[3.X] Wondrous Architecture / Bed of Restoration

[Thurbane]

I'm not overly familiar with the rules about Wondrous Architecture.

Specifically, I'm interested in a Bed of Restoration (SBG p.71). I'm wondering how portable it would be?


If the item is bulky but technically removable - like a statue, a tapestry, or a rug - the cost to imbue it with a permanent spell effect is 1,000 gp × the spell level × the caster level.


If the item is not movable at all - if it’s actually a part of the stronghold and would be damaged or destroyed if removed - then the cost is 500 gp × the spell level × the caster level.


I'm assuming a bed isn't attached to the stronghold, any more than a statues or rug would be.

This brings me to my next question...what weight and dimensions would a medieval style bed be? The description is vague: it could technically be anything from a one person cot, to a gigantic four poster affair. The sections in SBG about Bedroom Suites don't offer a lot of insight, only that beds can range from a "straw bed on a low frame" to a "four-poster bed made of the finest wood". Even reading through some adventures, I can't find much other than vague descriptions like "lavish bed", "huge bed", "bed made of heavy wood", "Simple bed" etc.

I'm not finding an equipment table in any book that specifically deals with beds, and their weight/size. Closest I can locate is a Hammock in A&EG, but I doubt that is what the Bed of Restoration, designed as a castle furnishing, would be. I'd rather not house-rule a Hammock of Restoration.

I'm hoping the bed would be small enough to cram into a Portable Hole or similar, to be bought along on adventures.

Shrink Item (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm) only works on non-magical items, and I'd rather not have to be throwing around Dispel Magic or similar to take do it this way.

So what would you guesstimate the size and weight range of a Bed of Restoration to be? Specifically looking at this item only, thanks.

- Cheers, T

[RSGA]

So, doing a quick look and a quicker bit of math with a double check courtesy of Google, I'm going to assume that this is a four post bed that can have a California King or Eastern King put on it with a little room to spare. So let's put it at a conservative 85 inches tall by 80 inches wide and a nice 10 inches of thickness each for the mattress and box. The posts and canopy are probably hanging somewhere at a foot or three below the ceiling, but while they need to be there to work the magic they can be removed for transportation.

And we are still probably underselling this bed by a good amount because depending on if you go by the nearest multiple to the price or the difference between what it should be by the given caster level and what it is, you're talking about a mattress that is worth 2000G or 10,000 GP. I'm not sure what it would be made of, but this is probably over 200 Lbs for the mattress alone, so let's say a nice even 750 pounds of magical rebound for absolutely everything.

[Laughing Dog]

I'd say it would probably be about the size of a modern Twin-sized bed at the smallest, but more likely to be around the size of a modern Full-sized bed. The frame would probably be somewhere between 50-200 lbs, while the mattress might weigh another 50, but that depends on how said mattress is made.

[The Random NPC]

Wondrous architecture gets a cost break specifically because they are not portable. So if you want it more portable, I'd make the cost higher, unless you disagree with how magic items are priced.

Addendum: Because of how unwieldy beds are, I'd say you'll need between 2 and 4 people to move the bed around if you want to have hirelings carrying it for you, and a queen-sized bed will easily fit into a portable hole. Since you have to provide the bed to be enchanted, just make sure you provide one with a small headboard.

[Bullet06320]

Odysseus's bed in the Iliad was carved out of a tree stump with its roots still in the foundation of the house

the Neolithic settlement at Skara Brae in Orkney, Scotland has a bed with a stone foundation and walls built in the house

that's 2 examples of ancient beds built into the house, that wouldn't be portable

but who says you couldn't just add wheels to make a big king sized bed and frame portable?
of course at that point it would just be a mattress in the back of a wagon, lol
travelling brothel?

[Fizban]

The Bed of Lesser Restoration follows the exact formula, 2nd level minimum cl at 1,000 multiplier for being "technically movable," and includes some of SBG's good writing on exactly what this "at-will/continuous" item does. The Bed of [normal] Restoration uses the same formula, once you remember to add material component x100 for unlimited use.

As for the size and weight- well I've never really understood modern mattress sizes. "Twin" is in fact big enough for an adult (two even if you're real cozy), and I would expect faux-medieval to use the smallest practical size unless given a reason otherwise, so I would expect that size for your standard SBG non-master-suite bed. But most people would probably expect "full," so goggle up a wooden frame and mattress of that size and add them together.

A quick googling says that a medieval bed would suspend the mattress on ropes, with the mattress being basically a big straw or feather pillow. It also suggests the frame should be higher off the ground than today to avoid drafts. The extra weight of the frame can probably compensate for the mattress not being made of wood and metal springs. Call it 200-250 lbs total.

The way to cheese this would be assuming that you can make a bed of any size that you want and thus making a halfling sized bed at roughly 1/4 the weight (half length and width), or even smaller if you have better shrinking magic. Grossly violating the stated parameters and intent of Wondrous Architecture in my opinion, as it seems clear to me that "technically movable" items are supposed to be movable between rooms in a stronghold but not taken on adventures. However, the other given examples for that pricing include tapestries and *rugs*, which are so easy to stuff in a Bag of Holding they just screwed that part up (a shame considering how carefully locked down some of the items are).

Either way, a 250lb bed is within the Bag of Holding 1's weight limit- but not within the mouth of the bag, as a 2' by 4' bag would typically open along the 2' end, which won't fit a 2.5'-3' wide bed. If your Bags of Holding are stretchy, or you can get a custom wide-mouth, or make a halfling sized bed, or build the item as a Rug of Restoration (or in keeping with the sleep theme, say, a Tatami Mat of Restoration), any of these could be claimed as totally legit ways to get the printed item adventuring party mobile.

If you tip it on end, even a queen-sized bed (60" across) should fit in a Portable Hole just fine, if you have the magic or pulley system to get out and horizontal and back in.

[The Random NPC]

As for the size and weight- well I've never really understood modern mattress sizes. "Twin" is in fact big enough for an adult (two even if you're real cozy),

Twin beds are called that cause you were expect to purchase two at a time, while queen and king was all marketing. Sleep like a king in your king bed kind of stuff. Twins are also known as singles, a shortening of single twin bed. A double or full sized mattress was considered the minimum size to comfortably sleep two people.

[Martin Greywolf]

This brings me to my next question...what weight and dimensions would a medieval style bed be? The description is vague: it could technically be anything from a one person cot, to a gigantic four poster affair. The sections in SBG about Bedroom Suites don't offer a lot of insight, only that beds can range from a "straw bed on a low frame" to a "four-poster bed made of the finest wood". Even reading through some adventures, I can't find much other than vague descriptions like "lavish bed", "huge bed", "bed made of heavy wood", "Simple bed" etc.

As always, any question that encompasses all of Europe for a thousand years from pauper to prince - it depends. The topic is very extensive, since Europe had 4 major material culture groups: Franco-German-Italian, Nomadic, Islamic and Byzantine. Even within these, differences are vast.

To make this topic more manageable, I will split it into generic info, bed types based on kind of intended use and closing remarks.

Generic info

For dimensions, you can safely look at modern beds. About the only consideration that existed in period and not today is heating of fancier beds, done via coals, and that could comfortably fit under beds that were tall enough to sit on, which to my knowledge is practically all of them.

For price, it's a wild range, from zero for beds made by yourself with an axe and some convenient branches to cost of a small town for the gold-plated beds of extremely rich.


pillow - 1-3 gr.
straw mattress - 2-4 gr.
chair - 4-8gr., depends on type
simple three-room house - 420-660 gr.
undershirt - 7-8 gr.

therefore, a solid bed is: two chairs worth of carpentry, plus pillow plus 6 pillows for covers plus 6*4 pillows for mattress:
39 gr


Bed type one - in house

These are beds that are really not meant to be moved. Even if the houses changed owners, heavy furniture like a bed frame would likely stay where it was, and only mattresses, covers and pillows would be moved. Since houses were usually seen as something your children will inherit, these behemoths were built to last - hence some mentions of beds that were permanent features.

You can move one of these, but be warned, they will likely be double the weight of modern wood bed frames at least, since replacing them often wasn't done, they were built large and then carved as decoration, sometimes by the carpenter, sometimes by the owner from boredom or as a hobby - this phenomenon is not known from beds per se, but we do have some fragmentary remains of wooden support beams in houses that show it.

Upscaling these was done by gluing fabrics to them, starting with humbler linen and goung up to brocade.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/c1/78/e9c178ee9524850a7d4e36d575efdc65.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/30/04/1e/30041e2e4e8507f29c4d77c8f06b0a6a.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rrG-FQmKLBc/Voqo2TFdvRI/AAAAAAAAIDw/oc2yUfQguOM/s400/full%2B38%2Brecto%2Bimage%2Bfor%2Bblog.JPG
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/07/0b/6a/070b6a0d360bbcc4e57a00c63b882b93--work-jeans-art-medieval.jpg
https://threegoldbees.com/projects/heraldic-bed-hangings/2.jpg


Bed type two - camping bed

Seeing as nobles did a lot of travelling as part of their administrative duties, there were beds that were meant to be taken apart. For decoration, same as above applies, but weight was a lot less.

The construction was made from wooden bits that could be put together and secured with wooden pegs, and these resulted in surprisingly sturdy items - I would know, I weigh 110 kg and I slept in one of them quite comfortably. Well, in a modern replica, museum people would probably strangle me if I slept in geniuine article.


https://medieval-market.com/img/bed_type_2_1n.jpg
https://medieval-market.com/img/rope_bed_1.jpg


Bed type three - you done goofed

These are temporary beds that were made either because you had no money and had to move (as part of an army, as a shepherd) or because you have, indeed, done goofed and got stuck in the open with storm closing in. These cost absolutely zero and only the very poorest will have them, even a simple farmer will have fancier stuff. Still, they work as part of a slum, or maybe for Foul Ol' Ron, leader of Ankh Morpork Guild of Beggars.

They have little to no frame, often being in shallow holes dug in the ground, and use branches instead of wool for matresses.


https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads//2014/08/bed-pine.jpg


On mattresses and pillows

There are, effectively, three tiers of luxury.

Tier 1 is straw mattress and fabric covering, likely your cloak, only the very impoverished had these. Pillow is probably your folded pants or something.

Tier 2 is standard, wool as filling for mattress, covers and pillows.

Tier 3 adds feathers into the mix. You have two matresses here, either straw and wool or two woolen ones, and on top of that is another "mattress" called the featherbed. Pillows and covers are stuffed with feathers.

You foten saw people not quite able to afford the featherbed going with pillows and covers with feathers as a sort of intermediate tier.

Conclusion

That's about that for medieval bedding 101. If you want further insights, you'll have to specify time, period, place/culture and wealth in question.

[Thurbane]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply!

In our campaigns, we assume a generally late medieval Britain-type setting (modified by the presence of magic, monsters, non-human sapients etc.).

https://i.imgur.com/HHkejh5.png https://i.imgur.com/xr3Poho.png

Looking at room layouts in a randomly selected module, the beds above seen to be about 7.5 x 4.5 feet for the singles, and about 7 x 9 feet for the double...not sure if that is helpful at all.

[Martin Greywolf]

Looking at room layouts in a randomly selected module, the beds above seen to be about 7.5 x 4.5 feet for the singles, and about 7 x 9 feet for the double

Those about check out. For weight, you can assume 300 kg for the two person bed, based off of a reproduction. Single person will be probably about half to 2/3 that. These are figures for a fairly solid wooden frame without being four poster. If those beds are of camping bed variety, which is possbile in barracks, the weight is about 10 kg without mattress, about 30 kg with. If you have a metal container for holding coals to warm the bed up, that's about 5-10 kg when filled.

[Fizban]

Twin beds are called that cause you were expect to purchase two at a time, while queen and king was all marketing. Sleep like a king in your king bed kind of stuff. Twins are also known as singles, a shortening of single twin bed. A double or full sized mattress was considered the minimum size to comfortably sleep two people.
Ah, I get it now.

Tier 2 is standard, wool as filling for mattress, covers and pillows.
I was thinking wool filling made more sense myself, glad proper research puts it there.

[Bronk]

Not for nothing, but have you considered using an enveloping pit instead of a portable hole? They're a 10 foot diameter vs. a 6 foot diameter, and 50 feet deep instead of 10 feet.

Either way, you can get around a lot of the size restrictions by always opening your hole or pit on a vertical surface instead of a horizontal one.

[Crake]

The real question is: How often are you expecting to need to cast restoration, that the value of the bed will surpass the cost of simply casting it with the material component? What, do you have a succubus in the party with improved energy drain or something?

[Thurbane]

The real question is: How often are you expecting to need to cast restoration, that the value of the bed will surpass the cost of simply casting it with the material component? What, do you have a succubus in the party with improved energy drain or something?

Just a thought experiment more than anything.

Also, there aren't a whole lot of at-will or daily use Restoration items out there. I ran into an issue DMing for a party that didn't have a caster that could use it, and I had to keep dropping Potions of Restoration (Healer 3) as loot. It was a low-op group.


Not for nothing, but have you considered using an enveloping pit instead of a portable hole? They're a 10 foot diameter vs. a 6 foot diameter, and 50 feet deep instead of 10 feet.

Either way, you can get around a lot of the size restrictions by always opening your hole or pit on a vertical surface instead of a horizontal one.

Definitely something to consider, thanks. :smallsmile:

[Crake]

Just a thought experiment more than anything.

Also, there aren't a whole lot of at-will or daily use Restoration items out there. I ran into an issue DMing for a party that didn't have a caster that could use it, and I had to keep dropping Potions of Restoration (Healer 3) as loot. It was a low-op group.

ah well, you might want to consider a dispel magic combined with a shrink item/permanency combo. Since spells only check for valid targets at the time of casting, and the dispel magic makes the bed temporarily non-magical, you get to have yourself a much smaller bed that you can shrink/grow at will. Even a large bed would likely be able to fit into a simple bag of holding that way.

[Celestia]

The real question is: How often are you expecting to need to cast restoration, that the value of the bed will surpass the cost of simply casting it with the material component? What, do you have a succubus in the party with improved energy drain or something?
It would be funny to show up to a game with a character who has a bed of restoration in a portable hole and a succubus cohort. You probably won't be allowed to play that character, but it could be good for a few chuckles.

[Martin Greywolf]

It would be funny to show up to a game with a character who has a bed of restoration in a portable hole and a succubus cohort. You probably won't be allowed to play that character, but it could be good for a few chuckles.

Huh. That concept opens up a lot of potential plot hooks, or just falvour. A really expensive courtesan that is a succubus that the local pirests can't do anything about as she's not really hurting anyone, a decadent lord, one of the PCs that hooked up with a succubus seeking someone to make one of these beds...

[Crake]

Depending on how you interpret improved energy drain, a succubus and a bed of restoration can actually make a terrifying combo

[Martin Greywolf]

Depending on how you interpret improved energy drain, a succubus and a bed of restoration can actually make a terrifying combo

One person's terrifying is another person's gratifying.

[sreservoir]

The real question is: How often are you expecting to need to cast restoration, that the value of the bed will surpass the cost of simply casting it with the material component? What, do you have a succubus in the party with improved energy drain or something?

Spend a whole night sustaining a single casting of Steal Life (BoVD) to knock a few decades to a century off your age?

(Find a friend, get two beds, drain each other?)

[Crake]

One person's terrifying is another person's gratifying.

I mean... I've used that combo as a DM before. Had a player spend a while with a succubus on one of these beds only to realise that the succubus now had an overwhelming bonus to their grapple checks and they were utterly unable to escape until the succubus was done with them. Having +600 to your skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls and saving throws, along with 3000 temporary hit points after an hour of non-stop draining makes you a tough nut to crack.

Of course, you still have that 5% chance to just drop to a save or die, or be booted back to your home plane with a dismissal etc.