Grimdark Low-Magic

[Rider]

How would you go about running a grimdark, low-magic game in 5e? I'm looking for ways to limit or restrict magic down so it isn't the end all solution to problems, and make wizard/sorcerer type caster more rare.

In addition I'm looking to keep the overall power level lower so everything, even goblins, are a real threat.

[Pex]

Look for the 5E version of Middle Earth Roleplaying Game. You don't need to play in Middle Earth, of course, but it has new classes and feats you can use as is or inspire changes you need. It's designed around not having any magic user PCs. It can help having something already published to look over rather than do it from scratch.

[Edea]

I guess just ban all the full-casters and remove cantrips from the Spellcasting class feature. So no bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers or wizards, and the remaining classes with Spellcasting access don't get any cantrips. Also don't allow feats or give items which grant magic (obvs).

If you want a mob to be a threat to the PCs, just buff up the mob. That includes goblins.

[Unoriginal]

How would you go about running a grimdark, low-magic game in 5e? I'm looking for ways to limit or restrict magic down [...], and make wizard/sorcerer type caster more rare..

5e really isn't the system for that. You can do it, but the system will fight you at every turn.

As a starting point, though, I'd advise you to look into the alternate rest rules in the DMG.



so it isn't the end all solution to problems,

[...]

In addition I'm looking to keep the overall power level lower so everything, even goblins, are a real threat.

That's normal 5e.

[Luccan]

How would you go about running a grimdark, low-magic game in 5e? I'm looking for ways to limit or restrict magic down so it isn't the end all solution to problems, and make wizard/sorcerer type caster more rare.

In addition I'm looking to keep the overall power level lower so everything, even goblins, are a real threat.

I've been thinking about an E6 style game, though with the level cap at 4th instead (so technically E4). Though an individual goblin isn't really a threat after 1st or 2nd level (or ever if it's one goblin and multiple PCs), a group of them can still be threatening at 4th level, particularly if they take advantage of their abilities for hit-and-run tactics.

[Amechra]

Look for the 5E version of Middle Earth Roleplaying Game. You don't need to play in Middle Earth, of course, but it has new classes and feats you can use as is or inspire changes you need. It's designed around not having any magic user PCs. It can help having something already published to look over rather than do it from scratch.

Has anyone actually run 5e with those classes? I confess to being kinda interested in giving it a go.

[cutlery]

You can always limit NPC magic users pretty easily. You could cap spells available to players at 5th or 6th level, for example, or simply keep the players under 11th or 10th level. They have spells, but few of those spells are reality-warping.

You can also restrict the spell lists for classes however you wish. With the PHB and DMG, though, you'd be fighting the system every step of the way.

[Kyutaru]

The same way Warhammer 40k does it. Magic causes demons to try to invade your brain and force you to kill all your friends. Naturally this means people are absolutely terrified of magic and demons. Lots of wizards were slaughtered and only a few officially sanctioned and fervently trained ones are permitted to use magic. But even those wizards risk "accidentally" summoning demons or giving in to the Dark Side. Heretics are burned.

Magic stops being the be-all end-all when it's a last resort and not being used in the place of laziness. Is there a non-magical way to solve the problem that won't risk a demonic incursion taking over the planet? Let's go with that option instead.

[GeoffWatson]

D&D doesn't work for low-magic (except 4th edition).
Once you weaken magic enough there's just Fighters, Rogues, and Barbarians left. Maybe modified Monks, Rangers and Paladins.

[Corsair14]

I second the Middle earth adventures system. Its really flipping good. I prefer low magic or magic bad systems as well. Magic bad as in the 40k the power comes from somewhere not good and does bad things over time.

[loki_ragnarock]

... how low magic are we talking here?

Generally grim dark just adds a cost to magic rather than abolishing it. Same thing with violence or any kind of intentional action; there's a cost. You might even succeed in your goals, save the world... but at what cost? Nothing's for free when dealing with grim dark.

So what kind of cost would be interesting?


Something like a Countdown Timer on characters; an expectation that they are finite. Twenty points, let's say. Casting spells drains from those longevity points at a rate equal to the spell being cast. At zero... something happens. The character goes mad, catatonic, or just straight up strokes out under the pressures of spellcasting.

Adjust the point total for how long you'd like your characters to last. Make it a hundred points if you want a little while longer; the knowledge that there's a countdown at all is enough to set the tone. If you want to loosen it up, keep the point total small but make it recoverable in some fashion... like going to a sacred hot springs to cleanse the taint of magic from them.

Spitballing.

[Kyutaru]

Generally grim dark just adds a cost to magic rather than abolishing it. Same thing with violence or any kind of intentional action; there's a cost. You might even succeed in your goals, save the world... but at what cost? Nothing's for free when dealing with grim dark.
I would wager that Robert Jordan's world in the Wheel of Time series could be considered some grim dark apocalypse setting toward the later books. Darkspawn roam the world, the Forsaken are rising, the Dark One stirs, armies are clashing, the Power rains freely from enslaved channelers, and tainted male wielders are congregating under the banner of the Dragon Reborn, the one prophesied to break the world. Aside from the male half there isn't much in the way of cost but there is certainly risk of burning out if one uses more than they can safely handle or is careless in their weaving. The idea is that magic is dangerous and once was bountiful until it was used for evil purposes and destroyed much of the world. A similar setting can be found in D&D's own Dark Sun where arcane magic is hated and feared for causing the apocalypse.

[Eldariel]

Just ban all full casters from PC use. Rangers and Pallies up to you: I'd ban them too but YMMV. Let the magic come from 1/3 casters ("Jedi"-like Eldritch Knight and "Charlatan"-like Arcane Trickster) and feats like Ritual Caster and Magic Initiate. This edition actually functions just fine this way: you still have Inspiring Leader, Healer, etc. so keeping the people standing is not a problem and all the remaining classes are largely balanced with one another. This makes magical enemies unknown, scary and impressive while mundane needs to be extrapolated on.

Add some medieval elements: public distrust in anyone capable of using magic, superstition, inquisition, witch hunts, etc. Oppression of non-human races. Hell, let the PCs hunt the "heretics". Make a real "god" who takes no Clerics and leave the "fake" gods (the actual gods with power to grant spells or patron for Warlocks) in the hands of the cults while a generic monotheistic religion suppresses it all. Make the one god Zarus or something: the god of human supremacy and, like said, make him disdain divine magic to the point that he grants it to nobody. Make arcane magic banned by convention as heresy. It still exists, everyone who tries is just killed before they get off the ground. Now that I think about it, just run Witcher world, sans the Sorceress cabal. There you have all the work done for you.


EDIT: Though I'd be inclined to create a non-magical Bard and maybe a non-magical Ranger variant. That's not terribly much work; just remove the casting and give them some random stuff. Hell, Bard is fine even just removing the casting. Ranger needs some love though; Gloomstalker is close. Combine Hunter and Gloomstalker and you should be fine. Maybe Swords + Glamour Bard.

[Waazraath]

The same way Warhammer 40k does it. Magic causes demons to try to invade your brain and force you to kill all your friends. Naturally this means people are absolutely terrified of magic and demons. Lots of wizards were slaughtered and only a few officially sanctioned and fervently trained ones are permitted to use magic. But even those wizards risk "accidentally" summoning demons or giving in to the Dark Side. Heretics are burned.

Magic stops being the be-all end-all when it's a last resort and not being used in the place of laziness. Is there a non-magical way to solve the problem that won't risk a demonic incursion taking over the planet? Let's go with that option instead.

Plenty of examples if you want to go this route, maddness or corruption scores for example (low save DC for every spell cast, say 5+spell level). But if you want to keep something resembling balance, you might want to compensate. Maybe allowing ravnica backgrounds and ebberon dragonmark races? This is a boost for casters only (since they add to spells known), might compensate a bit for the slow fall into madness or unspeakable evil they might make.

If you want to ban classes, consider keeping the paladin and just change 'spell slots' into 'smite slots' --> no casting, just smiting. If there are no full casters, LoH gets much stronger, and the aura's are one of the few ways to buff the party, so it'll still be a very powerful class.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The trick to a good low-magic game isn't banning all magic, or slapping after-the-fact restrictions on it. Instead, you need to build replacements from the bottom up-- subclasses that add limited and thematic magic to the Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue; classes that are designed and balanced around the idea of magic being slow, limited, and/or costly. It's not easy, but it makes for a much richer and more enjoyable experience.

And luckily, I've been working on exactly that for my next sourcebook.

These Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue subclasses (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/EFH74Y_dN) that cover the same sorts of thematic and mechanical grounds as the Bard, Druid, Paladin and Ranger, as well as low-magic healing.
The Archivist (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/qvH69YTUZ) is a spooky-magic base class that's all about ritual magic and voodoo-type curses-- it makes a great Wizard or Warlock replacement, and has subclasses that pull in Cleric and Druid themes.
The Alchemist (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/hxQ8k8fd6) is a straight-up full caster, admittedly, but their magic thematically and mechanically takes the form of potions, poisons, and bombs-- stuff that fits a lot better in a low-magic paradigm than normal spellcasting.
I've also got a vitality-and-wound-points system (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/T7GJFKsIK) that makes health a bit more grounded, and rules for running an "epic 6th" game (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/wgTsZ88K8) in 5e.

[morkendi]

I saw a video somewhere that really worked to make it low magic and still retain balance. All the did was change the rest time. A short rest became like 8 hours and a long rest was something like a week. This made it so magic was still available, but these earth shattering spells would be very rare and costly to cast. Casters have to conserve there slots, cantrips become very important. It retains balance because melee combatants are affected by same timers.

Song of rest, arcaine conversation, sorcery point conversion, etc all become very relevant. A lot of it makes sense. It takes time to heal without magical meens.

It forces roleplay but still allows players to play what they like.

[morkendi]

Here is the video

https://youtu.be/6V7x1jb3GVI

[Maan]

D&D just doesn't handle low-magic.

You are likely better off looking for another system rather than trying to cut with a spoon. Forbidden Lands would be good, for example, and it still has that D&D feeling to it (a lot more old school, though).

[HappyDaze]

5e really isn't the system for that. You can do it, but the system will fight you at every turn.

As a starting point, though, I'd advise you to look into the alternate rest rules in the DMG.


I really want to second (or more) this. D&D 5e is for making fantasy pulp heroes (or even superheroes). D&D characters in 5e don't worry much about mundane things, which is why the skill system is so piss-poor, and things like encumbrance and tracking expendables (e.g., rations, ammunition, water, etc.) is largely just handwaved away. If you want grimdark low-magic, there are FAR better options than 5e.

[Andrwrwn]

Although magic is often rare in grimdark fantasy, it's almost always used as the ultimate means of domination and, even though the general population don't have it (as they would in a setting like Faerun or Eberron), the rulers and particularly the antagonists generally do. A few of the more famous examples...

Abercrombie's First Law - well, no spoilers for those who haven't read the first series
Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards - the Bondsmagi
Sapkowski's The Witcher - Vilgefortz
Morgan Land Fit for Heroes - the Dwenda
Lawrence - various, eg the Necromancers

Game of Thrones is actually a bit unusual in not having magic users as the ultimate power.

[Kyutaru]

Game of Thrones is actually a bit unusual in not having magic users as the ultimate power.
Why go to school for something you can order your lackey to do?

Cersei - Uses dragon fire, necromancy
Daenerys - Uses dragons, fire immune
Stannis - Uses red priestess, shadows
Ellaria - Uses sand snakes magic
Snow - Uses priest for resurrect

Coupled with all the people wielding magic swords, Game of Thrones is full of intelligent people exploiting magic users instead of letting them run the place. That's exactly how it should be in a D&D world. If you're an uber wizard capable of laying waste to armies for a few spell slots per day then you are going to be hunted or controlled. If you end up trying to take over the world with your army of undead (The Night King) then the world fights back.

Wizards just don't have a chance. It's D&D that is unusual for allowing them to run everything.

[Eldariel]

Coupled with all the people wielding magic swords, Game of Thrones is full of intelligent people exploiting magic users instead of letting them run the place. That's exactly how it should be in a D&D world. If you're an uber wizard capable of laying waste to armies for a few spell slots per day then you are going to be hunted or controlled. If you end up trying to take over the world with your army of undead (The Night King) then the world fights back.

Wizards just don't have a chance. It's D&D that is unusual for allowing them to run everything.

Red priestess you could easily argue the other way around. That's the same in general; the mage doesn't actually need to come to the fore but it's enough that your dominated puppet king or whatever does the thing for you. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that e.g. Merlin basically did all the important decisions while leaving the menial **** to Arthur. It's not that a mage couldn't rule, it's that mages generally don't care about such things as having power is just of no real value; mages get what they want and let morons do the rest. Ruling the world is really way more trouble than it's worth and magi are generally intelligent enough to get that.

[Dienekes]

Why go to school for something you can order your lackey to do?

Cersei - Uses dragon fire, necromancy
Daenerys - Uses dragons, fire immune
Stannis - Uses red priestess, shadows
Ellaria - Uses sand snakes magic
Snow - Uses priest for resurrect

Coupled with all the people wielding magic swords, Game of Thrones is full of intelligent people exploiting magic users instead of letting them run the place. That's exactly how it should be in a D&D world. If you're an uber wizard capable of laying waste to armies for a few spell slots per day then you are going to be hunted or controlled. If you end up trying to take over the world with your army of undead (The Night King) then the world fights back.

Wizards just don't have a chance. It's D&D that is unusual for allowing them to run everything.

This assumes the wizard with its maxed Int is dumb enough to just try to be aggressive and rule in the most obvious and destructive way while allowing no reprieve for those who give up.

To go with ASOIAF, magic users very much did rule for a very long time. There are legends of Sorcerer kings and necromancers and towers made from impossible stone and fire mages that became so powerful they started an empire and a religion.

But then magic died. The Valyrians met their doom. And the world fell back on the more typical means of power and control: physical domination. Which is where we see the rulers who can either fight enough to inspire armies, charismatic enough to gather armies, or rich enough to pay for armies take control.

But now that magic is returning, we do see mages start making their bid to control things. Doran Martell is using magic to communicate across distances in dreams to organize his plots. The Undying tried their hand at gaining power through illusions (though they were admittedly defeated), the old magic armies of the North are gathering their zombie horde to invade, the Three-Eyed Raven has been doing some shady crap behind the scenes to make the world dance to his tune, red mages have been whispering in the ear of every powerful leader they can find to get them to follow their prophecy, and most terrifying of all a mad magic pirate has taken over a warlike island and is using them to create a giant sacrifice to reach- something. Godhood maybe.

But yeah. Power leads to domination. And there are few things as blatantly powerful as D&D magic. Having a mageocracy in your D&D setting would make complete sense. If that’s the way you want to go.

[Lupine]

Many others have talked about limiting the power of magic (saves against possession, making a HP cost, having magic sometimes fail, etc) personally, I think the solution on the magic side is to make spell slots recovered be a variable number, so every spell cast leaves the question “when will I get this back?”

However, don’t forget the martial side of low fantasy. Equipment breaks or wears down. Personally, I think most “wear and tear” systems are too complex to be fun (or at least, non painful) to most players. One system I saw was making critical misses damage weapons and critical hits damage armor.
Depending on the group this could simply that your equipment enters a new “damaged” state which doesn’t do anything until it gets damaged again, And becomes “disfigured,” which will impose some pentalty: weapons are less likely to hit, and armor is no longer as protective. If damaged again, the equipment becomes “destroyed” and thereby unusable. Takes a gold and a day to have the equipment repaired by a smith.

The other, more complex, way is to have each critical hit reduce the to-hit or damage roll of a weapon by one, likewise, armor would reduce AC by one, down to 10+ac, after which, it provides no protection. Then, players must spend a gold to repair their equipment.

You might ask, “why wouldn’t people just buy a new sword?” The answer is that they absolutely can, but they won’t, if it’s a magic weapon, (no, they’re not immune to this) or if they have a reason not to. For my reason, I use the Armorer’s Handbook (3-rd party book) to let them buy upgrades for their (non magical) weapons. When they’ve sunk hundreds of gold into a weapon, you’ll find players are resistant to giving those weapons up (sidenote, the armor’s handbook gives the ability to create +1 swords for 300 gold. Thus, I do not count +X swords as magical)

[Luccan]

To the people saying 5e specifically can't be low magic, why do you think that? What exactly does it do or not do that prevents you from running low magic?

[Waazraath]

To the people saying 5e specifically can't be low magic, why do you think that? What exactly does it do or not do that prevents you from running low magic?

Good question, I don't really see it that hard. You can play perfectly fine with a fighter, monk, barbarian and rogue, and a DM can easily create a campaign without any or with hardly monsters that use spells or magic from level 1-20.

[Democratus]

I'd also throw in a recommendation for Adventures in Middle Earth.

Another system I like is "Low Fantasy Gaming" which is an excellent mod of 5th Edition.

[Man_Over_Game]

How would you go about running a grimdark, low-magic game in 5e? I'm looking for ways to limit or restrict magic down so it isn't the end all solution to problems, and make wizard/sorcerer type caster more rare.

In addition I'm looking to keep the overall power level lower so everything, even goblins, are a real threat.

Two things:

1: Cut down on resource regeneration. This can be done with just a well-thought decision on how long you want your Short and Long Rests to need. I'd recommend 6 and 32 hours.

2: Make high-level casting more difficult. You could use something like my Channeling homebrew, which basically as:
When you cast a spell of a Casting Time of 1 Action or a Bonus Action, that spell, and the spell slot is not smaller than your Proficiency, that spell is first Readied. You may release this spell just before your next turn starts with your Reaction.
This has a lot of benefits, like having your martials protect your casters, telegraphing bigger spells, etc. There're some other rules included to make it so that casters aren't entirely dead in the water when risking a high level slot, but the above is the core that the rest is built around.

[Tvtyrant]

How would you go about running a grimdark, low-magic game in 5e? I'm looking for ways to limit or restrict magic down so it isn't the end all solution to problems, and make wizard/sorcerer type caster more rare.
l
In addition I'm looking to keep the overall power level lower so everything, even goblins, are a real threat.

Get rid of casters and all spells except rituals and cantrips. Subclasses that got casting now get rituals and cantrips, making them the Gandalf of the group.

Short rest is overnight, long rest requires a safe place (think Beorn's house in the Hobbit or staying in a keep/castle.)

Pick whatever creature you want to be the world threat, cap level so they remain that forever. Like an Adult Red Dragon is CR 17, party might be capped at 15 if Smaug is the chiefest calamity of the age. Or 10 if Smaug requires organizing an army to kill instead of just smart tactics. Or level 5 if Hill Giants should be a threat 1v1 vs the party, etc.

[Kyutaru]

Good question, I don't really see it that hard. You can play perfectly fine with a fighter, monk, barbarian and rogue, and a DM can easily create a campaign without any or with hardly monsters that use spells or magic from level 1-20.
Especially seeing how people have said 5e was balanced around your starting equipment and assumes you have no magical items or upgrades. You can do 1-20 without ever touching a +1 sword.

[KorvinStarmast]

Abercrombie's First Law - well, no spoilers for those who haven't read the first series
Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards - the Bondsmagi
Sapkowski's The Witcher - Vilgefortz
Morgan Land Fit for Heroes - the Dwenda
Lawrence - various, eg the Necromancers
Katherine Kurtz / Deryni. :smallwink:

For the OP:
(a) Revert to original Vancian casting: spell preparation is not just slots, but the actual spells. Once you burn it, the spel is gone. (The physical analogue I like to use is "charge a capacitor" when you prepare a spell).
Wizards and Clerics both have to follow this rule. I will say that this does make playing full casters quite a bit tougher on the player.

I'd suggest that cantrips can only be cast "as many times as you have Spell Casting Stat Bonus" per short rest. You want low magic, there's a way to make even cantrips be a resource choice. The other choice is to tie it to "as often as you have proficiency bonus per short rest" but that makes low level quite a bit more difficult for spell caster PCs. Or, proficiency bonus + 1/2 level round up per short rest ... anyway, it's an idea to make them a resource as well.

(b) Remove sorcerers and bards as full casters. In fact, I'd remove both of these classes entirely except for Wild Magic Sorcerers if you roll for a surge with every casting of a spell. Magic is dangerous and unpredictable.

Dear bards: If people want to persuade and perform, there are backgrounds and feats.

(c) Hard rule: no magic item can be purchased. The only magic items that exist are those that you place, or, if you are OK with this, roll up randomly in a hoard. Caveat: whether or not you include healing potions on that is another story. Our first DM in 5e did not have healing pots easy to buy. (Even though they are on the PHB equipment list)

(d) Warlocks: this one's tough in the keep or don't keep decision.
Make them an Int Caster, otherwise keep as written.
Pacts of Blade, Fiend, Arch Fey only.
No multiclass for locks; the Patron wants their servant / protoge to be faithful to their pact.

(e) Druids: might be worth restricting this to "Land Circle" but I'd need to play test that thought. You'd be as well off to consider banning Druids and relying on Rangers for Nature spells.

(f) Nature Domain clerics lose heavy armor proficiency, and medium armor proficiency, but gain wild shape in a limited form. Would need to play test this as well.

(g) Artificers: nope.

[Jamesps]

There are currently 4 classes that can opt not to use spells in DnD:

Rogue, Barbarian, Monk, and Fighter. If you use the UA you can also use the Spell-less ranger to make it 5.

That's not a lot of options for players, but you can take some of the sting out of that by adding multitudes of sub classes to help players distinguish themselves within the classes available. If you mingle the 5 non-caster classes with all the non-caster subclasses available, and throw in interesting backgrounds (maybe even design your games so that background features are uses regularly instead of once in a blue moon) you should have some decent character customization options.

Then take all the boring magic items and make them non-magic items. Low tier healing potions are just herbal remedies. A +1 sword is just made from fine dwarven steel. Potion of speed is literal Speed, like the drug. Try and hand out mostly these non-magic magic items as treasure, while using the true magical items as special plot devices only.

Now you've got the players in a very low magic system (some of their abilities are still magical, even if they're not spells), the next step is just to police yourself. Resist the temptation to throw the players against weird magical beasts or spell casters at every opportunity. Don't fret about omitting to this restriction. like poetry, if you accept certain restrictions in your adventure design it might actually spur on more creativity rather than less. Force you to think of new ways to use monsters and challenges people in a high-fantasy setting would dismiss as dull. Further, the fact that your players won't be able to just fly over challenges, or teleport around them, will open up all sorts of non-magical options for an adventure that would have been handwaved with a minor resource expenditure by a standard adventuring party.

[Kyutaru]

There are currently 4 classes that can opt not to use spells in DnD:

Rogue, Barbarian, Monk, and Fighter. If you use the UA you can also use the Spell-less ranger to make it 5.

That's not a lot of options for players, but you can take some of the sting out of that by adding multitudes of sub classes to help players distinguish themselves within the classes available.
Seems like plenty of options really. It's similar to what you might find in a tactical squad. The skill monkey, the frontline tank, the CQB recon, the heavy weapons expert, and the sniper.

[Maan]

To the people saying 5e specifically can't be low magic, why do you think that? What exactly does it do or not do that prevents you from running low magic?

Out of curiosity, a few weeks ago I counted them and D&D 5e has some 90 possibile subclasses. Of these, 73 use magic in some way. And this is just an example: the whole system is engineered to work with that kind of pervasive magic. It even says so on the tin: "The world is magical" (DMG, 9).

It's not that you can't run D&D as a low magic setting; but why use this system if you are going to throw most of it out of the window? There are other rpg systems better suited for those kind of games.
I just think it's not worth the effort, that's all.

[Man_Over_Game]

Seems like plenty of options really. It's similar to what you might find in a tactical squad. The skill monkey, the frontline tank, the CQB recon, the heavy weapons expert, and the sniper.


Out of curiosity, a few weeks ago I counted them and D&D 5e has some 90 possibile subclasses. Of these, 73 use magic in some way. And this is just an example: the whole system is engineered to work with that kind of pervasive magic. It even says so on the tin: "The world is magical" (DMG, 9).

It's not that you can't run D&D as a low magic setting; but why use this system if you are going to throw most of it out of the window? There are other rpg systems better suited for those kind of games.
I just think it's not worth the effort, that's all.

Well put. Another is the lack of interaction with just martial players. There are few battlefield effects they can use, few conditions, few combo effects, few buffs, etc. The game is designed around the Attack Action being as simple and basic as possible, yet all of the non-magical builds revolve around using that singular mechanic.

It's frustrating, but most forms of interaction usually involve protecting, interrupting, or adapting towards casters. Unless spamming Grapple and Shove attacks is enough for a team to share.

[jjordan]

The same way Warhammer 40k does it. Magic causes demons to try to invade your brain and force you to kill all your friends. Naturally this means people are absolutely terrified of magic and demons. Lots of wizards were slaughtered and only a few officially sanctioned and fervently trained ones are permitted to use magic. But even those wizards risk "accidentally" summoning demons or giving in to the Dark Side. Heretics are burned.

Magic stops being the be-all end-all when it's a last resort and not being used in the place of laziness. Is there a non-magical way to solve the problem that won't risk a demonic incursion taking over the planet? Let's go with that option instead.I like this a lot.

... how low magic are we talking here?

Generally grim dark just adds a cost to magic rather than abolishing it. Same thing with violence or any kind of intentional action; there's a cost. You might even succeed in your goals, save the world... but at what cost? Nothing's for free when dealing with grim dark.

So what kind of cost would be interesting?


Something like a Countdown Timer on characters; an expectation that they are finite. Twenty points, let's say. Casting spells drains from those longevity points at a rate equal to the spell being cast. At zero... something happens. The character goes mad, catatonic, or just straight up strokes out under the pressures of spellcasting.

Adjust the point total for how long you'd like your characters to last. Make it a hundred points if you want a little while longer; the knowledge that there's a countdown at all is enough to set the tone. If you want to loosen it up, keep the point total small but make it recoverable in some fashion... like going to a sacred hot springs to cleanse the taint of magic from them.

Spitballing.I like this even more.