Nature Cleric's starting Cantrip?

[thorr-kan]

3 cleric + 1 druid from Nature domain for 4 total. Is that correct?

[Man_Over_Game]

3 cleric + 1 druid from Nature domain for 4 total. Is that correct?

Yup.

I needed other words to hit 10.

[nickl_2000]

Yes that is correct. You get a total of 4 cantrip (all 4 count as cleric cantrips when you are casting them, so the level 8 feature could add damage to it). 3 of those cantrips come from the cleric list and 1 comes from the druid list.

[thorr-kan]

Add in high elf for a wizard cantrip or a tiefling for their spells, and you can have some interesting versatility.

Thanks, all.

[nickl_2000]

Add in high elf for a wizard cantrip or a tiefling for their spells, and you can have some interesting versatility.

Thanks, all.

Yup, then you get 5 cantrips (although the Wizard cantrip is cast using intellegence). If you want Wizard cantrips go arcana cleric and you get 2 cantrips from the wizard list AND they are cast as cleric spells using wisdom.

[NaughtyTiger]

correction:
thorn whip and some other cantrips...

[Iku Rex]

(The "correct" druid cantrip us usually Shillelagh. Gets you a 1d8 one-handed magical simple weapon that uses your main spellcasting ability for attack and damage.)

[Dudu]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to argue against Shillelagh here.

Plus, magic staves count as quarterstaff, so you can cast Shillelagh on something like Staff of Thunder and Lightning or even Staff of Power.

[MrStabby]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to argue against Shillelagh here.

Plus, magic staves count as quarterstaff, so you can cast Shillelagh on something like Staff of Thunder and Lightning or even Staff of Power.

I think that it's good, but that thorn whip also has merit. The cleric attacking kind of falls off a bit at higher levels (although the nature clerics ability to pick damage types is nice), whereas thorn whip has some great interactions like pulling enemies away from allies so a disengage isnt needed or pulling an enemy into spirit guardians... and remember spike growth is on the domain list.

Clubbing people will do a bit more damage but thorn whip will tend to bring a bit of extra benefit on top.

Both are good though.

[nickl_2000]

I think that it's good, but that thorn whip also has merit. The cleric attacking kind of falls off a bit at higher levels (although the nature clerics ability to pick damage types is nice), whereas thorn whip has some great interactions like pulling enemies away from allies so a disengage isnt needed or pulling an enemy into spirit guardians... and remember spike growth is on the domain list.

Clubbing people will do a bit more damage but thorn whip will tend to bring a bit of extra benefit on top.

Both are good though.

I'm really, really hoping that they make the player option UA official where clerics can trade between Divine Strike and Potent Cantrip. I really want to make a Dwarf Nature Cleric that doesn't use weapons and doesn't focus on strength at all.

[MrStabby]

I'm really, really hoping that they make the player option UA official where clerics can trade between Divine Strike and Potent Cantrip. I really want to make a Dwarf Nature Cleric that doesn't use weapons and doesn't focus on strength at all.

I would like that as well, with some reservations.

I think on the plus side it makes the class more customisable and more interesting to play and helps support a more diversevision of characters.

On the other hand I think the alternative is quite a boost right at the levels where cleric is arguably at its strongest. With the d8 being damage on all spells, not just cantrips it means you can get your value out of it by say using your spiritual weapon whilst healing the party, or on an attack of opportunity or on spirit guardians. I jsut see the cleric getting this bonus on so many more turns than just a cantrip. Frankly I think it might have been better balanced at 2d8 but as the level 14 boost - less powerful when the cleric is already powerful, more powerful when the cleric begins to drop off a bit.

[Monster Manuel]

I think that it's good, but that thorn whip also has merit. The cleric attacking kind of falls off a bit at higher levels (although the nature clerics ability to pick damage types is nice), whereas thorn whip has some great interactions like pulling enemies away from allies so a disengage isnt needed or pulling an enemy into spirit guardians... and remember spike growth is on the domain list.

Clubbing people will do a bit more damage but thorn whip will tend to bring a bit of extra benefit on top.

Both are good though.

I preferred Thorn Whip over Shillelagh for nature clerics for a long time because Thorn Whip increases in damage at higher levels, while Shillelagh doesn't, it sits at 1d8+wis forever. This is mitigated if you have extra attacks, somehow, but a Nature cleric doesn't get extra attack. By the time you hit tier 2, thorn whip's 2d6 is catching up to Shillelagh, by t3 it's better. I thought with the range and crowd control options, TW was the clear winner.

But then I remembered that Nature clerics' divine strike gives them an extra d8 to weapon damage at 8 and 14. So, in this case Shillelagh (which is still a weapon strike, not a spell) actually DOES scale with level, 1d8+wis until level 7, 2d8+wis until lvl 13, and 3d8+wis after that.

As long as you don't mind being in melee and missing out on the potential control elements of TW, Shillelagh is the better damage option here, for nature clerics, especially.

[MrStabby]

I preferred Thorn Whip over Shillelagh for nature clerics for a long time because Thorn Whip increases in damage at higher levels, while Shillelagh doesn't, it sits at 1d8+wis forever. This is mitigated if you have extra attacks, somehow, but a Nature cleric doesn't get extra attack. By the time you hit tier 2, thorn whip's 2d6 is catching up to Shillelagh, by t3 it's better. I thought with the range and crowd control options, TW was the clear winner.

But then I remembered that Nature clerics' divine strike gives them an extra d8 to weapon damage at 8 and 14. So, in this case Shillelagh (which is still a weapon strike, not a spell) actually DOES scale with level, 1d8+wis until level 7, 2d8+wis until lvl 13, and 3d8+wis after that.

As long as you don't mind being in melee and missing out on the potential control elements of TW, Shillelagh is the better damage option here, for nature clerics, especially.

Better damage is so contingent on what elseyou are doing though. Shillelagh is great if you can make an opportunity attack every now and then to get extra benefit... but thorn whip isbetter if you have warcaster. Shilleilagh is better if you just need damage and its your only source, but Thorn Whip is better if you intend to cast spells like spirit guardians. Shilleilah is better if you can cast it before a fight to avoid congestion of the bonus action, thorn whip otherwise.

[NaughtyTiger]

As long as you don't mind being in melee and missing out on the potential control elements of TW, Shillelagh is the better damage option here, for nature clerics, especially.

I prefer control, I would take thorn whip even if it did 0 damage. Clearly personal preference, but my cleric has better things to do than whack stuff, she's on a mission from God(s)

[Monster Manuel]

Totally agree...better damage isn't the be-all and end-all of a spell's power, and it's entirely situational. I was just pointing out how it's easy to undervalue shillelagh at higher levels, if you don't account for the scaling damage from the cleric's abilities, like I did. But don't anymore.

[NaughtyTiger]

Totally agree...better damage isn't the be-all and end-all of a spell's power, and it's entirely situational. I was just pointing out how it's easy to undervalue shillelagh at higher levels, if you don't account for the scaling damage from the cleric's abilities, like I did. But don't anymore.

shillelegh on a druid is silly. shillelegh on something that can bump the damage is smart. (smite, hunter's mark, hex, extra attack, divine strike)

[Keravath]

High elf nature cleric with shillelagh and booming blade :) ... add in the cleric bonus damage increase and the one attack they get will stay relevant damage wise .. plus they pick up spiritual weapon and spirit guardians.

[NaughtyTiger]

High elf nature cleric with shillelagh and booming blade :) ... add in the cleric bonus damage increase and the one attack they get will stay relevant damage wise .. plus they pick up spiritual weapon and spirit guardians.

but then you have to play a knife-ear... eww.

[x3n0n]

One fun choice, especially for the early tiers, is VHuman with Polearm Master, Nature Cleric with Shillelagh.
That gives you more at-will damage in a bonus action when you don't want to spend a slot on Spiritual Weapon, and gives another chance to trigger Divine Strike.

However, you definitely are trading off the control of Thorn Whip and the opportunity cost of taking something like War Caster as the initial feat, which will get better in later tiers instead of tailing off the way the butt-end attack will. I probably wouldn't do PAM on a pure caster that expects to go past 14th-ish level.