Variant goblin enemies - what CR?

[Talyn]

I'm making some variant goblins for my 5E game, but I'm not sure what CR to assign them.

Goblin Netter (basically giving a regular goblin a weighted net and a weak sneak attack)

AC 15 (leather + dex + shield)
HP 7 (2d6)
Speed 30

S 10 D 14 C 10 I 10 W 8 C 8

Nimble Escape.
Vicious. Deals an additional 1d6 damage when dealing damage on all attacks for which they have advantage.

Weighted Net +4 vs. AC, range 5/15, 1d2+2 bludgeoning, and target is restrained until they use their action to make a DC 10 STR save to break free, or cut out (AC 10, 5 hit points, immune to bludgeoning, resistant to piercing).

Spiked bludgeon +2 vs. AC, 2d4 damage.

Weighted net x2.

I'm not sure if this guy should be 1/2 CR or keep him at 1/4.

Goblin Junkie - this guy drinks a potion and hulks out. He loses Nimble Escape because of his heavy armor.

AC 16 (heavy improvised armor + shield)
HP 9 (2d6+2), but see below.
Speed 25

S 10* D 14 C 12 I 8 W 8 C 8

Viciousness. Deals an additional 1d6 damage when dealing damage on all attacks for which they have advantage

Fairy Blood Potion. On the first round of combat, the Goblin Junkie will drink the Fairy Blood Potion he keeps in his inventory. This potion causes the goblin to grow to medium size, improves his STR score to 16, and gives him the benefits of a potion of heroism (10 temp hit points, +1d4 on all attack rolls and saving throws). The weapon stats below into account the effects of the potion.

Stolen pistol +5 vs. AC, range 20/80, 3d8 piercing damage.
War Pick +5 vs. AC, 2d4+3 piercing damage.

Possessions: Heavy improvised armor, shield, pistol with one shot, war pick, fairy blood potion.

I think this guy should be CR 1, but he's super vulnerable to a round-one sneak attack (so maybe only CR 1/2). On the other hand, he can one-shot a second-level character with the pistol if he gets lucky (so maybe even CR 2?).

Goblin Witch

AC 15 (mage armor + DEX)
HP 18 (4d6+4)
Speed 30

S 8 D 14 C 12 I 16 W 10 C 13

Nimble Escape.

Silver athame. +5 vs. AC, 1d4+2 piercing damage.

The goblin witch is a 4th level spell caster. He can cast 4 1st level spells (two are already cast, one for mage armor and one for his dread servant) and 3 2nd level spells per day.
Cantrips – infestation, toll the dead, prestidigitation
1st – dread servant, cause fear, mage armor
2nd – blindness, crown of madness

Spell save DC 13.

Equipment: silver athame, scroll of misty step, potion of healing (2d4+2 hit points)

Dread Servant is a homebrew necromancy spell that summons a single zombie that is basically there to take attacks for the caster - though they have some limited offensive ability, they are mostly a walking pool of extra hit points for the caster.

His strategy is to cast crown of madness on the toughest-looking adventurer, and then to hide behind his dread servant and the charmed fighter, using cantrips on weakened looking foes to try and put them down. If his dread servant falls, he will try to use his scroll of misty step to escape.

Not sure if this guy should be CR 1 or CR 2. On the one hand, he's significantly weaker than the CR 2 Priest on p. 348 of the monster's manual, on the other, he's still a spell caster with lots of utility and is relatively tough to kill.

What do my fellow DM's think?

[Unoriginal]

Just to know, have you used the Dungeon Master's Guide method to calculate the CR?

[J-H]

Using the Blog of Holding chart:
Netter: CR 1/4. AC & to-hit drag it up, as the HP is low.
Junkie: CR 1/2. His HP are too low to justify CR 1. Give him an extra HD or so and he becomes CR 1.
Witch: CR 1-2. His damage output is a bit harder to judge, but the save DC is pretty high for that level. Low HP for the given CR.

Don't be surprised if a 2nd level party tears through these like wet kleenex, bringing down 2-3 foes per round.

[Talyn]

I am building a dungeon for a party of 2nd level characters. The witch is going to be the final boss.

The party is well-equipped with mundane gear, including firearms and grenades, is a good split of mundane and magical types (two fighters, a rogue, a druid, a 1st level wizard, and a hexblade), and all of the players are veteran RPers and most are at least moderately good tactical thinkers.

I fully expect most of the party to die.

See, unless the PCs are going to be VERY smart in how they play, the goblins are going to know they are coming and have time to prepare. I'm not going to go full Tucker's kobolds on these guys, but the plan is to basically lull the characters into a false sense of overconfidence with two or three easy fights, then have the goblins fort up properly in their lair (the sprawling dungeons beneath a wrecked wizard's tower, plus their own excavations) and use goblin's Nimbleness ability plus small-sized tunnels to wage tunnel warfare against the party.

The goblins have hostages, so the PCs can't just smoke them out or bury them. Once they are in, the goblins are going to use the small tunnels to rig traps over the exit (at least, the exit the PCs know about), and lay traps with caltrops (lightly poisoned) and baskets of venomous vermin. Tactically, the Junkies are going to juice up and goad the PCs into melee, then the netters are going to try and swarm the casters and murder them before running. Regular goblins are there to soak up hits and do plink damage with their short bows while the netters do most of the damage.

If the PCs try to bail, I'm going to have the witch lead a counterattack and use blindness to keep PCs trapped in the tunnels.

I'm not usually a super-aggressive DM, but this is a new campaign with a specifically high-casualty, old-school feel, and I'm concerned that my players aren't taking me seriously. I want the battle to be 'fair' as far as CRs go, and reward smart tactical thinking on my players' parts. That's why I'm getting second opinions about these CRs.

[Unoriginal]

Why don't the goblins just block the door to their lair, then tell the PCs they'll kill an hostage if they even try to fight back? And once for each hour spent without the PCs surrendering?

[stoutstien]

normal goblins can pull all this off with just some mundane items and planning. the point of tucker's kobolds is you don't necessarily need 101 new NPC stat blocks if you just give them a stack of mundane gear and halfway decent tactics. nothing wrong with home brewed stats and i do so quite regularly but why do more work than is needed.

[Talyn]

Why don't the goblins just block the door to their lair, then tell the PCs they'll kill an hostage if they even try to fight back? And once for each hour spent without the PCs surrendering?

(1) Because the goblins ALSO want the hostages alive. They are the fairies that are being 'farmed' for their magical blood, and killing them would ruin that.

(2) this is a long-term camp, and the goblins need to be able to go in and out to hunt and forage for food. It's not a self-sufficient lair, and goblin appetites and self-discipline being what they are, the goblins aren't interested in a siege. Besides, if they can capture one of the spell-casters alive, they might be able to use his body as the host for the witch's supernatural patron, the ghost of the old wizard whose tower they are in.


Also, I really like coming up with tweaked custom monsters, it's fun for me. I honestly miss DMing in 4th edition because that was so easy to do in that system.

[Chaosity]

Goblin Netter remains a 1/4 CR, they might get bumped up to 1/2 if they actually use weapons they are good with
the vicious trait is kinda awkward on them as the only ways to trigger it is to attack from hidden which is hard to do with a melee attack or if their target is in a net which even the wizard will probably escape from regulary. If you want your goblins playing smart have them ready their attack untill after a net attack so they can cash out on that vicious attack

Goblin Junkie is kind of a funny one, calculated he's a CR 1 but his pistol seems out of place, He's actually better of to forgo the potion completly and just use the pistol cause the damage is insane unless he can drink it before the combat starts
You can play how you want ofcourse but i would honestly give him a heavy weapon and give the pistol to a nimble escape goblin who can make much better use of it or to the witch. It would be a funny sight to see a goblin with a weapon that's larger then him only to suddenly grow and smack people upside down with it. Also i believe his to hit with the pistol would be +4
Also tip be prepared on what the outcome will be if the players will drink the potion.


Goblin Witch is hard one to calculate as they seem to be more a controller then a damager but honestly probably would be a CR1 at the highest, probably even lower. Expect them to die without doing much. especially if your party is veteran RP like you say and they quickly realise that Crown of Madness is a horribly written spell.
I would change out Crown of Madness with a non concentration damage spell as they will probably already use concentration on Cause Fear. Melf's Acid Arrow seems kinda fitting and will be a serious treat to lower level as it is guarentied to do some damage

Also you mentioned that the party has acces to firearms and grenades. If they all do 3d8 like the stolen pistol from the junkie expect all the goblins to go down like flies. 3d8 is the damage of chromatic orb which is a spell that at that level normally can only be cast 3 times a day.

But in short. The Netters stay at 1/4 CR, Junkie CR1 and The Witch as stands also is on the lower end of CR1

[MrStabby]

For spellcasters I have learned to focus more on the spells known and less on the level.

Good low level spells are often better than bad higher level ones. And your 2nd level spells here are not great... OK blindness is ... OK... I guess (against PCs anyway).