Best uses for True Believer feat

[Quertus]

Like it says on the tin. Other than just being flavorful, the True Believer feat gives you access to (abilities of) items that would be unavailable otherwise (EDIT: without sacrificing Cleric spell slots). What all items have been made, and which is the "best" option (EDIT: read "best deity with which to utilize True Believer") from an optimization standpoint?

I'm actually asking because I noticed a hole in my world-building, that my custom deities haven't really made any signature items for mortals with this particular feat. And I wanted to set myself an upper bar of "not stronger than…”, but then I drew a blank. Although it begs the question, do all published deities make use of this feat to grant boons to their followers?

[tyckspoon]

Chain of Obeisance can cast Dominate Monster on somebody with a specific requirement (you have to grapple and pin them.) Tiamat's rod has several spell-like abilities, some of which are fairly high level (although not especially powerful choices); it also sets a precedence for level-scaling the abilities, so you're not locked into 'can't be more powerful than X' - if it's only appropriate for a Level Y character, then you can have it require a Level Z spell slot or amount of HD to access. Cuthbert's mace is an intelligent item that gets Bane: Everybody That Hits You. It also attempts to Intimidate your enemies automatically, which is kind of hilarious. Raptor Arrows get Bane: Whatever You're Shooting.

So the general Relic power level is around a +2/+3 value weapon enhancment, or can go up to a higher-level spell like ability with specific usage limitations.

[Troacctid]

These are the ones I have on my spreadsheet:

Axe of Ancestral Virtue
Boots of the Unending Journey
Bow of the Wintermoon
Censer of the Last Breath
Cornucopia of the Needful
Dawnstar
Dragonscale Cloak
Ehlonna's Seed Pouch
Enveloping Pit
Helm of the Purple Plume
Millennial Chainmail
Raptor Arrow
Ruby Blade
Scrolls of Uncertain Providence
Sword of Virtue Beyond Reproach
Tabard of the Great Crusade
Tome of Ancient Lore
Tome of the Stilled Tongue
Vestments of Ebonsilk

[tiercel]

It’s also worth remembering the Pious Templar PrC (Complete Divine) requires True Believer and is a basic “be like a paladin of any alignment but without a specific alignment Code of Conduct or even need to be Cha-heavy so much” sort of role for any god.

It’s not an item, of course, but it’s another reason to take, and role for, True Believer.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

There’s also Armor of the Fallen Leaves, Shield of the Resolute and Shield of the Severed Hand in MIC. Neither of the shields is noteworthy, the armor is a +1 wild breastplate that also grants a 1/day gaseous form.

[the_tick_rules]

Boots of the unending journey is pretty sweet. Faster, no trail, immunity to fatigue and exhaustion is a sweet benefit package.

Dawnstar honestly kind of confuses me. Brilliant energy is an effective property but since pelor's arch nemesis is the undead having a weapon that would be useless against them is odd to me.

Millenial Chainmail is also nice. It's basically celestial armor (which is already awesome) plus fast healing.

Bow of the wintermoon is also a nice weapon. Plus since they are both for elf god true believer gets you access to both. I guess elves get all the good relics. so unless you can get true believe for multiple gods (which sounds wrong) corelleon seems like a good deal

[Saintheart]

There's the Rod of the Recluse out of Complete Divine and the MIC, for followers of Lolth. The C.Div version is a lot more interesting since it functions as a +3 light mace (hello Lightning Mace ab/use) which does 2d6 STR damage on a melee touch attack instead of hitpoint damage. This damage is presumably doubled on a critical hit. The MIC version provides a [relic] item which was probably meant to replace it but which, by virtue of being a [relic], might be a distinct weapon. It nerfs it down to a +2 light mace and only allows you to use this STR damage power 5 times a day.

Also in MIC, the Spear of Retribution, which says if you suffer a critical hit, the next round the spear is keen, which is pretty underwhelming.

Dragon #333 has the War Widow, by which you get a +3 luck bonus on all saving throws against disease, poison, and traps. Otherwise it's a +2 anarchic warhammer. You have to get into a fight once every 10 days or the relic ceases to function until your next combat.

[Thurbane]

These are the ones I have on my spreadsheet:

Axe of Ancestral Virtue
Boots of the Unending Journey
Bow of the Wintermoon
Censer of the Last Breath
Cornucopia of the Needful
Dawnstar
Dragonscale Cloak
Ehlonna's Seed Pouch
Enveloping Pit
Helm of the Purple Plume
Millennial Chainmail
Raptor Arrow
Ruby Blade
Scrolls of Uncertain Providence
Sword of Virtue Beyond Reproach
Tabard of the Great Crusade
Tome of Ancient Lore
Tome of the Stilled Tongue
Vestments of Ebonsilk


I found these as well -


Armor of the Fallen Leaves
Belt of the Champion
Chain of Obeisance
Cudgel that Never Forgets
Dagger of Denial
Executioners Hood
Gauntlets of the Blood Lord
Gauntlets of the talon
Gem of the Glitterdepth
Hooked Hammer of the Hearthfire
Map of Unseen Lands
Morningstar of the Many
Pipes of Frenzied Revelry
Platinum Helm
Rapier of Desperate Measures
Rapier of Unerring Direction
Rod of Reversal
Rod of the Recluse
Shard of the Sun
Shield of the Severed Hand
Skewer of Gnomes
Spear of Retribution

You can use it for entry into Pious Templar.

[Troacctid]

I found these as well -
I left off the ones I didn't think were useful.


Dawnstar honestly kind of confuses me. Brilliant energy is an effective property but since pelor's arch nemesis is the undead having a weapon that would be useless against them is odd to me.
Ah, the trick is, you use it on a truenamer. Smash the weapon, deal 200 damage, then rebuild item to repair it. Rinse and repeat as necessary!

[bean illus]

Millenial Chainmail is also nice. It's basically celestial armor (which is already awesome) plus fast healing.

Bow of the wintermoon is also a nice weapon. Plus since they are both for elf god true believer gets you access to both. I guess elves get all the good relics. so unless you can get true believe for multiple gods (which sounds wrong) corelleon seems like a good deal
Sweet.

I didn't realize that. Thanks.
I guess that makes elven archers a bit more tempting. Squeeze in Seeker of the Mysty Isle ...

[Segev]

IIRC, you don't need to use the relic power to get the biggest benefit from an Enveloping Pit, which is just its sheer size for price as a storage device.

Raptor Arrows are the only ones I think are really worth a feat just to get their Relic Power.

[Troacctid]

IIRC, you don't need to use the relic power to get the biggest benefit from an Enveloping Pit, which is just its sheer size for price as a storage device.

Raptor Arrows are the only ones I think are really worth a feat just to get their Relic Power.
Ehlonna's seed pouch is also really nice. So is vestments of ebonsilk. And helm of the purple plume needs you to have an ally with an at-will fear effect, but if you do, it's continuous heroism. Millennial chainmail is possibly the cheapest source of continuous fast healing in the game. Censer of the last breath creates some pretty powerful cloud effects. Axe of ancestral virtue is an action economy win. I think there are a lot of relics that can absolutely be worth the feat.

[Telonius]

My Cleric of Olidammara has been hosting singles nights at one of her bars with help from her Pipes of Frenzied Revelry. She's built as an Eldritch Disciple, social Rogue-ish character, so the Pipes have come up a few times to help in her schemes. (Best uses are when she's playing backup to the party's Bard/Warblade).

[Quertus]

So… that list seems small. Does at least every PH deity have "2" items?


so unless you can get true believe for multiple gods (which sounds wrong) corelleon seems like a good deal

I wholeheartedly believe in what Mystra says (which isn't much - "as ye harm no art (ie, magic (items)), do as ye will"). And I wholeheartedly believe in what, eh, Wee-Jas says ("undead are people, too"?). I'm not seeing the problem here. :smalltongue:


Dawnstar honestly kind of confuses me. Brilliant energy is an effective property but since pelor's arch nemesis is the undead having a weapon that would be useless against them is odd to me.


Ah, the trick is, you use it on a truenamer. Smash the weapon, deal 200 damage, then rebuild item to repair it. Rinse and repeat as necessary!

Clearly, Troacctid('s sample character) is *not* a True Believer in Mystra :smalltongue:


IIRC, you don't need to use the relic power to get the biggest benefit from an Enveloping Pit, which is just its sheer size for price as a storage device.

Raptor Arrows are the only ones I think are really worth a feat just to get their Relic Power.

Raptor Arrows (Ehlonna?) are certainly one of the ones I remember looking at.

[DarkSoul]

The biggest reason to use Bow of the Wintermoon doesn't require the feat.

My vote would be Raptor Arrows as the best use of True Believer.

[Thurbane]

So, unless I missed anything, all of the deities with relics in the MIC get two each, and the FR relics (Dragon 333) get one each.



Gauntlets of the Talon
Bahamut


Platinum Helm
Bahamut


Rod of the Clenched Fists
Bane


Rod of Reversal
Boccob


Tome of Ancient Lore
Boccob


Bow of the Wintermoon
Corellon Larethian


Millennial Chainmail
Corellon Larethian


Ehlonna's Seed Pouch
Ehlonna


Raptor Arrow
Ehlonna


Executioners Hood
Erythnul


Morningstar of the Many
Erythnul


Boots of the Unending Journey
Fharlanghn


Rapier of Unerring Direction
Fharlanghn


Gem of the Glitterdepth
Garl Glittergold


Hooked Hammer of the Hearthfire
Garl Glittergold


Pouch of Black Essence
Gond


Shield of the Severed Hand
Gruumsh


Spear of Retribution
Gruumsh


Helm of the Purple Plume
Heironeous


Sword of Virtue Beyond Reproach
Heironeous


Chain of Obeisance
Hextor


Gauntlets of the Blood Lord
Hextor


Ribbons of the Twice Martyred
Ilmater


Ashen Staff of Inevitability
Kelemvor


Belt of the Champion
Kord


Sword of Mighty Thews
Kord


Enveloping Pit
Kurtulmak


Skewer of Gnomes
Kurtulmak


Rod of the Recluse
Lolth


Vestments of Ebonsilk
Lolth


Axe of Ancestral Virtue
Moradin


Shield of the Resolute
Moradin


Censer of the Last Breath
Nerull


Tabard of the Disembodied
Nerull


Armor of the Fallen Leaves
Obad-Hai


Staff of the Unyielding Oak
Obad-Hai


Legendmaker
Oghma


Pipes of Frenzied Revelry
Olidammara


Rapier of Desperate Measures
Olidammara


Dawnstar
Pelor


Shard of the Sun
Pelor


Amulet of Perfect Night
Shar


Cudgel that Never Forgets
St. Cuthbert


Tabard of the Great Crusade
St. Cuthbert


Ring of Firehair
Sune


The War Widow
Tempus


Chromatic Rod
Tiamat


Dragonscale Cloak
Tiamat


Trueword Buckler
Torm


Dagger of Denial
Vecna


Tome of the Stilled Tongue
Vecna


Ruby Blade
Wee Jas


Scrolls of Uncertain Providence
Wee Jas


Cornucopia of the Needful
Yondalla


Map of Unseen Lands
Yondalla

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The biggest reason to use Bow of the Wintermoon doesn't require the feat.

My vote would be Raptor Arrows as the best use of True Believer.Ditto. And the enveloping pit (the only other relic I ever use) only needs the feat to use the pit as a trap, which isn't what I use it for at all. I just need UMD to count as Evil (or actually BE Evil, or redeem it to be Good) to use it the way I want.

So raptor arrows it is.

[daremetoidareyo]

Put it on an artificer and make relics at a discount

[Troacctid]

I think the best ones overall are Boccob, Ehlonna, Heironeous, and Moradin.


So… that list seems small. Does at least every PH deity have "2" items.
That is correct, yes. All of them in MIC.

[tiercel]

At higher levels, St. Cuthbert ain’t bad.

The cudgel that never forgets is already a tasty name; the modest healing (but not taking the wielder’s action) is okay, the Bane (anything that has ever hit you with a weapon) property is pretty nice, but having a big stick that constantly talks smack to your opponents in combat you almost can’t put a price on; the fact that the smack-talk can actually have a mechanical (demoralizing) effect is kind of just bonus. (Yes, having a static Intimidation check bonus means it might not land as often as you like and especially as you go up in levels, but it happens pretty much every combat round for free!)

If you are already a high level St Cuthbert True Believer, then the tabard of the great crusade gets you DR 5/evil and heal 1/day (using someone else’s move action) for the crazy, bargain-basement CALL 1-800-ST-CUTHBERT NOW!!! price of 5500gp.