If all Race-Class-Combos were equally effective - what would you play?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

this is a thread for optimizers inspired by another thread in the forum (so if effectiveness doesn't play into your rational when picking a character, this may not be for you).

Sooo... If all existing race-class-combos were equally effective - what would you play?

The assumption is that at the table all races and all classes are equally good and no combination of race and class is better than the other (I have no idea how this was done).

Would this change your picks and if so - how would it change what you would like to play?

I would probably like to try a Four Elements Monk from a monstrous race, Bugbear for example or Orc. Or maybe a Leonin for a more regal monk...

[sithlordnergal]

Orc Wizard to be sure, followed by Kobold Barbarian and a Halfling Paladin that rides a mastiff and dual wields Lances.

Those ideas sound absolutely amazing to me, but I can't really do them. The Halfling is do-able, but only just barely. But a Kobold Barbarian or an Orc Wizard? I'd never be able to do them. You'd start out with such a bad handicap for both thanks to the -2 to your primary stats. Thankfully Belts of Giant Strength exist, so the Kobold Barbarian gets off a little bit easier, but the Orc Wizard? They'd be in big trouble.

To make it worse, in order to get those primary abilities up to par you'd need to put at least 3 ASI's into them. Meaning you won't become decent at what you do until level 12.

[Amechra]

There are a few races that would love to combo with the Monk if they didn't, you know, involve screwing yourself over.


Kalashtar. Being a Monk is part of their whole stereotype, so making a really good one would be great. +2 Wis/+1 Cha... yeah, that's just not doing it for me.
Half-Orc. I just really want to try out a Kensei with Savage Attacks and Orcish Fury, alright? It would make for a neat mini-smiter.
Warforged. Because robot martial arts are cool.


I think this kind of "everything is equally good" thing is going to be best for Monks and Paladins, since they're the ones that push you towards specific races at the moment.

[Eldariel]

Elf Rogue sounds pretty cool. Though this has the issue that WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CLASSES AND RACES WOULD LOOK LIKE. Them all being balanced and class name isn't sufficient information: Elf can take a thousand mechanical guises as can Rogue and while all can be balanced, some of them would be quite close to my fantasy while others worlds apart.

This is incidentally why I only play casters: not because the other concepts don't appeal to me but because the mechanical realisation of the other classes doesn't appeal to me. And when I play, I'm playing the mechanics, not the fluff. I can effortlessly fluff a mechanical Wizard as a thief and charlatan but trying to do the opposite will just get me punched in the groin by game mechanics.

[JackPhoenix]

Human whatever. Propably not rangers and druids, though.... no matter the effectiveness, I don't like the flavor. I have no need to do something weird just because it suddenly works.

[Babale]

Orc Wizard to be sure, followed by Kobold Barbarian and a Halfling Paladin that rides a mastiff and dual wields Lances.

Those ideas sound absolutely amazing to me, but I can't really do them. The Halfling is do-able, but only just barely. But a Kobold Barbarian or an Orc Wizard? I'd never be able to do them. You'd start out with such a bad handicap for both thanks to the -2 to your primary stats. Thankfully Belts of Giant Strength exist, so the Kobold Barbarian gets off a little bit easier, but the Orc Wizard? They'd be in big trouble.

To make it worse, in order to get those primary abilities up to par you'd need to put at least 3 ASI's into them. Meaning you won't become decent at what you do until level 12.

Orc wizards are perfectly playable. Yeah, you don't start out with fantastic intelligence, so your DCs are a bit lower, but it really isn't the end of the world.... same goes for a kobold barbarian. -2 to your primary stat is perfectly playable.

[NaughtyTiger]

Beastmaster or druid. anything but knife-ears.

[Naanomi]

‘Equally good’ meaning no relevant racial traits at all? Kenku Scribe Mage (UA) copying ancient tomes for the grand library

‘Equally good’ meaning keep racial traits but can place stats? Kobold Battlesmith piloting her mech with pack tactics

[Rakoa]

Orc wizards are perfectly playable. Yeah, you don't start out with fantastic intelligence, so your DCs are a bit lower, but it really isn't the end of the world.... same goes for a kobold barbarian. -2 to your primary stat is perfectly playable.

Nobody said it isn't playable. Literally anything is playable. That's a useless statement.

[False God]

Warforged druid, because BEAST WARS!

[Amechra]

Orc wizards are perfectly playable. Yeah, you don't start out with fantastic intelligence, so your DCs are a bit lower, but it really isn't the end of the world.... same goes for a kobold barbarian. -2 to your primary stat is perfectly playable.


Nobody said it isn't playable. Literally anything is playable. That's a useless statement.

Guys, this is not the thread for this. This is a thread for the kind of people who feel bad when they don't pick a race with the "right" stat bonuses.

If you're fine with playing an orc wizard, bully for you¹... but this isn't the thread for you.

¹ I mean, I'll question your life choices, what with having a starting Intelligence capped at 13 unless you're rolling for stats. That's not "a bit lower", that's "people with a +0 save modifier have a 50% chance of passing their saves against my spells".

[LibraryOgre]

4th edition. ;-)

Seriously, though, I've always liked being a gnome or hobgoblin bard, it's just seldom effective in the way I want it to be.

[da newt]

An entire party of Aarokocra, or a party of all Gobliniods, or a party of all Warforged... just something different that also makes the party obvious outsiders in most places. I think it would add and interesting spin.

[sithlordnergal]

Orc wizards are perfectly playable. Yeah, you don't start out with fantastic intelligence, so your DCs are a bit lower, but it really isn't the end of the world.... same goes for a kobold barbarian. -2 to your primary stat is perfectly playable.

I'm surprised you could actually play such a build and not be infuriated by it. My absolute minimum for any casting build is a 16. I've tried playing a Cleric with a 14 Wisdom, and it was terrible. I eventually tossed the character because it was just unplayable because everything made the saving throw. I couldn't imagine having a 12, you'd be such a useless caster.

[KittenMagician]

I'm surprised you could actually play such a build and not be infuriated by it. My absolute minimum for any casting build is a 16. I've tried playing a Cleric with a 14 Wisdom, and it was terrible. I eventually tossed the character because it was just unplayable because everything made the saving throw. I couldn't imagine having a 12, you'd be such a useless caster.

I have actually had an orc wizard as a PC. using your int as your dump stat isnt the end all of the build. just pick spells that dont care about your particular stat. magic missile, haste, the enlarge half of enlarge/reduce, sleep, find familiar. you just have to be smart as a player. be a super strong/buff wizard thats dumb. maybe work with your DM and you have been cursed with orc-ism and stupidity. i think it would be tons of fun.

as far as the real purpose of this thread, i already ignore "bad" race class combos. i build whatever i think would be fun storywise. the things i like to theory craft the most though involve multiclassing. my favorite is lvl2 moon druid/1 rogue/1 monk/1 barbarian as the base and just run around surprising people with my furious bear karate chops.

[sithlordnergal]

I have actually had an orc wizard as a PC. using your int as your dump stat isnt the end all of the build. just pick spells that dont care about your particular stat. magic missile, haste, the enlarge half of enlarge/reduce, sleep, find familiar. you just have to be smart as a player. be a super strong/buff wizard thats dumb. maybe work with your DM and you have been cursed with orc-ism and stupidity. i think it would be tons of fun.

Yeaaah...no. That sort of ineffectiveness is unacceptable to me. You need to reach level 12 just to become competent, while everyone else is competent at level 4. Even with my weirdest builds, where I only take up to 4 levels in any one class, thereby denying myself 3rd level spells and extra attack, I always make sure to have a decent primary stat.

As I said, playing a Cleric with a 14 Wisdom was just horrible. I couldn't do it, eventually retired the character at level 6 and brought in something a bit less interesting RP wise but far better optimized. I couldn't imagine playing a Wizard with 12 Int, I'd be infuriated at all times and actively be trying to kill my character to make a new one if I couldn't retire them.

[Yakmala]

Goliath Wizard.

Backstory....

"Dad, I want to learn magic!"

"Leave, and never return!"

[Wasp]

Guys, this is not the thread for this. This is a thread for the kind of people who feel bad when they don't pick a race with the "right" stat bonuses.
This! :smallsmile:

On topic: I am also quite interested in paying a stealthy Dwarf Rogue or Swashbuckler of some kind.

[Kane0]

I’d pretty much never play a human, dwarf or elf, i’m so burned out on them

[Spore]

A Tabaxi Wizard probably. Curiosity is a cornerstone of both worlds. Probably Divination (always falling on your feet), but maybe Abjuration (is there anything more 'cat' than shielding yourself from cold water and similar?) or Necromancer (both for the Nekomancer pun and the nine lives thing).

The possibilities (and puns) are endless!

[togapika]

An entire party of Aarokocra, or a party of all Gobliniods, or a party of all Warforged... just something different that also makes the party obvious outsiders in most places. I think it would add and interesting spin.

I LOVE Goblins and Warforged!

For myself, Goblin anything, but I also like playing things that are counter to the race even if the stats work. Sure everyone expects a Satyr Bard, but they don't expect one searching for his kidnapped fiancee and as such no longer "gets around"

[KorvinStarmast]

If all Race-Class-Combos were equally effective - what would you play?. All of them, eventually, unless I died of boredom first.
Yakmala wins thread, though.

Goliath Wizard.

Backstory....

"Dad, I want to learn magic!"

"Leave, and never return!":smallbiggrin:

[Edea]

Warforged Sorcerer.

[Ertwin]

Warforged Warlock

Purge the organics.

[Witty Username]

Winged tiefling wizard or bard, because the power boost of the other races would make me feel better about using the race option.

[Heavenblade]

Not exactly what I would call "not effective", but lightfoot halfling's CHA bonus feels kinda wasted on a ranger. However, a lightfoot halfling mounted on an animal companion with 2 level dip into rogue could be super interesting, cause you could pull off the trick of hiding on the side of your mount and shooting from behind it.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Ehh probably Lizardfolk Wizard.... hmm I wonder why?

[Wasp]

Ehh probably Lizardfolk Wizard.... hmm I wonder why?

Maybe because a Lizardfolk Wizard is completely different from who you are and what you otherwise present as, Wizard_Lizard?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Kobold everytime.
Orcs.
Miniatur.

I like monsteros races but they are just bad(the kobold is really good for some builds).

[Wizard_Lizard]

Maybe because a Lizardfolk Wizard is completely different from who you are and what you otherwise present as, Wizard_Lizard?

Oh Yeah that sounds about right, might be hard to rp but other than that it’d be cool.