly like the house example; if an architect makes a perfectly nice flat roof house and stick it in the Oregon Rain Forest and the roof collapses, and they knew it was going in the rain forest it is on the architect for designing the wrong house. Whedon had years of experience in TV doing that exact thing, Firefly failed because he hoped his popularity would let him force the executives to do what he wanted instead of what he was hired to do.

[Bohandas]

Or maybe episodic shows were the style at the time and it was difficult to push through a purely serialized overarching storyline (in no small part because that requires every fan to watch every episode and not miss any, which networks likely believed would alienate viewers

Not believed, knew. This was before streaming services and video on demand

[Peelee]

Not believed, knew. This was before streaming services and video on demand

But after VCRs. That's why I dialed back a bit there.


Firefly failed because he hoped his popularity would let him force the executives to do what he wanted instead of what he was hired to do.

I'd put my money on Firefly failing because Fox aired episodes out of order, in different time slots, on different days, with little advertising.

Clerks TAS suffered a similar problem, except even more extreme.

[Dire_Flumph]

I'd put Firefly's failure on FOX advertising and executive shenanigans before placing the episodes out of order. I watched Firefly when it aired and thought "The Train Job" did an adequate job of setting up the characters (apparently it was retooled after the networks told Bad Robot they weren't going to air the pilot) and I didn't have any trouble following the story afterwards.

But look at this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1iWbgQUpRo) and tell me if that's anything you'd want to watch unless you were like me at the time and gave every sci fi show on TV at least a chance. And that's about as much push as I ever saw FOX give the show.

[Peelee]

I'd put Firefly's failure on FOX advertising and executive shenanigans before placing the episodes out of order. I watched Firefly when it aired and thought "The Train Job" did an adequate job of setting up the characters (apparently it was retooled after the networks told Bad Robot they weren't going to air the pilot) and I didn't have any trouble following the story afterwards.

But look at this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1iWbgQUpRo) and tell me if that's anything you'd want to watch unless you were like me at the time and gave every sci fi show on TV at least a chance. And that's about as much push as I ever saw FOX give the show.

Holy hell that's terrible. I remember around the time it was on, my best friend told me he loved it (that and John Doe, which he had rather choice words about regarding the season 1/series finale cliffhanger, and even more choice words once I found out how the overall storyline was supposed to go a couple years back and let him know), and I, based on what few radio ads I'd heard of it at the time, thought it was about an arsonist or something. It's now one of my favorite shows, naturally.

So yeah. They really didn't put any effort into advertising it.

[Kitten Champion]

Holy hell that's terrible. I remember around the time it was on, my best friend told me he loved it (that and John Doe, which he had rather choice words about regarding the season 1/series finale cliffhanger, and even more choice words once I found out how the overall storyline was supposed to go a couple years back and let him know), and, based on what few radio ads I'd heard of it at the time, thought it was about an arsonist or something. It's now one of my favorite shows, naturally.

So yeah. They really didn't put any effort into advertising it.

Huh, I had forgotten John Doe.

*Looks it up on Wikipedia*

That's just terrible. Like, if you're going to go with a cliffhanger where a key supporting cast member turns out to be a villain then don't immediately wuss-out and make him a Doombot, that's just so cheap.

Also, him having supreme cosmic awareness because of a near-death experience after a boating accident might work if you made the show like John Travolta's Phenomenon, but it'd feel pretty underwhelming payoff in a science fiction series about warring secret cults and big mysteries.

[Peelee]

Huh, I had forgotten John Doe.

*Looks it up on Wikipedia*

That's just terrible. Like, if you're going to go with a cliffhanger where a key supporting cast member turns out to be a villain then don't immediately wuss-out and make him a Doombot, that's just so cheap.

Also, him having supreme cosmic awareness because of a near-death experience after a boating accident might work if you made the show like John Travolta's Phenomenon, but it'd feel pretty underwhelming payoff in a science fiction series about warring secret cults and big mysteries.

I was kind of hoping that my commentary would ward off fans of that show, but alas. I'd add a warning for other people who liked it to not look it up, but if they've read this far, it's a bit too late.

[Kitten Champion]

I was kind of hoping that my commentary would ward off fans of that show, but alas. I'd add a warning for other people who liked it to not look it up, but if they've read this far, it's a bit too late.

It was a one season show on Fox of which I can barely recall a single episode, so I'm not exactly a disillusioned John Doe mega-fan. However, despite that, I actually vividly remembered the season finale's ending shocking twist reveal and was genuinely intrigued where they were going to go with it.

It's like the Agent Ward twist on Agents of SHIELD, which was the highlight of that season. Only AoS actually ran with that and worked to make Ward a series long-time villain, John Doe was just going to go with what was essentially the "he's actually an evil identical twin" route like a cheesy soap opera.

[Peelee]

It was a one season show on Fox of which I can barely recall a single episode, so I'm not exactly a disillusioned John Doe mega-fan. However, despite that, I actually vividly remembered the season finale's ending shocking twist reveal and was genuinely intrigued where they were going to go with it.

It's like the Agent Ward twist on Agents of SHIELD, which was the highlight of that season. Only AoS actually ran with that and worked to make Ward a series long-time villain, John Doe was just going to go with what was essentially the "he's actually an evil identical twin" route like a cheesy soap opera.
I'd like to rewatch it but no streaming service has it and I can't evert rent/buy off Amazon.

Still no interest in Agents of Shield, of course.

[BeerMug Paladin]

In regards to the optimism of the 1960s, it seems to me if anything, that science fiction used to have a general trend of being rather optimistic about the future. In my view, it's almost a natural consequence of just deciding that the future is space travel and colonizing other planets. The new frontier is as inevitable as the date on the calendar advancing forwards. Science will naturally, solve all the other problems too as our civilization develops.

It seems to me that many science fiction writers in the early to mid 20th century focused on the idea that we could leave Earth and with it, leave many of our own problems behind (or render them as issues that can be easily ignored because of other issues having a frontier to colonize brings us). Now that leaving Earth doesn't appear possible and it's apparent we're stuck on this planet (and with ourselves) forever, the trend to portray futures where such things can happen has somewhat diminished in favor of cyberpunk dystopia.

Now the almost default vision of the future is as much exemplified by social rot as much as technological advancement. In the future, we'll be living on a corpse of a planet we cannot truly escape. Beyond Earth, there's nothing for us to find in the universe but a brutal, cold emptiness. Meanwhile, the fumes of progress sputter out as we kill our best selves. Knowing for all time that we and we alone, are collectively choosing annihilation.

Maybe I'm just imagining the trend based on my limited perspective. I certainly don't have a complete picture of all fiction in any decade prior, let alone our current one. It just seems to me that science fiction has lost the idea of a savage frontier (for several good reasons), and with that loss there is nowhere left to go but inwards. We have to go deeper.

Oh, and just in case someone cries foul, me pointing this out is not an endorsement of saying that Star Trek ought to be changed to become a cyberpunk dystopia setting. Though advancing the calendar 100 years from the TNG-era could justify such a change and would make a whole lot more sense than trying any direct sequel or prequel series with a modern tone. It probably would make a lot more sense to do this than almost any notion of returning to classic form.

[Rodin]

In regards to the optimism of the 1960s, it seems to me if anything, that science fiction used to have a general trend of being rather optimistic about the future. In my view, it's almost a natural consequence of just deciding that the future is space travel and colonizing other planets. The new frontier is as inevitable as the date on the calendar advancing forwards. Science will naturally, solve all the other problems too as our civilization develops.

It seems to me that many science fiction writers in the early to mid 20th century focused on the idea that we could leave Earth and with it, leave many of our own problems behind (or render them as issues that can be easily ignored because of other issues having a frontier to colonize brings us). Now that leaving Earth doesn't appear possible and it's apparent we're stuck on this planet (and with ourselves) forever, the trend to portray futures where such things can happen has somewhat diminished in favor of cyberpunk dystopia.

Now the almost default vision of the future is as much exemplified by social rot as much as technological advancement. In the future, we'll be living on a corpse of a planet we cannot truly escape. Beyond Earth, there's nothing for us to find in the universe but a brutal, cold emptiness. Meanwhile, the fumes of progress sputter out as we kill our best selves. Knowing for all time that we and we alone, are collectively choosing annihilation.

Maybe I'm just imagining the trend based on my limited perspective. I certainly don't have a complete picture of all fiction in any decade prior, let alone our current one. It just seems to me that science fiction has lost the idea of a savage frontier (for several good reasons), and with that loss there is nowhere left to go but inwards. We have to go deeper.

Oh, and just in case someone cries foul, me pointing this out is not an endorsement of saying that Star Trek ought to be changed to become a cyberpunk dystopia setting. Though advancing the calendar 100 years from the TNG-era could justify such a change and would make a whole lot more sense than trying any direct sequel or prequel series with a modern tone. It probably would make a lot more sense to do this than almost any notion of returning to classic form.

Pretty good take I'd say. It's hard to imagine society becoming TOS or TNG when the last 30 years can be summed up as "Shadowrun is not a manual!"

[GloatingSwine]

Reading the history of the 60s, they hardly seem that way, although specific examples can’t be discussed here.

It’s fair to say that the 1960s were awash in technological optimism, at least in some quarters, with the belief that science and technology could be harnessed to create a better world. Many of the most inventive concepts for interstellar exploration were first developed in the 60s, from the Bussard ramjet to Project Daedalus and beamed-energy propulsion, as well as high-frontier concepts like O'Neill cylinders.

But down on the ground the 60s were far less rosy, again for reasons we probably can’t get into here. In one of the time-travel episodes from TOS, Kirk meets a young woman who says people of her generation weren’t sure they’d live to be thirty, which is a fair reflection of some of the fears of the time.

As Ramza alluded to, Roddenberry created TOS to help show a future beyond the chaos and uncertainty that people were living in the 60s—a future which showed how some of the best ideals of the time might be embodied. Trek was entertaining, sure, but it was so popular because it offered people hope when they needed it.


On the other hand, in the context when TOS was made the world was breathing a sigh of relief after cooler heads had prevailed in the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy had directed the nation's attentions towards space by promising to land on the moon by the end of the decade, and the Civil Rights Act had been signed into law. Hell the Summer of Love was right in the middle of its run.

It was possible to think that the problems of now would be solved in the future because there was direct evidence that people could start becoming better. It was also possible to imagine, as Star Trek does, a fundamentally American future.

The late '80s and early '90s were the last time an honest person could think that, because the problems we started knowing about then, and still haven't fixed, are ones that we had to start working on then and didn't (Climate Change) and it turned out that some of the problems we thought we were making progress on haven't gotten as far as we thought they had.

Instead of the future solving the problems of the now, we live in a world where the now has to solve the problems of the future. And it isn't.

So anyone taking enough interest in how the future is going to look to write something that can honestly call iteself Star Trek (and particularly the American future of Star Trek) is not going to see a lot of optimism there.

[Blackhawk748]

On the other hand, in the context when TOS was made the world was breathing a sigh of relief after cooler heads had prevailed in the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy had directed the nation's attentions towards space by promising to land on the moon by the end of the decade, and the Civil Rights Act had been signed into law. Hell the Summer of Love was right in the middle of its run.

It was possible to think that the problems of now would be solved in the future because there was direct evidence that people could start becoming better. It was also possible to imagine, as Star Trek does, a fundamentally American future.

The late '80s and early '90s were the last time an honest person could think that, because the problems we started knowing about then, and still haven't fixed, are ones that we had to start working on then and didn't (Climate Change) and it turned out that some of the problems we thought we were making progress on haven't gotten as far as we thought they had.

Instead of the future solving the problems of the now, we live in a world where the now has to solve the problems of the future. And it isn't.

So anyone taking enough interest in how the future is going to look to write something that can honestly call iteself Star Trek (and particularly the American future of Star Trek) is not going to see a lot of optimism there.

Everything you just said is why it should be optimistic. Hell, the TOS did it too. Ya the event didn't happen, but they were still living under imminent threat of nuclear annihilation and Roddenbury decided to be optimistic about the future. Star Wars did this to an extent too.

Sometimes you need to shine a light of optimism in the sea of nihilism that seems to pervade everywhere.

[Peelee]

Lower Decks seems to be raising in quality some after the last couple episodes.

[Lord Raziere]

Everything you just said is why it should be optimistic. Hell, the TOS did it too. Ya the event didn't happen, but they were still living under imminent threat of nuclear annihilation and Roddenbury decided to be optimistic about the future. Star Wars did this to an extent too.

Sometimes you need to shine a light of optimism in the sea of nihilism that seems to pervade everywhere.

I wonder if you can get something good out inverting the usual cryogenic freeze trope, by making a show about a cryogenically frozen modern cynical person who wakes up in an idealistic future like Star Trek and keeps expecting it to be dystopian, but keeps being proven wrong, and thus it becomes a show about overcoming one's own negativity.

[Radar]

I wonder if you can get something good out inverting the usual cryogenic freeze trope, by making a show about a cryogenically frozen modern cynical person who wakes up in an idealistic future like Star Trek and keeps expecting it to be dystopian, but keeps being proven wrong, and thus it becomes a show about overcoming one's own negativity.
Interesting idea, but for a short series at most as this kind of topic cannot be dragged arbitrarily long or at least should not. Sounds a bit like a road movie but not necessarily including that much travel.

[LibraryOgre]

I wonder if you can get something good out inverting the usual cryogenic freeze trope, by making a show about a cryogenically frozen modern cynical person who wakes up in an idealistic future like Star Trek and keeps expecting it to be dystopian, but keeps being proven wrong, and thus it becomes a show about overcoming one's own negativity.

They had a episode of TNG that dealt with this... a few people from the 21st century who got woken up.

You might find it easier to do an inverse Voyager... someone from the Delta Quadrant being introduced to the Federation. Like, may Ceska's part-Kazon child? Trying to integrate into Starfleet after living among the Kazon would give you some "fish out of water" perspective, without needing to be the point of view character, and without needing to make it central to the ongoing story.

[Bohandas]

I wonder if you can get something good out inverting the usual cryogenic freeze trope, by making a show about a cryogenically frozen modern cynical person who wakes up in an idealistic future like Star Trek and keeps expecting it to be dystopian, but keeps being proven wrong, and thus it becomes a show about overcoming one's own negativity.

I would watch that

[Peelee]

They had a episode of TNG that dealt with this... a few people from the 21st century who got woken up.

I remember that. Power suit guy didn't even have boneitis.

[Bohandas]

Now the almost default vision of the future is as much exemplified by social rot as much as technological advancement. In the future, we'll be living on a corpse of a planet we cannot truly escape. Beyond Earth, there's nothing for us to find in the universe but a brutal, cold emptiness. Meanwhile, the fumes of progress sputter out as we kill our best selves. Knowing for all time that we and we alone, are collectively choosing annihilation.

But that's not Star Trek.

That's just slapping an established name on something that it has nothing to do with, which is why so many remakes and reboots are utter garbage, and is also what ruined Star Wars

[Ramza00]

But that's not Star Trek.

That's just slapping an established name on something that it has nothing to do with, which is why so many remakes and reboots are utter garbage, and is also what ruined Star Wars

Yep there is a reason why The Original Series dealt with god like beings so often. Certain stories starting with the Baroque time period, than became Romanticism, that became Gothicism, that became Lovecraftian Horror emphasis human beings are so small in this universe and we are powerless.


Lovecraftian Horror takes this idea and says there are cosmic gods that are so powerful and so strange we are ants to them and thus we should always have fear and horror. This is important but let’s pause this idea and tell two simultaneously stories, two ways to read the same story with different perspectives.

But let go back a few steps to the Baroque art movement. The Baroque art movement in physical art, literature, music, etc evolved from the Renaissance art period. There is no massive dividing line between Renaissance Art and Baroque. It was a gradual transition, a gradient shift.

Baroque comes from a word that means irregular and misshapen pearl. Baroque / baroco is sometimes described as “bizarre and uselessly complicated” and often has themes of complexity, confusion, excess and sometimes magic / paranormal. It is exploring the unknown and showing mankind’s relationship with these larger forces. While Renaissance Art often focused there is this divine proportion such as the various body ratios and the ratios of man such as Da Vinci Vitruvian Man, Baroque / Baroco plays with larger scales and situates man in relationship with things far larger than man.

One of the reasons for this gradual shifts in art was things like science and specifically the Copernican Revolution. The earth is no longer the center of the universe, we orbit the sun, and perhaps the sun orbits things larger still. Likewise there were all these political and religious changes from the 1550s to the 1750s (remember this is a gradual transition so the dates are disagreed upon and they really do not matter with specific numbers.)

—————


So Lovercraft emphasis the horror and awe aspects of this world view. If we are not the center of the universe, if we are ants and there are larger things that are indifferent to us, let alone will prey on us, is there any hope?

Star Trek has an alternative formulation.

Person A The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control.
Person B What is that?
Person A Whether we explore or not? As long as we got each other’s backs we can tackle anything, we got our crew, and through exploration we learn more about ourselves!


(:smalltongue: What you thought I was going to quote DS9 ? (Sisko and the wormhole aliens in the DS9 pilot.) Nope I was talking about the 60s and TOS so might as well borrow half a line read from another sci fi exploration show :smallwink: )

Fear vs Excitement? Fear vs Faith? Faith is not looking for answers in godlike beings but instead the things which make us humans and that is our social connections, our social relationships.

[dps]

On the other hand, in the context when TOS was made the world was breathing a sigh of relief after cooler heads had prevailed in the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy had directed the nation's attentions towards space by promising to land on the moon by the end of the decade, and the Civil Rights Act had been signed into law. Hell the Summer of Love was right in the middle of its run.

It was possible to think that the problems of now would be solved in the future because there was direct evidence that people could start becoming better. It was also possible to imagine, as Star Trek does, a fundamentally American future.

The late '80s and early '90s were the last time an honest person could think that, because the problems we started knowing about then, and still haven't fixed, are ones that we had to start working on then and didn't (Climate Change) and it turned out that some of the problems we thought we were making progress on haven't gotten as far as we thought they had.

Instead of the future solving the problems of the now, we live in a world where the now has to solve the problems of the future. And it isn't.

So anyone taking enough interest in how the future is going to look to write something that can honestly call iteself Star Trek (and particularly the American future of Star Trek) is not going to see a lot of optimism there.

I would tend to disagree with much of this, but that would be taking us into areas we can't go on this forum, so I'll simply say that I was around in the 1960s, and though I was just a small child then, I can tell you that despite nostalgia for the era, things are better now than they were--we've made progress, which is why I'm still optimistic about the future and leave it at that.

[Tyrant]

Interesting discussion so far. I agree with the sentiment that Star Trek should be largely optimistic. It can take the dark detours now and then. Maybe even limited series that show less optimistic takes. But overall, it should be hopeful.

I've noticed a number of scenarios mentioned ignore Picard. I'm wondering if very many here have watched it or if they just didn't care for it? I would probably ignore it if I were making a new series. I also agree that a new series probably needs to be post Voyager, though I wouldn't go very far after (or no more than the amount of real world time that has passed). I'm also not opposed to cameos or even characters drifting over from past series. I also think leaning more towards episodic is the way to go. You can have an overarching plot that takes a while to unfold, but episodic seems to be a better fit for Trek (IMHO). I have TNG or DS9 on in the background a lot. I don't really ever see doing that with Discovery or Picard.

Some general questions for you guys:
For all of these, assume that money and time aren't big concerns. The ideas would need to pan out financially, but someone has given you free reign to implement your ideas. So don't worry about what CBS would okay is essentially what I am saying.

1) Do you think it would be best to make one new show, or multiple new shows?

I really like the academy idea that was brought up. And the idea of a ship patrolling a certain sector. And also the idea of a ship/crew who's job is to help species integrate into the Federation. Why not have them all in different shows set at the same time? If they go long enough, have characters from the Academy show eventually make their way onto another show.

2) Do you think there is room for limited series?

Do any new shows have to be multiple seasons, or can a limited series here and there to cover something in detail be of use? Supposing the overall theme of optimism were actually embraced, why not have a limited series about Section 31? Just as a for instance.

3) What about a show or limited series from a non-Federation standpoint?

I know this probably goes against the optimism ideal (because it is almost inevitable that whoever this is about will interact with the Federation, who will either be seen as devils or saviors), but I think it could have merit to explore some of the other cultures.

Me personally, I wouldn't go outside the Milky Way. I wouldn't increase the speed or reach. I would probably also ignore the collapse of the Romulan Empire. I would set the shows 20-30 years after Voyager. Going with the above, I would go with multiple shows that explore some of these ideas and occasionally cross over (or at least be mentioned). One focus would probably be the ramifications of the destruction (and presumably the reconstruction) of Cardassia. Show how the Federation is trying to help them rebuild. The DMZ is a thing of the past. Now the Maquis have to reintegrate. Maybe some Cardassian worlds have joined the Federation? Maybe their government is still trying to find the balance between peaceful and militaristic. This is probably where an occasional Keira cameo would factor in as she tries to help them down a more peaceful path.

One thing I would like to see is the other races that live within the borders of the other Empires. Do we ever see anyone else within the Romulan Empire other than the Romulans and the Remans? Surely there are others. Likewise with the Klingons. We know the Cardassians have at least one planet with humans on it.

[Bohandas]

I kind of think a project like this would be run best by someone who usually writes and directs parody movies (like Keenen Ivory Wayans or Mel Brooks) Not because it should be funny, but because it they would have experience aping the styles of other writers and directors. This would allow the creation of a Star Trek that resembles Star Trek, and not a Star Trek that resembles Star Trek (2009) (or worse, Enterprise)

EDIT:
Whoever directs should walk onto the set each day in-character as Joseph Pevney

[Rodin]

Interesting discussion so far. I agree with the sentiment that Star Trek should be largely optimistic. It can take the dark detours now and then. Maybe even limited series that show less optimistic takes. But overall, it should be hopeful.

I've noticed a number of scenarios mentioned ignore Picard. I'm wondering if very many here have watched it or if they just didn't care for it? I would probably ignore it if I were making a new series. I also agree that a new series probably needs to be post Voyager, though I wouldn't go very far after (or no more than the amount of real world time that has passed). I'm also not opposed to cameos or even characters drifting over from past series. I also think leaning more towards episodic is the way to go. You can have an overarching plot that takes a while to unfold, but episodic seems to be a better fit for Trek (IMHO). I have TNG or DS9 on in the background a lot. I don't really ever see doing that with Discovery or Picard.



I don't think you'd have to ignore it. The only limiting factors are how that show treats androids and how it confirms the destruction of Romulus already established by Star Trek XI. It's otherwise a self-contained story and if you're focusing on the Enterprise F (G?) on the other side of the Federation then none of the stuff in Picard would impact that. It's a pretty self-contained story.


1) Do you think it would be best to make one new show, or multiple new shows?

I really like the academy idea that was brought up. And the idea of a ship patrolling a certain sector. And also the idea of a ship/crew who's job is to help species integrate into the Federation. Why not have them all in different shows set at the same time? If they go long enough, have characters from the Academy show eventually make their way onto another show.


Depends on the funding. If money is not an object, why not multiple? In reality, money would be a concern, in which case focusing the cash on one show would be superior. You could still probably get away with one live action show and one animated series, since animated series tend to have lower budgets to start with.


2) Do you think there is room for limited series?

Do any new shows have to be multiple seasons, or can a limited series here and there to cover something in detail be of use? Supposing the overall theme of optimism were actually embraced, why not have a limited series about Section 31? Just as a for instance.

I think Picard demonstrates that you can do a limited series. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I found it quite enjoyable for what it was. Picard is the limited series with the less optimistic take, or at least as un-optimistic as I care for Star Trek to get. Trying out ideas in single season stories is how you would find out what a modern Star Trek audience would like. It also allows for more focused stories that don't have to deal with a huge cast signing on for 5-10 years.


3) What about a show or limited series from a non-Federation standpoint?

I know this probably goes against the optimism ideal (because it is almost inevitable that whoever this is about will interact with the Federation, who will either be seen as devils or saviors), but I think it could have merit to explore some of the other cultures.

Difficult. Star Trek is typically set within the Federation because the characters and culture are human. Setting a show entirely outside the Federation risks alienating the audience. Quite literally.

[Bohandas]

A thought occurs.....

If people do want to do a dystopian Star Trek, why not just set it in the evil parallel universe from Mirror Mirror?

[BeerMug Paladin]

How about having a Federation captain from the TOS era gets unfrozen in a way later era, like the 45th century, where the Federation has completely collapsed and humans are isolated, scattered and rare throughout the galaxy, often ruled over by different empires that has sprung up and established their own borders in the meantime.

Naturally, they assume that the Federation needs to be rebuilt. To help establish good principles and peaceful coexistence throughout the galaxy.

Over the course of the series, they slowly discover that although the Federation is gone, it has left a considerable influence on the various empires that have risen after its collapse. So although the various empires that exist are definitely not the Federation, they're not as different from the Federation as the living-fossil just initially assumed they would have been. The empires can become better and may in fact already be much closer in ideals to the old Federation than the main character ever thought they could have been.

This would be the "learning to overcome their own negativity" idea mixed with the "focus on non-human society" idea.

It would need to be a very limited run (maybe just a single movie in length) and it would present some darker elements due to featuring a major societal collapse. But it would be rather optimistic because it would present the idea that even though the Federation is dead and gone, it doesn't mean the ideals it stood for don't live on without it. In short, all things die, but that fact doesn't mean that having existed at all was always pointless. Yeah, probably not something the fans would like.

[zlefin]

All this talk led me to think of an idea:
Prime Directive Review Committee,
a cerebral and philosophical series that centers on the committee, looking over various scenarios that have occurred, the outcomes, and to what degree exceptions should be made to the prime directive, whether it should be amended, etc. Ideally using all new scenarios rather than the ones that came up in the other series. Based on the existing series it seems clear there are enough cases of the directive being 'violated' that making up new cases wouldn't be jarring.
At least one person on the committee would favor a more interventionist approach.
Probably best as 1-2 seasons.

[LibraryOgre]

All this talk led me to think of an idea:
Prime Directive Review Committee,
a cerebral and philosophical series that centers on the committee, looking over various scenarios that have occurred, the outcomes, and to what degree exceptions should be made to the prime directive, whether it should be amended, etc. Ideally using all new scenarios rather than the ones that came up in the other series. Based on the existing series it seems clear there are enough cases of the directive being 'violated' that making up new cases wouldn't be jarring.
At least one person on the committee would favor a more interventionist approach.
Probably best as 1-2 seasons.

I like this. It would let you get a wide variety of scenarios and actors ("Hey, who in the SAG wants to do a one-shot on Star Trek as a captain that broke the rules?"), and you could have your action sequences where they broke the PD for various reasons and in various ways... but your ongoing story could be contained within the series regulars. Set it at the right time, and you can even have cameos from different alumni. What if Captain Laforge comes before the committee, either as a witness or as a defendant? Or Admiral Janeway (does Kate Mulgrew want to be a member of the committee)? Professor Chakotay, who is talking about the archaeological impact of a captain's actions?

[Rakaydos]

I like this. It would let you get a wide variety of scenarios and actors ("Hey, who in the SAG wants to do a one-shot on Star Trek as a captain that broke the rules?"), and you could have your action sequences where they broke the PD for various reasons and in various ways... but your ongoing story could be contained within the series regulars. Set it at the right time, and you can even have cameos from different alumni. What if Captain Laforge comes before the committee, either as a witness or as a defendant? Or Admiral Janeway (does Kate Mulgrew want to be a member of the committee)? Professor Chakotay, who is talking about the archaeological impact of a captain's actions?

This, and the Starfleet Academy series, woul dboth be set in San Fransisco, right? So there would be oppotunities for cameos and crossovers, but the scopes of each show are so massively different that they shouldnt interfere with each other... at all.

[Blackhawk748]

Probably the biggest boon to the Council show is that it's much easier to just end it. No real risk of having tons of loose ends flapping around because the vast majority of episodes are entirely self contained and any overarching plot is just character related, not world shattering.

And the Academy show would have a preset number of season, 4, so it's pretty easy to plan from. Combine that with the fact that if one of the characters in particular was overly popular, you can just follow them on their new career on a Starship

[Tyrant]

I don't think you'd have to ignore it. The only limiting factors are how that show treats androids and how it confirms the destruction of Romulus already established by Star Trek XI. It's otherwise a self-contained story and if you're focusing on the Enterprise F (G?) on the other side of the Federation then none of the stuff in Picard would impact that. It's a pretty self-contained story.
Personally, I would ignore it. I know that's unlikely, all things considered. But, I think it sets up things as just being dark to be dark. It ends somewhat optimistically, I admit. But, even ignoring the android situation, the deal with Romulus is not great. To me, the Federation takes a needlessly pessimistic approach to the whole situation. I know that the Romulans are enemies and known for their duplicitousness, but this was a chance to try to make them into an ally. Or at least not an active enemy. This is what they did with the Klingons (the fact this is basically the same scenario is another reason I would ignore Picard and Nu Trek I) and it appears to have worked.

Depends on the funding. If money is not an object, why not multiple? In reality, money would be a concern, in which case focusing the cash on one show would be superior. You could still probably get away with one live action show and one animated series, since animated series tend to have lower budgets to start with.
Well, the point of the qualifier was to sidestep the issue. Yes, money will be an issue. It's always an issue, which is why I think it's pointless to sidetrack a discussion about what people would do. My question was from the standpoint of, "Would this be a narratively good idea? Would this help advance the franchise?" instead of "Can CBS afford this?" I'll concede the answer to the CBS question is probably no.

I think Picard demonstrates that you can do a limited series. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I found it quite enjoyable for what it was. Picard is the limited series with the less optimistic take, or at least as un-optimistic as I care for Star Trek to get. Trying out ideas in single season stories is how you would find out what a modern Star Trek audience would like. It also allows for more focused stories that don't have to deal with a huge cast signing on for 5-10 years.
My other thought with this was possibly using them as a halfway point between the movies and multipart episodes. For instance, if you go with the idea of helping to rebuild the Cardassians. You have a subplot building of the more militaristic elements trying to rebuild the military. This all comes to a head in a large confrontation for the fate of the Cardassians that involves big ship battles and all the bells and whistles. This would need to be more than an episode or two to do it justice. So maybe a limited series or essentially a TV movie (like the various Babylon 5 "movies"). Or use the limited series to show the militaristic side building up and doing their thing. Basically, expand beyond season long entries as the narrative demands and/or to explore side stories that don't warrant a full series.

Difficult. Star Trek is typically set within the Federation because the characters and culture are human. Setting a show entirely outside the Federation risks alienating the audience. Quite literally.
True, and probably the best argument against the idea. I think some of the more "human" races could be made to work though. The random space blobs and omnipotent beings would take more work.

A thought occurs.....

If people do want to do a dystopian Star Trek, why not just set it in the evil parallel universe from Mirror Mirror?
The episodes in the Mirror Universe were my favorite episodes of Discovery.

All this talk led me to think of an idea:
Prime Directive Review Committee,
a cerebral and philosophical series that centers on the committee, looking over various scenarios that have occurred, the outcomes, and to what degree exceptions should be made to the prime directive, whether it should be amended, etc. Ideally using all new scenarios rather than the ones that came up in the other series. Based on the existing series it seems clear there are enough cases of the directive being 'violated' that making up new cases wouldn't be jarring.
At least one person on the committee would favor a more interventionist approach.
Probably best as 1-2 seasons.
That could make for an interesting series. I would love to see ideas like this and the Academy series where we see other parts of the Federation that we only get an occasional glimpse or mention here and there. Maybe a series of limited series simply called Federation (maybe with a subtitle to indicate what they are going to cover) to cover these ideas? Maybe one deals with some of the struggles of terraforming? Not just the actual terraforming but trying to get people to move there. One to deal with the day to day at a Federation shipyard. Some of the goings on at Starfleet Headquarters. Hopefully seeing references to them in whatever is ongoing with some guest stars here and there.

[Gallowglass]

So I would like to see a reboot of TNG. But bear with me.

the Abrams-verse movie have created a seperate reality from the traditional one. Due to the destruction of Vulcan, Starfleet has grown more militant as demonstrated in the second movie where they found Khan earlier and used him to make weapons, and in the third movie where a star fleet captain is revealed to have gone rogue.

So I would carry this forward 70 years and do TNG in the abrams verse.

Now, this doesn't mean I want a gritty-militaristic version of TNG. We got that in DS9. No, but I do want to play with the characters and grow them in new ways.

Also the format will evolve more toward what modern audiences apparently want. So the first season will be 8-10 episodes long and will all revolve around one storyline rather than episode fo the week. IN this case it will be around a retake of encounter at farpoint.

Background: There was no khitomar accords in this world. The federation and the klingons are still nominally at war. The romulans are still secretively withdrawn.

The season begins with an inprocess mission by a small band of federation commandos against a klingon target of some sort. We get to know this group by their actions. They are hardened warriors, a closeknit group and famous for winning unwinnable fights against the klingons.

Commander Will Riker leads this groups which inclues LT Tasha Yar, a strong female second in command, LT JG Geordi LaForge a new recruit chosen by Will because of his unigue visual powers and budding technical wizardry and Chief Miles Obrien, an old soldier non-com, survivor of the Cardassian wars and brilliant seat-of-his-pants engineer to contrast with LaForge's by-the-book technician.

After the cold open, Will is brought back to earth and meets with an admiral who is giving him a new command. A new ship, a new idea. The USS Enterprise. the first Galaxy class ship and the first ship built in 50 years that isn't a warship. Its a colonizer and explorer.

Will is less than enthused. He is a military man, and a ship that is supposed to go beyond the borders, look for new frontiers and drop of colonization groups of families and scientists as they go isn't his cup of tea.

However, it is pointed out that this is an opportunity for him. If he does well on this first mission, he might get the permanent captaincy and some members of the High command believe in this cause.

You see, this ship was the dream of a now disgraced former starfleet captain. An idea of peaceful exploration rather than just continuing a non-stop war.

Riker's enthusiasm drops even lower when he meets the head of the civilian colonization and science group. Dr. Beverly Crusher, who seems very anti-military to him and butts heads against him as she prioritizes science over security. She also has an annoying precocious teenage boy who tags along.

Still, he accepts the command and is given his first mission. A new alien station has opened up on the edge of Federation space near the edge of the neutral zone. This station is apparently a wonder that needs to be seen to be believed and seems far more advanced than the race that built it. And they are offering it for lease to the highest bidder. Its an important stepping stone into the new frontier and they can't let the klingons or cardassians or anyone else have it.

To that end he is told to stop off at Betazed and pick up a negotiator. An ex-starfleet captain, the very man who helped get the enterprise programs started before his loss of position.

Jean Luc Picard.

You see Picard started acting strangely several years ago and he was sent to betazed to convalesce because he was suffering from a sort of dementia. He supposedly is much better now but the admiral wants Riker to keep an eye on him.

So the series will have many themes. Is the federation for exploration and science or just a military institution. Hard line defense mindsets like Riker vs science position mindsets like Picard and Crusher.

This mission has complications. Picard's minder, Dr. Deanna Troi, has a personal history with Riker. Tasha Yar has a history with Picard. He saved her as a young girl from her terrible home planet and is a kind of surrogate father for her, he's the reason she joined starfleet in the first place.

Add to this, the strange alien entity Q. They come across him on the way to Farpoint, just like before, with Picard, Troi, Yar and Obrien brought into his strange court, but this time it's different, Q is angrier, more volatile, more insane.

You see the fracturing of the timeline back in Kirk's time has caused a fracturing in the Q continuim. This has driven him mad, and its his connection to Picard that has caused his early lapse into dementia. They are given the same mission. Do something at Farpoint to prove humanity's worth, but there is a larger mission here. Q believes that Picard is the key to fixing the fracture. To somehow right the path of the universe that went wrong when Vulcan was destroyed. To put the universe back on the right path and fix the Continuum's sickness. He doesn't express this directly, it has to be discovered by Picard over the course of the season.

More complications when they get to Farpoint. The Farpoint alien race has conscripted with an evil scientist to help them control the entity they've turned into the station. Dr. Noonian Singh, an ancient old human who is wanted in several systems for his unethical sciences. He is accompanied by two android "sons" of his own creation. Lore and Data. Lore is volatile, cruel and sadistic, Data quiet, contemplative and unsure. Soogh is much more like Lore but heaps praise on Data as his perfect son, which pisses Lore off.

Another complication. The klingon delegation who is at the station is headed by two brothers. Worf and his brother (name forgotten) who are head of the house of Mogh, basically Klingon pirates and rogues. They have come to take Farpoint by force is negotiation fails. Worf is smart and cunning and seems to be a step ahead of the feds at every angle.

The season progresses as the Feds learn the secrets of farpoint, deal with conflict with the klingons, cardassians and whoever else is there for the station. I kind of see it like a Babylon 5 like situation. Multiple parties brought together and forced to deal with each other.

By the end of the series, Worf ends up taken prisoner by the Feds on board the enterprise (but it's hinted that this was his plan all along and that he has a reason to want to be there) and Data has turned on his father and brother and sought asylum amongst the federation. They solve the riddle of farpoint, complicated by the fact that some federation higher ups are willing to keep the entity prisoner to keep the station and Riker has to be convinced by Picard to do the right thing and free it. But they do and Q ends the season letting them know that they are a step closer to fixing what went wrong all those years ago.

If this goes forward into further seasons, Worf will integrate with the crew but always have an edge of menace. Lore and Soong will be recurring menaces and so on.

So that's the bare bones of my idea.

[Gallowglass]

"70 years ago, the planet Vulcan was destroyed. One of the two founding races of the federation reduced to a wandering homeless tribe of refugees.

As a result, the federation moved it's primary purpose from peaceful exploration to military defense. Another Vulcan could not be allowed to occur.

When the klingon homeworld of Q'o'nos was rendered uninhabitable because of the destruction of their moon, they blamed the federation. Attempts at a peaceful accord at Khittomar proved fruitless.

Tempers flared. War was inevitable."



cold open

Space. A large gaseous planet, surrounded by moons and a asteroid belt.

TK-40154. Goloxian Trade Route. Stardate 41147.7

Warp trails and a caravan of ships drop out of warp. They are large bulky cargo transports. They are circling toward the planet.

As they pass the asteroid fields we find two small dark attack craft, federation design, hiding among the asteroids, using them to mask their presence. Each one is set up like a two man fighter craft. "Valiant" painted on one, "Renegade" painted on the other, like names of fighter jets.

Old-style radio clicks.

R1A "RIker": "All right people, look alive. Renegade, passive scanners only, no reason to paint a target."

R2B "Obrien": "Man I hope they show up this time."

R2A "Yar": "You are not kidding. I'd hate to think we've been sitting here drinking our own urine for the last two days for nothing."

We see inside the cockpits. The figures within are wearing full body suits and helmets that mask their identities. The first has a male pilot and male passenger, the second a female pilot and male passenger.

Riker: "Can the chatter, you two. Anything on the passive scanners?"

O'Brien: "Negative." off-channel "Not that their would be, that's the whole point."

Riker: "Okay, Rook. Time to prove your worth. Depolorizing canopy"

The pilot in raptor 1 depolorizes the canopy, the passenger looks up through the canopy at the cargo freighter. He reaches up and opens the top shield on his helmet. Underneath we see the thin band of a VISOR.

He stared up toward the ship.

And we go in to Geordi vision. The sky is no longer empty space but full of vibrant auras. We see gravity wells and radiation bands and exotic swirls and eddies representing heat loss, exhaust vapors and whatever else. His vision passes past the ships and we see them. Two Klingon birds of prey tacking in around the planet to intercept the cargo ships. They are bright spots of energy, little more than an outline. We might not even know at first what they are.

LaForge: "There they are. I see them. Oh my god its working."

Riker: "That's great kid. But can you target them?"

LaForge quickly works his targeting computer.

O'Brien: looks at the data being fed over. "Okay, I'm getting targeting info from the kid.

Yar: "Train scanners. Can you lock onto anything?"

O'Brien: "Negative. Nothing there. Is this working?" *He slaps the console, it frizzes, momentarily locks, then fades.*

LaForge: "I can see them! V plus 24, H plus 48. I can show you where they are but I can't make the computers lock on something they can't see."

O'Brien: "We're firing blind... uh no offense"

Yar: "What, Chief? You've never fired without target lock before? How did you get through the cardassian war with that attitude?"

O'Brien: "Mostly with target lock, LT."

Riker: "Can It. The Rook can feed us the location manually. Good enough for me. We have about 30 seconds before they are within firing distance of the caravan. We need to drop them both before they can get shields up. Rook. I'm taking arms control, you just send the coordinates. Go for contact in 3... 2..."

Both attack craft power up and pulse out, accelerating to full impulse like a rocket shot. They curve out the asteroid belt, rocketing past the caravan and toward empty space. On Raptor 1, Riker takes the weapons joystick with one hand, flight in the other and starts firing phasors. in Raptor 2, Tasha flanks in, while O'Brien fires.

Phasor blasts empty into space then suddenly hit something that isn't there. The first BoP appears as its hit and comes out of cloak.

As it appears, both ships concentrate fire and destroy it as they sail past.

The second BoP decloaks. The first couple blasts hit it, then start being absorbed by the shields. It is damaged, but still operational. The two craft sling past and loop back around.

Lots of chatter over the line:

Yar: "Come on, get it get it..."

O'Brien: "Light up the second one."

Riker: "Concentrate all fire..."

Yar: "It's decloaking! Don't let it get its shields up!..."

As they circle around, the BoP begins firing. Its disrupters are far more powerful than the attack craft. The ships take a pummeling as they flank and return fire.

Raptor 2 takes a bad hit.

O'Brien: "Weapons systems down. Shields at 40."

Yar: "Dammit Chief, get me my guns."

O'Brien: "Copy, LT, Working on it!"

O'Brien pops a panel, begins playing with the wiring.

Riker: "Get back to the asteroids, use them as cover, they outgun us, but we're more maneuverable."

The two vessels head back toward the asteroids, the BoP in pursuit.

Suddenly, Riker cuts his engines or taps the breaks. Raptor 2 sails past and into the field. Riker spins 180 and fires at the BoP, then dives down and away, entering the asteroids at a different tack. The BoP turns to pursue.

LaForge: "Uh Commander... What are you doing?!"

Riker: "Making sure they follow us instead of them."

LaForge: "Yeah, but..."

Riker: "Shouldn't you be firing instead of whining?"

Laforge nods and spins the guns, firing backwards. A pursuit happens in the asteroids. Riker shows off his amazing piloting skills, but the guns are ineffective against the BoP's shields. They take another hit, then juke around an asteroid.

LaForge: "Shields at 5. Another hit like that and we're toast."

Suddenly, as the BoP emerges, the second raptor appears, gunning straight towards it. At the last second, the canopy explodes off and Yar and O'Brien eject out. The ship penetrates the shield and the BoP goes boom.

Silence, music.

O'brien *floating in space*: "Lieutenant Yar, I would like to lodge a formal complaint against my superior officers reckless disregard for my life."

Yar: "Noted. Come on Chief. You plan on living forever?"

O'brien: "Yes. Yes I do."

Raptor one passes nearby, The Canopy depolarizes again. Inside, Riker lifts his face plate, giving us our first look at him. Outside, Yar does the same. They smile at each other, old comrades, perhaps some perceived sexual tension.

Riker: "Exactly what jackass taught you that maneuver, Lieutenant Yar?"

Yar: "Not sure. Some space cowboy, with more guts than brains."

Riker: "Uh huh. Hey LaForge, any other targets out there?"

LaForge: "None that I see."

Riker: "Great, we can't take you on board, so we'll tow you to the caravan. Stand by."

Riker manipulates his controls, Two tow cables shoot out and latch onto the space suited Yar and O'Brien. The ship turns and jets off toward the receding caravan, dragging the two behind it.


O'Brien: "Oh yeah. This isn't humiliating at all."

Yar: "Remind me to take you waterskiing next leave, Chief"

O'Brien: "Copy that LT"


shoot to credit sequence.

[Cikomyr2]

We just had a series that did a season around war with the Klingons, not sure doing another would work.

[Ramza00]

I wonder if you can get something good out inverting the usual cryogenic freeze trope, by making a show about a cryogenically frozen modern cynical person who wakes up in an idealistic future like Star Trek and keeps expecting it to be dystopian, but keeps being proven wrong, and thus it becomes a show about overcoming one's own negativity.

You mean gaslighting a person?

Well not literally gaslighting but in some ways it will feel partly like that. It would be a traumatic experience if accurately described and condescending if not accurately. No one becomes a cynic for it is fun, it is a survival mechanism for a certain type of environment. You start seeing cynical answers as likely for you been disappointed way too many times and the word disappointment does not truly capture this.

A show about a cryogenically person who is a cynic and introduced to paradise would be either boring or it would feel gawking. Then again an episode or two of this may be different than 10 or so episodes dedicated to the premise.

[Bohandas]

If we continued after Voyager, which timeline would we continue after? The one where the voage takes decades, or the one where it's only a few years?

EDIT:
Also, how about a series about Gary Seven?

[Peelee]

Also, how about a series about Gary Seven?

Could it be filmed like it was still sixties aesthetics?

[Arcane_Secrets]

I kind of think a project like this would be run best by someone who usually writes and directs parody movies (like Keenen Ivory Wayans or Mel Brooks) Not because it should be funny, but because it they would have experience aping the styles of other writers and directors. This would allow the creation of a Star Trek that resembles Star Trek, and not a Star Trek that resembles Star Trek (2009) (or worse, Enterprise)

EDIT:
Whoever directs should walk onto the set each day in-character as Joseph Pevney

So I take it you wouldn't be a fan of Quentin Tarantino directing a Star Trek movie?

*ducks pre-emptorily* No, seriously, I know that's a bad idea already.

[LibraryOgre]

Just an idle thought: The ideal Paladin is someone you could picture as a post TOS Star Fleet Captain. I think Picard, Sisko, and Janeway all work as Paladins, struggling between moral and ethical behavior, sometimes finding the good to be overwhelmed by the code by which they live, and sometimes finding that code to be inadequate for the situation they're in and taking the moral stance.

[Hopeless]

STAR TREK WAGON TRAIN

Back during the aftermath of the war that resulted in Noonien Singh fleeing the solar system several other generation ships plunged into the depths of space seeking a new home somewhere among the stars.

A few made it but for one they wake up from their long sleep to find their ship strangely left unmanned with no sign of the skeleton crew that should have been awake.

Having to adapt and make do they discover a solar system nearby and begin the course change to enter the system discovering it resembles their own system as it has an Oort cloud an dwarf ice world at its outer limit with two gas giants, 3 rocks worlds and 2 hot worlds with the third and fourth world world both inhabitable.

Over the course of the first season we see their personal stories told how and why the joined this ship and what they remember before the ship left usually ending their prelude with them waking aboard the ship as per the first episode.

Intermix updates on the system as they venture insystem managing to slow down enough to be able to reach the 4th world in about a year.

We see their reactions to the other still slumbering crew and passengers still trying to figure out what happened to the skeleton crew which remains an ongoing mystery.

Its as they're about to go into orbit of the 4th world that they receive a message from another generation ship whose command crew are upset the other ship reached this system first claiming they only had the right to settle here despite that being blatantly untrue.

An away team is selected to begin the analysis of the 4th world, whilst another focuses on the 3rd world that seems similarly inhabitable.

The climax of the first season reveals they aren't the first to reach this world as a large generation ship not from Earth is detected on the surface of the third world although no life signs beyond normal animal or vegetation has been detected.

The rival generation ship begins colonizing the 4th world in an effort to beat the first arrival and the command crew is finally awakened on the generation ship who blame the team currently in command of negligence despite evidence to the contrary.

They arrange a meeting with the other ship and putting a secondary team in command head over to discuss the situation only the other ship kills them and openly televises this making it clear they're clearly hostile and the secondary team can't deal with this forcing one of them to free the former crew who are now stuck in the position of a war being declared on them by a rival generation ship.

Season 2 deals with them being forced to recall their surveying expedition and move into orbit of the 3rd world now confirmed as inhabited since their ship is unarmed and the rival is clearly armed as they release armed shuttles to fire on the other generation ship.

It takes a year before reaching the orbit of the 3rd world they eventually manage to set up a settlement and prepare accordingly due to the change in environments which is largely clear although bouts of unexpected allergies emerging but the primary focus is the crashed alien generation ship.

Would this premise interest you as establishing the very early days of the Federation prior to Enterprise?

[LibraryOgre]

Reminds me somewhat of the Terra Nova episode of Enterprise.

The first human ships to an alien world went to a place christened Terra Nova. They established a colony and Earth wanted to send more colonists. The Novans objected; they had built their life, and didn't want others to piggyback on their hard work. This led to a conflict with Earth, especially as the new crew was already en route.

It could definitely be a cool series to see, though.

[Trafalgar]

STAR TREK WAGON TRAIN

Back during the aftermath of the war that resulted in Noonien Singh fleeing the solar system several other generation ships plunged into the depths of space seeking a new home somewhere among the stars.

A few made it but for one they wake up from their long sleep to find their ship strangely left unmanned with no sign of the skeleton crew that should have been awake.

Having to adapt and make do they discover a solar system nearby and begin the course change to enter the system discovering it resembles their own system as it has an Oort cloud an dwarf ice world at its outer limit with two gas giants, 3 rocks worlds and 2 hot worlds with the third and fourth world world both inhabitable.

Over the course of the first season we see their personal stories told how and why the joined this ship and what they remember before the ship left usually ending their prelude with them waking aboard the ship as per the first episode.

Intermix updates on the system as they venture insystem managing to slow down enough to be able to reach the 4th world in about a year.

We see their reactions to the other still slumbering crew and passengers still trying to figure out what happened to the skeleton crew which remains an ongoing mystery.

Its as they're about to go into orbit of the 4th world that they receive a message from another generation ship whose command crew are upset the other ship reached this system first claiming they only had the right to settle here despite that being blatantly untrue.

An away team is selected to begin the analysis of the 4th world, whilst another focuses on the 3rd world that seems similarly inhabitable.

The climax of the first season reveals they aren't the first to reach this world as a large generation ship not from Earth is detected on the surface of the third world although no life signs beyond normal animal or vegetation has been detected.

The rival generation ship begins colonizing the 4th world in an effort to beat the first arrival and the command crew is finally awakened on the generation ship who blame the team currently in command of negligence despite evidence to the contrary.

They arrange a meeting with the other ship and putting a secondary team in command head over to discuss the situation only the other ship kills them and openly televises this making it clear they're clearly hostile and the secondary team can't deal with this forcing one of them to free the former crew who are now stuck in the position of a war being declared on them by a rival generation ship.

Season 2 deals with them being forced to recall their surveying expedition and move into orbit of the 3rd world now confirmed as inhabited since their ship is unarmed and the rival is clearly armed as they release armed shuttles to fire on the other generation ship.

It takes a year before reaching the orbit of the 3rd world they eventually manage to set up a settlement and prepare accordingly due to the change in environments which is largely clear although bouts of unexpected allergies emerging but the primary focus is the crashed alien generation ship.

Would this premise interest you as establishing the very early days of the Federation prior to Enterprise?

Are you talking about this book series by Diann Carey (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Wagon_Train_to_the_Stars)?

[Dire_Flumph]

Are you talking about this book series by Diann Carey (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Wagon_Train_to_the_Stars)?

Legend has it that Gene Roddenberry originally pitched Star Trek as "Wagon Train to the Stars" (Wagon Train was a highly popular Western TV show in the late 50's into the 60s).

The New Earth Series (of which book #1 was titled "Wagon Train to the Stars") has some similarities to the pitch Hopeless made, but other than being about settlers colonizing a new planet, it's pretty different. But also pretty good, I remember enjoying reading all six books on a vacation 15 or so years ago. I remember it being about the Enterprise escorting a fleet of settlers to a new planet to colonize, then staying around for several months to help get the colony going, both helping with issues with the planet itself and with a nearby alien species that tries to force the colonists off the world.

Either would actually make a great pitch for a season long Trek story on TV for my money.