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View Full Version : Optimization Never played a pure caster.... help!?



hitchhike79
2020-08-20, 05:37 PM
This is my first time down this pure caster line and its left me feeling sort of one dimensional.
I looked around for something like this and didnt see much, is that because lvl 15-20 wizards are just insane and no one dips?

I am playing a lvl 6 Hobgoblin Abjuration Wizard who just got his fireball a lvl ago and is tossing them with abandon... yay!!
We are a small party with a Circle of the Moon Druid, Warlocadin, an Arcane Trickster rogue and me.
Doing the Dragon Heist campaign from lvl 1 to 20.

My stats are 8 Str, 14 Dex, 13 Con, 16 Int, 9 Wis and 13 Cha

I have never played into the later stages of the game and i keep having this nagging feeling i need to be a little more versatile than slinging spells at range.

So my question is this;
While the capstone of a wizard seem pretty amazing, could the benefit a multi-class be better for our small party?

I lean on the idea of tinkerer due to it being Int based, and a lvl 2 dip for some great magic items on top of armor and a few great spells sounds great
The damage output increase from a warlock 1 or 2 dip would be pretty useful on top of some great synergies with Abjuration wiz.
The stuff from a bard is just pretty much all around good, though im not sure if id get medium armor like the other 2?

So i couldnt see more that a 18Wiz/2 other dip but i dunno.
I am well mixed with control and damage spells and having a blast casting them, i just dont want to end up being useless in an environment due to being only a wizard.
Using mage armor is cool but i have a decent dex so the medium armor could be useful, getting some heals and maybe even a shield bump the AC up.
I know im stuck on AC but ive mosty played melee characters so i can just look away from a high AC.

Anyways players and DMs alike, thanks for you input!

LudicSavant
2020-08-20, 06:12 PM
i just dont want to end up being useless in an environment due to being only a wizard.

Straight Wizard 20 is one of the strongest, most versatile classes in the game, and Hobgoblin removes one of the main draws of making them multiclass (armor proficiency). If you're finding yourself in an environment where it's "useless due to being only a Wizard," either the DM has made literally the entire planet out of antimagic fields or you've made some serious errors on a tactical/strategic level.

95% of the time the primary limitation of a Wizard isn't their build half so much as it is their player's mindset and tactics. Focus on learning how to use your spells.


Using mage armor is cool but i have a decent dex so the medium armor could be useful, getting some heals and maybe even a shield bump the AC up. As a hobgoblin Abjurer you shouldn't even be thinking about Mage Armor, nor multiclassing for armor proficiencies. You take Moderately Armored and never look back.

Man_Over_Game
2020-08-20, 06:13 PM
The thing is, the more Wizard levels you have, the higher level Wizard spells you're casting, freeing up your lower level spells to be used for utility. Being part Bard to improve skills isn't going to outvalue an extra slot or two spent on Enlarge/Reduce, or Invisibility, or Fly, to solve all of your problems.

There's a reason that when people talk about "balance" when comparing the Fighter and Wizard, the conversation doesn't revolve around "Damage" all that much. Everyone deals damage, it's everything else that Wizards get that people think is imbalanced.

Personally, I'd rather have a decent Rogue player just play a Wizard. There's a lot of power in the Wizard spell list for anyone with a bit of ingenuity.

Segev
2020-08-20, 06:21 PM
Your focus on AC is...a little misguided for a wizard. It's not that AC is bad, but you have mechanisms for dealing with it. Mirror image, when you reach third level, will give you immense protection from targeted attacks. Shield should tide you over until then. Especially with a reasonable Dexterity modifier.

As an abjurer, you also have lots of hit points. Which get refreshed with castings of shield, IIRC.

As you get higher level, with the party you've got, I think your divination spells will also play a solid role. The ability to use clairvoyance or arcane eye to see things on the other sides of doors or the like will be handy for preparing for trouble, and avoiding it entirely.

If you do want to get into melee and back out again, I recommend shocking grasp as a melee cantrip. It removes the target's ability to take reactions, which can let you escape without needing to use Disengage.

Projected Ward will also be a good reason for you to stay back out of melee, wherever possible: you can provide extra hit points to your allies.

I recommend you look for abjuration spells that you want to cast regularly, because Arcane Ward is your best class feature, and fuels your unique features until level 10. Spells, though, are your bread-and-butter. Look for ones that disable. Hideous Laughter has proven extremely effective in the game I'm running; any time there is one target you want to gang up on, the likelihood that it will make its save is actually pretty low. Usually less than 60%. It can make a fight trivial.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-08-20, 06:39 PM
Don't multiclass, it will only make you worse at being a wizard.

You're 6th level, what did you spend your level 4 ASI on? You should use your ASIs to boost your Int until it's at 20. Resiliant: Constitution is good since you have an odd Con score, and Moderately Armored gets proficiency with medium armor and shields.

Fireball is good, but not so great if there's only a few opponents. Have a variety of spells that attack different saving throws. Hideous Laughter and Hold Person and Suggestion and Slow are all Wis saves, Blindness/Deafness is a Con save, Web and Sleet Storm are Dex saves, etc. Often just one well selected and well placed crowd control or save-or-lose spell is enough to turn a challenging encounter into a walk in the park.

You get some of the best defensive spells in the game in Shield, Absorb Elements, and Mirror Image. Those remain useful at all levels of play so you've always got something significant to spend a low level spell slot on, even at 20th level. You've also got Dispel Magic and Counterspell, both excellent for saving your party from enemy spellcasters. Most of those are abjurations as well.

Falconcry
2020-08-20, 07:05 PM
I took a level of Arcana Cleric before starting my transmutation wizard. I’m playing with a wildfire druid and was a little miffed when he was throwing fireballs while I was forced to upcast shatter. However I feel as I level I will find my own niche and be more then just a blaster.

Edea
2020-08-20, 09:02 PM
...yeah, just go Wizard 20.

OldTrees1
2020-08-21, 08:42 AM
Even if full caster levels 18-20 are lackluster, a 2 level dip before 17th level nerfs you by 1 spell level. That is a big deal. So get to 17th, then consider if you want to dip.

hitchhike79
2020-08-21, 04:11 PM
Im glad i asked!
Thank you all so much for feedback and explaining in depth.

The idea of a lvl 20 Wizard just sounds amazing so thanks for all the info!

To cap everyones statement about being inventive with spells, i had an amazing session playing thoughtful wizard with control spells and big damage!
Felt like i was in the matrix with mirror image and having shield as backup AND my arcane ward.

I will really look into the Moderately Armored feat!
I think lvl 8 though ill raise my int up 2 and just ride light armor until 12.
The first feat i took which i regret a little was Magic Initiate (Warlock) - got Armor of Agathys, Eldritch blast and some other random damage cantrip.

Thanks again.

LudicSavant
2020-08-21, 04:19 PM
The first feat i took which i regret a little was Magic Initiate (Warlock) - got Armor of Agathys, Eldritch blast and some other random damage cantrip. Ask if you can retrain it. Eldritch Blast is a severe, crippling downgrade from your Wizard attack cantrips (since it's Cha-based and has less synergy with Familiars since you'd get Advantage on only one bolt), and Armor of Agathys is only good if you can use it with your spell slots (which Magic Initiate doesn't let you do).

Take +2 Int, Moderately Armored, or Res(Con) instead.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-08-21, 04:29 PM
Ask if you can retrain it. Eldritch Blast is a severe, crippling downgrade from your Wizard attack cantrips (since it's Cha-based and has less synergy with Familiars since you'd get Advantage on only one bolt), and Armor of Agathys is only good if you can use it with your spell slots (which Magic Initiate doesn't let you do).

Take +2 Int, Moderately Armored, or Res(Con) instead.

Hold up, a spell known is a spell known, so no matter how you learned the spell, if you have spell slots to do it you can use those to cast it. How is Magic Initiate any different from that?

LudicSavant
2020-08-21, 04:41 PM
Hold up, a spell known is a spell known, so no matter how you learned the spell, if you have spell slots to do it you can use those to cast it. How is Magic Initiate any different from that?

Because it's not a Wizard spell. See the rules in the PHB for the Spellcasting feature.

Also, from the official compendium:

If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.

kazaryu
2020-08-21, 04:58 PM
Ask if you can retrain it. Eldritch Blast is a severe, crippling downgrade from your Wizard attack cantrips (since it's Cha-based and has less synergy with Familiars since you'd get Advantage on only one bolt), and Armor of Agathys is only good if you can use it with your spell slots (which Magic Initiate doesn't let you do).

Eh. Tbf even with the compendium thats still up to the dm. And id say its probably a common enough ruling that its worth asking the dm about rather than assuming the dm uses strict RaW. And in particular a rather dumb RaW. (Dumb imo obviously).


For the OP, the literal capstone for a wizard isnt actually all that great. Its basically 2 extra spell praparation slots at a level where you have at least 25. And a couple of free lvl 3 spell casts at a lvl where lvl 3 spell slots are basically free unless youre running alot of encounters between long rests. (Arcane recovery lets you straight up get back 3 lvl spell slots on a short rest). This is wjy multiclassing from wizard typically doesnt occur until lvl 19 or so. Otherwise you give slow down access to fun goodies such as: greater invisibility, globe of invulnerability, wall of force, forcecage, wish...you get the point. Typically putting yourself 1-2 lvls behind getting your next tier of spells just isnt worth it

LudicSavant
2020-08-21, 05:20 PM
Do you have a link for that?
https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.01.pdf


Because the rules on multiclass characters using their single pool of spell slots to cast all their spells, regardless of what class it's from, seems to disagree No, it doesn't. Taking Magic Initiate (Warlock) does not make you a member of the Warlock class.

AttilatheYeon
2020-08-21, 05:21 PM
Do you have a link for that? Because the rules on multiclass characters using their single pool of spell slots to cast all their spells, regardless of what class it's from, seems to disagree:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/customization-options#Spellcasting

This isn't multiclassing. The feat gives you one casting per day of the spell at first level. The only exception is if it's on your spell list, which it isn't. So it's kinda lackluster. Tho as an Abjurer, it's not horrible. Remember damage comes of Arcane Ward first, so you do get to inflict 5 cold damage a little longer.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-08-21, 05:26 PM
This isn't multiclassing. The feat gives you one casting per day of the spell at first level. The only exception is if it's on your spell list, which it isn't. So it's kinda lackluster. Tho as an Abjurer, it's not horrible. Remember damage comes of Arcane Ward first, so you do get to inflict 5 cold damage a little longer.

Here's where I'm coming from:

If you pick Wizard for MI, you learn the spell but must prepare it as a Wizard does. If you pick Cleric or Druid, same thing, you learn the spell but must be able to prepare it. If you're not a member of one of those classes, you can't prepare that class's spells. If you pick Bard, Sorcerer, or Warlock, each of those classes has all their spells known readily available to spend their spell slots to cast any spell they know. It only makes sense that in this case you can still cast the spell using your existing spell slots, because you know the spell as though you were a member of that class.

LudicSavant
2020-08-21, 05:40 PM
This isn't multiclassing. The feat gives you one casting per day of the spell at first level. The only exception is if it's on your spell list, which it isn't. So it's kinda lackluster. Tho as an Abjurer, it's not horrible. Remember damage comes of Arcane Ward first, so you do get to inflict 5 cold damage a little longer.

Right!


Here's where I'm coming from:

If you pick Wizard for MI, you learn the spell but must prepare it as a Wizard does. If you pick Cleric or Druid, same thing, you learn the spell but must be able to prepare it. If you're not a member of one of those classes, you can't prepare that class's spells. If you pick Bard, Sorcerer, or Warlock, each of those classes has all their spells known readily available to spend their spell slots to cast any spell they know. It only makes sense that in this case you can still cast the spell using your existing spell slots, because you know the spell as though you were a member of that class.

In order to cast a spell from spell slots, that spell must be on the spell list of a Class that you have.

Magic Initiate does not create an exception to this rule.

hitchhike79
2020-08-21, 06:02 PM
The DM has been very flexible with the magic initiate Feat, letting me cast with normal attack vise CHA for Eldritch blast and using Armor of Agathys as a normal spell.

He allowed this because at level 3 we had two encounters that i could not damage anything and my control spell had no effect. Some ethereal undead immune to every spell i had and with no magical weapons at the time i was more or less useless and it almost cost us everything. So lvl 4 i took a ton of different damage cantrips and control spells along with Magic Initiate (warlock) to ensure i had a varied range of elements and abilities to use.

But you are right that normally this is how it reads;
"Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class's spell list. In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn from that same list. Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."

The armor of agathys has come in more than handy as damage, heal of the arcane ward and a hp buff. Its also ate through spell slots pretty fast.
The blast has just been useful for another spell in my quiver, i like the idea of the wizard having an answer for every scenario.
I will rethink the feat though if he allows the retrain.

Keravath
2020-08-21, 09:35 PM
A wizard is a fun class to play.

One common multiclass is to start with a level of cleric for the extra healing spells, spells prepared, as well as medium armor and shield proficiency. Typically, knowledge cleric fits well because they also pick up expertise in two intelligence/knowledge skills which the wizard is naturally good at.

However, you don't have the wisdom for a level of cleric and there aren't any really good choices for a multiclass that would give you more than another level of wizard at this point.

I agree with the comments about magic initiate (warlock). It doesn't seem like a good investment.

Given the way your DM is letting you use it, it is ok since it sounds like he is letting you use int for the EB attack rolls and use spell slots to cast armor of agathys. However, your main reason for taking it was to have different damage types for your cantrips ... I would think you would be better off getting the DM to let you swap a couple of wizard cantrips to broaden the damage types from wizard spells ... firebolt and chill touch are both decent choices. Using an ASI to pick up EB without the agonizing blast enhancement isn't actually better than fire bolt except it lets you roll more than one attack. The real synergy for warlocks is with agonizing blast and hex where the separate attack rolls act as a damage multiplier.

Ideally the ASIs you could use the most are intelligence to 20 (x2), resilient con and moderately armored for a big boost to your AC. It will take you to level 16 to get those. Using an ASI for magic initiate might have seemed ok at the time but I don't think it gets you as much as the other four I mentioned. So if possible, you might want to see if your DM would let you swap a wizard cantrip or two to cover more damage types if you don't have them already and then take either moderately armored or +2 int for your level 4 ASI.

Mercurias
2020-08-22, 01:26 AM
Abjuration Wizards are pretty flipping cool, and I'm sad that I'm playing a Fire Genasi Evocation Wizard because of how cool a hobgoblin Abjuration Wizard sounds.

That being said, here's what I've learned (and your mileage may vary) concerning playing a wizard:
-Damage is cool, but Wizards seem to get more mileage out of control and utility spells at the end of the day. You can easily deal great damage with only a few attacking spells.
-Be careful about your position. Wizards tend to have a concentration spell going during combat, and dropping it due to a failed save on an AoE hurts.
-Don't look down on low level spells. I destroyed an entire planned encounter with a single cast of Fog Cloud, a lv 1 spell (I actually felt bad about that for my poor DM...Remember to thank your DMs, friends!)
-When picking spells, make sure you find a balance between concentration spells and action spells. I typically try to go with a 2:1 ratio, because I don't want to clog up my casting options if they all require concentration. Bonus Points: Shoot for having a couple of options for bonus actions and reactions as well!
-Invest in magic gear which expands your options. Even a Wand of Magic Missile can be a huge DPS burst for a round...And they don't require attunement, so you can carry a bandolier of them!

Eldariel
2020-08-22, 02:09 AM
The DM has been very flexible with the magic initiate Feat, letting me cast with normal attack vise CHA for Eldritch blast and using Armor of Agathys as a normal spell.

He allowed this because at level 3 we had two encounters that i could not damage anything and my control spell had no effect. Some ethereal undead immune to every spell i had and with no magical weapons at the time i was more or less useless and it almost cost us everything. So lvl 4 i took a ton of different damage cantrips and control spells along with Magic Initiate (warlock) to ensure i had a varied range of elements and abilities to use.

But you are right that normally this is how it reads;
"Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class's spell list. In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn from that same list. Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."

The armor of agathys has come in more than handy as damage, heal of the arcane ward and a hp buff. Its also ate through spell slots pretty fast.
The blast has just been useful for another spell in my quiver, i like the idea of the wizard having an answer for every scenario.
I will rethink the feat though if he allows the retrain.

Yeah, an enemy like that does exist and it's the Specter. Those are rare enough but really annoying when they do show up. CR1, immune or resistant to everything except Force, Radiant, Psychic, and Magic Weapons. A level 3 Wizard has a hard time doing much to them aside from Magic Missile or gishing it up with Shadow Blade. Shadow Blade is, OTOH, one of the best spells against them (I DMd for a group with a Mountain Dwarf Abjurer wearing armor and using Shadow Blade who single-handedly killed a CR4 Shadow Demon on level 3 - and the Shadow Demon was abusing the hell out of walls and the environment).

On higher level, Synaptic Static kinda solves them easily but before that point the Psychic spells to deal with them are rare enough (though you can use Phantasmal Force and illusions in general to rather good effect). Using a feat just to shore that up is quite the cost though. Your own spell list and creativity does enable solving this too and it's pretty much the most difficult thing for a Wizard to deal with in the game.

Klorox
2020-08-22, 10:16 AM
The best dip for any wizard is *starting* artificer 1.

You get a couple more cantrips (GUIDANCE!), medium armor, a shield, and CON saves, which is something almost every primary caster shoots for. You don't even lose casting slots, which you would with any other half-caster.

That being said, unless your DM allows you to switch around your progress (and some do), your best bet is to stay single classed wizard. It's such a great class.

Eldariel
2020-08-22, 12:19 PM
The best dip for any wizard is *starting* artificer 1.

You get a couple more cantrips (GUIDANCE!), medium armor, a shield, and CON saves, which is something almost every primary caster shoots for. You don't even lose casting slots, which you would with any other half-caster.

That being said, unless your DM allows you to switch around your progress (and some do), your best bet is to stay single classed wizard. It's such a great class.

I dunno, there's much to be said for Cleric 1 (Healing Word, Bless, Guidance, heavy armor, shield, expertise in all knowledges/extra attack while targeting ally/any of the first level abilities - and e.g. Tempest Cleric 2 gets to maximize Lightning Bolt), Hexblade 1 (Hexblade's Curse + Magic Missile is absurd), Fighter 1 (sometimes you really want Fighting Style - e.g. if you go archery - and level 2 gets you Action Surge which is ridiculous on a caster).

Klorox
2020-08-22, 01:24 PM
I dunno, there's much to be said for Cleric 1 (Healing Word, Bless, Guidance, heavy armor, shield, expertise in all knowledges/extra attack while targeting ally/any of the first level abilities - and e.g. Tempest Cleric 2 gets to maximize Lightning Bolt), Hexblade 1 (Hexblade's Curse + Magic Missile is absurd), Fighter 1 (sometimes you really want Fighting Style - e.g. if you go archery - and level 2 gets you Action Surge which is ridiculous on a caster).

These are all good options, but none of them are INT based like the artificer.

I’ve seen plenty of wizards without the requisite 13 WIS to multiclass cleric, or CHA to multiclass warlock (most have at least a 13 DEX for fighter though).

Eldariel
2020-08-22, 01:29 PM
These are all good options, but none of them are INT based like the artificer.

I’ve seen plenty of wizards without the requisite 13 WIS to multiclass cleric, or CHA to multiclass warlock (most have at least a 13 DEX for fighter though).

Of course, my point is though that there are more than one good option. Sure, the multiclass ability score is a thing to remember but for many multiclasses, things you want might not be granted by the Artificer. Hell, one of the stronger martial builds in the game is Paladin 2/Wizard X.

LudicSavant
2020-08-22, 03:59 PM
I dunno, there's much to be said for Cleric 1 (Healing Word, Bless, Guidance, heavy armor, shield, expertise in all knowledges/extra attack while targeting ally/any of the first level abilities - and e.g. Tempest Cleric 2 gets to maximize Lightning Bolt), Hexblade 1 (Hexblade's Curse + Magic Missile is absurd), Fighter 1 (sometimes you really want Fighting Style - e.g. if you go archery - and level 2 gets you Action Surge which is ridiculous on a caster).

I wrote a thing.

Multiclassing for Wizards

Cleric
Cleric is a good dip for Wizards because it gives you armor + shield proficiency, an expanded spell list, 3 extra spells prepared (with a 14 Wis), 3 extra cantrips known (including the particularly valuable Guidance), and a subclass ability, all while keeping your slot progression intact.

Forge Domain 1: A +1 to AC, or a +1 to attack and damage for an ally. Great deal, unless you're in a game where you expect everyone's going to have +1 armor, shields, and weapons sooner rather than later (because it doesn't stack).

Life Domain 1 + Mark of Healing: This one is really good if you're playing a Mark of Healing Halfling. It's what makes your Aura of Vitality heal 120 hit points and all that good stuff. Other Cleric choices aren't even close for a Jorasco halfling. For a non-Jorasco halfling, it can still boost some things (Life Transference, Vampiric Touch, Healing Word, Cure Wounds, perhaps most notably Soul Cage), but... eh.

War 1: The only Wizard subclass that might care about this extra attack is the Bladesinger, and they can't benefit from the armor or shield.

Arcana 1: If you felt 8 cantrips wasn't enough, this'll get you two more. There really are enough good cantrips on the Wizard list that this isn't just a waste.

Order 1: Every single spell you cast that targets an ally allows them to get a reaction attack. Remember that yes, contrary to a common misconception, characters in an AoE count as targets RAW and RAI and yes, if you're an Evoker Sculpting around allies, it still triggers this.

Nature 1: If you want extra cantrips known, Arcana is better. There's just nothing you really want on the Druid list.

Death 1: Toll the Dead is one of the best attack cantrips, and this'll let you twin it at will. What's not to love?

Grave 1: Not good for you. Even if you wanted to be a healer Wizard, this isn't even close to being as good as the Life Cleric dip.

Knowledge 1: 2 extra proficiencies, and Expertise in them, which officially gives you as much proficiency and Expertise as a Rogue... before you cast Guidance and just completely blow them out of the water. That, plus the fact that you're maxing your Int, means this makes you very good indeed at whichever knowledge checks you pick. Don't forget all the things that those skills do; for example, Arcana can be used to detect and disarm magic traps.

Tempest 2: 2-3 modest reactions isn't worthless, but it's not worth a whole lot either. If you're taking this, it's probably because at some point you want to take Tempest level 2 and start maximizing some lightning/thunder damage. An exception to the usual rule where you don't really want to consider Cleric 2.

Trickery 1: Basically allows you to give someone Advantage on stealth all day every day. That's pretty handy if anyone in your party (or even just your familiar) likes to use Stealth.

Light 1: The ability to inflict Disadvantage on attacks as a reaction 2-3 times a day (depending on your Wisdom) might seem attractive, but it makes a smaller mathematical difference than you might think. Since it has to be declared before you know if the attack hits or misses, there's a high mathematical chance of it being wasted. The chance of the enemy missing you without Disadvantage, plus the chance of the enemy hitting you despite it, adds up to the chance of the ability being wasted. Turns out that this doesn't get much better or worse regardless of your AC, since a high AC makes them more likely to miss regardless, while a low one makes them more likely hit regardless. It also can only affect a single attack, and means you can't use a heavier duty reaction like Shield or Counterspell later in the turn if needed.

Artificer 1
So on the one hand, Artificer gives you Medium Armor+Shield, Con save proficiency, full slot progression, 2 extra cantrips (one of which is Guidance), and 5 spells prepared from the Artificer spell list (assuming we max Int). And a small ribbon.

On the other hand, we've got a problem: Artificers must have their tools in hand when casting Artificer spells, even if they multiclass. Unlike other classes, you can't just use a component pouch. If your DM's a stickler for components this can be a pain in the rear, unless you have a workaround like Warcaster or Ruby of the War Mage or something.

So, Artificer 1 is thin on class features, so its value is going to come down to that Artificer Spell List it's adding (and how much you like Con saves over Wis; personally I like getting both and usually want the +1 Con from the half-feat more). All but 4 of those spells are already on the Wizard list, but at least you're getting extra prep slots for them. Of those 4, the only really notable one is Int-based Sanctuary, which is pretty good on a class that has so many non-damaging ways to contribute to combat. But there's still the component issue.

Overall I lean towards Cleric or Hexblade being the better Wizard dip, but this is still quite good if you can deal with the focus issue.

Fighter 2
As far as 1-level armor dips go, Fighter is perhaps the least attractive. Oh sure, you can get the Defense style for another +1 AC, but you could have gotten +1 AC from Forge Cleric. And sure, you get Second Wind, but let's face it, that's worth less than slot progression.

So if you go Fighter 1, it's probably because you eventually plan to take Fighter 2. Unlike Quicken Spell, Action Surge will let you cast more than one spell per turn, making for some mean novas, but at the cost of setting you a full 2 levels behind on your casting progression. I usually would rather have the spells, but it's by no means a bad route.

Hexblade 1
The Hexblade is a fantastic dip for almost everything, and the Wizard is certainly no exception. It'll get you two spells known / always prepared (I usually recommend Armor of Agathys + Shield. Why Shield even though Wizards already know it? Because I'd rather prepare an extra Wizard spell every day than know another Warlock spell), a regenerating level 1 spell slot, medium armor + shield, Wis/Cha proficiency (basically meaning you have a decent bonus in all 3 mental saves), and Hexblade's Curse (which is really good for Wizard damage combos, especially for Evokers).

Please don't take Eldritch Blast when you dip Warlock as a Wizard. I know you've heard that it's a good cantrip from internet memes, but it's only a good cantrip if you take the invocations and max Cha, neither of which is in any way remotely worth it for you. Good things are only good in their appropriate synergistic contexts. Otherwise they suck.

Hexblade 2 + Abjurer
Getting the second level of Abjurer will allow you to freely regenerate your Arcane Ward with Armor of Shadows, along with getting you an extra regenerating spell slot for Shields and another Invocation.

Rogue 2
Cunning Action might seem attractive, but if you really want that playstyle just play a Goblin and do it as a single classed Wizard. Better to have a race without an Int bonus than take 2 levels of Rogue.

Sorcerer 3
A dash of Metamagic isn't good enough to be worth deviating 3 levels from your Wizard progression, IMHO. Quicken is similarly expensive to using spells that give you good bonus actions. Twinned Banish might seem fancy but you could have done multi-target disables for similar resource investment. Careful is frustratingly finicky with what it actually works with. Empower is efficient, but not efficient enough to deal with the fact that you're upcasting spells rather than knowing the higher level ones. The only thing that's difficult to replicate here is Subtle and you might even be surprised on the tricks available on that front.

Seriously, just having a Simulacrum is better than most of the things that Metamagic does. So why delay getting one? Even if you're considering taking this at 17, after you've got your 9th level spells known, you're still looking at giving up Spell Mastery, a feat, and Signature Spells, not to mention carrying around that Cha 13 investment for the rest of your career, all for what, a little bit of metamagic at only level 20?

Paladin 2:
I suppose I could see this going with a Bladesinger, but the armor proficiency won't stack with Bladesong and you'll need 13 Str and Cha to qualify. And other Wizards are unlikely to find the smiting particularly valuable.

Ranger 1:
Pretty much anything else is a better way to get your medium armor + shield proficiency.

Druid 1:
It's like an inferior Cleric dip with a 'fun' discussion about metal armor attached.

Monk 1:
No, Unarmored Defense doesn't stack with any of your stuff and Martial Arts is worthless.

Barbarian 1:
You're joking, right? You can already get Resistance to, or outright 'nope,' many attacks, but you want Rage? You want to slow down your casting progression and invest in 13 Strength in order to get something that turns off your ability to cast spells while active?

Bard 1:
Just doesn't offer as much from a dip as other casting classes do.

Staying Single Class
There's an immense amount of value in an uninterrupted Wizard casting progression, and you should think carefully about whether it's worth it to ever deviate from that. New players often dramatically underestimate just how good Wizard spell progression is, simply because they don't know how to use even a tiny fraction of its tools to their potential. You can grow in power immensely as a Wizard just by adjusting your mindset and thinking a bit more about how various spells can be put to their best uses. It really is a class where one skilled player can legitimately defeat an entire party of other players using an identical build. If you ever feel like you're underperforming as a Wizard, the first thing you should be examining is your tactics.

Some races even will even give you the benefit of medium armor + shield while single classed. Hobgoblin is the best at this, since it lets you start 17 Con / 16 Int (and bump the Con to 18 when you get Resilient), and gives you the really excellent Save Face ability (which is worth nearly as much as the Lucky feat on its own), and you can just grab Moderately Armored with your first ASI. Variant Human is second best at this; simply by taking Lightly Armored + Moderately Armored it can get +2 Dex / +1 Int / +1 Con / Medium and Shield by the same point that Hobgoblin would get +2 Con / +1 Int / +1 Dex / Medium and Shield. Mountain Dwarf is actually relatively poor at this, since it's an ASI behind due to lack of Int bonus, and has no shield proficiency -- by the time it catches up to the VHuman in Intelligence, the VHuman will have Medium Armor and Shield. Githyanki is fairly similar to Mountain Dwarf, but without the movement speed penalty, and trading +2 Con for +1 Int, and Poison Resistance for some nifty spells (including a componentless Misty Step).

If you're a race that gets armor proficiency, there's less reason to multiclass.

Some races that don't grant you armor can confer significant defensive benefits as well. Warforged and Simic Hybrid won't give you armor, but will give you a straight AC boost which is enough to make your AC about as good as a Mountain Dwarf's would be anyway (and can stack with armor if you get it from multiclassing). Mark of Warding Dwarf won't give you armor either, but gives you a suite of potent abilities which synergizes especially well with the Abjurer (though it's great with other classes too). Svirfneblin will let you endlessly regenerate an Arcane Ward with the Svirfneblin Magic feat. Yuan-Ti will get you Magic Resistance and Immunity to a common damage type and condition, and its Cha/Int statline, normally considered antisynergistic, is just gravy for a Hexblade/Wizard combo. Winged Feral Tieflings can fly. Goblins can just Hide as a bonus action after casting every turn, in addition to some other nifty benefits. Mark of Healing Halflings combined with a Life Cleric 1 dip transform Wizards into one of the best healers in the game.

hitchhike79
2020-08-22, 07:59 PM
I feel like I just leveled up, thanks Ludic for passing the knowledge and opinions.