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sandmote
2020-08-30, 07:22 PM
This page on the homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Goxl1mFoX)

This was initially more of a control subclass, then I didn't like the way it was coming out, so I shifted to some AoE at 11th level.

I'm hoping the AC boost isn't too strong, especially given you're giving something up for it. On the same issue, you don't get extra hit points, and I'm unsure about that.

The thematic idea for the 11th level feature is punching straight through the enemy line.


Iron Legs
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level you learn to move yourself in a manner that blocks attacks. As a bonus action, you can give up your unarmored movement to gain a +2 bonus to your AC. You must be able to benefit from your unarmored movement feature when you do so, and lose the bonus if you would lose your unarmored movement. You can give up this bonus up to regain your unarmored movement as a bonus action.

The increase to your AC increases to +3 at 10th level, and to +4 at 18th level.

Root the Mountain
At 3rd level, moving you against your will becomes incredibly difficult for anyone to achieve. When a creature attempts to shove you you can choose to count as one size larger for the attempt, and you have advantage on saving throws against being forcibly moved. If an effect would forcibly move you, you can use your reaction to halve the distance moved, rounded down to the nearest 5 feet (minimum of 0 feet moved). Whenever you would be forcibly moved, you can use your reaction to reduce the movement by an amount equal to your unarmored movement bonus. You do not need to be currently benefiting from your unarmored movement to use this feature.

Spirit of Stone
Starting at 6th level, you can infuse yourself and your allies with the strength of stone. As a bonus action, you can spend up to 3 ki points. For each ki point you spend, one creature of your choice within 30 feet of you gains 5 temporary hit points, temporary hit points equal to 5 + your martial arts die, which last 1 hour.

From 11th level, each creature instead gains 8 temporary hit points. From 17th level, each creature instead gains 11 temporary hit points.

Rockslide Charge
The mountain is difficult to move, but once it does nothing can stand in its path. Starting at 11th level, you can unleash a powerful charge with the power of an avalanche. As an action, you can unleash yourself in a line up to 50 feet long and 15 feet wide in a direction you choose. As part of this action, you move to the far end of the line. You do not take attacks of opportunity during this movement, and can pass through the space of creatures. Each creature in the line must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save a creature takes 5d6 bludgeoning damage and is pushed back 30 feet by the blow. On a success the creature takes half as much damage and is pushed 15 feet. The damage counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Once you have used this feature, you can't use it again until you have finished a short or long rest.

Shatter Advance
From 17th level, You can restrict up your enemies, halting their movement with fissures and crags on the ground, and turning the air so thin that flying creatures struggle to stay aloft or take off. As an action on your turn, you can spend 5 ki points and choose a point within 120 feet. Each creature within 20 feet of that point must make a strength saving throw against your ki save DC or become restrained until the end of your next turn.

For 1 minute after using this ability, you may take a bonus action on your turn to repeat this effect against all creatures restrained by it, without needing to expend any ki.

Spirit of Adamantine
By 17th level, your spirit of stone feature turns the recipients so hard it is harmful to even strike them. If a creature hits you or an ally with a melee attack while you have hit points granted by your spirit of stone feature, the creature takes bludgeoning damage equal to your marital arts die. The damage counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Garfunion
2020-08-31, 12:07 PM
First, what is the story/lore surrounding this archetype?

To me there’s a lot going on with this archetype that is both messy, overpowered, and under powered(meaningless).

**Iron Legs**
First of all the monk has a core feature called patient defense that gives them ability to dodge as a bonus action. If I’m going to spend my bonus action on defense I’d rather get a +5 than a +2, and I would keep my fast movement. If Iron Legs feature stacks with patient defense, it becomes to powerful.

**Root the Mountain**
I would copy the monk’s slow fall feature when it comes to forced movement to keep it simple. The advantage to saving throw/ability checks is to powerful.

**Spirit of Stone**
This feature is too costly and too weak. I think it should be a 3rd level feature that scales off of monk level, cost one Ki for each creature it affects.

**Rockslide Charge**
This is also a messy feature. The push effect is to large and if a creature saves they should not be pushed. The travel distance should probably only be 60ft and 10ft wide.

**Shatter Advance**
This feature is pretty lackluster for a level 17 ability.


I suggest you look at some of the four elements monk’s disciplines and other “earth” element spells. To help you design this archetype.

Edit:
Actually wouldn’t this archetype be more suited for a barbarian?

sandmote
2020-09-01, 06:44 PM
First, what is the story/lore surrounding this archetype?

To me there’s a lot going on with this archetype that is both messy, overpowered, and under powered(meaningless). The original concept was a "controller monk." The initial draft turned out more "confederate general," so I mixed in some features from the Mountain Devotee paragon path from 4e to get rid of that.


**Iron Legs**
First of all the monk has a core feature called patient defense that gives them ability to dodge as a bonus action. If I’m going to spend my bonus action on defense I’d rather get a +5 than a +2, and I would keep my fast movement. If Iron Legs feature stacks with patient defense, it becomes to powerful. This was meant to make a high AC meat shield as opposed to one with high HP, which works best with the monk given their relatively high saves. Prevents them from being crippled by spellcasters or spell like abilities.

Would bonus HP per level work better?


**Root the Mountain**
I would copy the monk’s slow fall feature when it comes to forced movement to keep it simple. The advantage to saving throw/ability checks is to powerful. I haven't seen forced movement come up that often, so I'm not clear how +3.3 on such rolls is too powerful for these.

Similarly, if it reduces movement in the same manner as slow fall (ie 5 ft per level) you'd quickly end up making it impossible to move the monk entirely, so I'm not clear how that would solve the feature being too powerful.

At 3rd level, your reducing by 15 feet with your suggestion, or half as written.
By 6th level, you're reducing by 30 feet with your suggestion, or half as written.
By 9th level, you're reducing by 45 feet with your suggestion, or half as written.

I'm not sue how many features reduce by 50 feet.


**Spirit of Stone**
This feature is too costly and too weak. I think it should be a 3rd level feature that scales off of monk level, cost one Ki for each creature it affects. If I reduce Iron Legs to bonus hit points this makes sense. Any suggestions of what to add at 6th instead? Would shatter advance fit here better?


**Rockslide Charge**
This is also a messy feature. The push effect is to large and if a creature saves they should not be pushed. The travel distance should probably only be 60ft and 10ft wide. Assuming a medium monk their reach is 15 ft across. Should I change it to match their reach?

The other issue is that 11th level is the capstone, so the feature needs to be comparatively powerful, so I figured forced movement that can't be negated would be a good option.


I suggest you look at some of the four elements monk’s disciplines and other “earth” element spells. To help you design this archetype.

Edit:
Actually wouldn’t this archetype be more suited for a barbarian? Best things I can come up with are creating rough terrain and perhaps replicating the Move Earth spell.

I suppose the existing fluff could fit a barbarian better, but I've struggled to come up with a concept for a meat shield/controller that works better on a monk than on a fighter, barbarian, or druid.

TyGuy
2020-09-02, 12:52 AM
Iron legs is something that can be toggled and kept indefinitely or it requires a bonus action each turn? I'm thinking the former based on the wording.

Yakk
2020-09-02, 08:51 AM
This page on the homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Goxl1mFoX)

This was initially more of a control subclass, then I didn't like the way it was coming out, so I shifted to some AoE at 11th level.

I'm hoping the AC boost isn't too strong, especially given you're giving something up for it. On the same issue, you don't get extra hit points, and I'm unsure about that.

The thematic idea for the 11th level feature is punching straight through the enemy line.


Iron Legs
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level you learn to move yourself in a manner that blocks attacks. As a bonus action, you can give up your unarmored movement to gain a +2 bonus to your AC. You must be able to benefit from your unarmored movement feature when you do so, and you can give up this bonus up to regain your unarmored movement as a bonus action.

The increase to your AC increases to +3 at 10th level, and to +4 at 18th level.

Scaling stacking AC is dangerous.

There is an exploit (use ability, then put on armor).

I'd make this a reaction that makes your movement until the end of your next turn 0. That is a real, solid cost.

Temporary HP instead of AC also fits this better. Or resistance.


Root the Mountain
If you do not wish to be moved, this becomes incredibly difficult for anyone to achieve. When a creature attempts to shove you you can choose to count as one size larger for the attempt, and you have advantage on saving throws against being forcibly moved. If an effect would forcibly move you, you can use your reaction to halve the distance moved, rounded down to the nearest 5 feet (minimum of 0 feet moved).

Halve rounded down to nearest 5 feet is ugly.

This is full of complex mechanics for something really simple.

Forced movement is niche enough. "You reduce forced movement by 5' for every 2 monk levels".

Also, wording; you always mention the level.


Spirit of Stone
Starting at 6th level, you can infuse your allies with the strength of stone. As a bonus action, you can spend up to 3 ki points. For each ki point you spend, one creature of your choice within 30 feet of you gains 5 temporary hit points, which last 1 hour.

From 11th level, each creature instead gains 8 temporary hit points. From 17th level, each creature instead gains 11 temporary hit points.
This is pre-buffing bait. It seems more fun if it wasn't pre-buffing bait.

How about 1 minute duration, and roll your martial arts die per Ki?

Also, as worded, this works on yourself. You are a creature within 30 feet.

Rockslide Charge
The mountain is difficult to move, but once it does nothing can stand in its path. Starting at 11th level, you can unleash a powerful charge with the power of an avalanche. As an action, you can unleash yourself in a line up to 50 feet long and 15 feet wide in a direction you choose. As part of this action, you move to the far end of the line. You do not take attacks of opportunity during this movement, and can pass through the space of creatures. Each creature in the line must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save a creature takes 5d6 bludgeoning damage and is pushed back 30 feet by the blow. On a success the creature takes half as much damage and is pushed 15 feet. The damage counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Once you have used this feature, you can't use it again until you have finished a short or long rest.
As written, you can use this when you have 0 movement speed.

Shatter Advance
From 17th level, You can tie up your enemies, haling their movement with fissures and crags. As an action on your turn, you can spend 5 ki points and choose a point within 120 feet. Each creature within 20 feet of that point must make a strength saving throw against your ki save DC or become restrained until the end of your next turn.

For 1 minute after using this ability, you may take a bonus action on your turn to repeat this effect against all creatures restrained by it, without needing to expend any ki.
This works on flying creatures as written.

sandmote
2020-09-02, 05:58 PM
Iron legs is something that can be toggled and kept indefinitely or it requires a bonus action each turn? I'm thinking the former based on the wording. The former is intended, but as Yakk noted the wording is messed up. It is supposed to require the same restrictions as a monk's unarmored movement.


Scaling stacking AC is dangerous.

There is an exploit (use ability, then put on armor).

I'd make this a reaction that makes your movement until the end of your next turn 0. That is a real, solid cost.

Temporary HP instead of AC also fits this better. Or resistance. Thanks for catching the exploit. This is intended only to stack with unarmored defense.

Using a reaction is a problem, because that prevents you from making attacks of opportunity the same turn. Which is kind of important for a meatshield.


Halve rounded down to nearest 5 feet is ugly.

This is full of complex mechanics for something really simple.

Forced movement is niche enough. "You reduce forced movement by 5' for every 2 monk levels".

Also, wording; you always mention the level. Okay, if multiple people suggest this I guess it isn't as broken as I expect. However, I'll limit it to match the unarmored movement bonus.


This is pre-buffing bait. It seems more fun if it wasn't pre-buffing bait.

How about 1 minute duration, and roll your martial arts die per Ki?

Also, as worded, this works on yourself. You are a creature within 30 feet. You are intended to be a valid target. I'm not clear what the rest of this means. Martial arts die instead of a flat bonus sounds good. 1 minute duration feels way too weak for something you want up beforehand and then to reapply in an emergency.

Perhaps I could make it work similarly to armor of agathys at 17th level, to buff it a bit more at high levels?


As written, you can use this when you have 0 movement speed.

This works on flying creatures as written. The former is intentional, the later is a holdover from the first draft. Would adding in something like "and the air becomes thin, like that of the highest peaks," work?

Yakk
2020-09-03, 08:59 AM
1 minute duration feels way too weak for something you want up beforehand and then to reapply in an emergency.
It is ok for you to want something and not get it.

The short duration is intended to prevent the "ok, I burn 9 Ki and everyone now has X temporary HP" between every fight.

That is boring bookkeeping, at least to me.

If you want it to target yourself unambiguously, change this "Starting at 6th level, you can infuse your allies with the strength of stone" to say "yourself and your allies".


Perhaps I could make it work similarly to armor of agathys at 17th level, to buff it a bit more at high levels?
AoA is a self buff, basically a class feature. The same on the entire party with a long duration is a very different.

sandmote
2020-09-04, 07:31 PM
It is ok for you to want something and not get it.

The short duration is intended to prevent the "ok, I burn 9 Ki and everyone now has X temporary HP" between every fight.

That is boring bookkeeping, at least to me. Not sure how many tables have 9 people, but you would be giving up most of your ki for this. I see neither any incentive to say that, nor do I see any reason to forcibly prevent it. Without either of these I would rather leave the cost benefit analysis up to the player and/or the scenario.


AoA is a self buff, basically a class feature. The same on the entire party with a long duration is a very different. The two already have the same duration.

Further, AoA grants 45 THP and deal 45 damage on a hit starting at 9th level. At 17th this feature would grant an average of 11.5 to each recipient (max of 15), and deals 1d10 when it deals damage.

I think it is different enough to help this subclass keep up; I'll add it.