Pathfinder 1E: Natural Weapons Questions

[Wolfswift]

I'm playing a third party class in a first edition Pathfinder game that gets a scaling natural weapons similar to how Monk's do with unarmed strike, but I'm also a lycanthrope with a higher base damage than standard for a medium character in my hybrid form. I recently found out multiple size bonuses or effective size increases don't stack together, but I don't know how having a higher base damage and scaling natural weapons damage should work. I also don't know how the creatures with higher than average base natural attack damages are calculated. If it works as one size higher or one damage dice higher? Would it stack with a class granted natural weapon scaling?

For specifics, the class is Gourmand from d20pfsrd publishing, or more specifically from the third party book Hungry Souls. DM let me be a weredragon, granting me a 1d8 bite as a medium humanoid. But I'm about to hit level 4 and I'm lost on how to scale my damage. I dunno if I should begin on the large track, treating my bite as large to start with or if I should be treating it like just one damage step... Essentially I have 1d8 base now, when I advance, do I upgrade to 1d10 or 2d6?

I've looked all around for information on how creature stat blocks with stronger than normal natural attacks for their size are calculated, it might solve all of this, bit I don't see it anywhere I've looked... For that matter part of me is afraid the advanced bite base damage of dragon and the bite granted by Gourmand might be seperate and not stack at all...

Another question is would I be able to stack Improved Natural Attack and Enlarge Person on top too or would this advanced base damage count as a size or effective size increase?

[Kurald Galain]

The gourmand's bite is a "virtual size increase" (i.e. it counts as larger, without actually enlarging your character). I'm not familiar with were-dragon, but as you describe it, it's also a "virtual size increase". Meaning the two don't stack.

You can stack one virtual size increase (e.g. the Shillelagh spell) and one actual size increase (e.g. any polymorph effect that embiggens you).

[Seto]

I'd go with the scaling provided in Improved Natural attack (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/improved-natural-attack/). So if you're 1d8 now, the next step would be 2d6.
There's also no problem with taking Improved Natural Attack and stacking Enlarge Person on top of that (provided your creature type is Humanoid). Your size would actually increase by one step, and effectively by another step with INA, which Paizo stated was okay in this FAQ entry (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t5u). But you wouldn't be able to stack Strongjaw on top of that, for example.

EDIT: Ah, I wasn't aware your preexisting abilities already counted as virtual size increases. This would invalidate INA then, but not Enlarge Person.

[Wolfswift]

I don't think the scaling base damage is a size increase or an effective size increase. Nor do I think that using a stronger base bite damage of a creature is a size increase or effective size increase. That wasn't even in question, however I do think they both set a base damage and I'm not sure if they can work together or if I just take the better. I'm kind of hoping with an enhanced bite damage to begin with I can just count as large for bite by base and use the large bite damage column of Gourmand while still being able to stack on a size increase and an effective size increase. I never even considered if these base damage increases were size or effective size increases.

Also Weredragon is custom, he let me use a red dragon wyrmling as my "animal" for lycanthropy because we rolled background and a dragon cursed me with lycanthropy and in our setting magic and magical creatures are illegal unless they're in service of a leading group of mage nobles, so my Weredragon form is more risky than any normal wereanimal. But it is OP. I tried to get Weretiger but he didn't want me able to just bluff I'm just a big Catfolk.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't think the scaling base damage is a size increase or an effective size increase.

The gourmand's maw ability says so.

[Wolfswift]

I see a line that might be interpreted that way "At first level, a gourmand gains a bite attack. This is treated as a natural weapon with damage scaling as a monk’s unarmed attacks, one size category larger than the gourmand. ..." However, I see how it is treated as a natural weapon with damage scaling as a monk's unarmed attacks, but the line about one size category larger than the gourmand part just seems out of place there, I don't know if it's supposed to entail a Gourmand being unable to take Improved Natural Attack or anything else. I also was more interested in finding out how some creatures have stronger than average for their size natural attacks. I know it's a stronger base, but I don't believe it's an effective size increase, barring effective size increases like Improved Natural Attack.

Also, even if Gourmand is unable to take effective size increases from this, a stronger base damage gained from eating something with a bite attack and choosing that natural weapon from their essence would still turn this right back to square one. How does having a stronger base damage work with scaling.

Edit: AHA! I found something in the Hungry Souls book not on d20pfsrd.com. "A gourmand may not take bite attacks, but may use any feats or special abilities the creature had to enhance their own bite attack." Which tells me 2 things. A Gourmand cannot use their essences to gain a stronger base bite, but they can gain feats that improve it. Even if they did call it a size increase in a weird way, I don't think they intended to bar Improved Natural Attack and such. Either way, this is something I will discuss with my GM once I can gather the information I'm searching for. That being how the increased base damage of some creature stat blocks works. I'm struggling to find creature creation rules.

Edit edit: Never mind. I've given up information gathering now and just brought all this information I've been able to gather here to my GM's attention, but he said he'd think about it later. I'm honestly fine even if he says it's all effective size increases and nothing can stack. It'd be a tiny bit frustrating, but I have other feats I can get. My bite probably also does enough damage due to the feat Slow Exhalation anyhow. It allows me to add my breath weapon damage on successful bite attacks.