Arrowsplit optimization

[Rebel7284]

I have been kicking around a bunch of thoughts about Arrowsplit, the 3rd level swift action Ranger/Assassin spell from Champions of Ruin which makes a single masterwork Arrow or Bolt split into 1d4+1 identical copies. It seems to be, outside of Shadow Pouncing, the single biggest way in 3.5 to increase your number of attacks.

Step 1.
Get it on all of your arrows/bolt
- Reach Spell
- Chain Spell
- Maximize Spell
- Empower Spell (How do fractions work again in D&D? It's round down, correct?)
With that many metamagic spells, we probably also need Arcane Thesis Arrow Split and perhaps a lesser metamagic rod or two.

Step 2.
Get as many attacks as possible, up to the number of splitting arrows/bolts you now have.
- Good BAB always helps
- Targeteer Fighter Arrow storm can give +2 attacks
- Rapid Shot
- Possibly two weapon fighting
- Arrow Demon's Symmetrical Archery
- Splitting bow, if I am reading it correctly, should add an extra +1 Arrow to each shot
- Haste/other spells can grant a bunch of extra attacks.

Step 3.
Make each attack more relevant
- Bonus damage (sneak attack/skirmish?)
- Ambush feats?
- Weapon enhancements?

Considerations:
- This is fairly easy to do for a level 20 character, it would be nice to get this sort of build to work as early as possible.
- Arrowsplit may or may not work with Spell Storing, but I assume it does not.
- Arrowsplit may or may not work with ongoing spell effects on the arrow, I assume it does not.
- Overcoming damage reduction is probably very important.
- While the sheer number of attacks makes attack bonus less relevant, particular builds might tank their attack bonus a fair amount with things like Rapid Shot/Arrow Storm, so making sure these builds can hit could be relevant.
- A lot of dice need to be rolled, and while many folks enjoy rolling their whole collection of D20s at once, this sort of build might slow down combat.

[Rebel7284]

Reserved for builds

[Biggus]

Step 3.
Make each attack more relevant
- Bonus damage (sneak attack/skirmish?)
- Ambush feats?
- Weapon enhancements?

Considerations:
- This is fairly easy to do for a level 20 character, it would be nice to get this sort of build to work as early as possible.
- Arrowsplit may or may not work with Spell Storing, but I assume it does not.
- Arrowsplit may or may not work with ongoing spell effects on the arrow, I assume it does not.
- Overcoming damage reduction is probably very important.
- While the sheer number of attacks makes attack bonus less relevant, particular builds might tank their attack bonus a fair amount with things like Rapid Shot/Arrow Storm, so making sure these builds can hit could be relevant.
- A lot of dice need to be rolled, and while many folks enjoy rolling their whole collection of D20s at once, this sort of build might slow down combat.

Improved Rapid Shot (CW) removes the -2 penalty from Rapid Shot.

The Force enhancement automatically overcomes all damage reduction, and Collision gives +5 damage per hit (both MIC).

[Gruftzwerg]

reminds me that I somehow missed to implement Arrowsplit into my El Mariachi build (see signature).

"El" is a dual (twf) double-hand-crossbow user.
Arrorsplit can be added easily to the build, since it can be bought as an Eternal Wand and added into Glove of Wands. Just buy enough to fulfill your daily needs.
Since the build already features a high amount of attacks (reaches +16 BAB, twf, "double"-hand-crossbow's extra shot mechanic) this will skyrocket our attacks per round. Even without counting "Splitting", "Exit Wounds" and "Arrowsplit" the build reaches up to 9 attacks per turn. (10 if you go epic with perfect TWF feat).
"El" further features up to 2.5x DEX to dmg and an increased crit range (17-20) and multiplier (x4). The crits give a stacking +1 to attack and dmg rolls (Stance: Blood in the Water) which will further increase the dmg output.
If you combine everything together you can annihilate entire armies of enemies within a few rounds.

and if that is still not enough, you could try out to squeeze in the "Lightning Mace" feat option, later mentioned in the replies.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Important note: an arrow doesn't stop being masterwork just because it's magically enhanced.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Arrowsplit is touch range, it causes the arrow or bolt touched to split mid-flight, and it must be used during the same round that it's cast or the spell goes away.
There's no need for Reach Spell, you'll touch every arrow you fire.
The initial arrow splits into identical arrows, and the Splitting property also creates an identical duplicate, so regardless of order of operations both occur on every arrow.

Archivist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?page=3&x=dnd%2Fex%2F20051007a) can learn Ranger spells, and gets up to 9th level slots.
Cloistered Cleric 1/ Archivist 4/ Divine Oracle 4/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Contemplative 10, trade Cleric turn undead for rebuke dragons in Dragon Magic, which can still be used to power divine feats. Domains are Knowledge Devotion, Elf, Undeath, Oracle, Spell, and Destiny. Play any elf race that can take Otherworldly.

Use DMM: Persistent with Divine Power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Choose Destiny, Bite of the Weretiger, Reach Spell Divine Agility, and Greater Anyspell into Draconic Polymorph into an Arrow Demon, among others. You should have Str 41, Dex 29, Con 37 with those cast, get two +1 Splitting Collision Wounding Marrowcrushing Composite Longbows that can accommodate Str +15, have Greater Magic Weapon +5 cast on each of them.

With Rapid Shot, you'll make four attacks from BAB, +1 Rapid Shot, +1 Haste equivalent for six total, which goes to twelve attacks thanks to symmetrical archery. Attack bonus is BAB +20, Dex +9, Enhancement +5, Morale +3, Rapid Shot -2, and Insight +1 to +5 from Knowledge Devotion (assume 1) for a total of +36, and you're rolling each attack twice thanks to Choose Destiny.

Damage is 1d8 + 15 Str + 5 Enhancement + 5 Collision + 1 to 5 Insight from Knowledge Devotion (assume 1) = 1d8+26, plus 2 Con damage from Wounding and Marrowcrushing.

Cast Arrowsplit with:
Twin Spell +4
Chain Spell +3
Lesser Rod of Maximize
Arcane Thesis -3, spell slot is 7th level.

That easily hits all 12 arrows you fire, each also has Splitting, so either Splitting turns it into two and then Arrowsplit does its thing on both, or Arrowsplit does its thing and then each of those split into two.

For each shot Arrowsplit goes off twice thanks to Twin Spell, turning one arrow into ten, and each of those have Splitting so that turns into twenty arrows per shot, for 240 arrows per round.

Each of your 12 attacks deals 20d8+520 plus 40 Con damage, so you can easily one-shot an opponent within range with every attack. Total damage per round is 240d8+6240 plus 480 Con damage.

[Rebel7284]

Good point about Archivist being a good way to access Arrowsplit, but your build has a few small issues.


Arrowsplit is touch range, it causes the arrow or bolt touched to split mid-flight, and it must be used during the same round that it's cast or the spell goes away.
There's no need for Reach Spell, you'll touch every arrow you fire.




Benefit: Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained


You can't normally apply Chain Spell to Arrowsplit exactly because it's a touch spell. There are a couple of ways to change that, but Reach Spell seems like the easiest if we're already doing metamagic abuse cheese.



The initial arrow splits into identical arrows, and the Splitting property also creates an identical duplicate, so regardless of order of operations both occur on every arrow.


Well yes, however, I believe that there is a strong argument that both can apply without stacking.
- Splitting breaks the missile into two
- Arrowsplit breaks the missle into 1d4 +1
Combined, you end up with 1d4+2

This is consistent with D&D math in general where multipliers work only on the base value.



Archivist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?page=3&x=dnd%2Fex%2F20051007a) can learn Ranger spells, and gets up to 9th level slots.
Cloistered Cleric 1/ Archivist 4/ Divine Oracle 4/ Sacred Exorcist 1/ Contemplative 10, trade Cleric turn undead for rebuke dragons in Dragon Magic, which can still be used to power divine feats. Domains are Knowledge Devotion, Elf, Undeath, Oracle, Spell, and Destiny. Play any elf race that can take Otherworldly.

Use DMM: Persistent with Divine Power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Choose Destiny, Bite of the Weretiger, Reach Spell Divine Agility, and Greater Anyspell into Draconic Polymorph into an Arrow Demon, among others. You should have Str 41, Dex 29, Con 37 with those cast, get two +1 Splitting Collision Wounding Marrowcrushing Composite Longbows that can accommodate Str +15, have Greater Magic Weapon +5 cast on each of them.

With Rapid Shot, you'll make four attacks from BAB, +1 Rapid Shot, +1 Haste equivalent for six total, which goes to twelve attacks thanks to symmetrical archery. Attack bonus is BAB +20, Dex +9, Enhancement +5, Morale +3, Rapid Shot -2, and Insight +1 to +5 from Knowledge Devotion (assume 1) for a total of +36, and you're rolling each attack twice thanks to Choose Destiny.

Damage is 1d8 + 15 Str + 5 Enhancement + 5 Collision + 1 to 5 Insight from Knowledge Devotion (assume 1) = 1d8+26, plus 2 Con damage from Wounding and Marrowcrushing.

Cast Arrowsplit with:
Twin Spell +4
Chain Spell +3
Lesser Rod of Maximize
Arcane Thesis -3, spell slot is 7th level.

That easily hits all 12 arrows you fire, each also has Splitting, so either Splitting turns it into two and then Arrowsplit does its thing on both, or Arrowsplit does its thing and then each of those split into two.

For each shot Arrowsplit goes off twice thanks to Twin Spell, turning one arrow into ten, and each of those have Splitting so that turns into twenty arrows per shot, for 240 arrows per round.

Each of your 12 attacks deals 20d8+520 plus 40 Con damage, so you can easily one-shot an opponent within range with every attack. Total damage per round is 240d8+6240 plus 480 Con damage.

I am fairly sure that trying to apply Arrowsplit with twin spell runs afoul of the spell stacking rules.


Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.


With that said, even with my more conservative reading (and after adding back in reach spell to make Chain Spell work), that's 12 attacks -> 6 arrows per attacks = 72 arrows = 72d8+1872 and 144 Constitution damage, which is not bad. This is also before two weapon fighting shenanigans adding more attacks (Gloves of the balanced hand are cheap)


Important note: an arrow doesn't stop being masterwork just because it's magically enhanced.

Considering that being masterwork is a prerequisite to being magical, (at least as far as weapons/armor/ammunition goes) I assumed that this was self evident, but thank you for saying this explicitly.

[Gruftzwerg]

Lesser Rod of Maximize
[/B]

How are you using the rod and a (2h) bow in the same round?

drawing a weapon (with min +1 BAB) is still assuming that you use a move action for something else.

a rod is not a weapon and thus needs the "retrieve item"-action which is a move action.

This would limit you to a standard attack action.

Even with Quick Draw you could (when you start with the rod in your hands) only make a full attack in the first round (while dropping the rod as free action), but would be limited to a standard attack afterwards due to the move action for picking up an item (the rod).

And let's not forget all the AoO you are causing while doing so.

Or is there a way to use your rods free handed like you can do it with (Glove of) Wands that I missed so far?

[Akal Saris]

Another decent build for this would probably be Mystic Ranger (Dragon magazine) with Sword of the Arcane Order.

For example, Ranger 10/Divine Crusader 7/Contemplative 2/Sacred Exorcist 1 could be an interesting build for it. Up to 9th level spells from 2 domains, along with 5th level ranger/wiz spells to fuel Arrowsplit and buffs, turn undead, and 18 BAB. (actual progression would pause ranger progression at 7 or 8 to finish 10 CLs for Divine crusader before going back to ranger for a few levels)

It would be less effective as a caster at high levels than the archivist build suggested earlier, and I wouldn't go metamagic crazy since the ranger spells wouldn't be granted to divine crusader's list, but it would probably be a smoother build to play from 1-20 in the role of ranged damage-dealer. Also, I love Divine Crusader so I'll always jump at a chance to use it.

[Biggus]

How are you using the rod and a (2h) bow in the same round?

[...]

Or is there a way to use your rods free handed like you can do it with (Glove of) Wands that I missed so far?

A Casting Glove (MIC p.84) would do it, although only for one rod at a time.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Regarding touch spells not being eligible for Chain Spell, adjust the build to include one level of Hierophant for Divine Reach. It still gets 18/20 Archivist spellcasting.

Regarding multiplier stacking rules, that doesn't apply in this case because none of the wording of those effects has any mention of words like doubled or tripled or multiplied. A physical object splits into multiple objects, and each of those physical objects splits into multiple objects again. Again, if the effect doesn't use verbiage that indicates it's a multiplier effect, then it's not a multiplier effect and that rule doesn't apply.


How are you using the rod and a (2h) bow in the same round?

drawing a weapon (with min +1 BAB) is still assuming that you use a move action for something else.

a rod is not a weapon and thus needs the "retrieve item"-action which is a move action.

This would limit you to a standard attack action.

Even with Quick Draw you could (when you start with the rod in your hands) only make a full attack in the first round (while dropping the rod as free action), but would be limited to a standard attack afterwards due to the move action for picking up an item (the rod).

And let's not forget all the AoO you are causing while doing so.

Or is there a way to use your rods free handed like you can do it with (Glove of) Wands that I missed so far?

You don't need to draw a metamagic rod, just have it readily available to place your hand on it. It can be hanging from your belt, you take one hand off the bow to touch the metamagic rod, then put your hand back on the bow.

Even then, the RAW description of metamagic rods states that possession of the rod allows its use, i.e. you're not required to be holding it in your hand to activate it.

[Crichton]

Well yes, however, I believe that there is a strong argument that both can apply without stacking.
- Splitting breaks the missile into two
- Arrowsplit breaks the missle into 1d4 +1
Combined, you end up with 1d4+2

This is consistent with D&D math in general where multipliers work only on the base value.


The multiplying rules and stacking rules you're referencing only apply to an "abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll)". These are not abstract numbers, they are individual, real objects that are the target of a spell, which are then after that also the subject of the Splitting property. So they either fall under the multiplier rules' text entry of "real-world values" or wouldn't be under the purview of that rules entry at all, because it's not applicable. Either way, Arrowsplit and Splitting will both apply and function normally

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The multiplying rules and stacking rules you're referencing only apply to an "abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll)". These are not abstract numbers, they are individual, real objects that are the target of a spell, which are then after that also the subject of the Splitting property. So they either fall under the multiplier rules' text entry of "real-world values" or wouldn't be under the purview of that rules entry at all, because it's not applicable. Either way, Arrowsplit and Splitting will both apply and function normally100% correct.

It's similar to how, if you managed to Extend an already Extended effect, you would multiply the duration by a total of x4, since time is a real-world value.

[Gruftzwerg]

You don't need to draw a metamagic rod, just have it readily available to place your hand on it. It can be hanging from your belt, you take one hand off the bow to touch the metamagic rod, then put your hand back on the bow.

Even then, the RAW description of metamagic rods states that possession of the rod allows its use, i.e. you're not required to be holding it in your hand to activate it.

I don't think so.. (SRD Link (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicMaximize))

The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are maximized as though using the Maximize Spell feat.
While there are some rods that work while in your "possession" that is not the chase for most rods, especially the metamagic rods. Those require you to "wield" your rod, not just "possession".

[Anthrowhale]

I don't think so.. (SRD Link (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicMaximize))

While there are some rods that work while in your "possession" that is not the chase for most rods, especially the metamagic rods. Those require you to "wield" your rod, not just "possession".

Just for clarity, getting access to an extra 'hand' is pretty easy by 20th level. For example, cast Girallon's Blessing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's also grafts that permanently add an extra limb, with no set limit to how many you can have.

There's also Boots of Temporal Acceleration which gives you an extra turn's worth of actions during the same round as a swift action, that extra round's worth of actions includes another swift action so you can use that to draw the rod (move action), cast the spell (swift action), then stow the rod (standard action) and still get your full attack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There's also grafts that permanently add an extra limb, with no set limit to how many you can have.The cheapest (and best) is the warforged mighty arms graft, from Faiths of Eberron, I believe, which gives you +2 arms (that can use warforged components) for 1,000 gp. Nothing in any of the rules requires you to replace your existing arms, although they can do that too, if you've lost them somehow and can't regenerate them.

[Darg]

While there are some rods that work while in your "possession" that is not the chase for most rods, especially the metamagic rods. Those require you to "wield" your rod, not just "possession".

Wielding generally has the implication that it needs to be held in hand. The scope of the word is actually far wider. An automatic shoulder cannon can be wielded without hands. That makes the user the wielder. A rod isn't a weapon or shield so there are no specific rules require the rod to be wielded in hand to be activated.

[Akal Saris]

The cheapest (and best) is the warforged mighty arms graft, from Faiths of Eberron, I believe, which gives you +2 arms (that can use warforged components) for 1,000 gp. Nothing in any of the rules requires you to replace your existing arms, although they can do that too, if you've lost them somehow and can't regenerate them.

Wow! Now I want to roll up a warforged artificer with 10 arms brandishing a wand, staff, or rod in each of them :D