Making the evilest, most reviled Black Dragon

[HoboKnight]

Hey guys,

first, a disclaimer: I'm playing with a mature group that can separate game and DM from being a d*** IRL. Thus, this thread.

My party will start in a service of a Black Dragon. They were quite against their will pressed into service of an adult Black dragon with his own private army and he just wants to send them on some tasks. Some creatures to kill for him.

Now, I want to make this guy as EVIL as possible. And being an utter d*** toward the PCs. I want to brew some real hatred here and I'm willing to take a lot of material from "That DM" threads here, but - It is not the DM, that is doing this, but a Big Black.

When thinking of evil people, say, from popular media - does anyone really hate Hannibal Lecter or Thanos? Nah, don't think so. Even Eroll Childress, who is a pretty scary guy, is, IMO not someone, who you hate. Corpses of half-eaten children? A live elf with limbs slowly rotting away? My players will not really react to this.

So I want to go full meta - into the things that really piss people off. PC r*** is over the line IMO, but I still vividly remember that one time, when one DM had placed a Collar of obedience on my lvl 2 character (collar would do 6d6 dmg to my character whenever my character did something, my DM deemed evil). Stealing agency. Destroying magic items. Maybe imprisonment for a few sessions.

Of course the end goal is a violent death of mentioned Big Black (and hopefully, a great satisfaction for my players), but first - this guy does not need to rub them the wrong way. He must rip out entire tufts of hair.

How do I do it?

Thanks!

Also: Before making an answer, pleas re-read the disclaimer.

[Xervous]

Black dragons, often referred to as skull dragons due to their appearance, are painted broadly as cruel, practical monsters that delight in cultivating fear. Due to their preferred choice of lairing biome they generally favor metal treasure as it is one of the few things that won’t decompose over the ages in a marsh or bog. A resilient population under the dragon’s claw is another such thing, cultivated for favors, servitude, and a lasting target for getting a good kick of fear here and there. The party is its plaything, it will be scrying upon them to check on progress, send reminders and otherwise cackle at their struggles. Incomplete information provided that sets them on the path but does not prepare them for what lies ahead.

Things worth detesting, things worthy of fear.

Item destruction. Have the dragon order them to sneak in through a tunnel, chasm or whatever. Make it clear via locals that the tunnel is infested with rust monsters.

Escort missions. The party isn’t just here to kill, they’re kidnapping spoiled princesses whom they shall deliver in good health Or Else. And yes, the dragon wants you to bring her luggage just so he can have the pleasure of slowly torturing her with the inevitable decay of the garments.

Threaten NPCs the players like, kill a few to set the tone off the bat. Or better yet set them up as hostages to be exchanged for tasks done by the PC. Implant one with a Slaad egg to put them on a timer.

Have the pcs swear an oath of loyalty. Few things will piss off players and characters alike more than plot mandated magical vows. Enforce that they address the dragon with layers of titles and kowtow. They are dirt and the dragon may see fit to wipe the swamp muck off its paws on them. Use the paladin’s cape as a kerchief, autograph the wizard’s spellbook, have the bard compose a ballad to be performed in a town square to the squelching rain of rotten fruit.

beat the bard to the punch, kill his dad, kidnap his mother and insist on the bard addressing the new lawfully wedded dragon as Daddy

[Dienekes]

What are your players taboos? Often, they’re things like the murder of innocents, rape/pedophilia, loss of autonomy, cruelty to animals -especially cute or downtrodden ones, slavery. Those can have a powerful reaction. You seem to have that basically covered.

If you want to get more hatred, stealing from the players is always a way to make them hate the guy. Their time, their money, their glory. Figuring out a way to get the dragon to take credit for the things they’re doing could work. General disrespect. If the dragon blatantly reacts like the players aren’t worth the time it takes to give them orders they will just want to prove him wrong. If they need to work together for something, cowardice and blatant kill stealing all while belittling their probably far more directly useful actions.

If the dragon has a tax on the players loot, they will hate it. Probably one will try to hide some trinket or part of the treasure. Have the dragon take it from them anyway. And then punish the attempted betrayal. The torture of a PC can be powerfully hate inducing.

Though I would warn, it takes a particular type of group to actually enjoy this sort of thing. I would not do it, normally.

[Democratus]

If you have magical healing available, you could have the dragon bite off the arm/hand of a character and forbid them to heal it until they successfully return from a job.

[Amnestic]

What are your players taboos? Often, they’re things like the murder of innocents, rape/pedophilia, loss of autonomy, cruelty to animals -especially cute or downtrodden ones, slavery. Those can have a powerful reaction. You seem to have that basically covered.

A big warning flag here to absolutely not cross lines of things players don't want crossing - that second one listed especially. Making characters mad is one thing, but you start crossing taboo lines and suddenly you're the subject of your own rpg horror story in all the wrong ways.

[Unoriginal]

Have the PCs encoutner an old dragonslayer dude, who's also on the hunt for the Red Dragon. He was a great hero once, but while he's still plenty capable age definitively caught up with him, kind of like Ben Kenobi in A New Hope.

If the PCs talk about the Black Dragon, the old dragonslayer promises to help them with it once the Red Dragon is dealt with, and mentions he knows someone who knows a ritual that "could protect everyone here against the black dragon's breath, for a few days". He also has a magic gauntlet that let him track the Red Dragon, thanks to "having his blood". In combat he's the typical "can pull his weight and sometime do awesome stuff but is generally weaker than the PCs" NPC helper stuff (I would give him a Frostbrand)

During the travel, he shows he respect the PCs' skills and capacities, without going into flattery, is to the point but don't push those who aren't, offer advice when it seems the PCs need it, etc. He also tells them stories of other dragon hunts, and of the atrocities the Red and the Black Dragon are responsible for. And all the while he guides the PCs toward the dragon's lair.

When they arrives to the lair, he helps them handle the overwhelming number of minions, and they push further and further into the dragon's domain, until they finally reach the hoard room.

Then it's time for the showdown with the Red Dragon.

And when the PCs win, the old dragonslayer unleashes a flurry of attacks on the character the most likely to be knocked to 0 from it, moving faster and hitting far harder than the PCs ever saw him before. Then he laughs, uses a Black Dragon's Legendary Action, and mock the PCs for being so quick accept they need help from others, questioning why anyone would ever be that generous toward them. He keeps fighting them in human form unless they do enough damages to make him adopt his real Black Dragon shape to be worthwhile. If they still manages to hurt him, he screams "ENOUGH!", tries to get out of the hoard room, and to melt the door shut with its acid breath, trapping the PCs inside with the remains of the Red Dragon's minions outside.

[Kyutaru]

If you really want to anger the players, have his most faithful minion cabal all be Hexblade/Paladins who invented a spell that can rust Full Plate instantly. Their ultimate goal is to research Mordenkainen's Disjunction and bring about the magic item apocalypse, allowing them to seize power because they can summon their own swords.

[Azuresun]

A suggestion I liked from Heroes of Horror in 3e was that dragons value items for their hoard based on their symbolic value rather than their actual value. So maybe the dragon has them stealing things like a child's beloved doll, or a locket that represents someone's last connection with their departed father. The sort of evil that we react to the most viscerally is the sort that's unfair and petty--more Dolores Umbridge than Lord Voldemort.

[Xervous]

Pulling from a horror story I read: give the party temporary better gear specifically tailored to overshadow their most prized possessions and mock them for needing these powerful tools to accomplish their assigned tasks.

[Dienekes]

A big warning flag here to absolutely not cross lines of things players don't want crossing - that second one listed especially. Making characters mad is one thing, but you start crossing taboo lines and suddenly you're the subject of your own rpg horror story in all the wrong ways.

Yeah there is a reason I end my post with essentially a warning. If you want to make truly despicable evil, that’s what it is. It doesn’t have a point, there’s no grand design to it. It’s petty and disgusting.

But many people prefer comic book evil, which is fine. I tend to GM my games that way as well. I think the closest I’ve gotten to that kind of evil is one minor villain beat his wife. And my players did enjoy kicking his ass.

[da newt]

Have the Dragon kill/eat one of the PCs and enslave the rest.

Capture the daughter/mom of every PC and hold them hostage while slowly working on breaking the hostages.

In human form join the party and betray / entrap them in servitude.

Always keep a lip full of kittens like dip tobacco.

Bite off all the PC's left hands and tell them they have to complete X heinous task to get them back, but then don't give them back.

Make the PC's kidnap orphans, then turn them all into thralls.

Make the PCs kill innocents.

Take away all their weapons, spell books, shields, armor, $$, etc - send them on their required task with nothing.

[MadBear]

Give them a task, and then revoke their reward for the slimiest of reasons. Characters hate being stolen from.

If they've written a backstory, corrupt people from it. Killing their backstory characters is easy. Turning their backstory characters into villains, is so much worse.

Have another npc in service to the dragon who has a plan to escape. Let it develop over time, and make him a great ally of the PC's. Then have his plot found out before it's come to fruition and have him killed, using the end of his life not telling the dragon who he was working with. Them have him brought back from the dead using speak with dead and force it out of him. Punish the PC's accordingly.

[Dr. Cliché]

I think something that will inspire hatred is if you make the dragon unbelievably petty. Have him insult the PCs constantly. Make them clean his horde by licking every coin and gemstone until it shines. Have him be a fat slob who lies back on his hoard and demands that they cut up his food and feed it to him piece by piece. And then afterwards he steals half of their meagre rations. Have him demand that they pick up his bloated ass and haul him around the cave, as he's too lazy to move himself. Oh, and they also have to bring a carpet of gold coins to place beneath him, for his claws don't deserve to touch anything less. Have him use them (and any other slaves) as his personal chairs/footstools just for giggles.

Obviously there are other options as well. Rape was mentioned earlier, though it doesn't have to go that far. He could simply force one or more female party members to remove all their clothes while in his lair. You could have him eat or mutilate other prisoners who are stuck working for him like the party. You could have him pull the wings off a friendly pseudodragon.

But above all, as above, I would just make him very, very petty. IMO spitefully humiliating the players will make them hate him vastly more than if he battled them or threatened a town or enacted some other, more villainous scheme.



PC r*** is over the line IMO

r***?

Are we discussing ideas or playing hangman? :smallconfused:

[Tvtyrant]

The list of awful things you can do goes on forever. They can be very petty, like making everyone wear wool clothes so they itch constantly to not allowing shoes.

Some ideas:

Breeds with apex predators to make half-dragons it unleashes on the world. Half-dragon crocodiles, half-dragon bears, etc. It lets them attack human communities and if the communities hunt them he kills the hunters.

Forces political units to pay exorbitant tribute, allows the ones who can make their tribute to conquer those who can't so they don't ally with each other.

Takes tribute in weird but needed items. Monopolizes salt, then sells it back at an impossible price. Buys up firewood and hordes it until a cold winter and sells it back at bankrupting rates.

Takes child tithes for selling, but allows communities to decide which children so the communities themselves are disjointed and incapable of fighting back.

Uses a forced labor system, but pays the community members. However their work rations have highly addictive drugs ground into them, so they are addicted when sent home and have to come work for pennies to fuel their forced addictions.

All dead individuals in communities must be turned over to become undead workers, which are posted in the towns they come from to hurt the people that live there.

[Lille]

r***?

Are we discussing ideas or playing hangman? :smallconfused:

I mean, some people might just not be comfortable using the full word?

[KorvinStarmast]

Always keep a lip full of kittens like dip tobacco. What, everyone over size Large doesn't do that as a habit? My kitten sales will plummet! :smalleek:

Make the PC's kidnap orphans, then turn them all into thralls.
There's some fine evil right there.

Make the PCs kill innocents.
PCs can choose not to...

Take away all their weapons, spell books, shields, armor, $$, etc - send them on their required task with nothing. Sort of like "Out of the Abyss" but it's "Out of the Lair"

Give them a task, and then revoke their reward for the slimiest of reasons. Characters hate being stolen from. There's some fine evil right there.

If they've written a backstory, corrupt people from it. --- Turning their backstory characters into villains, is so much worse. That's some fine evil, right there. 👍

[Dr. Cliché]

I mean, some people might just not be comfortable using the full word?

Which isn't a healthy thing and definitely not something to be encouraged.


That aside, though, my point was that so much of the word was censored that i didn't even know what the word was supposed to be. :smalltongue:

[Wizard_Lizard]

Another thing you could do, expanding on the mum stealing. Have the dragon kidnap someon close to one of the pcs, and turn into a human form, they then seduce said person, in front of the pcs, who, the dragon has told, if the person finds out of the situation, the dragon WILL eat the person. The dragon then eats the person.

[Kireban]

Make him feed on their energy and keep them at a permanent level 3 exhaustion.
You can take ideas from reddit. r/dndhorrorstories got a lot of stuff that made people uncomfortable.

[Sjappo]

A suggestion I liked from Heroes of Horror in 3e was that dragons value items for their hoard based on their symbolic value rather than their actual value. So maybe the dragon has them stealing things like a child's beloved doll, or a locket that represents someone's last connection with their departed father. The sort of evil that we react to the most viscerally is the sort that's unfair and petty--more Dolores Umbridge than Lord Voldemort.
This is gold, in my opinion. I would shy away from anything that pisses the players off. Like rustmonsters and stealing gear. That is mostly just the DM being a d, not the dragon being evil.

Do you know The Trolley Problem? Try to have the dragon put them in situations where there are only bad endings and worse endings. Like stopping a forest fire from destroying a village by flooding the first Ruth sea water, thus condemning the villagers to either move of famish. The dragon can gloat about the PCs destroying the village and it having the land either way.

[HoboKnight]

Amazing guys, just amazing. I'll be able to build some real nasty stuff from this and I can see them being easily segwayed into Tyrrany of The Dragon after this.

There will be no love for the Chromatics left. Awesome.

[Dr. Cliché]

Amazing guys, just amazing. I'll be able to build some real nasty stuff from this and I can see them being easily segwayed into Tyrrany of The Dragon after this.

There will be no love for the Chromatics left. Awesome.

If you'd care to post an update in the future, I'd love to hear what traits you went with and whether they drew the desired amount of hate from your players. :smallbiggrin:

[Lyracian]

May not be quite what you are looking for but in my game the ancient black Dragon goes by the name of "Father Dragon" and is worshiped by the local Lizardmen as a god.

Players have had to retrieve a staff of power for him that was stolen to stop him coming and destroying the human town. He calls them all "Mammals" and if they do not talk to him respectfully they get hit by a tail swipe. He has a "Survival of the fittest" mentality and mates with anything so there are lots of half/part dragons in the swamp to give plenty of monsters to fight.

[Nhorianscum]

Hey guys,

first, a disclaimer: I'm playing with a mature group that can separate game and DM from being a d*** IRL. Thus, this thread.

My party will start in a service of a Black Dragon. They were quite against their will pressed into service of an adult Black dragon with his own private army and he just wants to send them on some tasks. Some creatures to kill for him.

Now, I want to make this guy as EVIL as possible. And being an utter d*** toward the PCs. I want to brew some real hatred here and I'm willing to take a lot of material from "That DM" threads here, but - It is not the DM, that is doing this, but a Big Black.

When thinking of evil people, say, from popular media - does anyone really hate Hannibal Lecter or Thanos? Nah, don't think so. Even Eroll Childress, who is a pretty scary guy, is, IMO not someone, who you hate. Corpses of half-eaten children? A live elf with limbs slowly rotting away? My players will not really react to this.

So I want to go full meta - into the things that really piss people off. PC r*** is over the line IMO, but I still vividly remember that one time, when one DM had placed a Collar of obedience on my lvl 2 character (collar would do 6d6 dmg to my character whenever my character did something, my DM deemed evil). Stealing agency. Destroying magic items. Maybe imprisonment for a few sessions.

Of course the end goal is a violent death of mentioned Big Black (and hopefully, a great satisfaction for my players), but first - this guy does not need to rub them the wrong way. He must rip out entire tufts of hair.

How do I do it?

Thanks!

Also: Before making an answer, pleas re-read the disclaimer.

The dragon is actually an unpromotable middle manager at clawmart and communicates only through passive aggression.

[cZak]

Kill steal

The party slogs thru treacherous terrain, fights off innumerable mooks, burns 99% resources to finally have the BBEG against a wall and one cantrip away from death
And the dragon appears and stomps a foot down, making him slurry

"Now, where's that horde of treasure he had..?"