Tank/Debuff build

[Morrison]

I'm going to be playing a game set in a 1920s Prohibition-inspired setting and I was thinking of making a character based on the old Hagspawn race from 3.5e's Unapproachable East book. It was a great flavourful concept, and could work in this setting as a kind of hillbilly moonshine Caliban type who's moved up to the big city. Maybe his previous gang were lead by a coven of hags but they got wiped out.
I'm just wondering what the best way to build this would be. I can probably get away with some pretty liberal re-skinning, so an actual link to hags in the build would be a nice bonus but isn't that important.

Basically I'm looking to make a high Strength and Constitution tank build that can impose some nice debuffs on enemies. Have considered the Hexblade warlock, which looks like a great subclass and one I may use in the future, but it's not quite right for this guy, since I plan to have terrible Charisma. Really going for a big ugly guy who hits things build here. Is there like a barbarian or fighter subclass with some good debuff abilities?

Unearthed Arcana stuff is fine. 3rd Party and Homebrew is a maybe.

[nickl_2000]

Your best bet for official content is likely Battlemaster Fighter or Ancestral Guardian Barbarian.

Otherwise, the UA Rune Knight seems decent for debuffs

[Morrison]

Your best bet for official content is likely Battlemaster Fighter or Ancestral Guardian Barbarian.

Otherwise, the UA Rune Knight seems decent for debuffs

Path of the Ancestral Guardian looks like a pretty good fit. Not too MAD so I can focus on soaking up damage and protecting my friends.
As for race I am leaning towards either Leonin (able to cause fear) or Goliath (can soak up a little extra damage, and being well-suited to hill country is a nice little detail). Thoughts?

[Morrison]

A leonin's extra movement speed would also be handy if I want to take Mobility and be a very hit-and-run focused tank.

[Man_Over_Game]

Could just make the Conquest Paladin use Intelligence instead of Charisma, as you overpower your enemies with your overwhelming willpower.

Heck, you could even allow multiclassing afterwards, since going Wizard doesn't really get you anything more than you'd get through Sorcerer (especially once you consider Metamagics).

[Morrison]

Could just make the Conquest Paladin use Intelligence instead of Charisma, as you overpower your enemies with your overwhelming willpower.

Heck, you could even allow multiclassing afterwards, since going Wizard doesn't really get you anything more than you'd get through Sorcerer (especially once you consider Metamagics).

I can probably get away with cosmetic changes but moving around the key ability scores of a class is something I doubt my DM will allow.
Multiclassing is allowed, but I don't really want to go wizard or sorcerer for this character.

[Man_Over_Game]

I can probably get away with cosmetic changes but moving around the key ability scores of a class is something I doubt my DM will allow.
Multiclassing is allowed, but I don't really want to go wizard or sorcerer for this character.

Realistically, it's a nerf. Intelligence is harder to use than Charisma skills, and otherwise the only complications that come up from changing one mental stat to another comes from multiclassing.

If you're not multiclassing (which itself isn't a problem in this case, even if it could be a concern), and Intelligence is worse than Charisma, there's not really any balance reason why it wouldn't be allowed.


It still might be denied, I just mean to say that there's no balance reason to (I've done a lot of research into the topic (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?578643-MOG-Mechanics-Prestige-Options-(Adapt-existing-classes-to-create-unique-characters)&highlight=Oath+Superiority+Paladin)), and I'm sure most folks here would back me up on that.

[nickl_2000]

Realistically, it's a nerf. Intelligence is harder to use than Charisma skills, and otherwise the only complications that come up from changing one mental stat to another comes from multiclassing.

If you're not multiclassing, and Intelligence is worse than Charisma, there's not really any balance reason why it wouldn't be allowed. It still might be denied, I just mean to say that there's no balance reason to, and I'm sure most folks here would back me up on that.

I will back him up on that. Charisma skill checks come up more often than intelligence checks. The amount of saves are pretty close to equal between the two. Overall Charisma is a more useful ability than intelligence in game mechanics.

Although my general rule with something like this in game is that you aren't allowed multiclassing if it happens. That way I don't need to think through all possible multi-class shenanigans (and the person is likely doing it for RP reason rather than min/max reasons).

[Man_Over_Game]

Although my general rule with something like this in game is that you aren't allowed multiclassing if it happens. That way I don't need to think through all possible multi-class shenanigans (and the person is likely doing it for RP reason rather than min/max reasons).

Ironically, the link in my above post is explicitly about addressing that.

[Morrison]

I'll run it by the DM. It would require a LOT of reskinning, though, especially around those tenets of conduct.
I was seeing this character as either Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral, while Conquest skews heavily toward the Lawful Evil.
I think Ancestral Guardian Barbarian would do just fine.

[nickl_2000]

Ironically, the link in my above post is explicitly about addressing that.

That link wasn't there when I responded :) I am interested in reading that when I have some free time though.

[micahaphone]

Ancestral Guardian makes a great tank and ally protector. I'd suggest that you don't need a race that gives move speed, base barbarian already does that. I normally like Sentinel on a tank but AG has a great use for their reaction already, the ability to mitigate or even nullify damage at level 6. When your wizard buddy gets shot and you can say "no he didn't", they will love you.

Cavalier fighter gets honorable mention as a possibility, and given your setting I could see you reflavoring the class to be less chivalrous knight and more moonshiner who's used to fighting cops and rival gangs while moving product.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Conquest Paladin would be great for this, despite it being Cha-based. Keep in mind that charisma isn't so much looks as strength of personality and ability influence others. It would combine well with Whispers Bard for more shenanigans of the sort that you're likely into. Going Paladin 7, or 8 for the ASI, or 9 for 3rd level spells, then Bard for the rest of your career should be perfect.

[Morrison]

Ancestral Guardian makes a great tank and ally protector. I'd suggest that you don't need a race that gives move speed, base barbarian already does that. I normally like Sentinel on a tank but AG has a great use for their reaction already, the ability to mitigate or even nullify damage at level 6. When your wizard buddy gets shot and you can say "no he didn't", they will love you.

Cavalier fighter gets honorable mention as a possibility, and given your setting I could see you reflavoring the class to be less chivalrous knight and more moonshiner who's used to fighting cops and rival gangs while moving product.

What do you think would be the best race for it? I've been looking at trollkin from the Midgard Campaign Setting as another option; the stonehide subrace has perfect ability spread (+2 Con, +1 Str) and a natural +1 AC bonus. The flavour's even pretty close to what I'm going for, but since it's a 3rd party book I don't know if I'll get DM approval.

[micahaphone]

What do you think would be the best race for it? I've been looking at trollkin from the Midgard Campaign Setting as another option; the stonehide subrace has perfect ability spread (+2 Con, +1 Str) and a natural +1 AC bonus. The flavour's even pretty close to what I'm going for, but since it's a 3rd party book I don't know if I'll get DM approval.

I have no clue as to the DM's setting or what would fit the world or how you're generating stats, so I'd say you have many options here. Goliath or Half Orc are classic barbarian choices, I could see the one of the dwarf stat choices being a good fit for a hillbilly moonshiner, I'm a fan of Lizardfolk (who are of course great in a swamp), if you wanted to be more a "child" of the hags, maybe you could use the simic hybrid stats to represent a hag's weird twisted attempt to create a servant, full blooded orc (esp now that they're errata'd to no longer get a stat penalty) would give you the move speed you're interested in.

[opaopajr]

Cleric + Bane spell. Rest is gravy. :smallwink: Have fun selecting a Domain!

[Morrison]

I have no clue as to the DM's setting or what would fit the world or how you're generating stats, so I'd say you have many options here. Goliath or Half Orc are classic barbarian choices, I could see the one of the dwarf stat choices being a good fit for a hillbilly moonshiner, I'm a fan of Lizardfolk (who are of course great in a swamp), if you wanted to be more a "child" of the hags, maybe you could use the simic hybrid stats to represent a hag's weird twisted attempt to create a servant, full blooded orc (esp now that they're errata'd to no longer get a stat penalty) would give you the move speed you're interested in.

It's mostly (perhaps entirely) going to be set in a big city. We're smuggling magic rather than booze - all magic is illegal in this city except for divine magic associated with a small pantheon of pre-approved gods. My character, if I do get to go with this concept, would probably be created by an annis hag up in the hill country, rather than some kind of swamp-dwelling hag.