Hexblade Abjuration wizard

[Brenoli]

Hi all,

I've read about 1 Hexblade then abjuration wizard. Seems very strong to me. Armor of about 18 or 19 (using only shield, no weapon) right from the start and armor of Agathys combined with arcane ward gives about same durability as fighter. I was thinking about playing deep gnome taking svirneblin magic feat at 4, so i could replenish arcane ward easily and fast after fight. Was thinking about support caster in background.

Seems very strong to me, am I right?

I mean, with that AC I won't get hit often (especially not with blur active) and even if I were to get hit, it's ok, cos of ward and AoA. Would seem to me that I would not even need warcaster or something, cos I don't think enemies get through ward and AoA in a single round that often, so after feat at 4, I'd go intelligence at 8 and so on.

Thoughts? Am I overlooking things?

[nickl_2000]

A player at my table is doing something very similar. He went Arcana Cleric 1 and then Abjuration Wizard from there on out. He was weaker at level one and had to use a crossbow for most his attacks since his Wisdom wasn't high enough to be worthwhile, but he got all the utility cantrips out of it. Then once he went wizard he was able to choose lots of attack cantrips. The advantage of this is that his overall spell progression remains the same, whereas a hexblade separates the two spell progressions.

Overall, its a very effective build. It's just do you want 13 wisdom or 13 charisma? Also, if it within the character's personality to make a deal with an unknown being and then not actually do anything more with it?

[cutlery]

Hi all,

I've read about 1 Hexblade then abjuration wizard. Seems very strong to me. Armor of about 18 or 19 (using only shield, no weapon) right from the start and armor of Agathys combined with arcane ward gives about same durability as fighter. I was thinking about playing deep gnome taking svirneblin magic feat at 4, so i could replenish arcane ward easily and fast after fight. Was thinking about support caster in background.


Upcasting AoA uses lot of slots. Medium armor is interesting, but you'll of course need something like war caster to hold a shield and a focus and manage somatic components of spells. AC with medium armor is really only markedly better than mage armor+dexterity; but handy if you only have the budget for 14 dex.

I don't think it's as overpowered as it sounds. They'll still be wormfood if they get grappled.

You can use false life if not taking the level dip, and build AC the traditional way, and get neat spells a whole level sooner.

[Bobthewizard]

I'm playing a similar concept as a straight 4th level wizard using the Mark of Warding from Eberron that gets you Armor of Agathys. Even with the 16 AC the DM has just stopped attacking me. 10HP damage on a hit for multiple hits just isn't worth it. I also stand next to the Cavalier, so if they hit me, they take 10HP of damage and the Cavalier uses their reaction to attack them.

If I have mage armor and armor of agathys up, I cast a control spell 1st round, then move adjacent to the enemy. Then I either attack with booming blade on my dagger or cast another spell as needed. It's fun to balance when to use my shield spells. Do I let them hit me so they take damage, but that eats into my Ward and THP, or do I use shield to keep safe, but then don't cause them any damage.

[DarknessEternal]

Even with the 16 AC the DM has just stopped attacking me.

Exactly. Don't make a character whose only contribution is getting attacked.

[Xervous]

Exactly. Don't make a character whose only contribution is getting attacked.

Like the 3.5e monk, yeah. Pack a threat and then bring defenses proportional to your mode of threat delivery.

[Delph]

I'm playing a similar concept as a straight 4th level wizard using the Mark of Warding from Eberron that gets you Armor of Agathys. Even with the 16 AC the DM has just stopped attacking me. 10HP damage on a hit for multiple hits just isn't worth it. I also stand next to the Cavalier, so if they hit me, they take 10HP of damage and the Cavalier uses their reaction to attack them.

If I have mage armor and armor of agathys up, I cast a control spell 1st round, then move adjacent to the enemy. Then I either attack with booming blade on my dagger or cast another spell as needed. It's fun to balance when to use my shield spells. Do I let them hit me so they take damage, but that eats into my Ward and THP, or do I use shield to keep safe, but then don't cause them any damage.

But Armor of Aghatys efect is triggered by "when you are hit" so when enemy doesn't hit you - doesn't overcome your AC, then he doesn't get any dmg from Armor og Aghatys.

[Keravath]

Some folks consider going with 2 warlock in this case for the mage armor at will invocation that can be used to refill the abjuration wizard's ward between every encounter.

[Keravath]

Upcasting AoA uses lot of slots. Medium armor is interesting, but you'll of course need something like war caster to hold a shield and a focus and manage somatic components of spells. AC with medium armor is really only markedly better than mage armor+dexterity; but handy if you only have the budget for 14 dex.

I don't think it's as overpowered as it sounds. They'll still be wormfood if they get grappled.

You can use false life if not taking the level dip, and build AC the traditional way, and get neat spells a whole level sooner.

As long as you have a free hand for spellcasting you can hold a shield all you want. The only time it becomes an issue is if you want to hold a weapon or other item at the same time as the shield so that both hands are full. If you plan to have a free hand or don't mind dropping and picking things up then you can manage without warcaster.

[cutlery]

As long as you have a free hand for spellcasting you can hold a shield all you want. The only time it becomes an issue is if you want to hold a weapon or other item at the same time as the shield so that both hands are full. If you plan to have a free hand or don't mind dropping and picking things up then you can manage without warcaster.

RAW, you need to hold an arcane focus to use it; and then both hands are full. For spells with components that require special components, you need to have a hand free to access it.


A rod or wand or crystal in one hands and a shield in the other hand means no free hands.

[Yakk]

A component pouch and an empty hand lets you cast spells.

If it needs M, same hand can do S. If it does not need M, you have a hand to do S.

[cutlery]

A component pouch and an empty hand lets you cast spells.

If it needs M, same hand can do S. If it does not need M, you have a hand to do S.

Right, so they'd specifically have to go with the pouch. If they were to acquire a staff or rod later, using it as a focus creates a problem.

I think that some foci ought to be able to be used just like the pouch (a crystal, say), but the rules are vague on that.

I'm still not convinced AoA or the armor and shield is worth the level dip in actual play (and very unlikely two); unless others are doing weird builds, anyway. Waiting one or two levels for 3rd/4th/5th level spells would probably feel pretty bad.

Unless we're entering sorlock territory, anyway, but there is more synergy there.

[Dork_Forge]

It can be strong, but 1x/19y builds have compromises and are rarely as awesome as advertised.

Personally I'd take Warding Dwarf, Artificer 1/Abjurer 19 before Hexblade.

[BerzerkerUnit]

If you're doing Hex/Abjurer it's worth it to take the 2nd level of Hexblade to get Armor of Shadows for Perpetual Uptime on Arcane Ward.

That said, just posted this on a Gish build thread

Note: I will never make a Mark of Warding character bc I don't like Dwarves. Not sure why, just not my deal, so finding ways to get AoA on a build without it keep things interesting.

V. Human +1 Con, +1 Int
Str 15, Dx 8, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha13
Conquest Paladin 3, Abjurer Wizard 17.
Heavy Armor Master +1 Str
Armored or Dueling Fighting Style
Comes on line at level 5 when you get Abjuration school
Prep: Armor of Agathys with top slot, get Arcane Ward
Rd 1: Melee Cantrip and smite.
Rd 2: Melee Cantrip and smite.
Rd 3: refresh Armor of Agathys if needed.
Repeat.

Preferred items: weapon of warning, Defender weapon, flying shield Ring/Cloak of Protection etc.


7th is Wizard 4, Possibly take Warcaster or Elemental Adept Cold, or bump Str to 18
10th is Wizard 7 take Fire Shield
11th Wizard 8 bump Int.
14th is Wiz 11, take Tenser’s Transformation
15th is Wiz 12 Bump Int again
16th is Wiz 13 take Crown of Stars
18th is Wiz 15 take Mindblank, great for a 2nd combat refresh of Arcane Ward
19th Wiz 16 Bump Int again
20th Wiz 17 take Wish and Foresight and let the nonsense begin



Race same as above, Feats same but add Elemental Adept Cold at Fighter 4
Fighter 1
Warlock of Choice 1
Fighter Eldritch Knight 6
Abjurer Wizard 12
Same schtick with Armor of Agathys but after level 8 you cast Bladeward every round and use bonus action to make your Attack possibly to grapple then close eyes so enemies have advantage to hit you. You want them eating those 20+ Cold damage retaliations.

Same spells as above.


I've done a close reading of Arcane Ward, AoA, Bladeward, Heavy Armor Master, etc. It's very possible to reduce the amount of damage your Ward loses to near 0 which means your AoA will keep dealing damage a loooong time.

[LudicSavant]

Seems very strong to me, am I right?

Yes. A proper Hexblade Abjurer sees a bunch of Barbarians coming at them and is like "What sick man sends babies to fight me? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6Ui7VM6g)" At least that's how I felt playing that kind of character.


Armor of about 18 or 19 (using only shield, no weapon) right from the start and armor of Agathys combined with arcane ward gives about same durability as fighter. It's more durability than the Fighter. Your ward already exceeds the HD size difference before you even count the fact that it regenerates, then you're using things like Armor of Agathys and Contingency (Armor of Agathys). And you have way more ability to hose enemy offense than a Fighter; there's just no Fighter equivalent of Counterspell and Wall of Force and etc. Even if we're comparing to an Eldritch Knight (the tankiest Fighter) you have a lot more resources for Shields and other defensive spells than they do.


I mean, with that AC I won't get hit often (especially not with blur active) and even if I were to get hit, it's ok, cos of ward and AoA.

I generally won't even cast Blur. Maybe if I can pre-buff before a fight starts and I'm at a high enough level where a 2nd level slot isn't a big deal, but even then I'd usually rather use my Concentration on something else.

It's generally better to be using your Concentration on something that helps protect the party, not just you.

[Keravath]

RAW, you need to hold an arcane focus to use it; and then both hands are full. For spells with components that require special components, you need to have a hand free to access it.


A rod or wand or crystal in one hands and a shield in the other hand means no free hands.

There is nothing in the rules to indicate that you have to stand around holding an arcane focus or a component pouch. If you aren't holding it you have a free hand and free to interact with either an arcane focus or a component pouch if a spell requires a material component. So I am not sure that I see the issue. Wear a shield, have nothing in the other hand, if a spell requires a material component then interact with the arcane focus or component pouch as required.

Depending on what the arcane focus is - it is very easy to hold it and drop it in a pocket when done casting the spell. Probably easier than fumbling through a component pouch and putting the component away in the pouch when you are done. Chromatic orb for example requires a 50gp diamond to cast that you need to fetch from a component pouch and put back after use. An arcane focus would be easier to manipulate than that.

--- RAW below just for reference ---

"Component Pouch. A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a
spell's description)."

"Arcane Focus. An arcane focus is a special item—an orb, a crystal, a rod, a specially constructed staff, a wand-like length of wood, or some similar item—designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10."

"SOMATIC (5)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures."

"MATERIAL (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
lf a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component For each casting of the spell.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."

[cutlery]

I can see that working for a crystal, and maybe a wand, but a rod or a staff? No way; unless casters get two object interactions per turn - one to draw it from their pack and one to replace it.

[Evaar]

I can see that working for a crystal, and maybe a wand, but a rod or a staff? No way; unless casters get two object interactions per turn - one to draw it from their pack and one to replace it.

Turn 1: Draw Staff (objection interaction), Cast spell with V,S,M components, end turn
Turn 2: Sheathe Staff (objection interaction), Cast spell with only S components, end turn

At worst, you lose the ability to cast S-only reaction spells like Shield or Counterspell. Shield isn't a problem, since you almost want to get hit anyway. Counterspell could be a problem, so make a tactical decision - what is more worthwhile in the situation you find yourself? Congratulations, you have made a tactical decision in a tactical game, you are now a RealGamer™.

And that's all assuming you found a magic arcane focus that is better than just using a component pouch.

(My point being - it's a very situational disadvantage in a build that otherwise would be quite strong, and even that disadvantage can be mitigated with smart tactics, making it a feature rather than a bug.)

[Dork_Forge]

Turn 1: Draw Staff (objection interaction), Cast spell with V,S,M components, end turn
Turn 2: Sheathe Staff (objection interaction), Cast spell with only S components, end turn

At worst, you lose the ability to cast S-only reaction spells like Shield or Counterspell. Shield isn't a problem, since you almost want to get hit anyway. Counterspell could be a problem, so make a tactical decision - what is more worthwhile in the situation you find yourself? Congratulations, you have made a tactical decision in a tactical game, you are now a RealGamer™.

And that's all assuming you found a magic arcane focus that is better than just using a component pouch.

(My point being - it's a very situational disadvantage in a build that otherwise would be quite strong, and even that disadvantage can be mitigated with smart tactics, making it a feature rather than a bug.)

Unless you burn a feat on Warcaster, this method leaves you basically out of the OA game. Seeing as any monster with a degree of sense would just attack someone else after finding out they are taking damage each hit, that is a more significant drawback.

[Keravath]

Unless you burn a feat on Warcaster, this method leaves you basically out of the OA game. Seeing as any monster with a degree of sense would just attack someone else after finding out they are taking damage each hit, that is a more significant drawback.

Being able to use a cantrip or spell for an opportunity attack is another very useful feature of warcaster. It is a completely different reason to take the feat than being able to cast a spell while holding something in both hands.

If the sole reason to take warcaster is so you can cast something while holding a weapon but you are a class that doesn't tend to use weapons much then you can make do without warcaster. I have a level 16 14 lore bard/2 hexblade warlock that only recently picked up warcaster. I also have a level 10 character 9 evoker wizard/1 knowledge cleric that has also done fine without warcaster.

However, I still might take warcaster if I want the advantage on concentration checks, if I want to cast a cantrip as an op attack or (as happened with my bard), I came across a magic item that I want to hold while wearing a shield and casting spells - though in that case it didn't happen until level 14.

Most intelligent creatures don't run away from attacking the wizard just due to a little damage ... they realize that damage or not, the wizard is still probably the biggest threat ... so whether they can stab something with a dagger for an op attack is rarely an issue.

[Dork_Forge]

Most intelligent creatures don't run away from attacking the wizard just due to a little damage ... they realize that damage or not, the wizard is still probably the biggest threat ... so whether they can stab something with a dagger for an op attack is rarely an issue.

In this scenario they are taking a non trivial amount of damage everytime they hit whilst also not actually dealing any damage to the Wizard. So why would they stay and keep doing this when they can go and potentially drop another player that they can visibly do damage to whilst also avoiding self inflicted damage? The intelligent thing to do is kill the Wizard's friends because numbers matter and killing yourself with AoA damage is very non-intelligent behaviour.

Also why would a Hexblade/Abjuration Wizard be using a Dagger of all things for an OA? They have martial weapon proficiency and can even use a staff as a focus and weapon since they can navigate around needing to use Strength for it.