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Grynning
2007-10-31, 08:21 PM
So, my friend wants to DM an all-goblin group, and I'm taking up the role of the cleric (a la Redcloak). However, I'm a bit miffed that there seems to be precious little information on Maglubiyet (patron of the goblins in Greyhawk) or goblin culture at all for that matter. Complete Divine doesn't mention their deity at all. As one of the original baddies of D&D, you'd think that gobbos would get a bit more love. Can anyone point me towards content that has good stuff for goblins?

mostlyharmful
2007-10-31, 08:25 PM
So, my friend wants to DM an all-goblin group, and I'm taking up the role of the cleric (a la Redcloak). However, I'm a bit miffed that there seems to be precious little information on Maglubiyet (patron of the goblins in Greyhawk) or goblin culture at all for that matter. Complete Divine doesn't mention their deity at all. As one of the original baddies of D&D, you'd think that gobbos would get a bit more love. Can anyone point me towards content that has good stuff for goblins?

http://www.goblinscomic.com/ It's the best possible resource for you. a webcomic that explores DnD from the goblins perspectives.

daggaz
2007-10-31, 08:32 PM
Ummm.... while Goblinscomic is a GREAT comic, it has absolutely nothing on goblin religion as per the OP. In fact, its quite the opposite of the DnD theme, as the whole point of the comic is to turn the game on its head and focus on a small group of goblins who decide to go PC instead of NPC and fight off the evil humans who keep killing their tribesmen for no good reason.

There was a poster here who actually wrote an entire book about goblins and their society, and presented it to Wizards for publishment. Unfortunately, he turned it in like three days before they announced 4.0, and he was turned down. Due a search on the boards and you will probably turn up his name, sorry I cannot remember it offhand. He probably has a ton of information for you...

Chronos
2007-10-31, 08:36 PM
a webcomic that explores DnD from the goblins perspectives....which doesn't answer the OP's question. Unless we know what deity Chief worships?

Of course, the OP can take this as a setback, or as an opportunity. The lack of existing material on goblin religion and culture means that he's free to make it up himself.


*Correction: We do know that Chief worships Maglubiyet (http://goblinscomic.com/d/20060716.html). But that still doesn't help the OP, since the Maglubiyet of that comic is clearly not the same as the one in the D&D sources (the goblins being good and all).

BardicDuelist
2007-10-31, 08:51 PM
Don't know how accurate this is (it is Wikipedia), but it seems like it has some decent information. None of this may be cannon for 3.x (as most of 1/2e stuff has been changed), but it's a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglubiyet

Stormcrow
2007-10-31, 10:50 PM
There was a poster here who actually wrote an entire book about goblins and their society, and presented it to Wizards for publishment. Unfortunately, he turned it in like three days before they announced 4.0, and he was turned down. Due a search on the boards and you will probably turn up his name, sorry I cannot remember it offhand. He probably has a ton of information for you...

If I'm not mistaken it was Mr. Nexx.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-31, 10:51 PM
If I'm not mistaken it was Mr. Nexx.

Indeed, it was Nexx.

Telvos
2007-10-31, 10:59 PM
I just assume when I DM that a deity is happy to accept almost any race of follower unless they specifically state otherwise (some of the evil deities may be less tolerante of species, maybe not).

If you can't find anything on the Goblin-specific deities (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/ mentions that the books have NOTHING on the goblin deities nearly) then it may be a good idea to ask the DM if you can follow Bane or one of the others.

arkol
2007-10-31, 11:02 PM
He never actually wrote the whole book. He just submitted the concept to WotC. Still he probably has some info on them. Btw the book also included orcs.

However from the wikipedia link you can get some info. Apparently his favoured weapon is the battleaxe.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-31, 11:06 PM
I just assume when I DM that a deity is happy to accept almost any race of follower unless they specifically state otherwise (some of the evil deities may be less tolerante of species, maybe not).

If you can't find anything on the Goblin-specific deities (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/ mentions that the books have NOTHING on the goblin deities nearly) then it may be a good idea to ask the DM if you can follow Bane or one of the others.

I think the earlier editions had more on goblin deities, but they were cut to include Norse, Olympian, etc in the current Deities and Demigods.

Nostri
2007-10-31, 11:56 PM
I believe that the Realms book on the various religions have info on the goblin deities though I might be mistaken. You might also want to stay as far away from Realms info as possible.

Like Bardic just said, the earlier editions had more info on some of the odder deities (Cthulu Mythos anyone?) but some of the books can be hard to get ahold of if you don't know anyone who played during the time those books were actually in use. (Or like me your just a really odd geek and are trying to collect as many 1st edition book as possible...)

EvilJames
2007-11-01, 01:31 AM
2nd ed books had more about cultures of the some of the monsters (dragons magazine had was gret for the ones that the MM didn't say much about.)
Goblins culture has no concept of privacy everything is pretty much done out in public.

2nd ed Monster Mythology covers the primary dieties of the goblin pantheon

Maglubiyet: Chief diety of both goblins and hobgoblins. He enforces rigid hierarchy, and makes war for the glory of war (where as Gruumsh makes war for specificly for territory) His preists are pushy and aggressive, full of ambition and wary of those under them

Khurgorbaeyag: Maglubiyet's trusted lieutenant and the patron of goblins as a specific race. He encourages his priests to enforce discipline with whatever means available

Nomog-Geaya: Patron of Hobgoblins a stoic tyrant and the hobgoblin ideal. His preist are fanatics, rigid and cold. They don't stir up violnce against goblins but they do preach the superiorty of hobgoblins.

Bargrvyek: Aggresive and territorial, he knows unity is strength so his preists mediate disputes between tribes and villages in order to keep them united as a whole, often by directing illfeelings towards external targets.

If you have any more specific questions let me know and I'll look it up :smallbiggrin:

Ps There are also a number of dieties that are not specificly a part of any goblinoid panthon but are known and sometimes worshipped by them

Meriadar: god of the mongrelmen and humanoids that have turned from their violent cultures. A god of patience and long suffering. He particularly likes to poach worshipers from the bugbear gods since they are chaotic and he is lawful.

Stalker: An elemental entity supposedly related to the root stock of all goblinoids it has no worshippers and has no love for any goblinoid or humanoid it is a particular enemy of Meriadar who seeks to bring a semblance of respect for life to the goblinoids. It has an "alliance" of sorts with Skigguret the bugbear god of fear, but it's really more of a tolerance for each other.

Grynning
2007-11-01, 02:04 AM
Yeah, I found the info on those guys on the Wiki Article - and since all the other gods got a re-work and extra domains in CD, I figured I'd get started a bit on the stuff for those guys too. I'm thinking of having my cleric worship the whole pantheon and just picking two domains. Also, thanks to whoever put up the link for the Goblins webcomic, that is awesome. My DM said that is actually where he got the idea.

So, first up, Maglubiyet, The Iron One, Chief of the goblin Deities:
Since he's not Chaotic, and the alignment domains are, well, kinda boring, I've removed Chaos from his domains and replaced it with Pestilence from Complete Divine. I figure since goblins are often compared to vermin it would fit that their clerics would summon swarms and inflict disease on their foes.
Greater Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Battleaxe
Domains: Evil, Destruction, Trickery, Pestilence

Khurgorbaeyag
Lesser Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Whip
Domains: Evil, Domination, Strength

Bargrivyek
Lesser Deity, LE
Favored Weapon: Flail
Domains: Evil, Law, Community, War (I know Community seems odd for an evil deity, but it fits his portfolio)

Go ahead and recommend other ideas for domains and maybe some other flavor stuff (the stuff in the wiki article is ok, but it's still pretty sparse).

Kizara
2007-11-01, 02:13 AM
Yeah, I found the info on those guys on the Wiki Article - and since all the other gods got a re-work and extra domains in CD, I figured I'd get started a bit on the stuff for those guys too. I'm thinking of having my cleric worship the whole pantheon and just picking two domains. Also, thanks to whoever put up the link for the Goblins webcomic, that is awesome. My DM said that is actually where he got the idea.

So, first up, Maglubiyet, The Iron One, Chief of the goblin Deities:
Since he's not Chaotic, and the alignment domains are, well, kinda boring, I've removed Chaos from his domains and replaced it with Pestilence from Complete Divine. I figure since goblins are often compared to vermin it would fit that their clerics would summon swarms and inflict disease on their foes.
Greater Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Battleaxe
Domains: Evil, Destruction, Trickery, Pestilence

Khurgorbaeyag
Lesser Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Whip
Domains: Evil, Domination, Strength

Bargrivyek
Lesser Deity, LE
Favored Weapon: Flail
Domains: Evil, Law, Community, War (I know Community seems odd for an evil deity, but it fits his portfolio)

Go ahead and recommend other ideas for domains and maybe some other flavor stuff (the stuff in the wiki article is ok, but it's still pretty sparse).

In my opinion, replacing it with War would make alot more sense (considering previously posted content on his mythos).

MrNexx
2007-11-01, 02:41 AM
As was mentioned, I did not write the book; I proposed it on about August 12th. (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/15139.html) They rejected it on August 13th (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/15490.html), more or less out of hand. I was pretty sure that was going to be the result; they don't even look at submissions that come in unsolicited, unless it comes with representation.

3 days later, they announced 4th edition was coming. (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/16311.html)

However, if you're looking for information on goblinoid religion, your best source is going to be 2nd edition's Monster Mythology. It's a good book with a wide variety of deities, which should give you a basic overview of each god's power and purview, and allow you to assign things like domains and favored weapons.

EvilJames
2007-11-01, 03:10 AM
Yeah, I found the info on those guys on the Wiki Article - and since all the other gods got a re-work and extra domains in CD, I figured I'd get started a bit on the stuff for those guys too. I'm thinking of having my cleric worship the whole pantheon and just picking two domains. Also, thanks to whoever put up the link for the Goblins webcomic, that is awesome. My DM said that is actually where he got the idea.

So, first up, Maglubiyet, The Iron One, Chief of the goblin Deities:
Since he's not Chaotic, and the alignment domains are, well, kinda boring, I've removed Chaos from his domains and replaced it with Pestilence from Complete Divine. I figure since goblins are often compared to vermin it would fit that their clerics would summon swarms and inflict disease on their foes.
Greater Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Battleaxe
Domains: Evil, Destruction, Trickery, Pestilence

Khurgorbaeyag
Lesser Deity, NE
Favored Weapon: Whip
Domains: Evil, Domination, Strength

Bargrivyek
Lesser Deity, LE
Favored Weapon: Flail
Domains: Evil, Law, Community, War (I know Community seems odd for an evil deity, but it fits his portfolio)

Go ahead and recommend other ideas for domains and maybe some other flavor stuff (the stuff in the wiki article is ok, but it's still pretty sparse).

Well in 2nd ed all the goblin dieties were lawful (as were the orcs whom they battled eternally in Acheron [after the constant fighting got them booted from Baator back in 1st ed]) but since in 3rd the orcs and goblins became chaotic I guess it's really up to you

Wraithy
2007-11-01, 12:00 PM
Mr.Nexx, did you actually write the whole book? because if you did, how would I be able to get my paws on it?
it seems a terrible waste for a book that amazing to be lost.

SoD
2007-11-01, 12:05 PM
As was mentioned, I did not write the book; I proposed it on about August 12th. (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/15139.html)

...

However, if you're looking for information on goblinoid religion, your best source is going to be 2nd edition's Monster Mythology. It's a good book with a wide variety of deities, which should give you a basic overview of each god's power and purview, and allow you to assign things like domains and favored weapons.

So no, he didn't. But there's an alternative!

Wraithy
2007-11-01, 12:10 PM
woops, sorry 'bout that:smallredface:
I suppose that the advantage of no (or at least very obscure) information about goblins (and the other true heroes of D&D) is that it gives the players and the DM more creative leeway.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-01, 12:28 PM
This may seem trite and nothing against Nexx awesome proposal, the wonderful webcomic Goblins (which I wish would spend less time spilling blood and more on plot...) but... ask your DM. You say he/she wanted an all goblin campagin so he/she probably already has a concept of what goblins are like and how they interact. Any and all source books aside your DM's conception is going to be what happens in your campagin. Get his/her imput and work (ideally with him/her) from there.

Grynning
2007-11-01, 01:58 PM
That's the thing...the DM is wanting me to do most of the goblin cultural stuff. He's working on antagonists, story, etc. We've known each other forever and played together a lot, so he trusts me to come up with it, so that's what I'm doing.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-01, 02:09 PM
I usually homebrew my goblins, of course, they usually end up controlling most of the world and in one campaign they've effectively made most dwarves slaves through isolation :smallamused:
So, I would suggest homebrew what you think is right unless you want inherently evil little buggers.

MrNexx
2007-11-01, 02:57 PM
woops, sorry 'bout that:smallredface:
I suppose that the advantage of no (or at least very obscure) information about goblins (and the other true heroes of D&D) is that it gives the players and the DM more creative leeway.

For Orcs, I saw them as having a lot of contact with humans; I have a half-orc who somewhat exemplified some of what would've developed in the parts about half-orcs here (http://www.editors-wastebasket.org/nexx/tsr/ghoruk.html).

For goblins, I'm not quite sure what I would've done with them; I was mostly proposing Races of Savagery so I could write about Orcs and Hobgoblins, and knew that Bugbears and Goblins would fill themselves in as I immersed myself in the material.

I don't picture them as being particularly religious so much as superstitious... non-divine-caster goblins worship their deities more out of fear than devotion, and listen to the divine casters because they have power.

As a race, I think they prize cleverness above strength, but only insofar as it leads to power... a smart mouth that gets someone mad at you doesn't do you any good. A clever plan which gets someone mad, but makes them unable to hurt you, on the other hand, means you've got power. They're not really into the traditional concepts of honor, though they do have concepts of loyalty to friends and enlightened self interest... so they don't see anything wrong with stealing from enemies, poisoning them, stabbing them in the back, etc., but most of them don't cross those lines with friends (because they're friends) or within the tribe (because that would cause problems they couldn't handle).

Their standard NE alignment tells me that their societal structure is pretty much like that; they tend to band together and form structured societies, but everyone is out for themselves. They're likely to hunter-gatherers and raiders because those are not as energy intensive as farming... farming you've got work to do every day, and it's all-day work. Hunters and raiders work intensely for very brief periods of time, while gatherers work non-intensely less frequently... but produce less surplus than farmers, keeping their numbers in check.

Just a few musings.

EvilJames
2007-11-02, 05:15 PM
A little thing I remembered from Monster Mythology is that Khurgorbaeyag allows his preists to work with the followers of Huggerekk (sic) of the bugbears due to some help Khurgorbaeyag recieved from him in the past so there is respect between these two

also Maglubiyet considers Gruumsh to be a brutish moron (and thinks even less of Gruumsh's son)

I may have more for you tonight if you want.

MCerberus
2007-11-02, 05:22 PM
You could always have them worship Plot, ruler of the Plot Goblins.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-02, 07:38 PM
And there's also varshnet, goddess of fertility. Excellent plot hook for goblin high level infestations, a faceoff against an Avatar of Varshnet.

EvilJames
2007-11-03, 12:28 AM
And there's also varshnet, goddess of fertility. Excellent plot hook for goblin high level infestations, a faceoff against an Avatar of Varshnet.

Never heard of Varshnet where did she come from?

Nowhere Girl
2007-11-03, 12:36 AM
I love the comic, by the way. I've become a fan thanks to this thread. :smallbiggrin:

Dhavaer
2007-11-03, 01:18 AM
Never heard of Varshnet where did she come from?

It sounds similar to the goblin deity from the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

AslanCross
2007-11-03, 04:21 AM
Since you're doing culture in general and not just religion, here are some vague ideas from Monster Manual V.
Monster Manual V says some stuff about hobgoblins. I think you could just assume that goblins are less rigid, less militaristic, and sneakier.
It depicts hobgoblins as fiercely loyal to their cause and always seeking to prove themselves stronger than the rest. They're willing to endure trials of great suffering if it would make them stronger (the Monstrous hobgoblins are created this way, though that "training is of a more magical sort"), and although they might engage in power struggles (typical of evil races), they tend to be very rigid in everything else.

Their marriages are arranged in order to produce the strongest offspring. They have a rigid caste system and although they don't discriminate against the lower castes, warriors definitely wield a lot of power over the lower castes (priests and artisans).