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PhoenixPhyre
2020-08-21, 01:35 PM
I've been (slowly) working on a set of (very very loosely) Incarnum-inspired subclasses.

The basic model I've been using is that each of the classes gets access to a list of "forms" (melds, effectively, minus the mechanics) and a pool of "shaping dice". They know (level-dependent) N forms each one providing a small passive benefit. Using a shaping die produces a short-term, larger active effect.

I'm worried that the current model (where they get more forms known as they level) as well as other, more fixed features, makes the class way too busy with too many features compared to the nearest equivalent, the Battlemaster (who doesn't get much beyond a few ribbons). But I also want to avoid "dead features", since that would make almost entirely dead levels.

Here's the simplest one, the Ageis Seeker (a fighter subclass designed to fight with a shield, Captain America style).

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## Aegis Seeker (Fighter)


Level
Features
Forms Known


3rd
Manifest Shield, Arcing Shield, Forms, Shaping Dice
2


7th
Shape Thoughts
3


10th
Shared Indomitability
3


15th
Spell Reflection
4


18th
Quick Recovery
4



Manifest Shield
Starting when you choose this archetype at level 3, you can materialize a shield of aetheric energy or enhance an existing shield. (De)materializing a shield brings one into existence quick as thought, requiring only an object interaction to don or doff. Enhanced shields are similarly fast to equip, and can be summoned from any point you can see as part of that object interaction. In all other respects, either form of shield (materialized or enhanced) gives the same bonuses as before.

Arcing Shield
While you have a shield equipped (either manifested or enhanced), you can use that shield as a weapon. It counts as a melee weapon with the light and thrown properties with range 30/120, base damage 1d4, and it returns to your hand between attacks (hit or miss).

Shaping Dice
You have four d8 shaping dice that you can use to empower class features or activate forms, as described in the individual features. You regain all expended dice when you finish a long rest.

Forms
Choose two forms from the Forms List below. Only one form can be shaped to a body location at a time. You gain the passive benefits of all shaped forms, and can activate them using shaping dice as described in their individual entries. You learn one additional form at levels 7 and 15, as shown on the Aegis Seeker table.

Shape Thoughts
Starting at 7th level, you can spend a shaping die to substitute your Intelligence modifier for a Wisdom or Charisma check, adding the die result to the total for the check.

Shared Indomitability
Starting at 10th level, you can use your Indomitability feature when either you or an ally you can see within 30 feet of you fails a saving throw (instead of only on yourself).

Spell Reflection
Starting at 15th level when you are missed by a spell attack that targets only you or succeed on a saving throw against a spell that affects only you, you can use your reaction and spend a shaping die to reflect the spell back on the caster as if they were the original target. They must make any necessary saving throws, suffering the effects of their saves as usual. If it was a spell attack, then the original attack roll is compared to their armor class.

Quick Recovery
Starting at 18th level, when you roll initiative with no shaping dice remaining, you regain 2 shaping dice.

Forms List
**Angelic Wings**. While this form is shaped to your back, you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed. When you are hit with a ranged attack or fail a Dexterity saving throw against a spell or effect that would cause damage, you can spend a shaping die to reduce damage taken by the result of the roll + your Intelligence Modifier.

**Ankheg Gorget**. While this form is shaped to your throat, you have resistance to acid damage. As an action on your turn, you can spend a shaping die to spit acid in a 5' wide, 20' long line. All targets in the line must make a Dexterity saving throw against your Shaping DC, taking acid damage equal to the result on your shaping die on a failed save or half as much on a success. When you reach level 5 in this class, roll the die twice to determine the damage. Starting at level 11, roll the die 3 times; starting at level 17 roll the die 4 times.

**Beast Crown**. While this form is shaped to your head, you can add double your proficiency bonus to any check that allows application of Animal Handling or Survival proficiency. As an action, you can activate this form to attempt to charm a number of beasts or monstrosities equal to the number rolled that can see you and are within 60 feet of you. Targets must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the targets are charmed and will attack your enemies for one minute or until you or your allies harm them. You cannot control them directly—if no enemies remain, they will flee to the best of their ability.

**Bulwark Armor**. While this form is shaped to your chest and you receive a critical hit, the attacker must reroll the attack. If the new result would be a hit, the hit is critical, otherwise it is a regular hit instead. As a reaction when you are hit by an attack, you may spend a shaping die to activate this form. Upon activation, your armor class increases by the result of the shaping die roll until the beginning of your next turn, including the triggering hit. This can make the trigger be a miss instead.

**Circlet of Non-interference** While this form is shaped to your head, you have advantage on saving throws against charm effects, domination effects, or any other effect that would allow someone else to control your actions. You can spend a shaping die when you make a Wisdom saving throw of any type. When you do so, add the result of the shaping die to the saving throw result.

**Disruption Armbands** While this form is shaped to your wrists, constructs, undead, fey, and fiends no longer have resistance or immunity to any damage dealt by you and you have advantage on saving throws made against their abilities. You can use a bonus action and spend a shaping die to activate the bands. Until the end of your turn, you deal extra damage equal to the result rolled to constructs, fey, fiends, or undead whenever you hit them with an attack.

**Doppleganger's Vestments**. While this form is shaped to your chest, you can add double your proficiency bonus to any check that allows you to add proficiency with Deception or is made to disguise yourself. When you make an Ability check to persuade, deceive, or intimidate another person, you can spend a shaping die to activate the form, adding the number rolled to the check result. You can choose to do this after you roll the check but before you know the outcome.

**Dragon Mask**. While this form is shaped to your face, you can add double your proficiency bonus to any check that allows you to add proficiency with Intimidation. As an action, you can spend a shaping die to activate this form. Choose a number of targets equal to the result of the roll that can see you and are within 60 feet. Targets must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, they are afraid of you for 1 minute. Affected targets can attempt the save at the end of each of their turns, ending the effect on a success.

**Elemental Gloves**. When you shape this form, choose one of the following damage types: cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. While this form is shaped to your hands you have resistance to damage of that type. When you hit with a weapon attack, you can spend a shaping die to add damage of that type equal to the number rolled.

**Gecko Boots**. While this form is shaped to your feet, you have a climb speed equal to your normal speed. You can climb sheer or slippery surfaces without needing a free hand. When you make a saving throw or ability check against being shoved, moved against your will, or grappled or to break free from restraint or grappling, you can spend a shaping die to activate the form. When you do so, add the die result to the check or save result. You can do this after you make the check or save but before you know the outcome.

**Ghost Ribbon**. While this form is shaped to your head you no longer have disadvantage to hit creatures you cannot see as long as you know their location; they also do not have advantage on attack rolls against you. When you move, you can use a reaction to expend a shaping die and activate this form. If you do so, you can move through solid objects as if they were difficult terrain for the duration of your turn, but cannot end your movement within occupied areas or solid objects.

**Mask of Eyes**. While this form is shaped to your head you can see in the dark (including magical darkness) as if it were brightly lit for 60 feet and make Wisdom (Perception) checks at advantage. When you roll initiative, you can activate this form by spending a shaping die. When you do so, add the shaping die result to your initiative total.

**Ogre-grip Gauntlets**. While this form is shaped to your hands, you can grapple creatures up two two sizes larger (instead of one size) and when you successfully shove a creature, you can move it 10 feet instead of 5 feet. When you make a grapple or shove attempt, you can spend a shaping die and add the number rolled to the check result.

**Shadow Cloak**. While this form is shaped to your back, you make Dexterity (Stealth) checks at advantage, and while hidden in dim light you are not revealed even if you leave cover as long as you end your turn in cover. When you hit with an attack from hiding, you can spend a shaping die and add the result to the damage done.

**Thunderstep Boots**. While this form is shaped to your feet, your movement speed increases by 10 feet. If you hit with an attack after moving more than 20 feet, you can spend a shaping die to activate the boots to deal thunder damage equal to the number rolled and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save they are knocked prone.

Yakk
2020-08-21, 02:19 PM
At-will flight at 3 is ridiculously strong.

Daily shaping dice make the active abilities not very used until level 18.

1d8 damage from a die is a weak effect.
1d8 reaction-ac from a die is a strong effect.
2 expertise is a strong feature at level 3.
Your shield interacts in bad ways with dueling style.
9 times out of 10, when you spend a shaping die, you should roll it.
Your mask of eyes doesn't help in dim light.

This has the same problem as the BM -- you don't get stronger maneuvers, you in general get weaker ones as you gain levels. The BM attempts to patch this with more and bigger dice.

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There is lots of lingo. "Shaping", "Shaping dice", "forms". Reduce that.

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Your shield wording is really awkward. Steal from pact weapon.

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The class's theme is split. The shield and the shaping. There doesn't seem to be anything unifying.

Might I suggest a unifying theme. "Wards". Wards are magical marks burnt into your flesh.

Aegis Ward is your shield. It goes on your arm. You gain it at level 3. You can absorb a magical shield you have attuned and gain its benefits.

Keravnos Ward is your weapon. It goes on your other arm.

Panoplía Ward is your armor. It goes on your chest.

Theama ward is your vision. It goes on your face.

You can then hand out those wards at fixed levels.

By having them at fixed levels, the "slot" they go in becomes more clear.

PhoenixPhyre
2020-08-21, 02:43 PM
At-will flight at 3 is ridiculously strong.


Even at a cost of 1/2 (eventually 1/4) of your known stuff? When there are races that get it at level 1 with very few restriction?



Daily shaping dice make the active abilities not very used until level 18.


I could do fewer, SR ones.



1. 1d8 damage from a die is a weak effect.
2. 1d8 reaction-ac from a die is a strong effect.
3. 2 expertise is a strong feature at level 3.
4. Your shield interacts in bad ways with dueling style.
5. 9 times out of 10, when you spend a shaping die, you should roll it.
6. Your mask of eyes doesn't help in dim light.


1. Probably right. Numbers are currently in flux.
2. That's about the same (on average) as shield (0.5 weaker in fact) and you can only do it 4x/day if you burn all your resources, plus 1/2 to 1/4 of your total forms choices. Does that change the calculus?
3. Rogue gets it in their choice of skills at level 1. And Animal Handling is really darn weak, and the active ability here isn't great either.
4. Hmm. Probably right.
5. Yeah. Ghost Ribbon should probably include the result of the roll. And they all need reworded for clarity.
6. It's not supposed to. It's like inverse darkvision, and stacks with it. Turns darkness into daylight, but does nothing for shadow.



This has the same problem as the BM -- you don't get stronger maneuvers, you in general get weaker ones as you gain levels. The BM attempts to patch this with more and bigger dice.


I'd rather not do bigger dice (feels too much like maneuvers redux)...maybe gate some of the forms? So you get utility forms earlier and more combat-effective ones later? Or the reverse...Hmm.




There is lots of lingo. "Shaping", "Shaping dice", "forms". Reduce that.


I tried to follow the BM pattern (and the ones from recent UA) for style--maneuver dice, maneuvers, etc. So the only one out is shaping, which is a legacy of the source and could probably go away.

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Your shield wording is really awkward. Steal from pact weapon.


Probably a good idea. I do want to keep it useful as a bonus action attack (effectively a bludgeoning dagger offhand).




The class's theme is split. The shield and the shaping. There doesn't seem to be anything unifying.

Might I suggest a unifying theme. "Wards". Wards are magical marks burnt into your flesh.

Aegis Ward is your shield. It goes on your arm. You gain it at level 3. You can absorb a magical shield you have attuned and gain its benefits.

Keravnos Ward is your weapon. It goes on your other arm.

Panoplía Ward is your armor. It goes on your chest.

Theama ward is your vision. It goes on your face.

You can then hand out those wards at fixed levels.

By having them at fixed levels, the "slot" they go in becomes more clear.

The unifying theme is (which is more clear if I'd included the fluff portions) creating "pseudo-items" as energy constructs by understanding the Platonic Forms of those things. This is shared with the source material (of which this is a tremendous simplification and adaptation, not a direct copy). In this case, the shield is their "pet" thing, and the forms are shared between all the planned subclasses using this mechanic. Each of which has different progression but the same forms + shaping dice + something unique structure.

The other subclasses are planned for Barbarian (with a special thing of enabling 2WF more cleanly) and rogue (archery focused). All share a sub-thread of anti-magic--as a setting fact the Seekers (the general name for this whole type of form-shaping) and magic users are traditionally at odds due to the effects of magic on the field that the seekers draw from. That's part of why there's that spell reflection feature.

Old Harry MTX
2020-08-21, 04:07 PM
You can add a minimum level prerequisite to that level, or maybe add at a certain level the ability to use both forms together.