Bard/ Dread witch any use for psionic?

[Hiro Quester]

Im playing a gnome Bard 8 /Dread Witch 3. High CHA/CON, 12-13 in other stats. Bardic abilities with gnome bard ACFs. Inspire defiance, phantasmal song. Major perform skill is oratory.

Doesn't usually melee. Mostly manipulative spells that are illusions, fear, and enchantments, and some BFC, dispel magic. (Dread Witch keeps fear viable at high levels.)

Our game is mostly core, with other books/abilities added on a case-by use basis. (Has allowed Races of the Wild, Heroes of Horror, so far.)

My character just learned a spell through a psionic ability used by a high-level patron demigod character.

DM tells me my character now has an intuitive understanding of psionics. With investment of a few points in knowledge (psionics) he could learn psionic abilities. To limit their power, mostly abilities that interrupt others.

DM and I will talk in the next few days about how that might work.

I have never used psionics in a game before. I'm a psionic newbie. I'd appreciate advice or suggestions for psionic classes or abilities that might augment my character's abilities, that I could research and talk to the DM about.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Depends on exactly what your DM means by "psionics."

If he means the psionic feats and powers in the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook (XPH), powers are very similar to spells, and psionic feats tend to be stronger than normal feats, but they're limited by your psionic focus. Psionic focus, if you're not familiar, is a state which can be entered by a character with power points or psi-like abilities. You make a DC 20 Concentration check to become focused and can expend your focus at any time as a free action, typically to either activate a feat or to "Take 15" on a Concentration check (which is the only native use psionic focus has). Many psionic feats (that can only be taken by characters with the [Psionic] subtype -- that is, either have power points or psi-like abilities) either require you to expend your focus or already be holding a focus to receive their benefits.

You use power points (basically video game MP) from a single power point pool instead of spell slots, and (pay attention on this one) you're limited to spending a maximum number of power points up to your manifester level (which is usually, but not always, equal to your manifesting class level, much like a cleric, druid, or wizard has a caster level). Manifester levels don't stack unless they say they do; for instance, a psion 5 / psychic warrior 1 has two manifester levels, and these work just like caster levels do. The one main difference is that power points pool together, unlike spell slots. You add ALL sources of power points together, and they can be used on any ability you have that uses power points.

Most psionic powers have augments you can spend more power points on (above and beyond the normal stated effects); energy ray, for instance, has an augment that deals an additional die of damage for every additional power point you spend above the original cost of 1 pp. Augmentations count against your manifester level limit for spending pp on powers (as do the additional costs incurred by metapsionic feats, which cost additional pp and your psionic focus instead of increasing the spell slot that spells have).

Manifesting powers is considered a psi-like ability, and non-class psi-like abilities are automatically manifested up to your HD unless the specific ability states otherwise.

Practically everything you need to know about psionics in on d20srd.org. Psionic focus is listed under the Concentration skill in the psionics section.

Of course, if your DM is using the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, beg him to use the 3.5 XPH, instead. Likewise, make sure you're using the default Magic/Psionics Transparency -- that is, magic spells affect psionic powers just like they were spells, and psionic powers affect spells just like they affect powers. Things tend to spiral out of control if you don't. There are a few differences in the systems, even so. For instance, powers never require material, verbal, or somatic components, and you cannot counterspell psionic powers, even with dispel magic.

But really, it depends entirely on what kinds of things your DM is giving you as to how we can help.

If you have any specific questions, give us more info and I'm sure someone here can help you to make use of it.

Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/22yab8/help_with_understanding_35_psionics/

[Hiro Quester]

I'm supposing that with a CHA-focussed character I'm looking at wilder.

And maybe cerebromancer that progresses both psionic and spellcasting abilities?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Your best bet is for the DM to give you some X/day psi-like abilities that have a manifester level equal to your HD. Just treat them like spell-like abilities, except they augment up to your HD. For instance, energy ray would deal 1d6 energy damage per HD you have (+1 per ML for fire or cold, or -1 per ML for sonic). Taking psionic levels would mess up your character's progression at this point, and psionic feats could get messy if you're forced to take them when you already have a build in mind.

Taking manifesting class levels would be like tacking druid levels onto your build, including a very low manifester/caster level. I wouldn't bother, since you have your own thing going already.

Just ask for some psi-like abilities instead of multiclassing, since it wouldn't do much for you.

[edit] Maybe the phrenic template (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) but with different psi-likes of the same (or lower) levels?

Focus on taking action economy boosters like synchronicity and anticipatory strike (from Complete Psionic), as well as hustle and temporal acceleration (from the XPH). Use them to cast spells to futz with enemy targeting, and direct damage to make spells sizzle.

[Hiro Quester]

Your best bet is for the DM to give you some X/day psi-like abilities that have a manifester level equal to your HD.

That is a pretty good idea. Are there abilities like that useful for a bard/manipulator?

Fortunately I have been keeping concentration close-to maximized. And I have a good CON to power it.

DM suggested abilities that interpret others might be ones he is amenable to. Immediate actions and such.

I think we're working from at least the SRD's version of psionics, BTW.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That is a pretty good idea. Are there abilities like that useful for a bard/manipulator?

Fortunately I have been keeping concentration close-to maximized. And I have a good CON to power it.

DM suggested abilities that interpret others might be ones he is amenable to. Immediate actions and such.

I think we're working from at least the SRD's version of psionics, BTW.As I said, hustle (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm) and temporal acceleration (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/temporalAcceleration.htm#) from the SRD, for sure. Synchronicity and anticipatory strike if you can get them. A few damaging things to try to fizzle spellcasting via Concentration checks, if you can. Something other than Will save-based damage, so no mind thrust, as casters will practically always make their saves, and anything with low Will saves will likely have too many HP to bother with.

The rest should probably be lower level status effects and buffs that are better than what you'd get as a caster, or aren't on your regular list. Psionic grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/greasePsionic.htm), entangling ectoplasm (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/entanglingEctoplasm.htm), energy stun (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyStun.htm#), energy push (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyPush.htm#), ectoplasmic shambler (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ectoplasmicShambler.htm), ego whip (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm), inertial armor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inertialArmor.htm), vigor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm), share pain (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm), and forced share pain (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePainForced.htm). Note that vigor + (forced) share pain combo very, very well.

[edit] Wall of ectoplasm (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/wallofEctoplasm.htm) and defensive precognition (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognitionDefensive.htm) would also be good picks for most builds, and time hop (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) is always a good time.

[Hiro Quester]

Thanks, Max. These are all good options (I was already saving over time hop and energy push as debut or interrupt effects.

I have some good ideas to talk about with the DM. thanks!

But keep 'em coming of others have suggestions.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Thanks, Max. These are all good options (I was already saving over time hop and energy push as debut or interrupt effects.

I have some good ideas to talk about with the DM. thanks!

But keep 'em coming of others have suggestions.You're welcome!

If you want interrupts, you'll need synchronicity and anticipatory strike. There aren't many immediate action powers in the XPH, even though that's where they (and swift actions) originally originated. Those powers allow you to interrupt others' actions with your own by fiddling with your ability to take actions between turns.

If you were building a character from first principles instead of adding psionics onto a pre-existing character, I'd suggest and [psionic] feats that would push the limits on what you can do significantly harder, but those generally work with powers you manifest instead of racial-type psi-likes, but I explained why you wouldn't want to take manifesting class levels above.

However, the phrenic template that I suggested (with psi-like abilities swapped out for others, as should have been an option from the beginning, since I doubt every psionic creature has all the same abilities as every other) seems just like what the DM ordered, here. Yeah, you have to eat the LA (best bought off via LA buyoff), but it gives you psionic abilities to augment your current ones without screwing you over completely on what you've already got. Yeah, phrenic is an inherited template, but there's nothing saying that your demigod patron couldn't have awakened those latent abilities in you through whatever s/he did to you.

[edit] Consider taking the Craft Contingent Spell feat and ask the DM to allow it to affect your psi-like abilities, then start crafting contingent [I]energy push, psionic grease, entangling ectoplasm, etc, as well as spells that can interrupt the targeting and casting of other spells, like wall of X and silent image to block line of sight and (possibly) line of effect. Make sure to cast wall spells around enemies (or at least between them and you) and illusion spells well away from them but between them and you (to avoid giving them a saving throw against it).