So my Arcana Cleric is our group's best bet at tanking.

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I kinda need a bit of build advice. Originally I wanted my Arcana Cleric (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2158923) to be a 2. row character, blasting away with cantrips until engaged in melee. After a bit of debating with myself, I decided to push Wis to 18 (and will probs to 20) instead of going Warcaster, so technically nothing is REALLY engaged with me in melee, since I am often unarmed.

Our group has a minor issue though, as our primary melee combatant left the game to personal reasons. We have me with AC 16 (+2 Shield) and the next melee guy is our DW Swashbuckler with AC 14, and occasionally our Bladesinger with AC 16 (Song adds +4) (and Mirror Images/Absorb Elements to make up for the lack of HP).

I am unsure if and where I should dip into a melee class. Technically viable are Fighter (all features are welcome, but don't work GREAT with the Cleric subclass), Monk (which would make my fist a weapon and also give me unarmored AC, even though Shield + Armor will always be better), Ranger (which would bring the very welcome Survival skill even though our druid is most capable). Rogue and Wizard are options, but do not feel like a good choice (even tho Abjuration Wizard COULD be a decent idea).

Should I multi? If so, into which class? If not, why? How would you spend my future feats? We are playing the Bhaalspawn saga, so at most we could have two breaks (between BG 1, Siege of Dragonspear and between SoD and BG 2) to have a tad bit of downtime to respec, though if I am to switch my deity, I need a solid reason (also since an item is attuned to Deneir).

I also need a way to lock people INTO combat, as we lack our Polarm Master/Sentinel Fighter.

[Man_Over_Game]

Greetings playground,

I kinda need a bit of build advice. Originally I wanted my Arcana Cleric (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2158923) to be a 2. row character, blasting away with cantrips until engaged in melee. After a bit of debating with myself, I decided to push Wis to 18 (and will probs to 20) instead of going Warcaster, so technically nothing is REALLY engaged with me in melee, since I am often unarmed.

Our group has a minor issue though, as our primary melee combatant left the game to personal reasons. We have me with AC 16 (+2 Shield) and the next melee guy is our DW Swashbuckler with AC 14, and occasionally our Bladesinger with AC 16 (Song adds +4) (and Mirror Images/Absorb Elements to make up for the lack of HP).

I am unsure if and where I should dip into a melee class. Technically viable are Fighter (all features are welcome, but don't work GREAT with the Cleric subclass), Monk (which would make my fist a weapon and also give me unarmored AC, even though Shield + Armor will always be better), Ranger (which would bring the very welcome Survival skill even though our druid is most capable). Rogue and Wizard are options, but do not feel like a good choice (even tho Abjuration Wizard COULD be a decent idea).

Should I multi? If so, into which class? If not, why? How would you spend my future feats? We are playing the Bhaalspawn saga, so at most we could have two breaks (between BG 1, Siege of Dragonspear and between SoD and BG 2) to have a tad bit of downtime to respec, though if I am to switch my deity, I need a solid reason (also since an item is attuned to Deneir).

I also need a way to lock people INTO combat, as we lack our Polarm Master/Sentinel Fighter.

I wouldn't multiclass. With War Caster, you are apt enough as a front-liner with Spirit Guardians, and everyone else can afford to take some heat just fine. Heck, since your Wizard would be able to rock some crazy AC, you could just have him be the primary melee combatant with Shield and Bladesinging, with you artificially doubling his HP with Warding Bond.

By going straight Cleric, you aren't delaying Spirit Guardians any more than you need to, and you're on the path to getting another ASI, which can help fill in any gaps you noticed for your new role along the way (such as tankiness with Tough, or some stickiness with Sentinel).

Since you do have War Caster, you already can benefit from Polearm Master, as it'd allow you to cast Booming Blade on enemies that'd attempt to enter the reach of your Quarterstaff.

[LudicSavant]

Greetings playground,

I kinda need a bit of build advice. Originally I wanted my Arcana Cleric (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2158923) to be a 2. row character, blasting away with cantrips until engaged in melee. After a bit of debating with myself, I decided to push Wis to 18 (and will probs to 20) instead of going Warcaster, so technically nothing is REALLY engaged with me in melee, since I am often unarmed.

Our group has a minor issue though, as our primary melee combatant left the game to personal reasons. We have me with AC 16 (+2 Shield) and the next melee guy is our DW Swashbuckler with AC 14, and occasionally our Bladesinger with AC 16 (Song adds +4) (and Mirror Images/Absorb Elements to make up for the lack of HP).

I am unsure if and where I should dip into a melee class. Technically viable are Fighter (all features are welcome, but don't work GREAT with the Cleric subclass), Monk (which would make my fist a weapon and also give me unarmored AC, even though Shield + Armor will always be better), Ranger (which would bring the very welcome Survival skill even though our druid is most capable). Rogue and Wizard are options, but do not feel like a good choice (even tho Abjuration Wizard COULD be a decent idea).

Should I multi? If so, into which class? If not, why? How would you spend my future feats? We are playing the Bhaalspawn saga, so at most we could have two breaks (between BG 1, Siege of Dragonspear and between SoD and BG 2) to have a tad bit of downtime to respec, though if I am to switch my deity, I need a solid reason (also since an item is attuned to Deneir).

I also need a way to lock people INTO combat, as we lack our Polarm Master/Sentinel Fighter.

Check out the Arcana Cleric tank in my build thread (in my sig).

Don't multiclass, you're already playing arguably the best Cleric subclass for tanking. For "locking people into melee" use Warcaster / Potent Booming Blade, Spirit Guardians, and the fact that you're the healer they need to kill before anyone else can die.

[Merudo]

Rogue and Wizard are options, but do not feel like a good choice (even tho Abjuration Wizard COULD be a decent idea).


Wizard 1 is rather powerful multiclass, actually. You get Find Familiar, Absorb Elements, and Shield. The later is invaluable for tanking.

Bladesinger should have higher AC and be fully able to tank, btw, unless their Dex is below 10. Mage Armor is AC 13 + Dex mod, so with the song you are looking at AC 17 minimum. With 14 Dex, they would be at AC 19. Add the Shield spell, and they have AC 24.

[LudicSavant]

Wizard 1 is rather powerful multiclass, actually. You get Find Familiar, Absorb Elements, and Shield. The later is invaluable for tanking.

Yeah, if you *do* multiclass, Wizard is actually one of the better ones, since it gives you key reactions and a familiar.

Druid is also a good option, if it's not going to retroactively screw over your armor (pretty much every DM seems to have a different opinion on this, so ask yours).

[ImproperJustice]

Why do you need a tank?

I know that seems confrontational, but something I have experienced in 5e is that traditional roles are unnecessary.

If everyone can blast do that, or if everyone sneaks do that instead. If everyone needs to run in opposite directions and split the enemy up while clobbering them with ranged attacks and spells do that.

You do you, and you do you as best as you possibly can and the rest will be fine and easy.

[Keravath]

Why do you need a tank?

I know that seems confrontational, but something I have experienced in 5e is that traditional roles are unnecessary.

If everyone can blast do that, or if everyone sneaks do that instead. If everyone needs to run in opposite directions and split the enemy up while clobbering them with ranged attacks and spells do that.

You do you, and you do you as best as you possibly can and the rest will be fine and easy.

In my experience, unintelligent enemies will often choose to bite whoever is nearest. Why would they run across the room to attack someone else when there is a yummy morsel right here. If the party arranges it so that the yummy morsel also has the highest AC, decent hit points and various other abilities like spirit guardians ... then the party tends to survive better. The role of the tank tends to be the target.

However, even against intelligent enemies, it can often be a good idea to take out a high AC target if they are the biggest threat. This is where an Arcana cleric actually has more going for them than a fighter. A fighter swings their sword and does damage, they have no real way to prevent an intelligent opponent from moving on and attacking a caster behind them except the thread of one opportunity attack each round. In many situations, intelligent opponents will take that opportunity attack in order to engage the wizard with lower hit points and try to break their concentration. The advantage the Arcana cleric has, is that since they are a full caster AND since their spells will keep the rest of the part up, the opponents can't defeat the party until the cleric goes down. An Arcana cleric "tanks" by enticing opponents to attack them over other targets ... and they hopefully survive due to their higher AC.

[Spore]

Why do you need a tank?

I know that seems confrontational, but something I have experienced in 5e is that traditional roles are unnecessary.

Mostly psychological stuff, that also affects roleplaying. People (characters AND their players) feel safer engaging in melee when someone OTHER than them takes the hits, AND a class capable of healing is nearby (even though my ressources are mostly best used to PREVENT damage)

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Why do you need a tank?

I know that seems confrontational, but something I have experienced in 5e is that traditional roles are unnecessary.

If everyone can blast do that, or if everyone sneaks do that instead. If everyone needs to run in opposite directions and split the enemy up while clobbering them with ranged attacks and spells do that.

You do you, and you do you as best as you possibly can and the rest will be fine and easy.

I generally agree with this. I'd add that if you don't have a single character that can absorb attack after attack then it helps if more than one of you can take a bit of a beating. As a cleric you are definitely one of the characters capable of doing this and sounds like the rest of your group isn't super squishy. A dip for Shield could be useful, as could the tough feat or simply increasing your Con. Med Armor master isn't bad for Clerics (particularly if you want to also be sneeky), but you'd need 2 ASIs for it at this point, so probably not doable after the fact.

[Gtdead]

Cleric has comparative advantage on using dodge action. He has the weakest attack in the game and the bulk of his damage comes from concentration (SG), and bonus action (SW).

You should invest on warcaster if you haven't already. Warcaster allows you to deal some good AoOs, TtD is generally better than a single extra attack if you don't have the stats for BB. Dodge along with Warcaster will do wonders for maintaining concentration and with SG you will stick on enemies like glue. I don't know your level and I am unfamiliar with these adventures (I just assume that you will reach lvl 10), but once you get a bit more spellslots you will be fine. Upcasted SG is better than most higher level spells, especially if you are forced into a tank role. Just keep your low level slots for supporting.

[Corran]

You do you, and you do you as best as you possibly can and the rest will be fine and easy.
As major Edrington would say, ''never overestimate an ally Mr Hornblower, particularly one who is caught up in his own affairs''. Also, food for thought. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium) Not the best analogy at first glance, but the principle is exactly the same.

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@OP: First of all apologies, cause this is a bit all over the place.

Your group's main weakness is not lacking a tank. All of the characters are decent enough at surviving, each in their own way. But since you'll be tanking lots of attacks, first thing you should do would be to build up your concentration saves. So, warcaster and resilient con (retrain your ASI if possible). Warcaster will also boost your opportunity attacks, which is something that might come into play frequently once you start using spirit guardians (assuming you have the concentration to back it up and keep it going).

If your hp are not proving enough (the dodge action and is your friend, especially once you set up a spirit guardians; keep sanctuary prepared too), you could multiclass 1 level into some caster class that will get you the shield spell (either wizard; grab absorb elements and probably fog cloud too; see ranged attackers later on. Or hexblade; your slot progression will be delayed, but you are getting extra low level slots for shield healing word and sanctuary and you are also getting the curse that will combine nicely with magic missile later on; and that's good cause you are lacking in nova damage). Definitely do that (ie mc into arcane caster) if the other two are good at playing hit and run and/or shooting from a decent range (eg rogue fires bow or hits and runs with extra movement from cunning action, bladesinger is using gr invisibility, BB and increased speed due to bladesinging). That might force most melee enemies to focus on you, in which case it's very profitable to be able to boost your defenses through the roof or to both boost defenses and concentrate at SG at the same time (eg spirit guardians dodge and shield as a reaction, or dodge and sanctuary, or protection from evil and shield, all while you allies are thinning your enemies).

Use your 2nd level slots for aid as much as you can, it will help a lot given you are a three man party. Encourage your rogue to take up some hits (before reverting back to a hit and run style) if you and the bladesinger are pressed hard. Let the bladesinger focus on more solid (than SG) control options, you are going to need those. Close range (party friendly) AoE is covered by you, let the bladesinger cover for longer range AoE too. Prepare a few single target debuffs yourself, to ease the pressure on the bladesinger's spell selection (eg command, hold person, banishment, etc; pick ones that add targets when upcasted, and dont be afraid to do so when you've got good targets for them).

Your group's weak area is probably single target ranged damage (ambushes could hurt too, especially the bladesinger, so advise alert to him). If enemies come at you in melee you'll be fine, but if the fight you from range (eg a flying creature, or lots of archers), you'll need some ranged damage on your side (yeah, your teammates are fast, yeah you can find cover or concealment -eg fog cloud, but sometimes you might just need to outlast the enemy in a ranged contest). You and the bladesinger have some options, but what you really have to do is try to enable the rogue's sneak attack (aside for using a familiar, cause it's too fragile to support that need on its own). Between you and the wizard, make sure to grab at least one spell that can create concealment for the rogue to hide in, when terrain is not suitable for hiding already. When up against ranged mobile enemies with heightened senses, it's going to be tough if you dont find a way for the rogue to apply his sneak attack damage. More than anything else (cause you can plan for everything else I can think of), that's your group's weakness. Try to avoid those situations by scouting ahead (between you and the wizard you have more than enough tools to do that; rogue is your backup when your magic fails or when you really want to save up your slots). On the upside, you group's strength is that you have a great number of ways to deal with melee enemies (especially if the bladesinger and the rogue are smart about it, and let you do all the tanking). And out of combat utility too of course.

ps: Downgrade to breastplate for the benefit of an all stealth party. The benefits can outweigh the AC loss. But do carry a spare halfplate if you and your DM is not placing much importance on carrying capacity and stuff like that.

[Spore]

it will help a lot given you are a three man party.

Haha, we are five. A Warlock 3/Bard x and Wildfire Druid (read blaster) round up the group, but both dont want to be caught in the fire.


Check out the Arcana Cleric tank in my build thread (in my sig).

Very valuable resource. I did not EXPECT the wizard spell list to help me to actually be so sturdy, but it is a decent discovery after all.

I will pull cleric to 8, and then either dip wizard (shield spam for mechanical reasons, everything else for RP reasons) or just try to retrain my ASI to Magic Initiate Druid. Basically deciding to which group member/sibling I want to have more affiliation.