Swift Hunter & Arrow Storm spell - possible to active Skirmish?

[eversilentone]

Hi,

Hoping for a bit of help. One of my players is a Swift Hunter (Mystic Ranger and Arcane Archer in case that matters) and has discovered Arrow Storm. It requires a Swift action followed by a full round attack, which is incompatible with the 10' needed to active Skirmish. Is there any way people can think of to allow the Swift Hunter to move 10'+ to active Skirmish? I thought of Belt Of Battle but then realised it takes a Swift action to use the Belt, so that wouldn't work either.

Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance!

[zfs]

So, first question, where is your player getting Skirmish die from? Don't they have some Scout levels? There are PrC with skirmish, but Arcane Archer isn't one of them.

Moving 10 ft without a swift is tough because the easiest way (Travel Devotion) won't work. Getting your 5ft step to a 10ft step is your best bet, but the standard way to do that is either a DC 40 Tumble check (will require some cheese to get regularly) or a 3.0 item that requires Monk levels, Sparring Dummy of the Master.

There's a goofy online item, Cyran Gliding Boots, that will let you make a 10 ft step in place of a 5 ft step 3 times per day:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a

[Rebel7284]

A bit of googling allowed me to find this thread which has a couple of ways:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement
Threefold Mask of the Chimera and hiring a Marshal would both seem to work.

What level are you?
What is your build?
Is retraining allowed?

Those questions might help folks narrow down the best options.

In addition,
- Craft Contingent Spell + Spells that grant actions is a cheap and easy way to do this
- Polymorph + Assume Supernatural Ability gives you some options especially if you're an aberration.

[zfs]

A bit of googling allowed me to find this thread which has a couple of ways:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement
Threefold Mask of the Chimera and hiring a Marshal would both seem to work.


Not sure Threefold Mask of the Chimera would work - it states you take the extra move action at the end of your turn, and Skirmish only applies during a round when you moved the required amount.

[eversilentone]

So, first question, where is your player getting Skirmish die from? Don't they have some Scout levels? There are PrC with skirmish, but Arcane Archer isn't one of them.

Moving 10 ft without a swift is tough because the easiest way (Travel Devotion) won't work. Getting your 5ft step to a 10ft step is your best bet, but the standard way to do that is either a DC 40 Tumble check (will require some cheese to get regularly) or a 3.0 item that requires Monk levels, Sparring Dummy of the Master.

There's a goofy online item, Cyran Gliding Boots, that will let you make a 10 ft step in place of a 5 ft step 3 times per day:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a

Apologies, yes to the minimum of Scout levels to qualify for Swift Hunter.

The boots (goofy indeed!) are perfect, especially as the player has Skirmisher Boots so it'd be a bit of a choice on what to use. Thank you, especially for the swift reply!

EDIT: Just to reply to the other messages whilst I was replying:

The PC is Scout 3 / Mystic Ranger 8 / Arcane Archer 2. No retraining is allowed, legacy weapon build around Drowbane using handcrossbow (treats as bow for AA and spells), also Sword Of The Arcane Order. Tiefling race if relevant, and most of the Ranger alternative class features that make it more city based. The campaign is a planar one set in Sigil but about to embark largely into the Hells.

[zfs]

Apologies, yes to the minimum of Scout levels to qualify for Swift Hunter.

The boots (goofy indeed!) are perfect, especially as the player has Skirmisher Boots so it'd be a bit of a choice on what to use. Thank you, especially for the swift reply!


Excellent to hear! I always like when players need to make meaningful loadout choices like that, and it's also good because Arrow Storm isn't a spell you're going to want every encounter - if you're focusing fire on the big bad, you're better off just using rapid shot and your iteratives, or greater manyshot. But it's a fantastic mook slayer and great for epic "I solo this encounter" moments that are rare for a skirmisher archetype.

[Rebel7284]

Apologies, yes to the minimum of Scout levels to qualify for Swift Hunter.

The boots (goofy indeed!) are perfect, especially as the player has Skirmisher Boots so it'd be a bit of a choice on what to use. Thank you, especially for the swift reply!

EDIT: Just to reply to the other messages whilst I was replying:

The PC is Scout 3 / Mystic Ranger 8 / Arcane Archer 2. No retraining is allowed, legacy weapon build around Drowbane using handcrossbow (treats as bow for AA and spells), also Sword Of The Arcane Order. Tiefling race if relevant, and most of the Ranger alternative class features that make it more city based. The campaign is a planar one set in Sigil but about to embark largely into the Hells.

Does the character already have Practiced Spellcaster? If yes, craft contingent spell is probably a great idea for the level 15 feat. Until then, the boots are a great idea, especially if the character can find someone with the ability to combine the boots for a premium.

Also, make sure your player also knows about Arrowsplit. You might need to make a ruling about how that interacts with Imbue Arrow, but even if you can't copy spells, getting a handfull of extra attacks with skirmish is nice. Can be combined with Empower and/or Maximize for extra lols if you have the right metamagic rods.

[eversilentone]

Does the character already have Practiced Spellcaster? If yes, craft contingent spell is probably a great idea for the level 15 feat. Until then, the boots are a great idea, especially if the character can find someone with the ability to combine the boots for a premium.

Also, make sure your player also knows about Arrowsplit. You might need to make a ruling about how that interacts with Imbue Arrow, but even if you can't copy spells, getting a handfull of extra attacks with skirmish is nice. Can be combined with Empower and/or Maximize for extra lols if you have the right metamagic rods.

Sadly not, I was hinting so strongly but the player decided for Gloom Strike :annoyed: He's a newer player and this is his first mid/late level campaign too. Hopefully that'll be a level 15 feat... Arrowsplit is great - I (DM) am happy to rule that it can work with Imbue Arrow, as I just think it's fun, and at this point multiple Fireballs aren't exponentially more effective than a single one given Devils (they're heading to the Hells) are resistant/immune to fire /shrugs Thanks for the nod, that's really useful.

[Darrin]

If the Swift Hunter has 19-ish ranks in the Ride skill, you can use the Fast Mount/Dismount trick to move 10'. Just make sure you're next to a mount with a move action available, skill check to get on the mount, skill check to get off, just make sure your ending square is 10' from your starting square. At that point, you should still have all your actions available.

[Troacctid]

Action Surge would work, but you'd have to have action points in your campaign.

[DarkSoul]

There are ways to move 10' as a 5' step. Sparring (Training?) Dummy of the Master and a really good Tumble check are the only two I can remember right now.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Press the Advantage is a White Raven stance that lets you take two 5ft steps in a turn. Combined with the Sparring Dummy of the Master item mentioned above (or any other method that gives 10ft of movement, for that matter), that gives you enough movement for Improved Skirmish. However, it requires you to already have 2 White Raven maneuvers and have an initiator level of 9. Tome of Battle classes give 1 initiator level per level, other base classes give 1/2 per level, and prestige classes get either 1 or 1/2 (the rule is a bit ambiguous).

So you could spend two feats on Martial Study for the two White Raven maneuvers (probably including White Raven Tactics, which is good enough to be potentially worth that investment on its own), followed by a third for Martial Stance (Press the Advantage).

Alternatively, you could dip Crusader or Warblade 1 at level 17 (if prestige classes count for half initiator level) or level 16 (if full), picking up the prerequisite maneuvers plus a few more and Press the Advantage in one fell swoop. Or you could dip Crusader 2 (Crusader gets another stance at 2nd level) starting at level 15/14.

[NigelWalmsley]

Does mounted movement proc Skirmish? I can't tell from the text. If it does, that seems like the obvious thing. You could also get a Wizard cohort from Leadership and have him follow you around casting Greater Slide.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The boots (goofy indeed!) are perfect, especially as the player has Skirmisher Boots so it'd be a bit of a choice on what to use. Thank you, especially for the swift reply!This is what the rules in the MIC are for. All he has to do is find an item crafter to add the effects of one onto the other. There's a 50% surcharge for the most expensive effect, but it's still a thing he can do, by the rules. He could even use the pair of boots he doesn't want to keep as a downpayment on the enhancement. Or he could take the Ancestral Relic feat and sacrifice a pair to add the effect onto the other pair.

[Darrin]

Does mounted movement proc Skirmish? I can't tell from the text. If it does, that seems like the obvious thing. You could also get a Wizard cohort from Leadership and have him follow you around casting Greater Slide.

Complete Adventurer Errata shut down mounted skirmish, although this is widely regarded as one of WotC's more boneheaded rulings. You're better off if you just allow mounted skirmish as a house-rule (more historically accurate, too!).

[NigelWalmsley]

Complete Adventurer Errata shut down mounted skirmish, although this is widely regarded as one of WotC's more boneheaded rulings. You're better off if you just allow mounted skirmish as a house-rule (more historically accurate, too!).

Ah, that explains why no one was suggesting it, despite the fact that the book doesn't say anything against it. Does the errata turn off Greater Slide too? I really hope not, because there's something kind of hilarious about a Ranger who's followed around by a Wizard assistant who ping-pongs him around the battlefield.

[Darrin]

Ah, that explains why no one was suggesting it, despite the fact that the book doesn't say anything against it. Does the errata turn off Greater Slide too? I really hope not, because there's something kind of hilarious about a Ranger who's followed around by a Wizard assistant who ping-pongs him around the battlefield.

Teleport effects are a "grey area". I've seen RAW arguments both ways... one side claims that teleportation involves changing location without movement, therefore Skirmish doesn't trigger. The counter-argument is... that argument is immensely stupid, movement involves starting at one point and ending in another, so it counts.

On the gripping hand... whatever works best for your table, go with that.

[Blue Jay]

Complete Adventurer Errata shut down mounted skirmish, although this is widely regarded as one of WotC's more boneheaded rulings. You're better off if you just allow mounted skirmish as a house-rule (more historically accurate, too!).

There's a light cavalry scout variant in Dragon #346 that gives you a special mount. It doesn't say specifically that it allows you to skirmish while mounted, but the variant doesn't make a whole lot of sense without that. My DM ruled that I could only skirmish while mounted, which I thought was fair. I ultimately didn't get to play the character, though.

[Troacctid]

Tempo bloodspikes (Magic of Eberron) grant you an extra move action in a round without eating a swift action. They're consumable, but they're only 150 gp each.

[Thurbane]

Elocator 7 can get an extra extra 5 foot step in a round, but won't be easy to fit into a Swift Hunter build.
The Sidestep feat can give you an extra 5 foot step when someone provokes an AoO, but probably wouldn't be much use in this build. Actually, isn't there a ranger spell that lets you threaten AoO with a bow?
OA lets you move 10 feet on a 5 foot step with a DC 40 Tumble check. Already mentioned.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How about Evasive Reflexes to make a 5' step instead of an AoO, and Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike, combined with the various means of making two 5' steps at a time, or one 10' step? Combine with some means of provoking others into attacking you, and hop around enemies' attacks while attacking back with skirmish?

Of course, that would require ranged AoOs of some sort.

[Doctor Despair]

Could we get ranged attacks on a charge somehow, to make use of pounce? Maybe dip Lion Totem Barbarian, or get it from an item or soul meld somehow?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Could we get ranged attacks on a charge somehow, to make use of pounce? Maybe dip Lion Totem Barbarian, or get it from an item or soul meld somehow?The wording on some versions of pounce allows for ranged attacks. For instance, psionic lion's charge (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm#).

"When you charge, you can make a full attack in the same round."

Note that it says nothing about the full attack being melee, nor does it say when you can make the full attack. It also allows a full attack in addition to a charge attack.

Some other forms of pounce are worded the same way, which allows you to do a full ranged attack before, after, or even during a charge attack. So move 10', do a full ranged attack, then finish up the charge with a melee attack. Goes perfectly with an elvencraft longbow.