The Negotiations Between Durkon and Redcloak (HtPGhS spoilers)

[Aka-chan]

The events of HtPGhS are integral to this, so there are going to be spoilers.

Durkon didn't really have a chance to talk to O-Chul or Hinjo in-depth between receiving his mission from Thor and approaching Redcloak, so this is all hypothetical. But I wonder if Durkon would have had a better chance of swaying Redcloak if he could have given him the Cliff Notes version of HtPGhS. Would he have been more amenable to a compromise if he knew that:
-Two humans who're now part of the SG prevented a massacre similar to the one the old SG perpetrated against Redcloak's village
-Gin-Jun, who participated in that attack, is dead (and got kicked out of the SG before he died)
-O-Chul and Hinjo reformed the SG

Basically, that the current ruler of Azure City and its current highest-ranking paladin agree that the actions of the SG in Redcloak's village were unconscionable, and risked their lives to make sure it wouldn't happen again. And they were willing to work with a couple of hobgoblins to enact that plan. Would that knowledge have made a difference to him?

[Jasdoif]

Basically, that the current ruler of Azure City and its current highest-ranking paladin agree that the actions of the SG in Redcloak's village were unconscionable, and risked their lives to make sure it wouldn't happen again. And they were willing to work with a couple of hobgoblins to enact that plan. Would that knowledge have made a difference to him?Why would it? Even if Redcloak believed it, that wouldn't give Durkon the ability to make a proposal that Redcloak might accept. (Also, bringing up O-Chul could (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html) backfire (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html).)

[The Pilgrim]

Would that knowledge have made a difference to him?

Almost certainly. Redcloak would have chased the refugees to their elven island and ensure the destruction of the two people whose mere existence casts dobuts over the validity of his own choices.

[137beth]

Why would it? Even if Redcloak believed it, that wouldn't give Durkon the ability to make a proposal that Redcloak might accept. (Also, bringing up O-Chul could (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html) backfire (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html).)

Bringing up Hinjo could also backfire (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html).

[Jasdoif]

Bringing up Hinjo could also backfire (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html).It wouldn't be a change, though. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1209.html)

[Synesthesy]

I don't know. While yes Redcloak has a personal reason to hate the SG, and that personal reason shouldn't applay to people like O-Chul, there is also the fact that while there was people like O-Chul in the SG, there was also people like Miko; but the main problem is not about the men, it's about the Gods who allowed it and who called it "lawful good".

[mjasghar]

Read #1211
Redcloak says one thing and means the opposite
He doesn’t want a peaceful resolution and yet claims he wants to negotiate.
Redcloak will only be happy when everyone and everything is dead so he can then self justify everything he has done.

[understatement]

No.

The Sapphire Guard is pretty much ground into dust. Revenge against Azure City is over -- before he leaves, Redcloak does mention that killing Thanh was "less satisfying than I remembered." He doesn't care about Azure City anymore.

What ultimately broke down negotiations (and in hindsight, probably doomed it from the start) is Redcloak's attachment to the Plan, which is something Durkon had no way of knowing.

What Durkon should've done to have the negotiations reach its natural conclusion is simple enough:


Pick up a copy of SOD from Haley, for starters.

He needs to cherrypick out the knowledge of a) Right-Eye's death, and the b) village circumstances.

As for b), all Durkon has to say is that the village was a valid military target and that the SG killed them all to save the world, and then Redcloak would try to kill him.

As for a), all Durkon has to say is "you wouldn't kill me like you did your brother, would you?" and Redcloak would try to kill him.

[brian 333]

The SG is irreletant to the current situation. Redcloak's issue is with the gods for creating his race as walking bags of loot and XP for the 'Good' races to exploit.

The problem is that no matter what the 'Good' guys do from now on, the past will always be there waiting to be used as justification for whatever atrocities Redcloak wants to commit.

Misdeeds of the past can never be corrected; they can only be forgiven, and Redcloak isn't the forgiving type.